Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: tinkerman on August 21, 2013, 22:42:08 PM
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I think the topics have been pretty tame so far so let's get serious! >:(
Just saw on the news about the git who killed three people at a wedding and was jailed for life, apparently never to be released, good!
Human rights lady interviewed " its not right that the prisoner has no incentive to behave himself and it makes it hard on the prison to control them"
well shoot them then!
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Good grief tink - I agree 100%
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Agreed, debate over, unless you would like me to use some big adult words , that is !! >:(
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What about the human rights of the victims?
This git lost his human rights the moment he perpetrated his crime. Whilst we are in the EU no chance of the rope returning though.
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I saw this and it made by blood boil. Time this country stopped being governed by Europe. Lets be big boys and girls and make our own decisions and stop letting Brussels intervene.
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Well said Andy - I totally agree with you. Shoot him and have done with it - will save the country a fortune. Sod HIS human rights - he doesn't deserve any!!
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don't think you are going to find many people who will disagree with you Andy :)
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Here here!
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Not going to be much of a debate here I'm afraid. I'm also in total agreement with all that's been said.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about the human rights of these murderers who have been jailed, never to be released. Those sentences were passed for a reason! Where is it ever mentioned about the human rights of the victims and their families who have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives?!! >:(
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I think there should be a new law! if you break the law to this extent you lose your rights to be human!
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I saw this and it made by blood boil. Time this country stopped being governed by Europe. Lets be big boys and girls and make our own decisions and stop letting Brussels intervene.
I have to agree Jacqui, I was so in favour of us entering Europe, and I believe to be fair for a long time
it benefited all Europe, but those days are gone now. The bureaucracy took over! Time to get the Bus and go home --- would get the train but line closed to help pay for the HST link :)
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I always had doubts about this new section. I suspected it would like the "Grumpy" section but with the unfortunate absence of humour. Seems to turning out that way.
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Well perhaps on this particular subject we could be a bit more discuss than statement but generally
from what I have seen other subjects such as the Hijab and Poverty seem to be getting more discussion, not always to everyone's taste may be or personal views but that's Democracy for you! :)
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Colwyn
No one is forcing you to click your mouse and have a look!
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Colwyn
No one is forcing you to click your mouse and have a look!
[/quote
I just love a bit of wit and repartee! Keep on clicking Colwyn ;)
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Bring back hanging. >:(
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Hang back on bringing! [Funny face thingy]
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Very rarely does a serious Criminal begin with murder, extortion etc. They start small, so it is there that the efforts of law enforcement need to be concentrated, what they now wrongly call petty crime. Zero tolerance, harsh penalties -- New York was once the most violent and crime ridden City in the World, Mayor Giuliani -- zero tolerance --- safe to walk in a lot of places now!
What is all this nonsense about lack of prisons? We have many remote Airfields, Army Camps that could be converted -- don't tell me you can keep people in them, we seemed to have managed in the 1940's around the World! To hell with their Human Rights on visits, "if you cant do the time don't do the crime"! I wonder what would happen to the drug issues in Prisons if a Prison Officer faced minimum 10 years in Jail and loss of every right, pensions etc. if caught passing or allowing drugs to be passed? Couldn't get all those drugs in without corrupt Prison Officers could they?
The issue is that "petty crime" such as vandalism -- excuse me, wilful destruction of property in my book and should have to fully compensate as well as serve appropriate sentence, Actual Bodily Harm -- assault and damage to a human being -- should do serious time minimum 5 years, Burglary 1st offence should be 5 years no parole! Why do children misbehave --- they are testing what they can get away with -- understanding their boundaries -- that is exactly what these potential hardened criminals do -- and they find us wanting!
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Interesting topic!
I believe humankind has a built-in risk management function and this kicks in for all pre-meditated crime. Basically the criminal to be assesses the risk of getting caught and the consequences of punishment. If the risk is acceptable then he/she goes ahead and perpetrates the crime. Simples!
Since serious crime is on the increase we can therefore assume the criminals adjudge the consequences to be lenient enough not to deter them from committing the crime. Therefore the solution is quite simple. The consequences must far outweigh the benefit of the crime. We all hear of youths with a serial criminal records simply having community orders on top of community orders as punishment. This tap on the wrists for being naughty is no deterrent whatsoever so they continue.
This very simple yet unquestionable logic appears to be lost on the human rights brigade. Who are they anyway and when did I vote them in to such lofty power?
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the human rights brigade. Who are they anyway
They are a mythical creation of people who don't want to bother too much with civic realities and moral uncertainties and instead need someone to blame for whatever it is they dislike. Many of these people may be described as "right wing" but they are not limited to this label. The people branded as members of this mythical "brigade" may be identified as awkward buggers who point out things like "The UK already has the largest proportion of its population in prison of any European country and putting even more in there just seems to be doing more of the same rather than a solution" or "The USA has the highest proportion of its population in prison of any advanced industrial society and doesn't seem to be notably free of violence and crime". Damned nuisances these awkward buggers - take their human rights away!
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the human rights brigade. Who are they anyway
They are a mythical creation of people who don't want to bother too much with civic realities and moral uncertainties and instead need someone to blame for whatever it is they dislike. Many of these people may be described as "right wing" but they are not limited to this label. The people branded as members of this mythical "brigade" may be identified as awkward buggers who point out things like "The UK already has the largest proportion of its population in prison of any European country and putting even more in there just seems to be doing more of the same rather than a solution" or "The USA has the highest proportion of its population in prison of any advanced industrial society and doesn't seem to be notably free of violence and crime". Damned nuisances these awkward buggers - take their human rights away!
Colwyn, I may not always agree with what you say, (you do have a point here though), but I would defend to the death your right to say it! We have such a high percentage in jail, as does the USA, because we are a disobedient and sick society, yes we need a stronger hand with young offenders in my view, not necessarily custodial, before they become hardened to crime. Perhaps if we stopped telling little Jimmy he had passed --- when he hadn't he had failed! -- and stopped telling youth that a 46in flat screen TV, Ipad, Iphone and new car were theirs by right -- we might not be too late to change things :)
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OMG just read the Salford Advertiser, young man going back to jail for 2 years after burglary offences having just been released from prison, he did it because " I am used t getting 3 meals a day and not working much in Prison -- and I found it hard outside"!
Well, if I had a case, (probably been stolen while I was typing on here :), I would rest it!
hmmmm, "London -- we have a problem!"
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Interesting topic posted from someone living in a country who's record on human rights has (allegedly) held back it's entry into the EEC.
I'm not saying I disagree with any of the sentiments shown on this topic but Human Rights is an absoulte minefield IMO.
Sorry for the spelling - it's late :)
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To me prison should be a 8' x 8' cell, walls painted battleship grey and a bunk bed with a sink in the corner, just like on porridge. All this bull **** about prisoners having human rights is WRONG. Where were my human rights when someone broke into my house and stole my stuff.
Prisoners should have access to a tv fixed on a news channel so they know whats going on in the world, end of. IMHO.
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Could not agree more Bewva,which reminded me of a guy I met years ago who played golf at a good level and learnt the sport while doing time.Fletch was deprived :)
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Interesting views like the 8x8 cell! Well why do we put people in a Prison? To prevent them from offending and to safeguard the population against them. We hope of course to be able to rehabilitate them, but that we don't seriously do, simply because it costs a lot of money. Particularly the "first time imprisoned", (I wont say first time offender probably more first time caught! :) )
If you are going to do it right, and it has been done, you have to have a plan and a regime, bit like my own experience in the 60's, the regime was fairly brutal to begin with, never be allowed today, (Human rights!) the physical violence, the degradation, (every night at 9pm for the first 3 months you had to lay on your bed naked, and when the duty officer came to your room, you had to raise your legs in the air, then turn over so every inch of you could be checked for any rash etc. It was known as "Flesh inspection. Sounds cruel but when you have hundreds of young men all living in close proximity something like scabies could spread like a bushfire!) Then gradually regimes were relaxed, and harsh discipline was unnecessary as people had developed "self discipline" -- first rung on the ladder to criminal rehabilitation too? Then the teaching and training to the point you were ready to leave fully trained, capable, and self reliant -- isn't that what we can aim for in rehabilitation?
Perhaps when you break the law some of your Human rights are broken too? Start with the "8x8" perhaps, back into prison uniforms, no TV, no Radio, continual drug searches and kept well away from other prisoners. After a statutory period some relaxing of the regime, a chance to perhaps associate with others for limited periods. During all this phase compulsory physical exercise (costs money!) Followed by interviews and assessment, (Money), then more association, games and sports opportunities (Money!), beginning of proper training and education (Money), eventually to relaxed conditions in open prison, (Money). Finally interviews and job opportunities and if necessary Government funded (Money) employment for minimum 1 year. (Money). At any time -- the surety that break the rules and your sentence is doubled and back to the beginning -- break then make.
Perhaps Prison could be used to develop people, and their "Human Rights" managed rather than just granted?
But all this would cost a lot of money, and need a Government with the will and support of the people! Then they can have all their Human Rights back when they leave!