Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 79585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline villain

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • The most unpopular poster in the village
Re: Brexit
« Reply #250 on: November 18, 2018, 12:19:04 PM »
Aussie (ex PM) Tony Abbott sums it up beautifully!-----

That article is appalling - riddled with untruths, misconceptions, contradictions and downright lies.

“Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia.”
Here’s a list of all the Free Trade Agreements that Abbott thinks that Australia doesn’t have:

•   Australia-New Zealand (ANZCERTA or CER) — 1 January 1983
•   Singapore-Australia (SAFTA) — 28 July 2003
•   Australia-United States (AUSFTA) — 1 January 2005
•   Thailand-Australia (TAFTA) — 1 January 2005
•   Australia-Chile (ACl-FTA) — 6 March 2009
•   ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand (AANZFTA) — 1 January 2010 for eight countries: Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Burma, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Vietnam. For Thailand: 12 March 2010. For Laos: 1 January 2011. For Cambodia: 4 January 2011. For Indonesia: 10 January 2012
•   Malaysia-Australia (MAFTA) — 1 January 2013
•   Korea-Australia (KAFTA) — 12 December 2014
•   Japan-Australia (JAEPA) — 15 January 2015
•   China-Australia (ChAFTA) — 20 December 2015

FTAs concluded but not yet in force

Australia-Hong Kong Free Trade Agreement
Indonesia-Australia Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement
Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership
Peru-Australia Free Trade Agreement
Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations (PACER) Plus
signed in June 2017 by Australia, New Zealand, Cook Islands, Kiribati, Nauru, Niue, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga and Tuvalu.

FTAs under negotiation

•   Australia-European Union Free Trade Agreement
•   Australia-Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Free Trade Agreement
•   Australia-India Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement
•   Environmental Goods Agreement
•   Pacific Alliance Free Trade Agreement
•   Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership
•   Trade in Services Agreement

Hang on, didn’t Abbott say “Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia.” Sure, it does, Mr Abbott, sure it does.

What is the UK’s current situation? As EU members, the UK currently benefits from over 750 international treaties. Some allow us to trade freely with the EU and 40+ non-EU countries. Others cover a host of other issues, from air worthiness to drivers licenses, UK & EU citizens rights, food safety, etc. Article 50 states that all EU treaties will automatically cease to apply to a country 2 years after it chooses to invoke Article 50. In the UK's case, that's 29 March 2019 at 11pm UK time.

On that date we lose the benefits of all those 750+ EU treaties we participate in. All the treaties end just like that, as if we'd fed them all through a giant shredder. That's not the EU being vindictive, it's just how A50 works.

As an EU member, the currently UK has free trade deals with 78 countries (22 more pending). They cover 60.7% of our imports & 66.9% of our exports. All gone, 50+ years worth of negotiations down the toilet.

What are tariffs for, anyway? Under WTO, we control our own tariffs for imports (we can set them to zero if we want to). So if e.g. we're desperate for cabbages, we can set a tariff of 0% to encourage other countries to sell them to us. However, we MUST treat every country in the world the same. So we can have cheap things, but at the expense of our domestic industry. If we take away all the cabbage quotas and set a 0% tariff, anyone in the world can flood the UK with cheap cabbages. Great if you like cabbage. Pretty devastating if you're a UK cabbage farmer.
Cheap cabbages, you say? But Abbott says our currency will devalue, so our cabbages will end probably up costing the same but we will probably no longer have a cabbage industry. The man is a genius!

Repeat that across multiple agricultural sectors and we have a major Food Security issue. That is a dereliction of parliament’s obligations for the UK's National Security.

However, at the same time, we have no control over other countries' import tariffs when the UK sells them goods. So the EU and other countries will impose the standard WTO tariffs on everything we send to them. Indeed, under WTO rules, they HAVE to.

Which leads me to this by Abbott:

“We’re talking levies [tariffs] of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).”

So, tariffs of 4-5% will be imposed, imports will be more expensive because the £ is worth less, but imports will be cheaper? I think Mr Abbott is on drugs.

“A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards.”

So we can simultaneously set our own rules whilst Brussels sets product standards for us? Is that what “Taking back control” means?

But there’s more:

“…there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare.”

Those rules already exist under EU Freedom of Movement rules. It’s just that Home Secretaries, like, erm…Theresa May chose not to apply them. So what will change? I thought many brexiters  wanted less forigners?

Finally, “technology allows for smart borders”.

An oft-repeated Brexit lie. Tell me where in the world does this mythical border exist right now? Explain how “technology” does physical checks.

In summary, I don’t think I have ever read a more dishonest article.


I'll ask again, what would an ideal Brexit look like as far as you're concerned?



Offline LindseyMitchell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Newly Registered
Re: Brexit
« Reply #251 on: November 18, 2018, 14:15:14 PM »
Fantastic reply, Villain.

Offline LindseyMitchell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Newly Registered
Re: Brexit
« Reply #252 on: November 21, 2018, 16:07:45 PM »
Looks like you had the last word on Brexit, Villain.

Offline KKOB

  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13570
  • I'm hearing the word.... Nonce !
Re: Brexit
« Reply #253 on: November 21, 2018, 17:20:38 PM »
No. I have.

Until.................

Offline 1calis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Newly Registered
Re: Brexit
« Reply #254 on: November 22, 2018, 13:04:51 PM »
Let's wait and see how much May capitulates to the EU. UK will be under EU control thanks to May. Will UK fishing waters be given to EU as part of a weak deal?. May is not delivering brexit.

Offline nichola

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4620
  • Location: Turkey
Re: Brexit
« Reply #255 on: November 22, 2018, 13:49:54 PM »
Strangely enough the answer may be here...

Revealed: the millionaires hoarding UK fishing rights...

"The finding comes from a new Unearthed investigation that traced the owners of more than 95% of UK quota holdings – including, for the first time, those of Scotland, the UK’s biggest fishing nation.

In England nearly 80% of fishing quota is held by foreign owners or domestic Rich List families, and more than half of Northern Ireland’s quota is hoarded onto a single trawler.

The news comes as the government is preparing to publish a new fisheries bill, which will set the legal foundations for the UK’s fishing industry after Brexit. The Tories have said the new bill will not see any redistribution of the UK’s existing quota rights.

As Unearthed’s investigation reveals, this would leave the bulk of UK fishing rights in the hands of a small domestic elite and a handful of foreign multinationals.

Responding to Unearthed’s findings, Labour shadow environment secretary Sue Hayman said ministers needed to take “urgent action to use the powers that they have domestically to redistribute fishing quota to deliver a fairer deal for smaller boats”.

Read the rest of it here...

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/?fbclid=IwAR2WaiLyBb9EuVIvmbQj6DcuPQLWQj1VqJH65-TLZEUPcSHAsiZB0EaPUW0


Offline LindseyMitchell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Newly Registered
Re: Brexit
« Reply #256 on: November 22, 2018, 14:11:45 PM »
The fact is that Britain is not a big fish eating nation any more, apart from fish and chips, and frozen ‘pop it in the oven’ type fish.  Most of the fish caught in our waters is exported.

May has no choice but to ‘capitulate’ iCalis.  The alternative to the present deal, which I agree is not ideal, is to have a no-deal, cliff edge Brexit, which would be catastrophic for Britain.

Offline peter16

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 358
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Brexit
« Reply #257 on: November 23, 2018, 09:11:46 AM »
There is always the alternative of admitting we were fooled two years ago and rescinding article 50.

Offline 1calis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Newly Registered
Re: Brexit
« Reply #258 on: November 23, 2018, 13:49:05 PM »
who was fooled?

Offline KKOB

  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13570
  • I'm hearing the word.... Nonce !
Re: Brexit
« Reply #259 on: November 23, 2018, 13:50:07 PM »
There is always the alternative of admitting we were fooled two years ago and rescinding article 50.

You may have been.




Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf