Brexit

[saoirse]

Saoirse

Couldn’t the Sinn Fein MPs rock up to the Houses of Parliament to vote with the tories just to p1ss off the DUP     

They were elected on a strictly abstentionist ticket

Best estimates would be they would lose up to 60% of their vote were they to betray their base

[Scunner]

Phil

Yeah I know  

[LindseyMitchell]

So, SuzyQ what were your reasons for voting Leave?
I’d be very interested to know.

[suzyq]

In 1975 I cast my first ever vote to stay in the common market because we were led to believe we were joining a free trade area, not gradually lose our national sovereignty. I feel that the EU has become a behemoth unaccountable organisation whose end wish is to create a superstate, of which I do not want to be a part of. Why have their accounts never been audited, why is £150 million spent every year on members travelling to Strasbourg once a month, why are expenses not regulated? Yes our government is far from ideal but we can use our vote if we wish to see a change. The U.K. has always been a part of Europe, at least that’s what I learnt when I went to school, but being British will always come first and the sense of losing our identity is one of the main reasons I voted to leave. I just feel we should have more control and involvement in our own country instead of having to conform to a one size fits all kind of laws and recommendations and I don’t appreciate being told I’m ignorant or ill educated because I have a different opinion to a remainer.

[Highlander]

.....and I don’t appreciate being told I’m ignorant or ill educated because I have a different opinion to a remainer.

Very well said suzyq - I await with interest to see the response of others on here.

People who voted No in the Scottish Independence Referendum are subject to exactly the same accusations.

[LindseyMitchell]

To start with, I would never, ever accuse anyone of being ignorant or ill educated because they didn’t agree with my stance on any matter.  Everyone’s opinion counts, that’s democracy in action.
I would, however, take issue with some of the statements you make.
You speak of expenses;  have you seen details of the expenses our MPs claim, for second homes, expensive furnishings for same, five figure salaries for wives/husbands/offspring as assistants, the famous duck ponds, and a couple of weeks ago for wreaths laid at the Cenotaph.
Yes, we can use our votes, but that is useless in most constituencies;  where I live, a former mining town, they might as well weigh the votes rather than count them;  the same happens in some affluent areas where the conservatives hold sway.  The only areas where change is possible is where they have close run ballots, a tiny minority of the seats available. 
Speaking personally, I have never felt less than being a hundred percent British, but I also feel European in that I feel at home in European countries far more than in the places I’ve visited in America, Asia and Africa.  I have never felt that my identity was in any way altered or threatened.
I will repeat the question I asked my Brexiter friend (who is still my best friend, and has been since 1963, and who I love and respect):  which laws and regulations do you take exception to?  Food safety, clean beaches, co-operation in policing and anti-terrorism, workers’ rights???
Of more importance to me is the increasing influence of America on our culture - my town has about 20 American fast food outlets, Halloween was never a thing in my childhood, every school, be it primary or secondary seems to have a prom, and Americanisms are making their way into our vocabulary.  Do you think Trump’s reasons for supporting Brexit are unselfish because he loves our country;  I think not.  I think he wants America to have a big stake in our NHS, and to be able to flog us second rate (chemically enhanced) food.  In effect, he wants us to be his 53rd state. 
Europe or America, that seems to be our choice,and i know which I prefer.

[suzyq]

Hi Lyndsey, a lot of what you say I agree with, some of the laws passed have been of great benefit but I do object being told what light bulbs to use. I also agree about Americanisation but think that is probably more to do with social media than politics. I have seriously been considering never voting again as politics has also changed, it appears that the majority of them seem to think we value their opinion more than our own and as you say have their noses in the trough. Thankfully we are still allowed to debate our differences and I’m glad you don’t class people as ignorant because they disagree with your views but unfortunately a lot of people do and I think that is a great problem in today’s society. I’m sure we can also agree that the present situation is one big mess and the sooner they get on with it and we can move forward the better.

[LindseyMitchell]

Yes, social media has a lot to answer for, but Trump has been very vociferous about his dislike of the EU, and his enthusiasm for trading with us post Brexit, which I find deeply sinister.
It must be tricky being an MP sometimes, deciding whether to vote according to their own conscience and deeply held beliefs, or whether to vote as a delegate on behalf of their constituents.  There’s also the fact that party whips can order them to vote in a certain way, and told they could commit professional suicide if they don’t. 
I’ve been name called too because of my stance on Brexit;  it must be one of the biggest causes of arguments among friends and families there has ever been. The present situation is deplorable, and I think everyone will be pleased when it’s over and done with.
As a parting shot, however, I would say that risking huge unemployment, a big fall in our living standards, chaos regarding our food and medicines supply - all of which outcomes are openly admitted by staunch Brexiteers in parliament - for the sake of energy saving light bulbs may be a bit silly.

[villain]

who was fooled?

Actually I don't care. I prefer to blame the people who were doing the fooling:

“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside.” - David Davis 10 October 2016

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.” - John Redwood July 17 2016

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.” - Liam Fox 20 July 2017

“We're not really interested in a transition deal, but we'll consider one to be kind to the EU.” - David Davis 15 November 2016

“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019.” - David Davis 18 January 2017

“Indeed, [a trade deal] would take significantly less than two years. We hold all the cards. We will offer them a deal in response to their pleas for help.” - Patrick Minford 14 June 2016

“I am not worried about transitional arrangements. I am prepared to take the economic hit to secure the economic benefits of not being inside the Single Market and being outside the Customs Union. I simply want... a quickie divorce.” - Michael Gove 17 November 2016

“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated.” - David Davis 14 July 2016

“Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee.” - Gerard Batten 17 February 2017

“Within minutes of a vote for Brexit, CEOs would be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door demanding access to the British market.” - David Davis 4 February 2016

“The cost of getting out would be virtually nil and the cost of staying in would be very high.” - Boris Johnson 6 March 2016

“I think we could very easily get a better trade deal than we have at the moment.” - Douglas Carswell 8 June 2016

“All David Davis needs to say to is: listen guys free trade or WTO?” - Tim Martin 2 January 2017

"It will be easy to negotiate a trade deal. It's in the EU's interests." - Paul Nutall 17 January 2017

"Nobody ever pretended this would be simple or easy." - David Davis 5 September 2017



And guess what, they're still at it:

“If we need to leave with no deal and negotiate a free trade agreement during the transition period, so be it.” - David Davis a couple of weeks ago...

(if anybody is still struggling with why that is simply nonsensical – ask yourself - would there even be a so-called “transition period” if there was no deal and no withdrawal agreement?

Source: https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/11/david-davis-there-has-long-been-an-alternative-to-this-discredited-draft-deal-its-the-canada-style-plan-that-tusk-and-barnier-offered-us.html

[KKOB]

I'm getting the feeling that you're a just a tad obsessive about this Brexit thingy.