Brexit

[LindseyMitchell]

We did register for a postal vote.  I also would never, ever, not vote.
Sitting round at breakfast at the Tugay Hotel that morning when the results were announced, everyone turned their chairs round to watch BBC News.  There was a lot of discussion.
From this discussion I learned that hardly anyone there had had a postal vote;  at the time, it was widely expected that the Remain side would win - all the polls predicted this.  It was going to be a walkover.  I would say a good three quarters of those present were shocked and dismayed, as we were.

As I write, policemen are being trained in preparation for deployment to Northern Ireland;  if there are fatalities there in the event of a No Deal Brexit, there will be blood on the hands of Brexiteers.
We seem to have given a 13.8 million pound contract for transporting food to a firm with no ships, and who copied and pasted their contract from a food delivery firm.
Yes, the EU will miss our contributions, but when firms continue to migrate to mainland Europe, the financial benefits will be huge.

I think of myself as a patriotic person;  we have many things to be proud of, but I do not share the Brexiteer dream of a 60s utopia (when England swung like a pendulum do!) when there were Buy British signs everywhere.  The world has moved on, but we seem to want to go into full reverse.  I wish I could take an optimism pill, but with no manufacturing of its own to speak of, I cannot imagine a world where plucky little Britain can go it alone.

[madmart]

Therein lies a problem.

How many of the most vociferous Remainers thought it was a done deal and didn't bother to vote? In my opinion if you didn't vote you have no right to complain about the result of the ballot.

At the time of the referendum Mrs Madmart was on an extended holiday in Calis which meant she was out of the country at the time. I had to come home as I didn't have enough holiday entitlement that year. Before we left the country we arranged a Proxy Vote for my wife. We had a few hoops to jump through as there had previously been concerns of election fraud in Woking, (resulting in Woking being one of the areas where at the last election you had to produce ID at the polling station). This came through and I was able to vote on my wife's behalf.

At the same time my father was ill with terminal cancer in Cornwall where he lived, he took a major turn for the worse the weekend after I returned home and was admitted to hospital, when he was due to be discharged I went to my parents to collect him from the hospital so that he could be with my mother. I drove from Woking to Cornwall on the Monday before the vote. On the day of the referendum he had to return to the hospital for a quick check over and was then able to go home. This involved a 60 round trip from their house to the hospital. I had a quick cup of coffee and then jumped back in the car and drove back to Woking to cast our votes. Part of this drive involved my 3rd trip along the A39 from Bude to Barnstaple that day.

The upshot of this is to anyone who says they couldn't be bothered to make the arrangements to vote I say; you only have yourselves to blame.

[Highlander]

I think you’ll find, Highlander, that the last two paragraphs of your quote cancel out the first paragraph. 

Lindsey - as you know, it's not my quote it's something you re-posted in the other place. As I said there.....

Question: what percentage of the electorate and percentage of the population voted against Brexit ?. Answer less than voted for it

65% of the electorate didn't vote for Tony Blair but the country still got him !!!!

I know for a certain fact that if Remain had won it have been the called "the will of the British people".

What seems to being suggesting is that the government should have said to 17,410,742 people) the majority "thanks for your advice but you can shove it because some (and it IS only some) of your 16,141,241 opponents disagree with the result so we are going to take their advice instead.

Now we are being told that remainers, who are now so vociferous after the event, couldn't be bothered to get off there collective backsides and vote on the most important issue facing the country or were on holiday as if Brexiters cancelled theirs.

[Highlander]

Brexiteers know they’d be defeated in a second vote, to stop the madness.

And if so would that be the will of the people ?

[LindseyMitchell]

None of this negates the fact that Brexit is not now, in my opinion, the will of the people;  it’s like a car crash!!
Yes, lots of people voted for Tony Blair back in the day, but they later excercised their right to change their minds.  Rather like a couple who got married two years ago, and then divorce;  should their family and friends oppose the divorce as it was their will two years ago, even though they’re thoroughly miserable together?
Yes, Highlander, a second vote would be the will of the people, now they know the full implications, which no one (not even members of HM government) did at the time.

[madmart]

The quote used earlier of course falls over in at least one major respect.

It assumes that all those who; a) didn't vote, b) couldn't be bothered to vote or c) whatever reason they can of think justifies not voting, were going to vote Remain. As they know only too well that is not going to be the case as many of those may well have voted Leave, but is yet another way of manipulating the figures to suit their own agenda.

[LindseyMitchell]

You’re absolutely right, madmart;  some, or even most of the people who didn’t vote may have voted Leave.
You missed my point though;  it is everyone’s prerogative to change their minds, as I truly believe a lot of people have, now they are aware of the way their lives will be affected in lots of different ways, viz:
Unemployment (do you think the likes of Toyota or Nissan will stay?)
Increased food prices, with tariffs placed on EU foods;  shortage of food too
Shortage of medicines - cancer isotopes are all imported, and most insulin
The ability of our people, especially the young, to live and work in Europe
The devastating effect on our NHS; we don’t have enough doctors and nurses, and if all or even a lot of these people go home, the NHS will collapse.  It takes years to train our own people.
Farmers and hoteliers will suffer greatly from staff shortages
Most of our fishermen sell their quotas now or export their catches to Europe.  No gain on sovereignty of our waters
And last, but not least...
The troubles may well return to Northern Ireland, and will our much depleted armed forces be able to cope?  I understand that May is trying to get the EU to agree to a 12 month time limit on the backstop.  They won’t.  If they did, what would happen then?  I can see no alternative to a hard border.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten some more of the horrors that await us, but I think that’s enough to be going on with.
Before you dismiss this as Project Fear, think of the emergency measures being taken for if we have a No Deal.  Either the fears are misplaced, or the government is being stupid. 

[Highlander]

Lindsey - I understand that Mr Jeremy "for the many not the few" Corbyn would go ahead with Brexit if Labour won a snap election. (I know he believes he can negotiate a better deal, but I don't)

Do you think he would be right to do so.

[KKOB]

[LindseyMitchell]

Highlander, I don’t believe anyone could have negotiated a better deal, despite what BoJo and JRM say.  We gave them a lot of time to work out their strategy, and they seem to have used it well.  Why would they give us a good deal when we are leaving and all the other countries are still paying their dues.

Brexit is the one thing I disagree with Corbyn about;  to be fair to him, he’s always supported Brexit, and hasn’t changed tack like May and BoJo.  He still has 90+% of my support though, as I believe he is principled and honest, despite what our millionaire owned press say about him.