What do think?

[johntaylor49]

Phew, I had a feeling this topic might raise some interest but never expected such a response!

So many views, and yes of course I had strong feelings about it.

Prison should be more about rehabilitation than just punishment but very much on an iron fist and velvet glove understanding, and it can work for many. (Living proof is Australia  --- you didn't get sent there for stealing a loaf of bread because you were hungry as Australians like to pretend --- you were a repeat offender -- excellent book "The Fatal Shore" about the real Penal Colony! Most people in our prisons do come from underprivileged or corrupting backgrounds but that doesn't mean that minor criminals cant be rehabilitated. We haver heard references to Borstal Boys doing well etc. (as a young soldier my Drill Sergeant had joined the Army from Borstal) and there were 5 boys from approved schools in my Company. But the understaffing and overcrowding mean that minor offenders are locked up most of the time with hardened criminals which is no place for rehabilitation.

Perhaps the Dalaman model could mean we don't have to fund the extra Tax for long which is why I thought of one parliamentary term.

Interesting the thoughts on the death penalty, I have always felt we would never get a referendum on that as no Government wants to be known as the one that restored it, and because every Government knows it would be a resounding "Yes" Vote!

Life means Life, and death for heinous crimes that could not possibly involve miscarriage of justice or insanity? Wish I knew how to set up a "vote" here -- be interesting to see the result as our own little opinion poll --- anyone every been "polled" by the way? I have only ever been asked about my views on the BBC Radio   I never believe any polls personally, they ask 2500 people in Surrey and say its the view of a Country of over 50 Million!

John

[usedbustickets]

I cannot stand the thought of my hard earned taxes going into such a failed scheme as the British Prison service, particularly the privatised one.  Does Prison work? I.e does it stop people from reoffending once they get out..no it does not, at least in the majority of cases of ex offenders.  So come up with a workable alternative and I will listen, but methinks some people want offenders sent to prison for punishment, not as a punishment in itself.... Which is why they are so frustrated by the whole thing anyway.

[Colwyn]

I never believe any polls personally, they ask 2500 people in Surrey and say its the view of a Country of over 50 Million

Any polling company that did that wouldn't stay in business very long. Which is why they don't do it.

[Jacqui Harvey]

Yes.


But if you don't here is a simple introduction.


The Crime Survey for England and Wales measures the extent of crime in England and Wales by asking people whether they have experienced any crime in the past year.
The survey has measured crime in this way since 1982 and is a valuable source of information for the government about the extent and nature of crime in England and Wales. The Crime Survey for England and Wales is the new name for the British Crime Survey. A separate survey (the Scottish Crime and Justice survey) measures the extent of crime in Scotland. The survey is conducted by TNS-BMRB on behalf of the Office for National Statistics.
The Crime Survey records crimes that may not have been reported to the police and it is therefore used alongside the police recorded crime figures to show a more accurate picture of the level of crime in the country.
In 2012/13 around 50,000 households across England and Wales were invited to participate in the survey.   Three quarters of households invited to take part actually did so and it is thanks to this cooperation from the public that the survey can provide the robust information needed by government to understand the nature of crime in this country.
This website contains more information about the survey for people who have been invited to take part. 
   
 
 
 
 
 

What poll is any use if it does not include Scotland?...England and Wales pah !!!

[Colwyn]

I believe Scotland has a different legal system. At least so the people that live there tell me - time and again, and again, and again, and ........................

[KKOB]

What's the use of a poll that invites 55,000 households in England and Wales to take part, and then when just three quarters of them do, they call it a Crime Survey for England and Wales ? At a rough guess I'd say that the households polled constitute less than half a percent of the population.

[Colwyn]

It wouldn't matter if they polled the entire population some people still wouldn't believe the results if they went against their prejudices. I can hear them now bleating "It was a rigged question! They asked people at the wrong time of day! People didn't understand the survey!".

[KKOB]

So Colwyn, do you believe the figures ?

[Colwyn]

Surveys are not a matter for belief, that's for religion. If you mean do these figures give a reasonably accurate indication of what is happening to crime in this country - yes I think so. 55,000 is a huge sample population and 75% is a great response rate (any commercial pollster would your arm off for that all the time). The questions are reasonably factual: they are about things that actually happened and people tend to know when they've been robbed, beaten up, and so on - we are not dealing with dodgy matters of opinion. And these surveys have been conducted for over 30 year so I think people know what they are doing with them. I think the survey is very important since it can be compared with the police-reported figures on crime which are, at best, dubious. It may also curb the more extreme of police reporting malpractice. Without the Crime Survey we would have just the police reports to inform us of what is going on. Oh, and the "news" in the Daily Mail and what our mates said down the pub.

[johntaylor49]

Or of course there could be the view that no matter how suspicious the results looked people could believe them because of their prejudices??  I don't think that anyone has any faith in any figures from any Government any more  

Scotland is an interesting point Jacqui, as yes the Legal System is different and many would argue better. ( I saw for myself how good the Education system was as all my Grandchildren jumped a grade when they moved from Edinburgh to Chester!) I have always loved the verdicts, Guilty, Innocent and NOT PROVEN! I love that, everyone knows you did it but we cant prove it! I remember Lord Denning (former Master of the Rolls -- the most senior Judge), in saying that he was opposed to sentencing rules being subject to offences and government rules, as he felt his job was to see that Justice was done, and that isn't possible when you cant give a lenient judgement or a very harsh one based on the crime and evidence.

But Justice having been done, if it has, then do we want to reform the Prison System, and if we do, are we willing to pay for it? Perhaps the reason we lock up more people than anyone else in Europe stems from the fact we are the most badly behaved, dishonest Country in Europe, and our system creates hardened criminals rather than rehabilitating the minor offender?  Perhaps our Prisons should advertise like Universities do, (those colleges of Further Education and Polytechnics that call themselves that these days), only instead of "the best for Physics" it could be "Where housebreaking is an Art"??

A lot of interesting views, shall we have a Poll??   1st Baron of Wem excluded for Voting of course!