Author Topic: London mosque  (Read 3741 times)

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Offline davybill

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London mosque
« on: June 19, 2017, 07:11:13 AM »
According to the news, a vehicle drove into a crowd of muslims
Leaving a mosque last night, killing one person and injuring
several others.



Offline Colwyn

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 15:15:21 PM »
It is not clear whether the dead man was killed by the white van as he was already receiving first aid when the attack happened. Ten other people were treated at the scene or taken to hospital. The driver is reported as shouting "I want to kill Muslims" and he was then protected from the anger of the crowd by the imam.

Offline Stuart T

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 20:33:31 PM »
This has been described as "an act of terrorism" by various bodies.

I'm not sure (although I am fairly confident) that this "act of terrorism" nonsense is designed to appease those who have heard for some time that "all Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims" i.e. we, the government, are going to categorise all perpetrators the same for seemingly similar acts.

What a crock.

This appears to be a lone nut job, on no list of known agitators nor a member of any organisation.

I may be wrong but I don't think so.

I see no reason to call this an act of terrorism.

Offline Colwyn

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 20:45:11 PM »
"Terrorism is a term used in its broadest sense to describe the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror or fear, in order to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim. It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence against civilians or non-combatants." (Wikipedia).


The attacker said he wanted to kill all Muslims. To me, that seems to fit the definition well enough. As far as I can tell the violence was intentional; it was used against unknown individuals indiscriminately; and its aim was not concerned with robbery, personal revenge, seeking advantage or for any other reason except a hatred of a religious group.

Offline Stuart T

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 21:16:08 PM »
As you say Colwyn, "in its broadest sense".

In the same sentence it says "indiscriminate" violence. This was entirely discriminating. They were leaving a mosque.

Again, I concede that he was unlikely to be seeking to kill known individuals.

Wikipedia's opening statement is "there is no universal agreement on the definition of terrorism".

There are many other Wikipedia definitions that would not describe the actions of this nutcase as an act of terrorism (Terrorism Act 2000).

I still do not feel that the actions of this unaffiliated, single person can be seen as an act of terrorism.

The authorities are playing word games again.




Offline KKOB

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 21:28:03 PM »
Perhaps "an act of terror" would be a better description ?

Offline Stuart T

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 21:45:05 PM »
I concur. A terrifying incident.

Mohammed Kozbar, the mosque's chairman, wants it to be described as a "terrorist attack".

Darren Osborne, a nut job from Cardiff with no known associates, acted seemingly alone.

The Met have said that it is "too early" to say if it is "terror related".

Not too early for me.

I'm sure he'd be delighted to be tagged as a terrorist (or freedom fighter) instead of a complete freaking nutcase acting entirely alone.

Offline Scunner

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 21:48:16 PM »
So it isn't an act of terrorism because this welsh guy acted alone. But when a Muslim acts alone it is an act of terrorism?

Offline Stuart T

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 22:05:59 PM »
Semantics, Scunner.

My view is pretty much determined by what I understand to be a *terrorist attack".

What incident, in recent times, has been committed by a Muslim "acting alone"? None that I know of.

This Welshman doesn't appear to be part of any terrorist organisation.

However, in its "broadest" sense I am sure you have a rational argument.

I don't see this man as a terrorist - merely a nutcase making a name for himself.


Offline Scunner

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Re: London mosque
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 22:15:32 PM »

What incident, in recent times, has been committed by a Muslim "acting alone"? None that I know of.

Several

For starters

"The Manchester suicide bomber mostly acted alone in the days before the attack, police have said.

Salman Abedi is thought to have purchased the main components for the bomb and assembled it himself before blowing himself up and killing 22 others at the Manchester Arena last week"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/manchester-suicide-bomber-mostly-acting-alone-police-say/

And that's just using 15 seconds research




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