Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum

Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: rusty on April 29, 2018, 15:55:32 PM

Title: Property for rent
Post by: rusty on April 29, 2018, 15:55:32 PM
 Hi folks,
Due to our friends daughter not needing our 2 bed, 2 bathroom apartment now - it is free for 1 week. The dates are Weds 19th - 26th September only, cannot be flexible on this, I am afraid.

The apartment is very nice and is on Sunset Beach Club in Calis.....£250.00 for the week.

Diane  :)
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: KKOB on April 29, 2018, 16:57:33 PM
Make up your mind ! Is it free for a week or £250 for a week ?  ;)
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: JohnF on April 30, 2018, 08:49:26 AM
You registered with Polis for short term lets Diane? 

If so who are you using and how are you finding them?  Feedback may help other members.

If not...  :o

JF
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: rusty on April 30, 2018, 17:07:32 PM
Lol...Kkob!! As much as I love you guys on here and all that!!

We rent the 2 bed apartment out all year through a letting agent over there.....Aqua Lettings....but we have use of it for 4 weeks of the year. We could probably have more but sadly we are both working and do not have the time. So we let our family  and friends use it as we own half of another 3 bed apartment, so we co-ordinate the 2 weeks that we use it in May and then again in September. 

I am aware that they are very strict on who is staying in the apartments, and that is fair enough - I was told the Police have even been on Sunset, checking. But I was just going to give the details of who was staying in our apartment to Aqua Lettings.
I just thought it's silly not to capitalise on it as it is just sitting there empty.

Diane

Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: JohnF on April 30, 2018, 19:20:09 PM
Nice to know you're happy with Aqua, but are you registered or not, you didn't actually say one way or t'other  :)

JF
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: rusty on April 30, 2018, 21:07:47 PM
I personally am not registered with anyone as Aqua manage both the apartments for me.

So, if someone did rent it for that week, I would just give the renter's details to them to put through their system.

Couldn't be bothered with that side of things, just want to holiday when abroad!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Scunner on April 30, 2018, 21:12:33 PM
Not sure it works like that - you NEED to be registered personally. They can look after the admin and coming and goings but it is you who is responsible - Aqua won't be liable for any fines on your property rentals.

You do need to check you are definitely registered - the fines are brutal.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 01, 2018, 11:45:47 AM
I can here the sound of very loud alarm bells ringing............

You should assume that you cannot now let a property in Turkey without some type of legal letting contract, personal registration or tax registration or a combination of these.

It may have changed since last year, but the situation certainly was that the Property Owner had to register with the Police. The property would then be listed on the Police database and a PIN code was issued to allow on line guest registration. The PIN could be used by a third party with the relevant soft ware and appropriate internet connection.

If you have not done this the Management Agency cannot be registering guests on line. I am not sure if they would be able to do it in person. ( But how can they register guests to a property if it is not on the database  ? ).

If your name is on the Tapu you are responsible for ensuring the relevant legal requirements are in place - it is you that will be fined, not the Management Company.

Please, please check the situation as a matter of urgency and seek more advice ( and do NOT take the word of the Management Company )

Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: DavidNicholson on May 01, 2018, 12:40:42 PM
Just a question on this.  I thought that the regulations only relate to "short term rentals", and I thought that an owner could enter into a "long term rental agreement" (3 months or more) with an agency, and then that agency could then deal with any short term rentals, and they would be responsible for complying with the regulations.

That would seem to make sense, but it was hear say, so may not be accurate.

I am sure there are those on here that will know the facts of the matter.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 01, 2018, 12:54:15 PM
You are right David - a long term rental contract as you describe is possible.

But it requires a formal contract, tax has to be paid ( by someone ) on the proceeds of the contract, and you would have to pay to stay in your own property during the period that the contract covers.

The Management Company would carry out the guest registrations - but they can only do this if the property is registered in the first place.

Although a contract would define the responsibilities of the Management Company any fine for transgression of the registration process would be levied against the property owner. You could then try to recover the amount from the Management Company .............

Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: rusty on May 01, 2018, 21:05:38 PM
Hi Phil,
I will check out what you are saying with Aqua when we are over there on the 16th....

They are very strict on wanting the details of any family or friends that we let stay in our apartment whilst we also, are holidaying there. They ask for their passport details, so we scan them and send via an email before we go.

 They manage quite a few properties, so hopefully are fully aware of what's now required to let.

Diane
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 02, 2018, 08:37:08 AM
That all sounds good and as it should be.
Hope that all checks out and there is nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: cenk on May 03, 2018, 08:26:05 AM
There is no change about the rules since last year. Everything is same.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Ray1951 on May 03, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties.  It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will.  What next?
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: stoop on May 03, 2018, 10:51:34 AM
The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties.  It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will.  What next?

Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.

I guess the hotels are happy though.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Scunner on May 03, 2018, 16:45:30 PM
The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties.  It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will.  What next?

Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.

I guess the hotels are happy though.

Will they though?

Many people go to a place because their friend has a property there. It doesn’t mean they will automatically come to Calis/Fethiye.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: stoop on May 03, 2018, 16:49:01 PM
The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties.  It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will.  What next?

Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.

I guess the hotels are happy though.

Will they though?

Many people go to a place because their friend has a property there. It doesn’t mean they will automatically come to Calis/Fethiye.

Actually you have a point there. Many will probably just go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Steve A on May 04, 2018, 00:01:24 AM
If you register and are straight about the costs,sensible with pricing,your friends and family will still have cheap accommodation
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Scunner on May 04, 2018, 00:07:26 AM
I think Stoop's main point is that he isn't looking to make a profit, just let family and friends stay if they cover the cost of the electricity etc.

His other point is that with all this registration and reporting of guests, he simply can't be ar$ed :D
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: stoop on May 04, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
I think Stoop's main point is that he isn't looking to make a profit, just let family and friends stay if they cover the cost of the electricity etc.

His other point is that with all this registration and reporting of guests, he simply can't be ar$ed :D

Spot on!
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Anne on May 04, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
If you register and are straight about the costs,sensible with pricing,your friends and family will still have cheap accommodation

It's not just the registering though.  It's the accountant (and their fees) to do your annual tax returns.  For us, like Stoop, it's just not worth the hassle
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 17, 2018, 16:37:36 PM
We registered and "went legal" last year and so far the whole thing has been hassle free and not hugely expensive.

If you used to say to your relatives and friends "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance" you could now say "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance AND pay registration costs, VAT and tax" the difference would not be massive and they would still be getting a cheap holiday.

There is not really any hassle at all.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: JohnF on May 17, 2018, 17:21:29 PM
Good post Phil.

So how much do you charge your Auntie Jeanie for a week in the sun, just the registration element?

JF
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 17, 2018, 19:03:39 PM
The phrase "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance" has never been one I have used.......................
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: JohnF on May 17, 2018, 19:19:47 PM
Ha ha, me neither. But, many on here do - if you were one of these less generous individuals, how much would you lump on to Auntie Jeanies bill for the week?

JF
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 18, 2018, 09:52:02 AM
The amount I would charge would depend on whether she was staying with Uncle Albert in a two bed apart in May ( not much aircon use) or if she was bringing her daughter and son in law with two teenage grand children and staying in a 3 bed Villa in July ( loads of aircon ) and was then going to leave a massive pile of laundry.

But to give a more helpful answer, we put our prices up by £50.00 / week and with the help and advice of the accountant we are probably covering the extra costs with a few quid to spare.

However ................... I am still waiting to see if there are any further taxes which are effectively paid in arrears.

Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: JohnF on May 18, 2018, 10:06:16 AM
Ok, so effectively the extra charge to friends/family to cover registration, tax and accountants fees is approximately £50 per week?

I know a lot of folks have decided not to register because of the extra expense, I was hoping that your experience may help other make an informed decision.  At £50 a week, I think I know what some will do...  :)

JF
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: stoop on May 18, 2018, 14:12:17 PM
So based on £50 per week how many weeks do you need to rent in order to pay the costs?

Or maybe a better question - how many weeks do you expect to rent out your place?

Because if we only let friends and family stay a couple of times a year - say four weeks - I can’t see that covering the cost of registering, etc.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: SteveJ on May 18, 2018, 21:08:23 PM
Agreed with you Stoop - just not worth it. My family and friends would have spent a lot of money in the local economy but all that has been lost
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Rana on May 18, 2018, 21:41:01 PM
Hi Phil, we registered last year but as yet haven't had any friends or family stay. How would we go about registering with tax? My brother-in-law is an accountant and says he can do it but do you do per year or per holiday stay?  Thanks
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: SteveJ on May 19, 2018, 08:40:41 AM
I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. If you can't provide proof of bookings they will base the value on their own estimate of what you may have earned in "rent" during those years.

I pass this on to you without any knowledge of its' veracity but before the accusations of rumormongering start let me just say that the person who told me this is Turkish, in a position to know what is going on and so far has proved to be both accurate and reliable.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Scunner on May 19, 2018, 14:03:47 PM
Sounds perfectly plausible, once people register it would make sense for them to assume that this isn't the first year they will be earning an income from renting - like shooting fish in a barrel for the Turkish taxmen.

I learned that the taxman is more feared than the police in Turkey and if they say you owe x amount you have two choices - pay it, or reject the number and pay the higher number they then pluck from nowhere.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: stoop on May 19, 2018, 14:34:42 PM
I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. If you can't provide proof of bookings they will base the value on their own estimate of what you may have earned in "rent" during those years.

I pass this on to you without any knowledge of its' veracity but before the accusations of rumormongering start let me just say that the person who told me this is Turkish, in a position to know what is going on and so far has proved to be both accurate and reliable.

Reason #999 ;-)
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 20, 2018, 11:01:50 AM

Or maybe a better question - how many weeks do you expect to rent out your place?


This question had me diving for the spread sheets .......

Based on OUR situation and costs I reckon 8 weeks a year is enough to cover costs. ( which we normally easily achieve)

I could see how for other properties and costs that the number of weeks could be less ( or more).

The point I cannot emphasise enough is that the whole thing does not involve bother or hassle. Everything is very simple.
In fact, I am now more relaxed that we are totally legal than I was before the Registration Process was introduced.
At least now I don't have to worry that a disgruntled neighbour might report me to the Tax Office.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 20, 2018, 11:12:01 AM
How would we go about registering with tax?

You submit the appropriate form to the Tax Office. A few days later they come to the property - principally to make sure that it exists. You are then issued with your Tax Registration Certificate with Tax number.

( Things have obviously changed because at one time you could not complete the Police Registration with out the Tax Number).

Once you have your Tax Number you can get your first book of Official Invoices Printed ( Fatura ). You will need to complete one of  these for every guest.

You then need a Notarised copy of your passport and signature and you open a Notarised Account Book.

We also gave our Accountant a Power of Attorney.

A VAT form is submitted every month ( even if there are no guests ) and there is a tax form to be completed every quarter and then at the end of the year.

It all sounds complicated - but it isn't - and our accountant did everything. He charges us 130TL every month to do everything for us.


Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 20, 2018, 11:27:54 AM
I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. .


This is pretty much correct. The Tax Office is already checking that they have a matching Tax Return for every Police Registration.

If you have not registered for Tax they will issue an Assessment from the date of Police Registration. This process has already begun and assessments have been sent.
They are also sending Assessments to any owners that were issued with fines for non-registration during the course of last year.

Like any Tax Authority in the world they do have the power to investigate you for previous years (In England it's seven years).
However, if you have registered and paid all your taxes during the course of last year they have unofficially sort of declared an amnesty on previous years activities.

If you decide to argue with any assesments, fines, penalties etc they have the five year rule to invoke and it's a big stick to beat you with.
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 20, 2018, 11:29:59 AM
How would we go about registering with tax?

Another issue that can make a difference to the Tax Registration is the number of names on the Tapu
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: SteveJ on May 20, 2018, 12:55:32 PM
I assume that one name is easier (less expensive?) than two?
Title: Re: Property for rent
Post by: Phil on May 20, 2018, 13:13:11 PM
One name is certainly easier than two. We have two names on our Tapu, but this was not a massive / expensive issue to deal with.

There seem to be a few ways of dealing with multiple names on the Tapu, and at this point I feel my alleged "expertise" runs out.