Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: rusty on April 29, 2018, 15:55:32 PM
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Hi folks,
Due to our friends daughter not needing our 2 bed, 2 bathroom apartment now - it is free for 1 week. The dates are Weds 19th - 26th September only, cannot be flexible on this, I am afraid.
The apartment is very nice and is on Sunset Beach Club in Calis.....£250.00 for the week.
Diane :)
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Make up your mind ! Is it free for a week or £250 for a week ? ;)
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You registered with Polis for short term lets Diane?
If so who are you using and how are you finding them? Feedback may help other members.
If not... :o
JF
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Lol...Kkob!! As much as I love you guys on here and all that!!
We rent the 2 bed apartment out all year through a letting agent over there.....Aqua Lettings....but we have use of it for 4 weeks of the year. We could probably have more but sadly we are both working and do not have the time. So we let our family and friends use it as we own half of another 3 bed apartment, so we co-ordinate the 2 weeks that we use it in May and then again in September.
I am aware that they are very strict on who is staying in the apartments, and that is fair enough - I was told the Police have even been on Sunset, checking. But I was just going to give the details of who was staying in our apartment to Aqua Lettings.
I just thought it's silly not to capitalise on it as it is just sitting there empty.
Diane
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Nice to know you're happy with Aqua, but are you registered or not, you didn't actually say one way or t'other :)
JF
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I personally am not registered with anyone as Aqua manage both the apartments for me.
So, if someone did rent it for that week, I would just give the renter's details to them to put through their system.
Couldn't be bothered with that side of things, just want to holiday when abroad!!! ;)
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Not sure it works like that - you NEED to be registered personally. They can look after the admin and coming and goings but it is you who is responsible - Aqua won't be liable for any fines on your property rentals.
You do need to check you are definitely registered - the fines are brutal.
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I can here the sound of very loud alarm bells ringing............
You should assume that you cannot now let a property in Turkey without some type of legal letting contract, personal registration or tax registration or a combination of these.
It may have changed since last year, but the situation certainly was that the Property Owner had to register with the Police. The property would then be listed on the Police database and a PIN code was issued to allow on line guest registration. The PIN could be used by a third party with the relevant soft ware and appropriate internet connection.
If you have not done this the Management Agency cannot be registering guests on line. I am not sure if they would be able to do it in person. ( But how can they register guests to a property if it is not on the database ? ).
If your name is on the Tapu you are responsible for ensuring the relevant legal requirements are in place - it is you that will be fined, not the Management Company.
Please, please check the situation as a matter of urgency and seek more advice ( and do NOT take the word of the Management Company )
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Just a question on this. I thought that the regulations only relate to "short term rentals", and I thought that an owner could enter into a "long term rental agreement" (3 months or more) with an agency, and then that agency could then deal with any short term rentals, and they would be responsible for complying with the regulations.
That would seem to make sense, but it was hear say, so may not be accurate.
I am sure there are those on here that will know the facts of the matter.
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You are right David - a long term rental contract as you describe is possible.
But it requires a formal contract, tax has to be paid ( by someone ) on the proceeds of the contract, and you would have to pay to stay in your own property during the period that the contract covers.
The Management Company would carry out the guest registrations - but they can only do this if the property is registered in the first place.
Although a contract would define the responsibilities of the Management Company any fine for transgression of the registration process would be levied against the property owner. You could then try to recover the amount from the Management Company .............
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Hi Phil,
I will check out what you are saying with Aqua when we are over there on the 16th....
They are very strict on wanting the details of any family or friends that we let stay in our apartment whilst we also, are holidaying there. They ask for their passport details, so we scan them and send via an email before we go.
They manage quite a few properties, so hopefully are fully aware of what's now required to let.
Diane
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That all sounds good and as it should be.
Hope that all checks out and there is nothing to worry about.
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There is no change about the rules since last year. Everything is same.
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The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties. It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will. What next?
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The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties. It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will. What next?
Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.
I guess the hotels are happy though.
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The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties. It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will. What next?
Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.
I guess the hotels are happy though.
Will they though?
Many people go to a place because their friend has a property there. It doesn’t mean they will automatically come to Calis/Fethiye.
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The new laws will certainly impact on many people who previously rented their properties. It seems that whilst this law was made in the interests of security, it is yet another thing that is making people think again about remaining in Turkey where new rules, regulations and laws can be introduce at will. What next?
Yes indeed. It has stopped us from allowing friends an family to use our place - even just for the price of electricity they use.
I guess the hotels are happy though.
Will they though?
Many people go to a place because their friend has a property there. It doesn’t mean they will automatically come to Calis/Fethiye.
Actually you have a point there. Many will probably just go elsewhere.
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If you register and are straight about the costs,sensible with pricing,your friends and family will still have cheap accommodation
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I think Stoop's main point is that he isn't looking to make a profit, just let family and friends stay if they cover the cost of the electricity etc.
His other point is that with all this registration and reporting of guests, he simply can't be ar$ed :D
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I think Stoop's main point is that he isn't looking to make a profit, just let family and friends stay if they cover the cost of the electricity etc.
His other point is that with all this registration and reporting of guests, he simply can't be ar$ed :D
Spot on!
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If you register and are straight about the costs,sensible with pricing,your friends and family will still have cheap accommodation
It's not just the registering though. It's the accountant (and their fees) to do your annual tax returns. For us, like Stoop, it's just not worth the hassle
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We registered and "went legal" last year and so far the whole thing has been hassle free and not hugely expensive.
If you used to say to your relatives and friends "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance" you could now say "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance AND pay registration costs, VAT and tax" the difference would not be massive and they would still be getting a cheap holiday.
There is not really any hassle at all.
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Good post Phil.
So how much do you charge your Auntie Jeanie for a week in the sun, just the registration element?
JF
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The phrase "you can stay in our villa if you pay a contribution towards the electric and pool maintenance" has never been one I have used.......................
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Ha ha, me neither. But, many on here do - if you were one of these less generous individuals, how much would you lump on to Auntie Jeanies bill for the week?
JF
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The amount I would charge would depend on whether she was staying with Uncle Albert in a two bed apart in May ( not much aircon use) or if she was bringing her daughter and son in law with two teenage grand children and staying in a 3 bed Villa in July ( loads of aircon ) and was then going to leave a massive pile of laundry.
But to give a more helpful answer, we put our prices up by £50.00 / week and with the help and advice of the accountant we are probably covering the extra costs with a few quid to spare.
However ................... I am still waiting to see if there are any further taxes which are effectively paid in arrears.
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Ok, so effectively the extra charge to friends/family to cover registration, tax and accountants fees is approximately £50 per week?
I know a lot of folks have decided not to register because of the extra expense, I was hoping that your experience may help other make an informed decision. At £50 a week, I think I know what some will do... :)
JF
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So based on £50 per week how many weeks do you need to rent in order to pay the costs?
Or maybe a better question - how many weeks do you expect to rent out your place?
Because if we only let friends and family stay a couple of times a year - say four weeks - I can’t see that covering the cost of registering, etc.
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Agreed with you Stoop - just not worth it. My family and friends would have spent a lot of money in the local economy but all that has been lost
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Hi Phil, we registered last year but as yet haven't had any friends or family stay. How would we go about registering with tax? My brother-in-law is an accountant and says he can do it but do you do per year or per holiday stay? Thanks
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I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. If you can't provide proof of bookings they will base the value on their own estimate of what you may have earned in "rent" during those years.
I pass this on to you without any knowledge of its' veracity but before the accusations of rumormongering start let me just say that the person who told me this is Turkish, in a position to know what is going on and so far has proved to be both accurate and reliable.
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Sounds perfectly plausible, once people register it would make sense for them to assume that this isn't the first year they will be earning an income from renting - like shooting fish in a barrel for the Turkish taxmen.
I learned that the taxman is more feared than the police in Turkey and if they say you owe x amount you have two choices - pay it, or reject the number and pay the higher number they then pluck from nowhere.
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I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. If you can't provide proof of bookings they will base the value on their own estimate of what you may have earned in "rent" during those years.
I pass this on to you without any knowledge of its' veracity but before the accusations of rumormongering start let me just say that the person who told me this is Turkish, in a position to know what is going on and so far has proved to be both accurate and reliable.
Reason #999 ;-)
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Or maybe a better question - how many weeks do you expect to rent out your place?
This question had me diving for the spread sheets .......
Based on OUR situation and costs I reckon 8 weeks a year is enough to cover costs. ( which we normally easily achieve)
I could see how for other properties and costs that the number of weeks could be less ( or more).
The point I cannot emphasise enough is that the whole thing does not involve bother or hassle. Everything is very simple.
In fact, I am now more relaxed that we are totally legal than I was before the Registration Process was introduced.
At least now I don't have to worry that a disgruntled neighbour might report me to the Tax Office.
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How would we go about registering with tax?
You submit the appropriate form to the Tax Office. A few days later they come to the property - principally to make sure that it exists. You are then issued with your Tax Registration Certificate with Tax number.
( Things have obviously changed because at one time you could not complete the Police Registration with out the Tax Number).
Once you have your Tax Number you can get your first book of Official Invoices Printed ( Fatura ). You will need to complete one of these for every guest.
You then need a Notarised copy of your passport and signature and you open a Notarised Account Book.
We also gave our Accountant a Power of Attorney.
A VAT form is submitted every month ( even if there are no guests ) and there is a tax form to be completed every quarter and then at the end of the year.
It all sounds complicated - but it isn't - and our accountant did everything. He charges us 130TL every month to do everything for us.
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I've been told that once you have registered with the Polis your details are automatically sent to the tax people and not only will they tax you on any future stays but they can also charge you backdated tax for up to 5 years. .
This is pretty much correct. The Tax Office is already checking that they have a matching Tax Return for every Police Registration.
If you have not registered for Tax they will issue an Assessment from the date of Police Registration. This process has already begun and assessments have been sent.
They are also sending Assessments to any owners that were issued with fines for non-registration during the course of last year.
Like any Tax Authority in the world they do have the power to investigate you for previous years (In England it's seven years).
However, if you have registered and paid all your taxes during the course of last year they have unofficially sort of declared an amnesty on previous years activities.
If you decide to argue with any assesments, fines, penalties etc they have the five year rule to invoke and it's a big stick to beat you with.
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How would we go about registering with tax?
Another issue that can make a difference to the Tax Registration is the number of names on the Tapu
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I assume that one name is easier (less expensive?) than two?
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One name is certainly easier than two. We have two names on our Tapu, but this was not a massive / expensive issue to deal with.
There seem to be a few ways of dealing with multiple names on the Tapu, and at this point I feel my alleged "expertise" runs out.