Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Anne on February 20, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
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I am very much on the fence with this one and what Mr Cameron brought to the table this morning has not helped me decide either way.
I'd be interested to see what others think?
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out! We want our country back.
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Not on the fence here. Out. As for Cameron I hope he is out to by resigning if the vote is Out which I hope it is. As thinwhiteduke said. We want out country back.
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Well Anne, I suppose somebody had to post a poll sooner or later; I think CBF members have done well to delay it this long. Four months of squabbling ahead - oh dear. Typical of Cameron to decide to hold the vote when I'm in Turkey so I'll have to go to the bother of arranging a postal vote. I don't suppose voting on CBF counts, does it?
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I am absolutely sure I am undecided
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If you'd asked me a few weeks ago I would have probably said to stay in, but I've just voted undecided because I really want some hard facts about the benefits, or not, of staying in Europe before I make a decision. Haven't yet had much time to have a look at the deal the Cameron has done but will do later today.
Ask me again in June and I'll hopefully have made up my mind : :)
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The problem is when we went into Europe we voted for a COMMON MARKET to help and boost trade, what we have now is a United States of Europe. The younger generation have known no different and they are the ones likely to keep us in with their vote, unfortunately a large amount of those that made the original vote have shuffled of this mortal coil
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I don't know how the UK managed before the EU came along and sucked us in. The latest "negotiations" have been part Drama
part Pantomime. They can't even decide on their positions in the never ending group photo's. No accountancy company in the
world has been prepared to sign off the EU's annual accounts as being a true and honest record, because of the amount of
fraud and corruption contained within them. The EU is crumbling and we don't need to go down with them. The threats made by
EU "leaders " against the UK if it's citizens vote democratically to leave speaks volumes about their true feelings about us.
Just my opinion.!! :)
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In the 1975 referendum I voted against the EC and found myself on the losing side (by a long way). Over the years since then I have come to view my vote then as mistaken and am now solidly in support of staying in. I am getting the feeling that I might be on the losing side again. But in 1975 opinions changed markedly over the last few months as companies began explaining the impact of leaving the EC would have on their business - and on their employees jobs. So things may still change a lot before June.
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I have the feeling that the result will come from people's perception of effect on immigration if we are in and out, rather than their perception of effect on business.
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I think you might be right Scunner. Many people seem to think that leaving the EU will solve the "problem" of migration - despite successive governments' failure to cut non-EU migration. It may come down to a question of how much economic damage people are prepared to accept in pursuing the goal of reducing migration. At least Farage is honest enough to say that the political benefits of leaving (as he sees them) will come at an economic cost (which he is prepared to pay).
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I've been saying it for months that the referendum will swing on migration, which Colwyn rightly points out will not be a very nuanced view of migration, as it will include non EU migration too. Mind you many people are rightly going to point to the EU border policy causing the non EU migration problem, so perhaps the EU does stand in the dock on both those issue?
Whatever people may think of him Farage will be the decisive figure in the Out campaign - not Gove or Johnson as is being portrayed in the press today - and he will play both the migration and border issues as his trump cards. He will say he has been open and consistent on these issues. And it will be difficult for any Tory or indeed Labour or Lib politician to challenge him on these issues, given this and previous governments record on these two key interrelated issues.
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Farage, Gove and Galloway sharing a bed.
Not sure I can - or even want to - picture that.
I've been in and out so many times I'm just doing the "hokey - cokey" 'til the dust settles.
As much as the EEC is the biggest global trading bloc we don't actually have to be "in" it to continue trading, do we?
I suspect that Boris officially throwing his weight behind an "out" campaign will sway many people (breaking news....).
I don't know enough to make a decision about which I feel fully confident.
We pay the seemingly more knowledgeable politicians to decide this stuff.
Whatever the outcome, are they not abrogating their responsibilities by even going to a referendum?
Even the media are at odds with each other - tv and newspapers.
Let's just be the 51st state of America and put our trust in Mr Trump.
Deep joy.....
(I think most of my family are concerned with the wholesale price of beef and lamb at the livestock market - with a "bugger them, what do we need these yer Europeans for"?).
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Love him or loathe him I think he will have a big impact on the leave campaign. I think he is a decent politician and has put
his beliefs before his career, If the stay vote wins he knows Tory leaders will shun him.
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I strongly suspect you're right, Kevin.
It's a massive, hammer blow to Cameron who must be in tortures over this.
Boris just doesn't seem to generate the "loathe" feeling in people.
He's far from being the "bumbling oaf" of which he is often accused - and despite his privileged background, he's still viewed as a "man of the people" (which, of course, he isn't).
It'll be interesting to see just how vocal he will be over this. He said it was only after a great deal of soul - searching that he reached this decision and how much he hurts over this seeming act of disloyalty to the leader of his party.
Et tu Boris.
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The Norway option, anyone?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/16/eu-exit-norway-option-costs-thinktank
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he's still viewed as a "man of the people" (which, of course, he isn't).
What? Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson not a man of the people! A chap who has been to Eton and Oxford and been a member of the Bullingdon club - just like Dave Cameron and Gideon Osborne. He's one of the boys! Johnson for Prime Minister in the autumn and Trump for President! Grand prospect, eh?
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By golly, I'm surprised I didn't bump into Boz during my formative years. His educational history mirrors mine almost perfectly.
I too went to skool.! Well sometimes I did. ;)
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Well if things carry on like this we won't have to worry about holidaying in Turkey - or anywhere else for that matter - as the pound drops like a stone on Brexit fears. I may have to settle for an ice cream on the prom at Weston-super-Mare. Perhaps it won't rain.
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I shall just say nil points... You can tell how popular we are with our "European friends" watching the voting in The Euro vision... They don't like us any more than we like them. Germany and France and Italy voted against joining The EU but didn't get a say.. just my opinion of course.
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They don't like us any more than we like them.
Well, if they like us as much as I like them, they'll like us a lot.
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Spent time in all those places over the years - working and for holidays.
The people I have met have been warm, welcoming and friendly.
I've made some lovely friends and stay in contact with a fair few - particularly during sporting events where there is the usual banter 'cos nobody likes the English when it comes to sport.
They weren't nice to me just because I had tourist money and was paying for their hospitality.
They're all pretty much like "us" but on a different diet.
Crafty little perishers in one respect - they have a different word for everything to confuse me.
The governments seem to be the problem - we/they then seem to revert to "stereotype".
Funny old world.
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If we come out of Europe, what continent would we be in? I'm no fan of Brussels but I don't want to be in Asia or anything.
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How about the continent of Great Britain :D
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" The Disunited Kingdom " ???
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If we come out of Europe, what continent would we be in?
Atlantis.
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Micheal Gove has this morning stated that the "cast iron deal "that Cameron is trying to sell us can be over ruled at any time
by the European Court of Justice because it is not enshrined in the Treaties. The Court stands above ALL nations, so what is
Cameron's deal worth.?
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Well I am enjoying the campaign so far. On Wednesday Iain Duncan Smith {do you remember him? he used to be a nobody ... and still is} dismissed a Government report as a "dodgy dossier". Then he described the Government approach as spin, smears, and threats that amount to bullying. Today he complains about the "acrimonious manner" of the Government and warns that this could do damage to the Government. What damage a dodgy bunch of spinning, smearing, threatening bullies? Surely not! Ho ho ho, what a hoot!
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More and more prominent EU spokespeople are making more and more threats to the people of the United Kingdom
if they DARE to vote democratically to leave the EU. That in itself is good enough reason to get out quick.
They need our money, and in times of trouble they need someone who doesn't wave a white flag, to get them out of the sh#t.
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Trying scare tactics like The French will let all the asylum seekers through the borders without checks is more likely to put my back up and vote leave..
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out. make our own rules. good or bad sod brussels
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Most people I've spoken to haven't made their minds up yet but do appear to be leaning out of the window rather than in at the moment.
Out for me! I'm sick of Europe at the minute. It costs far too much for what it achieves.
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If only things were straightforward...
A success for the "out" campaigners would almost certainly trigger a fresh independence referendum in Scotland, assuming the majority north of the border voted to stay in. A recent MORI poll for The Scotsman newspaper suggested that only 26% were in favour of leaving Europe, 12% undecided and 62% to remain part of the EU.
The figures quoted indicated that 54% of Scots would vote yes, if a fresh referendum was called. From what I've seen and heard recently, from those who vigorously opposed independence last time round, I think 54% is a bit on the low side.
Interesting times ahead.
JF
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That completes the nightmare scenario John: Britain leaves the EU; Scotland leaves the UK; and the rest of us are condemned to Old Etonian Tory authoritarian rule in perpetuity. Job rights abolished, 60 hour working week imposed, zero hour contracts for all manual workers, teenagers to pay boss for permission to come to work.Will my friendly, happy Polish neighbours be replaced by angry, bitter Brits who have been thrown out of their jobs in EU countries because free movement of labour no longer covers UK citizens? I'd have to consider emigrating to Scotland - if they'll have me - but I think I'm too rooted in the West Country.
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I'd have to consider emigrating to Scotland - if they'll have me - but I think I'm too rooted in the West Country.
As a current resident your lad could mibbe bring you in on a family or dependent visa. You'd have to wear the dark blue at the rugby though :)
Alternatively, there is always: West of England proposes ambitious devolution deal worth £2bn to economy (http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/news/ambitious-devolution-deal) Devolution, it's the first step.
JF
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The CBF poll is significantly different from the polls being taken of the UK population as a whole. Currently the CBF poll shows a strong majority for OUT whereas UK polls show IN a sliver ahead but too close to call with Don't Know/Don't Care with the balance of power. This comes as no surprise to me. As soon as Anne posted a vote I thought that OUT would sweep the vote on CBF. I couldn't say why I thought this. I guess those who favour OUT may think it shows that CBF members have superior intelligence and judgement; those who incline to IN could have a different view.
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After reading the news that Turkey wants Billions of euros before even considering any negotiations on the stopping the migrants to enter Turkey makes you wonder what is Turkey all about. Seems that there is not a lot of difference between Russia's objectives and their own.Just my opinion.
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My choice is purely my own Colwyn, CBF has no influence. I think it's a tad patronising to think our views would be based on anyone one person on CBF.
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The public polls on whatever subject always amuse me... I have never been asked for my opinion on anything but the papers seem to assume that everyone has been asked for one.
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Ed Milliband believed the polls, to the extent that he asked the Camerons to vacate No 10 within 48 hours of the Election.
I believe he is still trying to remove the egg from his face. Pollsters eh.!!
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So Scotland would vote to leave the UK so they could vote to be ruled by Europe?
Could they actually afford to do so with the current price of oil?
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My choice is purely my own Colwyn, CBF has no influence. I think it's a tad patronising to think our views would be based on anyone one person on CBF.
No, no, I didn't mean that at all. I was merely saying that the CBF poll diverges considerably from the UK polls. I don't suggest that membership of CBF would effect the way people voted - that would be silly. We can't even say that the poll represents the views of CBF members as a whole. Perhaps those who are likely to take part in a poll have different opinions from those who ignore it or chose not to take part.
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Crystal ball time, Donnie in the White House, UK out of EU and Scotand independent, win win I say. Of course Scotland would need to apply to join EU and is not an auto shoe in. Strange times we live in
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Donnie in the White House, UK out of EU and Scotand independent, win win I say.
You have a most peculiar sense of humour.
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Nearly there watch this space. Our little friend in the high heels already promoting another leave uk for Scotland, good luck to her and all those who want that out come.
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Eck,(Alex Salmond) has said this evening that Scotland could take the U.K's place in the E.U.
Eck has spoken.
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Eck is a bigger bum than ten ar$es
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And who will fund Scotland. As Wales already asking for Barnet formula to be looked at. With no let up in the Saudia Arabia reducing the pumping of oil and America with plenty of shale gas. I don't see a dramatic increase in North Sea oil prices for some years. I don't think Scotland would be able to afford it, as a high percentage of workers in Scotland work for central government, if they leave those will move south perhaps to the northern counties of England or perhaps to Wales. With a new currentcy/ tax / army etc to sort out. I say go for it, or as our cousins across the pond would say " suck it up".also worth considering would be a new labour leader, if only the unions hadn't spiked David millibands gun, and the £3 pound members hadn't elected a commie. Interesting times
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I wonder what kind Europe they would be joining?
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The pressure on the euro burocrates will be that they need to punish the British for having the temiraty to vote out, and they need to act fast as other EU countries feel the pressure from parties who will claim" that their people should be given the same choice as GB gave its people" this will strike a cord with many from both left and right of politics. As the second largest net contributior to EU budget pulls out, who will fund all the promises made by the leaders of the net gainers in EU land, that's the real pressure on punishing us quickly. I think the media hasn't help stabilise the country and are only to willing to talk this great country of ours down.
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Our little friend in the high heels already promoting another leave uk for Scotland, good luck to her and all those who want that out come.
She may be little and wear high heels, but she is currently the only leader of a major UK political party who's job is secure and who's party is not in disarray.
Just saying...
JF
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Which one's the Crankie ?
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/KayaKoyuWalker/Sturgeon.jpg)
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Blimey Wayne Rooneys hair transplant has come on a bit. ;) ;D
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Spotted elsewhere, and duly pinched:
So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.
Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.
Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.
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Yep! That just about sums it all up. Madness! ;D
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Well, whoever thought this one up just about got it in one! In other words - a bloody mess! >:(
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So Dave was knifed in the back by Boris, but then Boris was knifed in the back by Michael who thus knifed himself in the back and so Theresa can step over the dead bodies and become the next PM without any public vote. That's called "getting our sovereignty back", for which 52% of folk voted last week.
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Heseltine Savages Johnson
If you like Tory infighting, you'll enjoy this:
"Lord Heseltine told BBC Radio Five Live: "I have never seen anything like it. He's ripped the Tory party apart, he has created the greatest constitutional crisis in peacetime in my life.
"He's knocked billions off the value of the savings of the British people. He's like a general who marches his army to the sound of the guns and the moment he sees the battleground he abandons it.
"I have never seen anything like it and he must be answerable for the consequences. But the pain of it will be felt by all of us and, if it doesn't get resolved shortly, by a generation yet to come."
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Comment by BBC commentator: "More knives than a series of Masterchef".
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Nigel Farage has won himself a following in Malaysia it would seem:
(http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p677/davidjcollins/puki_zpszx6hpdf8.png) (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/davidjcollins/media/puki_zpszx6hpdf8.png.html)
Those who are easily offended should definitely not use Google Translate to find out the English version of the Malay words "Faraj" and "Puki".
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Yep, those Malays have got it spot on.