Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Residency in Turkey, Visas, Work Permit Questions => Topic started by: DonM on January 06, 2015, 20:12:11 PM
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Does anybody know what the latest is on the 120 day rule on RP's issued after 11 April 2014. http://www.yellali.com/advice/question/303/the-new-120-day-residence-permit-rule-does-this-apply-to-me-turkey it does "can be" cancelled
It will rule out turkey for us if it's implemented.
Don M
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My friend was out of Turkey for 5 months last year but thought she was ok as still had a year and half to run on current permit. in view of what happened to me she asked her turkish partner to go to harbour police and check she was ok to come back this month still. he was told no,her permit has been cancelled and she has had to buy an e visa. He was also told they may not let people into the country now with current permit time left to run if they had 120 days out in 2014, unless they had an e-visa so it isn't looking good at present. Good luck to anyone wanting to still chance it, you may or may not be lucky depending on the mood at airport i guess
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Well that's different from what the law ststes, but beeing Turkey any thing can happen
"The 120 day rule applies to new residence permits only. (for those issued after 11th April 2014)
120 day rule
A Residence permit issued after 11th April 2014 can be cancelled if you spend more than 120 days outside of Turkey. (Applicable to both first time Residence permit applications & renewals)
*According to the new law on foreigners - Law No.6458, you will not be able to renew a residence permit once it has been cancelled. *YellAli is currently awaiting confirmation whether or not this will be enforced."
I will see our solicitor on Monday and try and get an answer, but once again beeing Turkey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just read the link you provided (thankyou) and if it's right mine should not have been refused as old one was issued 2012. Will call consulate on Monday to see if they can help
Have just been reading through the rules the harbour police are going by and Article 33 (c) are what they are looking at :
http://goc.gov.tr/files/files/YUKK_I%CC%87NGI%CC%87LI%CC%87ZCE_BASKI(1)(1).pdf
Refusal, non-renewal or cancelation of short-term residence permits
ARTICLE 33 –
(1) Under the following cases a short-term residence permit shall not be
granted, shall be cancelled if has been issued, and shall not be renewed
when:
a) one or more of the conditions provided for in Article 32 are not met or
no longer apply;
b) it is established that the residence permit is used outside the purposes
of those it is issued for;
c) [the foreigner] lived outside of Turkey for longer than one hundred
and twenty days in total during the preceding year;
ç) there is a current removal decision or an entry ban to Turkey in respect
to the foreigner.
I cant find anything reference permits issued before April 2014, any idea where Yelali got this info from?
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I can't help with quoting any specific source but I am absolutely sure I read somewhere that the 120 days only applied to the new-style residence permits from April 2014 and that those with the old blue book weren't affected until it ran out (and they then got the new cards).
That said.....we all know it depends on who you get and how they feel at the time.... :( : :)
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Yes, Yelali have put : The 120 day rule applies to new residence permits only. (for those issued after 11th April 2014)
120 day rule
A Residence permit issued after 11th April 2014 can be cancelled if you spend more than 120 days outside of Turkey. (Applicable to both first time Residence permit applications & renewals)
*According to the new law on foreigners - Law No.6458, you will not be able to renew a residence permit once it has been cancelled. *YellAli is currently awaiting confirmation whether or not this will be enforced.
I was hoping someone may know where they got this information from, if it's a government document I can print it off and include it with my appeal.
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Hi, if you are in Fethiye? Why don't you pop into the British Consulate office and have a word with Ahmet, the pro consul. I'm sure he will be able to give you some advice.
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Thanks Rimms, I wasn't even aware there was one in Fethiye, was told by someone I would have to go to Ankara??? Can you tell me where it is please so I can go tomorrow, guessing they won't be open on a Sunday :)
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No they are not open on Sunday and they do have restricted opening hours, Google British Consulate Fethiye for times. They are on the second floor of the Likya building. It's the building on the road where the main banks are and Burger King. If you can find DP perfumes which is on the ground floor of the Likya building. the entrance is in the side street, you will see a sign for dentist Çagatay Aras, go up to the second floor and use the door intercom. Good luck.
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This should help
https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-ankara/office/british-honorary-consulate-mugla
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Latest update for my situation. The 120 day rule article quoted on Yelali is probably not correct. It would be helpful if there was something in writing Yelali could direct us to as an official document. The harbour police today phoned Migration department for confirmation as I asked if it was implemented in April just for new permits. The 120 day rule applies to all previous permits bought before April 2014 also. :(
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Thank you for updating Hellzbellz, it's good to know although it doesn't help your situation of course.
:( >:(
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Thanks Hellzbellz,
If this is correct this will be our last full winter in Turkey. >:( >:( Did you visit the consul in Fethiye for advice?
It looks like 90 days here and 90 days elsewhere. I'm open to suggestions.
DonM
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Hi DonM,
yes I went to the Fethiye consul for advice. Have booked to go rhodes to get evisa to give myself breathing space. Have also been told I can apply for new one with evisa which seems a bit crazy, but have to abide by the rules here
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Here's another link that shows the old type RP's are still valid until their expiry date.
http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/component/content/article/67-residency-and-visas/373887-the-ktln-guide-to-obtaining-turkish-residency?directory=53
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It is very much a grey area. It says "What happens if you have an existing residence permit?
If you already have a residence permit that continues beyond 10th April 2014, this will continue to be valid, because you have applied for, and paid for residency, and permission has been granted by the Turkish authorities. You have got permission to reside in Turkey until the expiry date shown in your ikamet." but it also says " With short term residency, if you stay out of Turkey for more than 120 days, your residency permission will be cancelled.".
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Just reading and not sure whether the rule applies to 120 continuous days in any one period out of turkey or a total of 120 days out in a year, I assume it's annually?
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Yes it is 120 days in previous year total
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Our neighbours who are in the same position as us (6 month UK/6 month Turkey) paid a visit to the British consul in Fethiye. The 120 day rule is causing a lot of problems, the consul seems to think that moves are being made to resolve the complaints.
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yes I have heard that but it wont be in time to help me or many others this month or next. Tomorrow I am off to Rhodes for tourist visa (assuming ferry not cancelled again like it was on Tuesday) then will re-apply for year residency again. total cost of taxi, tickets and evisa around 700TL I should not have had to spend :(
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Good luck with the trip to Rhodes. We fly home on the 27th April so we still have 3 months remaining. I hope they get it sorted one way or another as at our age we can do without the worry.
We plan to return to Fethiye on the 30th October if nothing is sorted by then we will enter on a 90 day tourist visa and apply for RP's.
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Went to Rhodes, came back ok. Handed in evisa and passport but he also asked for my residence permit as showing still valid. Asked why I had an evisa to so I explained the situation. He said no problem, stamped passport and away I go. Now I am wondering though should he have stamped anything on the evisa or is the fact the date I last entered into turkey acceptable as after the date the evisa started? Have never used one before so don't know the procedure.
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It'll all be on their computer system.
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Our neighbours who are in the same position as us (6 month UK/6 month Turkey) paid a visit to the British consul in Fethiye. The 120 day rule is causing a lot of problems, the consul seems to think that moves are being made to resolve the complaints.
I was talking to your neighbours last night, DonM. As you are no doubt aware, they go back to the UK on Tuesday for a few weeks - they'told me they won't even bother trying to use their residence permit on their return, they'll just get an e-visa.
Hopefully this will make their re-entry as problem-free as Hellzbellz's.... but it also makes me wonder whether it's worth showing it as it sounds as though the guy she saw would have let her in on her RP.
So unclear.... :(
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Hellzbellz, glad to hear it all went well. Have sent you a PM.
Wordbird, According to Hellzbellz they asked for her RP aw well. So it must have shown up on the computer. Will have a word with J & T later.
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We are still on the old style blue book residencies. We were in UK for a total of 215 days in 2014 and when we came back via Istanbul on 5th January 2015 there was no problem.
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In most cases you don't have to show an e-visa or RP. As soon as your passport is scanned all visa and RP details together with previous entry and exit dates are visible to the passport officer.
Makes you wonder why the UK are still struggling to introduce a similar system.
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Just received this http://www.yellali.com/news/article/109/update-on-residence-permit-processes from Yell Ali.
‘120 day rule’
"According to Article 33 paragraph c of Law 6458 ‘Under the following cases a short-term residence permit shall not be granted, shall be cancelled if has been issued, and shall not be renewed when:
c) [the foreigner] lived outside of Turkey for longer than one hundred and twenty days in total during the preceding year’
This rule is now being applied to both short term residence permits issued after April 2014 (new style card) and those issued prior to April 2014 (old blue book style).
If you are out of Turkey for more than 120 days in the previous 12 month period your residence permit will be cancelled on re-entry to Turkey and you must obtain either an e-Visa, or visa on arrival, to cover your stay until you wish to reapply for a residence permit.
You will be able to apply for a new residence permit immediately following cancellation of your existing one.
We have been made aware that there are inconsistencies in application of this rule dependant on the port of entry-this information has been passed to the DGMM."
If I've read it correctly our RP will be cancelled when we return in October as we will have been out of Turkey for more than 120 daqys. Entering with a 90 visa we should be able to get a RP for a year.
Don
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I was allowed to get new residency today but had to pay 40TL for being a day late even though I had evisa. Apparently I should have waited for current permit to expire(which was yesterday) before getting evisa but I got mine last week and went to rhodes for day. whatever, I can now rest easy again as have new residency.
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What I would like to know that if you are unfortunate as to have your residency cancelled what happens if you have,
SGK
A landline
A mother vehicle
Own a property.
As I understand you need to have a RP to have any of the above. So you could be in a position of being unable to sell your property I vehicle, and having your health cover cancelled.
Also if your RP is cancelled when you reapply are your given new kimlik numbers? Which again would have rall sorts of repercussions if you have any of the above.
It seems that once again the authorities have totally failed to think this through.....
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:( >:( :( The mind boggles,Philrose.
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BTW that should be motor not mother vehicle :)
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This is our report on latest developments: http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/kalkan-news/412047-turkish-residency-rules-update-january-2015 (http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/kalkan-news/412047-turkish-residency-rules-update-january-2015)
Very unsettling indeed.
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Lots of topics on residency permits but with the right to immediately reapply on cancellation, does it mean those wanting to stay for 6 months can buy a visitor visa on arrival then a 1 year RP and repeat each year? I don't know how much the process costs but visa cost would be 20 USD plus 250TL for the 1 year RP.?
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you can have a 6 month RP if you want it.
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Lots of topics on residency permits but with the right to immediately reapply on cancellation, does it mean those wanting to stay for 6 months can buy a visitor visa on arrival then a 1 year RP and repeat each year? I don't know how much the process costs but visa cost would be 20 USD plus 250TL for the 1 year RP.?
This is what we hope to do. Arrive in Oct on a tourist Visa (90 days) and then apply for a one year RP. Then go home in May and start the process again when we return the following Oct. That's the plan but this being Turkey :) :) :) :) :)
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you can have a 6 month RP if you want it.
Could you post the details please? :)
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You can have a Residence Permit for as little as 1 day and in multiples of months i.e 2,3,4,5......months.
http://www.expatguideturkey.com/residence-permits/
http://www.expatguideturkey.com/work-and-residence-permit-fees-for-2014/
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I think that is old information. Following the recent rule changes I believe there are four types of residence permit that would affect the majority of us.
Short Term - 1 year
Long Term - Available after 8 years of permanent residence and expires 2099
Family - Married to a Turkish National
Student - Student
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Apologies if this update I saw today had already been posted
http://www.yellali.com/news/article/109/update-on-residence-permit-processes
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This is very disappointing and expensive news for my wife & I. We typically spend 18-20 weeks in Turkey. We have nearly 4 years left on our blue book, and we have flights booked for ourselves and family/friends for a period that this law will now prohibit us from using our residency permit for in October.
Does anyone know if your start date for a eVisa has to be your first day in Turkey? It may sound like a strange question, but even allowing for the fact that the 90/180 rule is a rolling requirement, if our start date for our eVisa was a few weeks before our next visit late in April, it would allow us to get another eVisa in early October and accommodate ours & family/friends October visit.
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I may be wrong but I believe you can start the e visa whenever you like and you can even start a second one before the first one has expired. However the real "test" that you must apply is this:
From when you start using your 90 / 180 tourist visa's - the golden rule is to count backwards 180 days on the day that you enter Turkey and if the number of days you have spent in Turkey exceeds 90 you will not be allowed entry and when you leave Turkey they will count back 180 days and if you have spent more than 90 of those days in Turkey you will be fined.
Consequently it is the counting back more than planning visa's to start immediately after one another that is the most important point and often not understood.
This might help
http://www.bodrumbulletin.com/community/calculators/turkish-tourist-visa-calculator (http://www.bodrumbulletin.com/community/calculators/turkish-tourist-visa-calculator)
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Thank you Ian.
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Coincidentally this was posted elsewhere today which covers the same point by someone who e mailed the visa site:
Your question: If I have an existing E visa which runs out part way through a projected visit to Turkey can I get another E visa which covers the whole period but overlaps with the existing E visa and effectively supercedes the existing one or do I have to leave Turkey on the last day of the old E visa and return the next day on the new one; something which is not easy to do.
Dear Alan,
Your stay in Turkey can not be longer than your e-Visa permits. We advise you to renew your e-Visa before your arrival. The key rule is that you do not exceed 90 days of stay within the last 180 days as of today. Please note that it is your own responsibility to make sure that you do not violate the above mentioned 90/180 rule.
Best wishes, Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Turkey
This would suggest that getting overlapping E visas is not a problem
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These constant changes/uncertanies etc appear to happen year after year. It seems little wonder, compared to say 5-10 years ago, when on this forum there were never ending topic/posts of buying property and the best shop, place or whatever, for this, that, who to use and so on, as I/we can't wait to move there. I'm sure Keith has facts and figures about this, as there does appear to be less and less Brits and possibly others, not wanting to purchase property or move to Turkey. More so, the amount of people who have either sold up, going to sell up or simply just return on a tourist visa for holidays, myself included, as I returned to near full time to the uk last year. Unfortunate to say (no doubt!) with the exchange rate as it is, many losses will be/have been made on selling up, but very good for just a tourist. Will we now see fewer flights to Turkey this year and costing more, or lucky enough that so many seats on planes will not be sold and end up at a good price!
However, I don't think too many people will actually be advising and promoting Turkey to be the wonderful country it once was, to move/retire to.