Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Olu Deniz Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Jacqui Harvey on June 07, 2015, 05:50:14 AM
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Went to the King's Garden last night and sat beside a couple staying at the Montebello Resort in Olu. They both were wearing yellow wrist tags with the Hotels name on them??? Apparently, they have to keep them on all the time, to get in and out and also to eat at the restaurants in there.
In conversation with them, it seems their resort is very remote. They have been out of it a few times, but is seems only trips booked in the Hotel. They had no idea that there were private lagoon beaches in Oludeniz, knew nothing of Calis or Fethiye. However, they had booked a trip to go to "a market" in Fethiye on Tuesday. We explained that they could easily just get a dolmus into Fethiye and do the trip themselves... What is a dolmus? was the next question. The Hotel had booked them a trip to Pammukale which they seemed to like. They told us about going to a carpet factory where they said it was very pushy and prices for a carpet started at £6,000.
They had been into Oludeniz and said people in restaurants ignored them when they saw their yellow wrist bands.
I thought it very sad to stay at a sanitised place like this Hotel and not know what the real Turkey outside the walls was really like. They even remarked to us that the thought Turkey was expensive as their holiday from London cost more than other countries they had visited. We told them they could book Hotels in the area for as little as £13.00 per night and they were stunned. :o :(
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It just shows you how gullible people are!
There is no doubt that these AI resorts do have there uses for a lot of customers e.g. couples and especially lone parent families etc, but equally for a lot of customers they are nothing but a 5 star open prison camp whose inmates can be let out on day release on certain days! Yellow wristbands that have to worn at all times? What? Did they think they were electronic tagging devices?
Unfortunately, these people who have had holidays in such places, often return to the UK with a very skewed impression of Turkey. They think such resorts ARE Turkey!
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The problem with a lot of all inclusives is that you could be anywhere in the world so long as it is hot you would know no different.
Interesting how they escaped to Kings Garden, its not like its the first place you would come across.
I hope you convinced them to escape again Jacqui and explore Olu.
We did a week in Belek last year before coming to Ovacik for a week. It was the first AI experience for us. I am not in any rush to experience another.
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What is the real Turkey like - is it Calis and Fethiye.
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What is the real Turkey like - is it Calis and Fethiye.
No, not even close - and personally, over the years I've only scratched the surface of the "real Turkey". But then again, it all depends on how an individual defines the "real Turkey".
JF
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The Montebello is hardly remote. It's at the bottom of the hill, just off the main road and just before you get to the 'hoşgeldiniz' arch.
But if people just blindly book a holiday somewhere and do not even do the slightest bit of research - check a map of the area etc - perhaps they get the holiday they deserve.
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What is the real Turkey like - is it Calis and Fethiye.
I was going to ask whether St Ives is the "real England" but then I realized it is not in England. Or to ask "Is Tenby the real Wales" only to remember it is in "Little England beyond Wales". Difficult this isn't it. What about "Is Dingwall the real Scotland" - not if you live in Glasgow I suppose, where it is like the picture you put on shortcake tins for the for the tourists. If asked about any holiday resort I would say, "It is and it isn't". Calis is in Turkey and is just as real as Kasimpasa - although Erdogan would probably disagree.
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Staying in a Resort and only booking trips through the resort and knowing nothing of the local area, or the real Turkey, which is anywhere away from the resort where you use your own brain to find things out... That is the real Turkey.
This couple had not been to Hisaronu and did not know anything about it, first trip to Fethiye, booked throught the resort that week. They asked us about Fethiye and Hisaronu.... Kakakoy was a total mystery to them.
Also, when they finished their starter, they just sat there. I said to them... "You can go up to the Rock Tombs" They said they wanted to do that and I told them just go. They waited aobut 15 minutes and then called over the waiter and asked could they go ot the tomb now. He said to them, that he told them before they could go, so what where they waiting for. They told him they thought he was going to take them !!! This is A.I. for you, being treated like a child, getting a wrist band and not knowing how to get around on your own.
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Forgive me Jacqui but surely you are not saying that Hisaronu is the real Turkey. :o
For the record, on our very first visit to Turkey we booked a visit to Pammukkle and Ephesus through our tour operator.
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I forgive you :) Finding out about anywhere locally without beng lead around by the nose is information that can then be collate. They don't know about any of the area they are staying in. We are just in Kakakoy now having a lovely relaxed lunch. Then up to Hissy for that great shop with all the Turkish Crafts... Hissy may be Blackpool with sun, but the informed travel knows how to disconcern....
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For the record, on our very first visit to Turkey we booked a visit to Pammukkle and Ephesus through our tour operator.
And us, well similar anyway. We went with the tour operator who had a stall outside out hotel.
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Kakakoy was a total mystery to them.
I can't think why !
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Oh dear, JH in trouble again. Never mind she'll pretend she did it deliberately as a windup.
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For the record, on our very first visit to Turkey we booked a visit to Pammukkle and Ephesus through our tour operator.
So did I H, went with a guide with an archeology degree, who was attached to Bodrum castle. Likewise did a guided tour of Konya & Cappadoccia. I believe that I got far more info, which I could relate to what I was seeing, than if I'd tried reading a guide book whilst walking around
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For the record, on our very first visit to Turkey we booked a visit to Pammukkle and Ephesus through our tour operator.
And us too! Nothing wrong with using tour operators for trips, especially when you are new to a country or particular area. I agree too that you often get much more information from a local guide who knows the area well than reading guide books. It's not just about being led around by the nose! Books can't always answer your questions!
It's easy to criticise people who don't yet feel brave enough to go off on their own in a new place when it's somewhere you've been visiting several times a year for donkey's years and know it almost like your own home town.
One of our stopovers on the way home from NZ in April was Hong Kong. We'd never been there before and didn't even know where to start sightseeing, despite all the maps and books we had. But fortunately there was a travel agent with an office in our hotel so we booked a half day trip round HK island. It was brilliant! A young lady was our guide, she'd lived there all her life. Never stopped talking about HK, was very amusing and entertaining. We were taken all round the island, had a ride in a sampan, saw so many places we just wouldn't have got to on our own. Well worth what we paid.
I don't like AI's for several reasons, one being that so many people just never leave the complex and many don't want to, and if they want to spend their money doing that then that's their business and it is a shame that they don't see any of the area where they are staying. But if they do venture out they may just get a feel for the place and decide on a next trip they they will see a bit more.
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Quite agree with comments on the value of an informed guide. When in Kapadokya (Goreme) we booked a tour with a local company to one of the underground cities and then on to walk down the Ilhara Valley (stunningly beautiful). Driving to the undergroud city the guide said "See the women sitting cross-legged at the side of the road? They are taking the seeds out of pomegranates to sell them to passers-by. Pomegranates are very important to the economy around here". Such a labour intensive task! How much could it possibly pay? How would I have found that out without a guide?
A few days later Hilary and I drove back to walk the second part of the Ilhara Canyon and stayed at Selima, the village at the bottom of the canyon.
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Well, the way I read the meaning of this thread was that it's not necessarily the big trips out from their hotels, to Ephesus, Capodoccia etc it's just exploring the local holiday area and getting a feel for the town/village/surroundings in which they are staying. I was introduced to a lady in UK who with her family had been holidaying for several years at Letoonia, yet had no idea what Paspatur was, nor had they seen or heard of the old Theatre in Fethiye. To me they were missing so much of local value. :-\
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At last, thanks Lotty so glad someone understands what I mean. It seems so simple to you and me.
Why should I be in trouble by stating the obvious ? It seems a lot of people on this forum like to pick faults where there are none.
I would say this couple where not shy or nervous. They also owned a house in India and had been around the world, but, they needed to be looked after because that is what they were used to.
We would book trips and did when we first came to stay at Letoonia and found the guides very helpful, but we did go out and about and did some research about the area, unlike a lot of people who stayed at Letoonia and never ventured out of the place.
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Interesting how they escaped to Kings Garden, its not like its the first place you would come across.
Believe it or not, dinner at Kings Garden is also a tour op excursion. I know this because we were there one April when two rottweillers from Thomas Cook were "negotiating" the deal. The most important part being how much per person they could make personally - from Kings Garden, not Thomas Cook.
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Yes, they booked in their Hotel for the Kings Garden. I noted the people from the Nevada that we picked up also had vouchers in their hands that they offered to Salih.
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Jacqui - I do hope that you don’t thinking I was “pick faults” just because I questioned some of the statements you made in your original post.
When I posted my response I was stating my opinion on a discussion forum which I assumed was permissible.
If people want to spend their hard earned pennies on an All-Inclusive holiday and spend all of their time lying by the pool sipping the local beverages and availing themselves of all the snacks on offer, then for me, that is their prerogative and theirs alone.
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I think roughly the same - and not just about AI. After years of scoffing at those who let a holiday shop sell them a package, when you can get your own flights, find a hotel and easily book transfers, I must admit I have grown to relove the package deal. We choose our package, everything is sorted by someone else, we just report to the airport and everything is taken care of. Of course I still do my own arrangements for our annual week in Turkey.
We tried Morocco and Tunisia, and this year it will be Mexico - all package and all AI. I would anticipate that this year will be the same. We enjoy the kids enjoying the AI and we get out and about to see the places that interest us (believe it or not we often do the Thomson trips - but also we get into town and book a few boat trips etc without their help).
We couldn't possibly live AI for the entire holiday - I find good restaurants and we go out a few nights - in fact in Morocco we booked a hotel for a couple of days and caught a bus at the bus station which was an adventure to say the least. We obviously still had the AI rooms so at times we had two hotels paid for, the adventure one and the AI one which was booked for the holiday duration. Whilst on adventures we were B&B so researched and ate out lunch & dinner - and fabulous it was too.
And that's the point, one I have made on here for years. Whether or not you like AI doesn't matter. If people who like AI come to Calis/Fethiye and venture out just once and buy one beer - it was better for Turkey that they chose there rather than Egypt or Morocco etc. Our first ever holiday in Turkey was AI andI think it is fair to say we have put a quid or two into the Turkish economy since.
It doesn't work in all cases though. On our (package) coach back to the airport I was earwigging and heard one chap asked a large family group of around 14 people if they'd gone on any of the trips, or visited the marina area. "Nah, we just like to do the pool thing when we go away - we don't go anywhere".
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We watched a programme on T.V. about the growth of A.I's in Spain. One local town was a Ghost Town all the restaurants empty and shops closing down, after the opening of so many A.I's in the area. The situation was so bad that Thomson's arranged a coach to take people into the town this was after a lot of complaints by local businesses.
So wandering into town to buy a cup of coffee may be difficult, if there is no town left.
Last week we spoke to a restaurant owner in Fethiye, one we all know. He told us that the new and latest A.I in the area had 15,000 beds which to him mean 15,000 who would not visit his restaurant.
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I forgive you :) Finding out about anywhere locally without beng lead around by the nose is information that can then be collate. They don't know about any of the area they are staying in. We are just in Kakakoy now having a lovely relaxed lunch. Then up to Hissy for that great shop with all the Turkish Crafts... Hissy may be Blackpool with sun, but the informed travel knows how to disconcern....
I'll figure this out eventually!!!
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This is not about people spending money on expensive All Inclusives. It is about people coming on holiday with no knowledge or research on where there are going. Even after staying in a resort for a week the people we met had no idea of the local area, what was there, what they could do. They had no inkling that they could actually go to a market themselves (without being taken to an expensive gold shop on the way back). They had no idea what they were looking at through the windows of the Kings Garden. They even expected the waiter to guide them up to the rock tombs.
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I forgive you :) Finding out about anywhere locally without beng lead around by the nose is information that can then be collate. They don't know about any of the area they are staying in. We are just in Kakakoy now having a lovely relaxed lunch. Then up to Hissy for that great shop with all the Turkish Crafts... Hissy may be Blackpool with sun, but the informed travel knows how to disconcern....
I'll figure this out eventually!!!
Perhap YOU would, but then we are not talking about you. We are talking about them :)
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Last week we spoke to a restaurant owner in Fethiye, one we all know. He told us that the new and latest A.I in the area had 15,000 beds which to him mean 15,000 who would not visit his restaurant.
That must be a misunderstanding since there are no hotels in the area with 15,000 beds. He most likely meant 1,500 beds.
I'm not a fan of AI but nowadays it's what a lot of tourists want.
At least bread will be baked for 1500 tourists, cocktails will be served, dishes needs to be done, bed sheets needs to be washed and ironed, etc etc.
Better AI tourism than no tourism at all.
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This is not about people spending money on expensive All Inclusives. It is about people coming on holiday with no knowledge or research on where there are going.
Yes I know it's not about that - and my point was nothing to do with people spending money on expensive all inclusives either. I have been to loads of places on holiday and had no clue about local attractions etc - in fact I (and the huge majority of others I would guess, if they could be honest) had next to no knowledge about Fethiye when we first came. Did you know about Xanthos, Pinara etc? Really?
That was my motivation to write www.fethiye.co.uk - the very fact that not only do people not know what is on the doorstep, but (at that time) there was nothing on the internet at all to show people what the area had.
But for the sake of saying the same thing again and hoping people will grasp the concept - my original point is that people who find Fethiye because it offered the best AI deal is still good news for Fethiye.
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Better AI tourism than no tourism at all.
Exactly!! Thank you Dutchie there are two people who think the same way :)
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This is not about people spending money on expensive All Inclusives.
Jacqui - your posts to date have been littered with references to A.i. and wrist bands which is why I have been responding asI have
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Sorry Dutchie meant 1500. There was no drink was being sold last night so I cannot blame that for my mistake :)
It is a proven fact that only 10% of the money made in A.I's goes into the local economic, people will say that is a good thing, but it does not equate to the large sums lost by the many local businesses who no longer get customers.
It is also not totally about A.I's but they seem to be a symtom of people who fly out to stay in them not finding out about the local area they are staying in.
I remember when I was a kid and my parents camped all over Europe, months before the holiday, they would have maps and tourists books and reference books from the library all over the table in the evenings and my Mother would made up a diary of notes on places and what to see and do.. This was long beore the internet. We have the net now and I find it odd that people still do not use it to do any research.
We met a couple last night who have stayed in Calis for the last 5 years running every year. We mentioned Kakakoy to them and the fact there was drink being sold there. They asked us was Kaka worth visiting? They heard the stones hurt you feet, so they did not bother. We explained it was more than just the ruins. It was a lovely villiage in a beautiful setting with some great places to eat. We even told them about the Istanbul with its pick up and drop off on Wednesday so they could have a taster.
However, they always go to the Talk of the Town on Wednesday !! so that was out :)
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Not my idea of a holiday being dropped in the kaka! :o
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it does not equate to the large sums lost by the many local businesses who no longer get customers.
But again you assume these AI people are people who would have previously have come and stayed locally in self catering or B&B type hotels. I don't think they are. I think they are people who, if they didn't come to Fethiye on AI, would book another destination AI.
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We booked A.I. when we first came to Fethiye, in fact we tried to get into Lykia World but it was full for our week of travel so we opted for the Letoonia. We like a bit of comfort and try to stay at good Hotels. This was our first A.I. and thought the resort looked lovely. It was lovely, but for us, there was something missing. I think it may have been different if we had young kids.
To us A.I. is just staying in a Holiday Camp, which basically that is what it is.
So, we may like comfort and luxury, but we are not A.I. or holiday camp people.
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Sorry Dutchie meant 1500. There was no drink was being sold last night so I cannot blame that for my mistake :)
Oh yes there was - you just had to know the 'real Turkey' to be able to find it! ;D :P
We have friends who, is they told you all the places they'd visited around the world would sound incredibly well-travelled.
However, all they do is book a Hilton or equivalent and spend their time lazing around the pool etc - they see and learn nothing of their destinations.
Not my choice, but it's what they like to do.
We stayed at the Oludeniz Resort Hotel the first time we came to the area, although we did spend a lot of time exploring etc.
I'm not a fan of AI - but for a new place, if the price is right, I can see the attraction as it's a 'safe' base while you find your feet.
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Having worked in hotels for the last 40 years I can tell you now that a 1500 bed hotel would be massive. My last one, the tallest in Qatar with 57 floors had some 700 keys. Some 300 of those were apartments. One, two and three bedrooms.
We only just topped 1500 beds.
I have not seen a building like that around here.
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I think someone's talking Kaka, again. ;)
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The present Mrs H has enjoyed All Inclusive holidays for years now ;).
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A scene this lunchtime which was not like the "real" Turkey of 18 years ago {when I first came here}. I was in a bar with an Efes and listening to the blues {where else would I be?}. Seven teenage Turkish girls came walking down the little street - one covered head to foot in dark material with headscarf, three in normal Western-style street clothes, and three in bikinis. The three in bikinis came in and went to the bar. After some chit-chat they went away carrying a 50cl tankard of draught beer. {I have no idea where they took it or why}.
How many times on this forum have I read people telling me that British women walking about, not near the beach, and going into bars dressed only in bikinis was offensive and an insult to Turkish people. This is in a resort where {I estimate} 95% of the visitors this year are Turkish. That's another bit of "real Turkey".
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We watched a programme on T.V. about the growth of A.I's in Spain. One local town was a Ghost Town all the restaurants empty and shops closing down, after the opening of so many A.I's in the area. The situation was so bad that Thomson's arranged a coach to take people into the town this was after a lot of complaints by local businesses.
So wandering into town to buy a cup of coffee may be difficult, if there is no town left.
Last week we spoke to a restaurant owner in Fethiye, one we all know. He told us that the new and latest A.I in the area had 15,000 beds which to him mean 15,000 who would not visit his restaurant.
I think that's probably got more to do with the recession. I know in Portugal, Portimao is virtually a ghost town and there isn't an AI in miles.
As for Fethiye - I think the fake bag salesmen have done a roaring trade from some of the Sensatori customers. Mind you I'm not sure much of that cash will make its way to the tax man ;)
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Having worked in hotels for the last 40 years I can tell you now that a 1500 bed hotel would be massive. My last one, the tallest in Qatar with 57 floors had some 700 keys. Some 300 of those were apartments. One, two and three bedrooms.
We only just topped 1500 beds.
I have not seen a building like that around here.
It is the Sensatori Jack. A resort. :) Take note Fernando Torries and Littlereddevil :)
Wordbird, we do know the real Turkey and had a few drinks at a restaurant yesterday lunchtime. We also know where we could have got drinks in last night and were invited to two places who were serving drinks. After drinking at lunchtime we just decided to go to the Main Street and have a meal at Brothers. It was a shame that the Zabita had been around and we heard some people had been fined.
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It was a shame that the Zabata had been around and we heard some people had been fined.
The Zabita were simply doing their jobs, we hear folks complaining loud enough when the belediye or Zabita don't do their jobs...
Those that got fined have only themselves to blame for getting caught - they know the rules and if they aren't smart enough to break them without getting caught then tough. There's usually a good few in Fethiye who manage to sell to tourists on polling days without issue.
JF
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You don't know the half John and I cannot print it here. However what we heard last night was shocking...mostly amounts asked and bars selling drink.
Personally, I canot see why drink cannot be sold?? Calis needs tourists and tourists are not voting, so why this rule? This is exactly what we heard last night.
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You mean the "amounts" the Zabita were asking, or what the bars were charging?
JF
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Jacqui - you mentioned the Sensatori Resort - where is it please
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Just passed Kooca Calis. It can be seen from the Letoon away in the distance.
http://www.thomson.co.uk/destinations/europe/turkey/turkey-dalaman/fethiye/hotels/sensatori-resort-fethiye.html
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You don't know the half John
I bet he does - and a lot more besides, a lot more than most people on here. The "drinking on election day" rule has been in place as long as I can remember. It certainly precedes Erdogan and the AKP, perhaps it goes back to the first Ataturk/Inonu constitution. I believe many other countries have the same rule. The purpose is to prevent alcohol-fueled violence on election day. But surely something like MHP supporters attacking the HDP office in Fethiye wouldn't happen, would it?
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Personally, I canot see why drink cannot be sold??
Because it's the law of the country you are a guest in ?
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As far as I'm aware its not a "rule" but a law, hence the ability to punish those who break the law - and yes, it has been about for years, but not as far back as Ataturk. He would never sign of on something like that, he liked the raki too much!
Its the YSK (the election board) who stipulate when and how long the ban is for - I think it ends up in the official gazette to make it a "law".
I'm fairly sure that the ban ended at 6pm in Istanbul last general election and I seem to remember one election (a good few years ago) where the bars in the Paspatur were all closed during the day but opened at 6 or 8pm and from then on it was business as usual.
Don't know what all the fuss is about, I mean its one day every two or three years. If someone is so desperate for a drink that its an issue, then they've got bigger problems to think about.
JF
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I have a confession to make.
I've been living in Fethiye for five years now (all year round) and have not been to Saklikent yet.
But I should get away with it since it's not "the real Turkey" :)