Cameron Saves City of London

[nichola]

So, the wording of a new treaty by March, consultations with parliaments, some sort of new institution to be set up - I thought this was a CRISIS

How many times have we heard the rhetoric and talk of solutions found immediately after yet another summit over the past few months only for it to become almost as immediately apparent that there is no consensus nor solutions.

You only have to listen to the derision in the voices of reputable newsreaders when they talk about yet another Last Chance Summit to know that these people are no more than a joke bumbling along reacting to a constantly changing situation which they apparently have no control over let alone any solutions for.

[Colwyn]

Some good points OPO. I meant the notion that Cameron had "saved" the City to be somewhat ironic. It is the light in which Tory spin doctors, Eurosceptics and Boris Johnson are putting on it. I doubt whether it achieves any benefit whatsoever for the UK; probably it merely infuriates our most important trading partners.

[Eric]

Interesting you should make the point of "..it merely infuriates our most important trading partners".  I found the following info quite interesting.  This is the most recent I could find.

Main export markets:
European Union 57%
United States: 15%
Switzerland: 2%
China: 2%
Japan: 2%

Main source of imports:
European Union 55%
USA: 9%
China: 8%
Norway: 5%
Japan: 3%

And then where do Germany and France figure in this?

UK Exports of Goods and Services
Average Annual Growth Rate
(% pa) from 2001-2007
Estonia 12.6
Slovakia 11.0
Poland 10.6
Romania 10.0
Bulgaria 9.2
Lithuania 9.1
Latvia 8.6
Hungary 6.0
Greece 4.7
Czech Republic 4.2
Slovenia 4.0
Belgium 3.7
Netherlands 3.6
Irish Republic 3.3
Sweden 3.2
Germany 2.6
Total EU 2.6
Spain 2.5
Austria 2.1
Finland 1.7
Italy 1.4
Denmark 1.4
Portugal 0.1
France   -0.3

[Colwyn]

You make the point for me Eric. The EU, the rest of which we have infuriated, accounts for 57% of our exports. Nearly 4 times as important as our second most important market.

[Ovacikpeedoff]

Eric, I think you are missing the point a little on this. If we already have a high export rate to Germany and France all these figures are saying is that the rate of increase is not as high as other countries. For example, if in 2001 we were exporting £100 billion to Germany  As a rule of thumb exports in 2008 to Germany would be 125 billion based on a 2.5% annual growth rate. It is still a very big number.

What most of this anti EU group forget to mention is what the impact on our economy will be. Withdrawal from the EU will results in tariffs being applied and this will drive prices up. We become uncompetitive and lose market share. The eurosceptic will tell us that there are other markets we can export to. We may find other markets but not enough to take up the slack. Remember in the mid 70s we dumped the commonwealth countries as major trading partners. These have found alternative marketsand are unlikely to want to trade with us again. Europe is the biggest trading block in the world.

How long will major internationals like Nissan, Honda and Toyota continue to operate from the UK. They will want to move their operations to within the EU.Lots of cheap labour is available in eastern Europe.Business does not like uncertainty. America, the great economy of the world, is more protectionist than most. China is a very difficult market to try and break into. They work like the Japanese in the 70s, take what is being produced and copy it to make it better and make it more cheaply.

[Eric]

I agree with you on this point Colwyn.  However, at 57% and 55% these are not so huge that alternative markets cannot be found.  As the EU is a 'Customs Union' in that they must adopt the same tariff on imports from countries outside the EU, if The UK was outside of this they could reduce their tariffs and make the UK a more attractive customer.  In theory (Stress theory) this would make imported goods cheaper in the UK and would aid recovery. Or keep the goods at the same price, increase profit margins and thus less companies going to the wall and less unemployment, thus less taxes paid out on benefits etc etc.  All theory of course, polititions tend to get in the way of logic.

[stoop]

Let's face it - Germany couldn't rule Europe after trying through war - twice. Now they are hell bent on doing it through the 'United Europe'. 'United' as long as they are top dog of course.

[Colwyn]

Come on, Stoop. This was developing into a sensible discussion. You'll be rambling on about 1966 next. Buck up.

[Ovacikpeedoff]

In this new pact why shouldn't Germany be the top dog as they will probably be paying for most of it?

In the UK we need to move on from this view that everything relates back to the second world war.The Germans still have a mental scar from what happened during the second world war and do struggle with it..The Germans are in the position they are today because they have worked hard at it. It is about time that the UK really starts to understand why Germany is the strong industrial power that it is.In relation to raw materials germany is no better off than the UK. We probably are better at R&D than the Germans.We have serious fundemental flaws in the way our economy works that accounts for why the Germans are better.

We keep going on in the UK about how hard we work and how many more hours we work than the rest of Europe. Having spent some time working in Germany it was rather enlightening to see how hard they do work and that they get maximum return from those hours invested. Their whole belief and attitude is so different to ours.

As people I am not a great fan of the Germans but I do admire how hard they work.

Colwyn, I know we have our differences but I think we are singing from the same hymn book here.

[corbindallas]

If the UK go it alone, are you telling me that companies like BMW, Citroen, Renault, Mercedes etc would not still want to trade with the UK, of course they would and likewise we could still trade with the EU with equal import export rights on goods, so to be told they will hold us to hostage if we opt out is not right. As Eric stats show our trade with the growing economies could be a lot more attractive than our now poor neighbours! Time for change even if people are scared of change!