Author Topic: E u  (Read 17230 times)

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Offline usedbustickets

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Re: E u
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2016, 11:22:17 AM »
I know I keep banging on about the left wing arguments for a Brexit, but in a very small way I am trying to show firstly that there is a left wing case and secondly try to present an alternative view from the one portrayed all across the media, that the only debate to be heard on the EU, either for in or out, is the right wing Tory debate.  The so called 'blue on blue' argument.  The absence of any real input by Labour/Trades Unions into the national debate, is worrying, particularly those supporting out!  Blimey even the consistent outers of UKIP - arguably the catalysts for this referendum - are not getting a fair crack of the whip anywhere in the media.  This is far too an important decision to be left just to the Tory Party elite, like the opportunist clown Johnson, Privateer Osborne,  Dodgy Dave Cameron et al, to debate.  Plus the fact that I am sick to death of the establishment figures - and livid luvvies - being paraded out, alongside dodgy dossiers of fear in an attempt to terrify people into voting to remain.  Where are the radical voices to be heard on the issue? Certainly not in mainstream media.

Got to say that I am looking forward to the Cameron - Farage debate on ITV.  OK the debate will be on a right wing platform, but hopefully we will see somebody who will - figuratively speaking - lay a glove or two on Cameron in open debate.  Well as open a debate as the Dave's media advisers will allow the debate to be!!  Truth be told we should be seeing a Cameron - Corbyn debate on the matter.  Cos until he took on the Labour leadership, Corbyn was always opposed to the bosses club that is the EU.

Having said that there has been an absence of left wing views on why we should leave the EU, there is an excellent article from Larry Elliott in last Friday's Guardian.  So as they do not come along too often, please make this a must read.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/20/brexit-best-answer-to-dying-eurozone-eu-undemocratic-elite




Offline Colwyn

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Re: E u
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2016, 15:13:20 PM »

Unfortunately I shan't be home to display this as I shall be in Turkey.





It seems to me that the Labour Movement is remarkably united over this vote; far more more than last time I voted on the issue. Of course there are some outriders, like the RMT Union that apparently believes that it is the EU that has been imposing austerity on Britain - haven't they been listening to that chap who lives in No 11 since at all? He has been banging on about the necessity of austerity since he moved in, in 2010. But, generally, both Trade Union Movement and the Party are behind the Remain campaign. Somewhat lacking the fireworks of the Tory lot of course, but solid support is there.

Offline Colwyn

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Re: E u
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2016, 10:32:10 AM »
So that's it. The die is cast and so is my vote.

Offline Scunner

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Re: E u
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2016, 10:51:27 AM »
One thing I haven't seen at all is any polls on the likely outcome - has anyone? It could be two thirds to vote to leave or 99% voting to stay, I have no idea. With the Scottish Independence referendum we had several a day :D

With all the utter rubbish being claimed (by both sides) it would be nice to know where the split is currently.


Offline Colwyn

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Re: E u
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2016, 11:01:51 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271589


Here's the latest BBC poll of polls. It shows Remain 44%, Leave 38%, Don't Know 18%. I wouldn't place too much credence on it though. Individual polls have been going up and down wildly showing quite different scores, and different methods of polling (e.g. internet v. telephone) give different results. The latest one shows Don't Know up by 8% - a very odd result.



« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 11:14:21 AM by Colwyn »

Offline Scunner

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Re: E u
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2016, 13:29:10 PM »
I think don't knows end up converting more into stays than leaves - maybe the undecided are more likely to be cautious when the decision comes - even people who walk up to the voting booth undecided or slightly pro-change can "bottle it" at the last moment.

Also in the Scottish Independence referendum most of the passion/noise (call it what you like) came from the independence supporters - as were most of the rallies and even the YES/NO posters in people's windows, Yes ones were numerous and No ones quite rare.

I guess it's easy to get excited about the chance to move to something new - whereas keeping everything as it is might be difficult to get all animated about.

So if it's neck and neck in the polls, expect to stay in the EU    ;)

Offline kevin3

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Re: E u
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2016, 16:12:16 PM »


    After the last General Elections pollsters predictions I question the need to employ them, they all got it wrong.

    Milliband was so convinced he was going to walk it he sent a message to No 10 asking the Cameron's to vacate

    10 Downing Street within 48 hours of the election result, Ended up with egg on his face to go with the bacon.

Offline nichola

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Re: E u
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2016, 17:12:39 PM »
If my reading of this is correct the UK looks set to leave and is probably a more reliable reference than the opinion polls.

https://m.oddschecker.com/t/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

My feeling is those that want to leave will drag themselves from their hospital bed if necessary to vote. I don't get the same feeling about remain voters. I pretty much agree with Scunner about remaining not being something to get all excited about.

The leave campaign certainly have the loudest and for the most part ugliest (some might call it passionate) voices though... We've certainly seen the worst in the war of words on this.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 17:22:54 PM by nichola »

Offline Colwyn

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Re: E u
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2016, 17:21:05 PM »
If my reading of this is correct the UK looks set to leave and is probably a more reliable reference than the opinion polls.
I am not a betting person, but doesn't this say that about 55% of bets back Remain to win and get between 50-65% of the vote with 55-60% of the vote being the most popular bet?

Offline nichola

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Re: E u
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2016, 17:24:34 PM »
If you say so, I thought it said the opposite but then I've never placed a bet and clearly that's just as well   :)




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