Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: Scunner on August 21, 2013, 16:16:05 PM
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Discuss ???
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I would love to believe that they had no knowledge of what was going on as I assume that by being in Ibiza and working the bars they were somewhat streetwise and in the real world who gets offered a holiday in South America for nothing with no strings?
Although they have mentioned that they were scared for their families I find it hard that they did not risk approaching anyone in Peru at any of the location they went or on entering the country in passport control, customs etc to avoid the potential for what did happen in the end.
I cannot judge them as individuals as I do not know them but one thing struck me on seeing the first video and the pictures on the news was that having been arrested and in detention for 2 weeks that McCollum Connolly had her hair up like she was going out to party. Now this could be a middle aged strange view on things but it did strike me as a bit "showie" considering the circumstances.
According to reports there are a reasonable number of British people in detention for similar offences all pleading their innocents, difficult to see that they are all innocent and that goes for all of the other Foreigners.
Cannot see any mitigating reasons why they will be not found guilty, but I wish them luck.
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Guilty of mixing with the wrong people and trying to make a few quid, I may be wrong but they have been very naive in my opinion!
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From my understanding they were employed handing out flyers in San Antonio, an area not exactly known for partaking of afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches. Also I would imagine handing out flyers does not pay too well.
Flights to Peru are not exactly on the cheap side either, having just checked they are the thick end of £1100. If someone offered to pay for their flights they obviously expected something in return, it was never going to a gift.
The old adage if it sounds too good to be true it probably is springs to mind.
They probably are not guilty of intentionally drug smuggling but are guilty of naivety. Which of course is not a crime.
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They probably are not guilty of intentionally drug smuggling but are guilty of naivety. Which of course is not a crime.
Isn't it?
I have no idea whether they were terrorised into being drug mules or not but their body language in the video when they were being questioned showed little little in the way of remorse or fear.
I'm a reasonably tough cookie, but I'd have been a blethering mess in their place.
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Guilty as charged m'lud. The body language gives them away I am afraid. :(
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Guilty, hope they get a substantial custodial sentence. Only thinking of the money and not the misery that the drugs would have caused.
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Am I right they said they were taken to Peru against their will? And their route took them via Madrid (more than once?). Wouldn't you attach yourself to the first Spanish policeman you see at the airport holding a huge machine gun?
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I watched the footage taken shortly after they were arrested and my first thought was that they looked totally unconcerned. One was nonchalantly chomping through a burger, and neither of them looked upset or remorseful.
If that had been me I would have been in pieces
They look to me like a couple of streetwise girls who thought they could earn some big bucks doing something that seemed easy enough. They deserve everything they get, in my opinion.
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I certainly don't think they are naive girls. They knew what they were undertaking, knew the risks involved and fortunately were caught.
Their lack of tears or remorse had me thinking that perhaps they were both rather shell shocked to be in such a position but watching their behaviour over the past two weeks I'm of the opinion that they're a pair of tough wee cookies who were out to make a fast buck.
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She looked quite happy wearing those Mini Mouse ears !
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WHEN they are found to have a case to answer, & WHEN the result of that case is a guilty verdict for both, all of those who are presently declaring them to be 2 "innocent wee lasses", will soon find out how "innocent", when previous form raises it's ugly head, & their smug family members have to find something else to bleat about. GUILTY, in my mind. Speaking as the parent of a son whose life, since the age of 12/13, has been absolutely, totally destroyed by people like these 2 bimbos, the penalty for ALL drugs dealers should be the ultimate deterrent, DEATH, no excuses, no reprieves, no commuting to life. !! I do not apologise if any of my post offends any one, if anyone thinks I am being a bit "melodramatic", please, feel free to walk in my shoes, or those of my Darling wife, who has had to watch her son deteriorate from a lovely, loving young man, to a mere shell of a human being, I will even pay to have them altered to fit !!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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According to the Daily Fail...if you believe the rubbish they write -they were that worried about their safety that they went on a mega shopping trip following their arrival in South America!! Say no more!
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Guilty as sin - throw away the key.
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Gordon, heartbreaking for you and your wife. Terrible.
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Dear Gordon, how absolutely awful for you and your family, no wonder this topic touched such a chord for you. I completely agree with you that anybody who helps to introduce youngsters to this disgusting addiction should get all thats coming to them! GUILTY
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I'm with Gordon on this one. They were out to make a fast buck, greedy bitches. They had plenty opportunities to seek help. One is even seen "strolling " along on her own in Peru. My nephew lives and works in Ibiza and said initially most of the Brits were out searching for them when their other friends reported them missing. It is alleged the Scottish one stated to her flatmate that she was going on a short holiday " to see a man about a dog"! They knew fine well what they were getting in to. Like most of that age group, they think they are invincible.
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Guilt? - pish!
It's all about this apparently
http://twitpic.com/d9ledx
I'm sorry, but what the f***?
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They were caught red handed smuggling drugs. I guess theyre guilty. I have no sympathy with drug smugglers or dealers. 20 years minimum.
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With Gordon on this too, I do not wish to be harsh but, drugs destroy lives, it is as simple as that.
They are showing no remorse and never attempted to get assistance, they could easily have got themselves help at any of the airports, but, I think they knew what they were doing and decided the money was worth the risk.
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If you watch programmes like Banged Up Abroad, or even news interviews - often the difference between those arrested for this type of crime, and those convicted/time served for this type of crime, is that the latter freely admit it.
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If these girls were scared for their families safety, and indeed their own safety, then surely they will now be doubly scared as the drugs 'mastermind' will now be out of pocket to the tune of £1.5 million. Their story doesn't ring true.
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WHEN they are found to have a case to answer, & WHEN the result of that case is a guilty verdict for both, all of those who are presently declaring them to be 2 "innocent wee lasses", will soon find out how "innocent", when previous form raises it's ugly head, & their smug family members have to find something else to bleat about. GUILTY, in my mind. Speaking as the parent of a son whose life, since the age of 12/13, has been absolutely, totally destroyed by people like these 2 bimbos, the penalty for ALL drugs dealers should be the ultimate deterrent, DEATH, no excuses, no reprieves, no commuting to life. !! I do not apologise if any of my post offends any one, if anyone thinks I am being a bit "melodramatic", please, feel free to walk in my shoes, or those of my Darling wife, who has had to watch her son deteriorate from a lovely, loving young man, to a mere shell of a human being, I will even pay to have them altered to fit !!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
You have my vote 100%
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Prison is a travesty, I was amazed to find that of 1729 prisoners in Wormwood Scrubs they were all
innocent --- even me ;D joke! Well almost
I have since researched this speaking to ex-prisoners and have found that about 95% of
people in prison are totally innocent --- according to them ;)
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WHEN they are found to have a case to answer, & WHEN the result of that case is a guilty verdict for both, all of those who are presently declaring them to be 2 "innocent wee lasses", will soon find out how "innocent", when previous form raises it's ugly head, & their smug family members have to find something else to bleat about. GUILTY, in my mind. Speaking as the parent of a son whose life, since the age of 12/13, has been absolutely, totally destroyed by people like these 2 bimbos, the penalty for ALL drugs dealers should be the ultimate deterrent, DEATH, no excuses, no reprieves, no commuting to life. !! I do not apologise if any of my post offends any one, if anyone thinks I am being a bit "melodramatic", please, feel free to walk in my shoes, or those of my Darling wife, who has had to watch her son deteriorate from a lovely, loving young man, to a mere shell of a human being, I will even pay to have them altered to fit !!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
You have my vote 100%
And mine.
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Deleted by GordonA
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I think visitors to prisons should be separated from inmates by glass screens,as in the USA, with no contact possible.
Also any prison staff caught bringing drugs,phones and other items into prisons should serve a minimum 10 year sentence.
This would give drug addict prisoners a better chance of "getting clean" and make prisons safer places for all.
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Some strong views, and ive been on both sides of the fence. i would be very surprised if these girls are innocent, i would also be very surprised if they dont have some addiction problems themselves. most drug dealers do.
is prison the answer? i dont know. it may give you a chance to asses your life and it can be the start of rehabilitation for some people.
separating visitors from inmates? dosent stop the desire to use drugs, blaming everyone one else? dosent stop the desire to use drugs.
in my experience when youve had enough your had enough, untill then its hopeless.
i had enough nearly ten years ago and have been completely abstinent from all drugs (including alcahol!) since then.
a day at a time and with a lot of help
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Thank you Scott and Lisa for an enlightening and open statement, makes you think!
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Prison may not be the answer (I couldn't care less if it is or isn't) - prison is the deterrent. I can't imagine how many more people would take a chance if the deterrent was set at a lower level of punishment, but it would most certainly be higher. Meaning more drugs on the streets of the UK, more crime, more misery, more death.
Forget rehabilitation, the majority of people I know don't want them to get out at all, rehabilitated or not.
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Thank you Scott and Lisa, and Gordon for sharing their experiences with us on the forum, I am overwhelmed by their honesty, and wish Scott and Lisa all the best for continuing abstinence, and hope better things may be around for Gordon's son. I would like to think its never too late to turn your life around, there has to be some hope.
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Whilst there might be all sorts of reasons why these two girls were driven to be drug mules, having read the following two articles its hard to believe their total innocence:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/peru/10249201/Drug-mules-kidnap-claim-not-credible.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/michaella-had-4000-debt-before-arrest-in-peru-29507519.html
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if prison is a deterrent why are they full?
and why wouldn't anybody want to see someone recover from addiction? very easy to judge when you havent walked in the shoes
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1. There will be less people in prison if the punishment for a crime (any crime) is 50 years, compared with 50 hours. Thus, the harsher sentence is a deterrent. Whether prisons are full or not has nothing to do with the point.
2. I never mentioned recovering from addiction whatsoever. I mentioned rehabilitation, "the restoration of someone to a useful place in society". Without walking in their shoes, I can safely say I don't want people who bring drugs into the UK to ever return back into our society.
You have your view, this one is mine.
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ok, its just something very close to my heart, people do recover/rehabilitate (which to me are the same thing) thats all i was saying really. i know i have
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And how many kilos were you caught bringing in?
Unless we're talking about different things.
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i could give you a full list of crimes but feel as im already prejudged as "one of them" theres no need, you can have the simple version.
for 16 years i used drink and drugs habitually,this lead to the prisons, hospitals,violence,broken relationships,fear and panic for my family and much much more.
i had a selfish compulsion to use substances, which i put before everything.
since then i have learned about addiction, and found recovery. All of the above has stopped. i try to repay society were i can, and have built bridges with all my family, in fact i will on holiday with my mum soon. i work, i have a family, i pay taxes, i dont break the law, i now live as i think i should always have done, im not special or different i have said any of this for any reason other than its who i am, im not proud of what i was, im proud of what i am.
believe me, these nearly ten years have been a lot easier than those before
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i could give you a full list of crimes but feel as im already prejudged as "one of them" theres no need, you can have the simple version.
for 16 years i used drink and drugs habitually,this lead to the prisons, hospitals,violence,broken relationships,fear and panic for my family and much much more.
i had a selfish compulsion to use substances, which i put before everything.
since then i have learned about addiction, and found recovery. All of the above has stopped. i try to repay society were i can, and have built bridges with all my family, in fact i will on holiday with my mum soon. i work, i have a family, i pay taxes, i dont break the law, i now live as i think i should always have done, im not special or different i have said any of this for any reason other than its who i am, im not proud of what i was, im proud of what i am.
believe me, these nearly ten years have been a lot easier than those before
Excellent to hear. Everyone deserves another chance to change things.
I appreciate your honesty as an insightful contribution to this most interesting part of the Calis Beach Forums.
And an appreciation of Gordon and Loz's openness in discussing such a personally painful subject.
I feel inspired to be just as frank in future.
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i could give you a full list of crimes but feel as im already prejudged as "one of them" theres no need,
You couldn't be more wrong, my point is that you are not "one of them".
The topic is about 2 females caught trying to transport drugs internationally. I am talking about people who choose to take the risk and bring drugs from abroad into the UK where it can be distributed and cause misery. You seem to want to pretend and imply that I am talking about others along the chain, and I am not - in reality you know that.
Well done for getting sorted, but you don't need to explain yourself - I wasn't talking about you.
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Ok Scunner point taken, there's no pretending with me, sometimes the written word can be miss read.
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Fair do's
I would hope anyone who wanted/needed support to try and free themselves would get it, and as much as they need for as long as they need and want. But no such compassion for those that bring it into our country. Throw away the key and let their families bring them food or starve.
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Of course and I feel the same about alcohol! Goodnight everyone
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I have kept out of this one for personal reasons, I get angry and annoyed at the dealers and person's dealing in misery. I had to get Gordon to delete one post, maybe I was wrong.
Scott and Lisa, I admire your honesty, and also applaud your success in fighting this demon.
I have met many people who have rehabilitated, I have listened to their story and how they finally came to terms with the troubles it was causing, both personally and socially; does something just happen to make them wake one day and realise the pain they cause and decide today is the day to do something about it? none have have been able to explain it.
Dealers at school gates should be shot, put down, and I am would willingly head this group. You think to yourself the teen years are arriving, and the roller-coaster ride is beginning, never in your wildest dreams do you think that your child would or has succumbed to the evils at a young age. Our son will be 30 this year, I was surprised to see him reach 21, he is now in hospital, has been sectioned for nearly 10.years, his mind is, scrambled for want of a better word, he does have his lucid moments when conversations appear quite normal. other times I wonder what planet he is visiting today, other times he complains that it is all my fault, this is the side of an addict coming out, everyone else is at fault except them.
Dealers, smugglers, Mr Big should all be sought out and have their assets striped, even should this mean their families are left destitute, they were happy to live off the misery their dealing partners levied on the weaker minded users.
I make no excuse for users, they are just the end user, some are more easily led than others, vulnerable? others look for an escape to their present existence, yet the end result is misery all around.
What I do find strange is that the import/dealer is never or very rarely an addict, very rarely do you see a falling down, sniffing addict at the custom counter. For this group of filth I find there is no rehabilitation, they are sorry they got caught and happy to blame everyone else for their greed and stupidity. These girls, along with the witch of a grandmother that was caught earlier this year in Thailand deserve all the misery that could ever be heaped upon a human.
These 2 young girls Guilty? DAMN RIGHT!
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Of course they knew what they were doing......They would of believed all the rubbish they were being told by the person who paid for their tickets etc mainly because of the £ signs they saw flashing before their eyes.
They were probably told that they wouldn't get caught because others do it all the time and they were dumb enough to believe it.
If they were adult enough to live away from home in another country then they are adult enough to know the dangers etc.
They did it, they got caught, now they should be adult enough to do the time!
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I feel sorry for addicts, there are a lot of reasons for taking drugs, peer pressure ---its only xxx and will make you really appreciate the music, (that one was once said to me!), insecurity, work pressure -- I need to stay awake to finish this etc etc. Then they try something stronger, and, they are hooked! I have been addicted to drugs all my life, United playing at home!, Fine Ales, single Malts, used to smoke 20 a day etc. It is the degree and dangerousness and that is where the difference lies.
The real villains of the piece are not the users, nor even perhaps some of the low level dealers, most of who are addicts themselves and do it to fuel their addiction, it is us, our society and our over tolerant behaviour, and the people we trust such as senior policemen and politicians, Customs officers and Prison Officers. Without collusion very few drugs would get in, someone does not check a particular Vehicle, someone makes a telephone call before a drugs raid etc. It is the acceptance that is the issue. Would people who buy a pack of cut price smuggled cigarettes in the Pub consider themselves as helping to fund the organisation that helps the young girl inject too much Heroin in her veins and die a horrible death? Well they are!
Like most of us who grew up in the 60's there were drugs everywhere, it was "fashionable" and whilst the 60's were great fun it was also a time where we destroyed our values and laid the foundations for the "loadsamoney" 80's and the subsequent issue we have today including a dramatic rise in drug use and import.
Stringent penalties for people like these two girls will not stem the tide, it will be much more careful scrutiny of people in positions of trust, it will be us really caring, seeing something and not just turning a blind eye. I remember once seeing someone obviously selling drugs on a street corner in Birmingham, and stopping my car a few streets away to tell a male and female police officers on foot patrol what I had seen -- they were not really interested! How will we stop drugs with attitudes like that?
Are the girls Guilty? Well that is up to the Law to discover and whilst I personally believe they are "banged to rights" the evidence will hopefully prove that and they will receive whatever punishment they deserve, and somewhere, some people will sit and drink their brandy and discuss how they can recoup their losses, probably in a large mansion, where "senior" figures frequently are wined and dined.
In the United States more people as a percentage of a population attend Church on a Sunday than anywhere in the World, but secretly they really worship another god -- Mammon! You can Murder, Rape, deal drugs, etc. and get treated relatively lightly if indeed ever even convicted --- just don't commit awful crimes like being Poor!
We need to change!
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Now here's me thinking that you had given up preaching.
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Verse 28. - There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Whatever gave you that idea??? ;D
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I like how you speak out John Taylor.
Loz and Gordon, Lisa and Scott, thank you for your brave honest posts. Loz and G, I just can't imagine the terrible time you went through, and still suffer each time you look at your darling boy. My heart aches for you. Those smug dealer bas---ds should see the agonising suffering they cause, not that it would change their cold, greedy hearts. God bless you.
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I like how you speak out John Taylor.
Loz and Gordon, Lisa and Scott, thank you for your brave honest posts. Loz and G, I just can't imagine the terrible time you went through, and still suffer each time you look at your darling boy. My heart aches for you. Those smug dealer bas---ds should see the agonising suffering they cause, not that it would change their cold, greedy hearts. God bless you.
Thank you Lotty, I tell everyone who will listen ---- When I am King ---- all this will change! :)
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We'll turn the telly off on Christmas Day, that's for sure :)
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We'll turn the telly off on Christmas Day, that's for sure :)
Oh, didn't I say? Television will not be broadcast on Christmas Day :)
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Have you forsaken sacred music as well as all the rest then ? You seem to have experienced an unusual Epiphany.
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just pawns in a large game i agree with johntaylor the real culprits are always one step back still guilty though
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I lived in Peru for three years and was friends with many people in the British Consulate and Embassy. They would always tell me sorry tales of all the Brits, Americans and Europeans that fill the squalid prisons charged with drug smuggling. They would always claim they were innocent and were made to do it. Lets face it, there aren't too many other defences really are there?
Invariable they would be addicts themselves and is was this fact or the promise of riches that forced them to do it.
I agree that they are far from being the brains behind the operation but they are no less guilty so for that reason they should suffer the consequences of their actions.
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Makes me laugh that the relatives of these girls have set up a charitable fund to help with their legal fees. I wonder how many people will give donations.
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Interesting that one of the girls fathers was on ITV this morning and said "she may plead guilty" and then accept the 2 years and 3 months sentence to avoid a long legal battle and a possible longer sentence. He did ask the UK and Spanish police to help with investigation, I hope they decline and spend my tax on real issues!
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On todays Sky News it's been announced that this evil pair will be allowed to
serve their sentences in the UK if they plead guilty and one has already said she will.
They left the UK for the good life in Ibiza.They started their grubby scheme in Ibiza.
They travelled to Peru, committed their crime and were caught there.
Why the bleedin' ell' should we pay to keep them here.?
By the time the Human Rights disciples and the National Association of Handwringers
have strutted their stuff these two will be free after a few months and then sign on
for benefits, paid for by--------------? >:( >:( >:(
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Good point kevin3. Have no sympathy for these two at all and they shouldn't be allowed the 'soft option' of serving their time (however long - or short - that may be) in a British prison.
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NO COMMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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No comment from here either!!! :(
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Yesterday this pair of drug runners pleaded guilty to all charges "to get home early."
The Peruvian Government have tonight announced that they will not accept this plea
and are looking to jail them for 15 years each.
Shame innit. ;D ;D
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YES!!!! result, I hope that it sticks. :D
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Do the crime, do the time!
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Do the crime in a country, do the time in that country - why should there be even the possibility to serve it in our prisons? It's like a hotel upgrade :(
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A few years ago a young British "female"got caught with a load of drugs in Thailand and was sentenced to death.
She got herself pregnant by one of the prison guards to save her skin,got the death sentence lifted to save the child
and then following a campaign got transferred to a UK jail to serve her life sentence.Then the Human Rights Brigade
got to work and within something like two years she was free and boasting in the tabloids that she had got away with it.
I wonder what happened to the poor little mite she "created" to save her own life.??
She probably has no more idea than I have but I could hazard a guess as to who is paying for their upkeep in the UK.
An' it ain't the Human Rights Brigade. >:( >:( >:(
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It was quoted in the media yesterday that these two criminals were in a hell-hole of a jail where there was little food or sanitation, followed by a picture of two healthy young women, with new hair styles, certainly not starving, and one of them apparently said that she had spent the day colouring the other ones hair. Hard labour indeed!!!
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No worried folks, at a meeting the Worsley Popular Front last night it was agreed unanimously
after 6 pints of Golden Hen and much debate that when we are in power following our glorious revolution they will not be allowed to serve their sentence here as such, but, when have served it in Per and are returned here, they will serve the same sentence here. How does that sound?
Che
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It sounds like you might still be a little drunk
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What date do you set out on your walk across the Atlantic Ocean John.??
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These girls knew what they where doing, even texting friends before they left. If they had not been caught this time, they would have done it again.
Every time a Brit gets caught smuggling drugs, they always say they are innocent and then expect our Government to step in and help them. Then they get out and sell their story or write a book.
Time we left these people to get on with it and serve their full time in the country they committed the crime in. It might be an example to others who want to smuggle drugs.
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Totally agree!!
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very good Kevin, almost funny!