Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: Jacqui Harvey on March 05, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
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Yes, it is wrong to tape children's mouths up, but what surprised me is the parents interviewed on T.V. saying they were shocked and appalled by the incident and their children had been upset, crying and traumatised.
In all of this outcry not one parent express surprise, shock or embarrassment that their children's bad and disruptive behaviour, pushed a teacher over the edge.
As a parent I would be wondering just why my child was not behaving and just who ultimately was responsible for a child who was uncontrollable in a classroom.
I feel extremely sorry for teachers these days with classes full of badly behaved children and little in the way of controlling them.
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Jacqui, I think it totally wrong, and a form of physical assault to actually "lay" hands upon any child in this situation. If it were only one child who was being abused in this manner, some kind of rationale may be behind the teachers disgusting behaviour, but, when she went to the extreme, and meted out this abhorrent treatment to several, ( and we do not know how many) children, at the same time, points to her having a severe problem, and a lack of understanding as how to best cope with children at all. !!
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Yes Gordon, I agree, I worked in the local school and I saw a child who came from a totally disruptive home kick a student teacher so hard in the leg he brought the girl to tears, then he ran out of the school. The teachers had no control of him and they could do nothing. I feel that parents have to hold up their hands and say they are responsible for the way their children behave.
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when i was at school a certain teacher used to make us take a sock off and used to pin it around our mouths if we talked in his class ( not sure if thats where the saying put a sock in it came from ) he would also then tell our parents at open evening and id be in big trouble again with my Dad !!!
im not saying i agree with the action or would allow this to happen to my kids just saying how times have changed !!!
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This is where me and Gordon differ, wash their mouths out with soap! You only have to walk the shopping arcades to have a little sympathy with this teacher, all control was taken out of the hands of schools by the politically correct brigade some years back, hence no discipline now.
Maybe National Service should be brought back to instil respect, or if the forces don't want them bring in Boot Camps.
Cripes! it must be a bad hair day.
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I've just been in Tesco where i had the misfortune to meet in every aisle a toddler of around 18 - 20 months who 'girned' her way round the store with a fake cry! Her Mum was heavily pregnant & Dad uttered every minute or so 'that's not acceptable behaviour is it Elise?' He'd have done everyone in the store a favour if he'd taken her quietly aside outside & explained to her who's in charge here - it certainly wasn't him & Mum didn't look like she'd the energy to care!
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The point is being totally missed here, This teacher actually assaulted someone else's children, PLURAL, by wrapping several layers of Sellotape around their mouths in order to stop the children from "giggling" !! I firmly believe that, as soon as the children are dropped off at school, they then become the responsibility of that school, and subsequently, whichever teacher/teachers, are taking classes.
Surely, in this day and age, adequate training is/should be provided , in order that anyone wishing to become a teacher of young children , are/should be made aware of the propensity for "naughty " behaviour ? We are discussing little people here, who, for 4 or 5 years, have lived in a home environment, with Mum and Dad, then taken to a strange building and expected to behave like angels, HELLO !!
If these so-called "teachers" , cannot stand to hear children acting/sounding like children, change your job, because you are obviously in the wrong occupation !!
Loz, my Darling, as much as I love you, how can you send children on National service, because it is children who have been abused by this woman, NOT their parents !! Will you still feed me today ??
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What about the ironing ?
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I totally agree with Gordon
I am an assessor in health and social care at my local college and I witness first hand how young adults sometimes behave....but gagging them :o :
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These kids are 10 year olds and the class has 30 pupils which is very surprising. Twenty of the kids would not behave and disrupted the class for the other children, meaning the well behaved and perhaps well brought up children were suffering. I don't agree with taping mouths and this was not my point of starting this debate.
My point was, why aren't the parents questioning just why their children acted in this manner? If it was my child I would certainly be asking questions and wanting to know why he/she was disrupting a class.
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um ug uh uh !! thats better sorry I was Gagged, every naughty kid should have an apple placed firmly in their mouth, (Goes for 65year old too)
and yes, question the parents, they ones bleating are future participants for the Kyle Show.
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Pass !! I give up !!!!!!!!
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Somebody who is supposed to be a teacher tapes up the mouths of 20 odd children and some people think this is the fault of the children and therefore blame their parents. A very curious way of thinking. How about blaming the teacher's parents? That would make about as much sense.
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Its a good thing they didn't go to mine and Barrie's school where we had the wooden board rubber thrown at our heads for misbehaving. Or a well aimed lump of chalk...
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Maybe National Service should be brought back to instil respect,
We definitely don't want our armed forces spoilt by a load of little gobsh1tes who won't shut-up when told.
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I don't think I'd feel safe if my country was being defended by 10 year olds. I 'spect that PC Brigade would have something to say too. Bloody troublemakers.
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I was caned and strapped at school. I do not consider this abuse. More often than not I felt that I deserved it. Does anyone on this forum feel I was physically and mentally abused, If so who is to be held responsible?
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1. Yes, I think you were physically abused (as I was at school).
2. The popular answer seems to blame the parents. But it was a different time and place and I'm not certain blaming individuals is appropriate. I'm just pleased we don't do it any more.
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I guess that because people of my age were faced with such hard punishment, in some cases unjustified, that I find the whole situation pathetic. The teacher, the school, the kids, the parents and the press, should get on with life, instead of over cooking such an insignificant little incident.
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I was never caned, but as the threat was there I behaved myself as did my friends. As I said i worked in a local Primary School It was a small school with only two classes The children that caused the problems in the school had parents that took no interest in the school or the PTA Meeting or any fundraising It was a couple of kids who always disrupted the classes and caused trouble and there was very little the teachers could do about it There was little point in speaking to the parents, but they did get spoken too It was a same few spoilt it for the others and disrupted the classes to the detriment of the rest of the children I remember at school party one boy who was 9 at the time was hiding under a table, when an adult helper went to get him out, the child told the adult to F Off We were all stunned.
I firmly believe that children's behaviour in school. has a lot to do with there home life.
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The last generation or two have become soft and disrespectful, if you are unfortunate enough to be near to a school at "chucking out time" you will understand where I am heading,.
Bus drivers suffer the worse abuse I have ever seen or witnessed, diabolical, if a youngster offers you a seat it is probably because his friend has just spat on the seat; walk into shops at this time, and as a shopper you will see the shoplifting or the friends daring them to pilfer certain items, and this is from an area where the parents have their noses so far up their arse's they refuse to see what their little angels are doing, or, refusing to accept darling little Tomothy or Tikara would even consider such outrageous thoughts or behaviour.
The other end of the scale, Tommy and Tikki same behaviour, parents shouting "don't f'ing get caught doing dat ha ha ha ha ain't dat a fing" U fink dat is bad, fink again m8t.
And their offspring are the next generation! give us strength or drop that bomb now.
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There isn't any good behaviour here.
I agree that parents demonstrate appalling behaviour in some cases and kids follow their lead. I have observed unbelievable pressure on teachers to tolerate abusive and violent kids who have abusive and violent parents to support their bad behaviour if their "darlings" are reprimanded. We give far too many 'rights' to kids and wonder why there is no discipline and when physical punishment was taken away in schools we didn't substitute with any other effective sanctions.
The teacher's behaviour was also appalling in my opinion but that is based on the little I know about the incident. I would have been happy/comfortable if each child that had been really badly behaved had been sent for a slap on the back of the hand by the head teacher.
A measured punishment by someone in control not a reaction.
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i think this generation needs parental classes before they have their children
i was seventeen when i married in 1972 and had my 1st in 1973.
i only brought up my children the way my mum and dad did without the leather belt.
and no complaints at school ;D
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Interesting, lots of views, lots of outrage but this is yet again a society issue, we have allowed generations to thumb their noses at authority and the answer top everything is "I know, we will dumb it down!" The latest example? --- if you watch BBC live you need a license. And for years we prosecuted those who did not pay the license fee.
Now people "thumb their nose" at this and it had now been proposed that we don't actually punish people for totally ignoring the law as the Courts are too busy!
We have become the most badly behaved nation in Europe -- and we wonder why children are badly behaved and why adults go off the rails?
It time we had a new offence on the Statute book --- being a parent of a miscreant child!
The Teacher should not have done it, I doubt anyone would argue that -- but we don't know all
the circumstances or what else had happened previously or the strain the Teacher may have been under -- lets
also not forget that there are a lot of poor Teachers as there are poor performers in any trade or profession -- they cant hold interest, are boring and incompetent (I had a few of those at school!) -- so they should find another line of work! I live next door to a Teacher who has just retired, I have spoken to her on many occasions over the years and she was very obviously dedicated and conscientious and hated the rules and regulations and box ticking but lived for the look on the face of a child when they "suddenly got it!" which is probably why she said she never had trouble maintaining order -- a good Teacher --- but lately the maintaining order was becoming harder with more and more disruptive and abusive children and one day she just said ---enough!
My biggest concern looking ahead is our education is now so poor, and our youth know so little and are so "uneducated" -- they will prove more unemployable than the 20-30 group now, I am amazed that so called "Graduates" don't seem to know much about anything except to be extremely inventive in "excuses"! No wonder Sir Philip Green had to set up his own "academy" to teach them the basics ------- before giving them a job ---- in shops!
Teacher was wrong -- parents were wrong --- system is wrong -- society is broken!
JT
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This school is local to me and so I feel I have the right to reply. This is a middle school so the children are between 9 and 12/13. The children in particular are 10 so year 6 I think. The teacher in question, although she shouldn't have used this method to quieten the class, has lost her job (probably)and her career in the UK because she'll never get another one here. She isn't from the UK and so perhaps this method of keeping control is acceptable where she comes from and perhaps the children in Spain are better behaved in the classroom.
I find it disturbing that the parents haven't critisised their children for their behaviour. None of us were in the classroom that day and so how are we able to know exactly what went on? Children can be selective with the truth even as a group.
Finally, rant over, no she shouldn't have taped the children's mouths but it happened, she won't have a job anymore....was it worth a bit of peace? No! My last thought though is parents, back the teachers! You don't know how your children behave in school. Some of them are absolute horrors but angels at home and teachers have no way to discipline them anymore. Both my girls are teachers and the stories they could tell.....
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One of the complainants I saw happily posing for the media then declared that she was " distraught "
while her grinning 10 year old son said he was "traumatised ".
The choice of words sounded as though they had already met the no win-no fee guy.
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I think johntaylor49 has got it spot on. I have always said that a lot of the discipline problems in schools started in the early '70's when teachers started wanting to mix with the pupils as friends with the 'don't call me Mr Jones or Sir, call me Dave' bit.
Two of my three younger brothers were schooled in that period so I saw it first hand and it shocked me then, even though I was only in my early twenties.
I was no saint at school and neither were my classmates (all 37 of us) but we respected the teachers, unlike today, all of which were at least 30years our senior and had earned that respect.
I also think that the lack of powers given to and respect for, the police has an adverse effect on the behaviour of unruly children and their equally unruly parents. :-\