Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: Roy Salmon on March 08, 2017, 08:56:08 AM
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I have had an apartment in Calis for over 10 years and over the past few years Olga has looked after
the property and holiday let through her Agency without any problem. She now tells me that a number of new changes being introduced in Turkey will create serious administrative difficulties for both of us. Can
anybody confirm what is being proposed and is there anything that can be done to help us.
Thanks for any constructive suggestions.
Roy Salmon
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Roy
What I am led to believe is that if you have people stay in your Apt the police need to be informed on a daily basis, this includes friends and family. I may well be wrong on this but im sure I read it on one of the websites.
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I posted this on a different topic some time ago:
If you rent out your villa or apartment on a long term lease or tenancy agreement you're unaffected at this time.
If you rent out a room or rooms then you are affected.
If you rent out your villa or apartment on short term holiday lets, i.e. for a week or two, then you are affected.
It would appear that you need to obtain ID from each renter and submit this to the Polis. You also must inform the taxman but I don't know if this is meant to be every time you rent, or in your tax return - which of course you all do anyway :)
The actual logistics of how this is done I suspect will vary from region to region. This has been passed under the state of emergency laws and the fines (I have been told) are hefty if you don't comply.
I've had it confirmed to me that this new regulation covers ALL rentals made out with a regular tenancy agreement, i.e. those made through holiday letting web sites, AirBNB etc. It also covers rentals where no fee is paid.
Landlords MUST establish a system where they can connect to the authorities computer system to allow the authorities to check, in real time, who is living at a property.
For not connecting to the authorities system, the fine is 10,000tl and for failing to provide real time data, the fine is 5,000tl.
The landlords system must be in place by mid January 2017.
JF
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Iv just been reading about the new rules to landlords on a residency group on fb, it was posted by Inspector from CBF so maybe he will be kind enough to post on here too so folk who dont go on fb know...there are very big fines by the looks of it for those who dont comply to the rules, though im not sure how it will be policed if you do rent out...
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What I am led to believe is that if you have people stay in your Apt the police need to be informed on a daily basis, this includes friends and family.
Sorry, missed that in my last post. Yes, friends and family are included, even if they aren't paying any rental.
I read somewhere that in Kas or Kalkan all you have to do is supply the Jandarma with a photocopy of the renters passport, rental dates and full details of the property owner. Something most local agents who do meet and greet can arrange.
Going to be more work which equals higher costs, but if that's the price of doing business in a country which is under a state of emergency, then you just get on with it.
JF
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So let's assume you have a house in the husbands name only. Do you have to supply daily details of your wife and any kids? If so how do you physically do this? Is there a website set up?
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No, because the property owner is in residence.
JF
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IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PROPERTY OWNERS
Summary of New Regulations for Daily rental houses villas and aparts.
As you remember after the terrorist attacks in istanbul Ministery of Internal Affairs changed the regulations.
Summary of changes for daily weekly rental properties.
1- Owner of the property have to apply to Police or Jandarma and register it as a rental property.
2- After the registration they will give you a password.
3- You need to buy a program and install it in your computer. Cost of program is starting from 300 lira for one villa
4- When you finish instalation you have to send list of people in the property every thay between 24.00/02.00
5- You have to send a empty list even if there is nobody in the property every day
6- At the end of the season you can apply to Police /Jandarma and suspend your account till the next season.
Attention
If you start renting your villa daily and weekly before doing those written above. Fined is starting from 10000 Lira (2200£)
If you dont send your guest list for one day (even when there is nobody) fine is 5000 Lira (1100£)
You need to inform the guests. if somebody comes as their guest and stays at the property and you are not informed and dont send on daily list, you will be fined again.
Police will send the accomidation lists to tax office and you have to be carefull, keep documents receipts for each entry and pay the tax.
Its not clear yet that if they will get tax with simple declaration or will ask an accountant to register you as a busines.
No need these process for long term rentals with contract.
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For the guest who will stay at with you,
If they will stay at property with you as a friend no probs. But If they say to taxman that they pay money for staying with you. You will be fined then.
For the guests regulations, you have to inform authorities if they will stay more than 30 days.
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Thanks for confirming all of that Inspector.
We've been researching the holiday rental market in the wee corner of Spain we'll be moving to shortly and the regulations now in place in Andalucia for touristic rentals aren't that different to what Turkey is implementing. The way I see it, they are under a fiscal state of emergency, as opposed to a security state of emergency.
What is significantly different is that every man and his dog who rents out a property in Andalucia is aware of the legislation, and the penalties for non compliance - fines up to €180,000 in some cases. There has been a bit of coverage of the new law in Turkey, which is heavy on what you have to do, but extremely light on how to do it. A lot of Spanish only rental sites have covered their laws in blogs, news articles etc but a quick scout round the Turkish equivalents came up with zip.
Makes me wonder if there are a whole bunch of rental owners who are actually unaware of these new regulations...?
I also wonder if we'll see something similar to a few years ago when the taxman sent a whole load of inspectors down from Ankara to go door knocking in the hope of catching a few holiday landlords not declaring their rental income, except it wont be taxmen knocking on the villa and apartment doors this time round. Or am I maybe being a bit cynical?
JF
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If you are letting a close relative stay (mother, daughter,brother) etc, and you are not there with them do they have to be registered with the police. I have relatives stay maybe once or twice a year, no rent is charged. But I'm not there with them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We own an apartment which we never rent to anybody. Occasionally have visitors who come over for 10 to 14 days. I have read this thread and the last comment by Inspector seems to suggest that we only have to inform the authorities if guests stay over 30 days but other comments contradict this. Could anyone clarify our position please.
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If you are letting a close relative stay (mother, daughter,brother) etc, and you are not there with them do they have to be registered with the police.
Technically yes. The way the new regulations are worded their relationship to the property owner is irrelevant.
We own an apartment which we never rent to anybody. Occasionally have visitors who come over for 10 to 14 days. I have read this thread and the last comment by Inspector seems to suggest that we only have to inform the authorities if guests stay over 30 days but other comments contradict this. Could anyone clarify our position please.
If you (as the property owner) are resident at the same time as your guests, then you only have to inform the Polis if they stay for longer than thirty consecutive nights.
JF
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Could you clarify regards none rental we do not rent our apartment out (and looking at this I don't think I would because of the hassle) but my daughter has visited on the odd occasion over the years so this would mean that I don't have to registrar for myself but would if my daughter visits ?
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This new legislation was drafted so the authorities could keep track on who was living where, with the main purpose to combat terrorism. Foreign holiday home owners, whose kids or mates or aunties want to use an apartment or villa weren't their main target.
Unfortunately, anyone renting out their villa or apartment now come under these new regulations and the bit that (as far as I can see) affects someone simply letting their mate have a free week in Turkey is the fact this could be construed as a rental. I haven't seen anything yet that covers spouses, close relatives etc living in a property, so if the property owner isn't there at the same time, again, this could be construed as a rental - even though no money changes hands.
I don't think anyone really knows how this is going to be policed, especially in tourist areas like Fethiye or Calis. Inspector is probably the man that'll hear something before anyone else as regards how they're doing it locally.
If you have a concern, then you need to get professional advice. I've answered a couple of questions but only because as the regulations stand they were easy to interpret and provide the answer. On the basis you could be fined an awful lot of money, making decisions based on what you read on ANY online forum is never a smart move :)
JF
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Thank you all for your kind comments. As I will be in Calis at the end of April I will make sure I have
covered myself but it looks as if it is going to cost me more money!! I will keep you all posted once I
have sorted the problem out.
Regards to you all.
Roy
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Thanks for the advice we are over in May so we might get a bit more info by then but we have never had the problem of renting out as we don't normally do it the wife saw the state of one of the apartments on our complex after some visitors had stayed (footprints on the ceiling come to mind) and decided not to, also we are in a position that we don't rely on renters
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Hello all,
Here is the link of offical document from ministery of internal affairs send to Police and Jandarma.
http://www.tursab.org.tr/dosya/15647/img004_15647_5379945.pdf
Article 3- Commanding ''Effectively investigete those properties''
I know its difficult but they will ask Muhtars and site menagements for short term rentals.
They will investigate on internet letting web sites.
Attention
If your guests have problem with site management or neighbours. They can call police and start the penalty process
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I know it's a common surname, but I always get an uncomfortable feeling whenever I see something 'signed' by a YILMAZ :-\
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Yilmaz in Turkey is like Smith in the U.K. I know a very nice couple called Yilmaz in Fethiye. Lynda & Yakup.
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Everyone keen to know the exact rules so they dn't fall foul of it, but nobody uncomfortable with the big brother 1984 feel of this?
If I had a property I'd not be feeling happy about this at all.
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What do you mean Inspector re if your guests have problem with site management or neighbours they can call polis and start the penalty process, it does not apply to us as we dont rent out but Im curious...sorry to be dim ;)
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Sounds like your guests or neighbours could 'shop' you if they think you haven't abided by the rules, and then you get fined.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So what's new...
Sorry Fran, you just brought out the cynic in me!
JF
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What do you mean Inspector re if your guests have problem with site management or neighbours they can call polis and start the penalty process, it does not apply to us as we dont rent out but Im curious...sorry to be dim ;)
I wanted to explain that its difficult to find who rents villa but,
For example you rent your villa to somebody and they are making to much noise. Neighbours will call police and tell them you rent villa every week differnt people coming and making noise.
Then police whill check on system and will see that villa is not a short term rental registered property.
Penalty process will start. :-(
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Thanks all of you for the update very informative
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Everyone keen to know the exact rules so they dn't fall foul of it, but nobody uncomfortable with the big brother 1984 feel of this?
If I had a property I'd not be feeling happy about this at all.
I get where you're coming from, but I think we have to put this into perspective - firstly, Turkey is under a state of emergency and has suffered several terrorist attacks over the past wee while and this is what prompted this legislation.
Secondly, you could argue that having renters details passed on to the Polis is exactly the same as if you book a hotel, a hostal or a pension. They all record your details and take a copy of your passport and this information ends up in "the system". Not just in Turkey, but many European countries do the same.
As I said previously, its a piece of legislation that was brought in to help fight terrorism and its unfortunate that foreign holiday home owners (who don't rent out their property) have been caught up in it.
However, if this is the worst thing that happens to foreign owners in the Fethiye area, as a result of the state of emergency, then I'd actually say its a result.
Can't believe I'm almost defending the government... mibbe I'll get a shoebox in the post ;)
JF
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Ok so what about Turkish owners who rent out to other Turkish folk,will they fall in line?
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Hi All after many years of just looking in I thought I would share the info we received today from NG who we only use as our maintanece company. I would love to see the Queues in Olundinez and Ovacick and Hisaronu in fact all over Turkey if this has to be on a daily basisI[] am all for supplying details of family staying however the chaos that the proposed system will cause is well :-\ :-\
Dear Owners
The Turkish government has introduced a new regulation where property owners who have short term rentals or guests have to declare the details of guests/visitors to the local Police/Jandarma. It is effective immediately.
Statutory Decree No. 678 was announced in the official newspaper on 22nd November 2016. It amends Law No. 1774 on the Declaration of Identities.
In the past the need for introducing a requirement to register visitors staying in villas and apartments was not required:
This new regulation has in fact come in as a result of the State of Emergency that has been declared in Turkey, and is primarily designed to help the authorities keep track of persons of interest. So it’s all about security. In reality the authorities are not especially interested in foreigners on holiday, but this new regulation covers everyone.
We have taken advice, asked the local authorities and searched online on how this new regulation is going to effect Homeowners.
Whilst there is an online reporting system for guests staying in hotels we have been told that currently this system will not be used for villa and apartment rentals, although given the sheer number of private rentals it would not surprise us if they do eventually introduce an online system.
The authorites require, details of the owners and property address along with a photocopy of the passport of all guests and indicate how many nights they are staying. (The page showing your personal details). This information must be submitted on the day of arrival and thereafter on a Daily basis.
These are the options owners have:
The property owner can do this themselves, you must take a copy of the guests passport (Information page) and create an invoice showing details of your name, property details, the period the invoice covers and amount the owner has charged in rent, the Tax Office will there after set the Owner up as a Sole Trader on the system and 20% of the rental fee will have to be paid in Tax this is the rate in which you have to pay for each booking, you will therfore need to instruct a chartered accountant.
If the property owner wants to instruct New Generation Rentals to carry out all the above in point one, there will be an admin fee of 5% of each rental booking along with any other fees payable, the owner will still have to pay 20% rental income tax. All monies for the rental along with the fees payable have to be sent to New Generation Rentals Bank Account as we will be generating the invoice.
New Generation Rentals if instructed to carry this out on the Owners behalf will request the passport information from the guests of the rental once the booking is confirmed.
The Owners and Guests information has to be hand delivered to the Jandarma station in Olu Deniz for Ovacik, Hisaronu and Oludeniz areas on a Daily basis.
If the owner instructs a third party agent you will need to make sure that they have a Travel Agent Licence.
Please note that this applies also to friends and family staying temporarily in the property.
If you do not have you property advertised for short term rent with New Generation Rental and advertise your property yourself or through another agent or have any non paying guests staying at your apartment or villa we would ask that you contact New Generation Rentals so that we can advise you on this before your guests arrive. These changes in law will apply to all Owners.
We are informed that these new regulations state that non-compliance can result in a penalty of a miniumn of 10,000 lira per booking.
The tax due on rental income from Turkish property is payable here in Turkey at 20% of the overall rental price. The Jandarma will automatically pass these details onto the local tax office.
If you need any further help about the above or about the rental tax we suggest getting in touch with New Generation Rentals so that we can be of assistance.
Regards
NGPS
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God help those who rent out or let family/friends stay for nothing in their property.
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So in reality, the only safe way is for those mentioned on the tapu to be present at any time the property is occupied. Otherwise it is a huge inconvenience or the prospect of a huge fine? :(
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Not a great place to have an affair
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Were you thinking along those lines Scunner ;D >:( ;D. Only joshing ;D
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If the owner instructs a third party agent you will need to make sure that they have a Travel Agent Licence.
Regards
NGPS
Absolute lies from NGPS - this has absolutely nothing to do with travel agents or licences - anyone can do it.
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I think I need to ask our managers if they have any thoughts on this for those who let family stay in their property. We have a large Sitesi with over 70 houses. Imagine the chaos if we all had family in at the same time.
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There would be no chaos - 70 people would have to make one declaration each..?
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There would be no chaos - 70 people would have to make one declaration each..?
Every day?
...and how easy will it be if you are not in Turkey?
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As easy as it is when you are in Turkey?
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Not easy unless you can do it online or you work with an agent :-\
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Not easy unless you can do it online or you work with an agent :-\
But to do it on-line you need to buy an app or something similar? I've looked and can't see any links to anything that looks like we can do it on-line. The season is upon us and once again it seems to be organised chaos.
Luckily we don't rent out but I worry about the day our family want to go out for a week or two.
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All the answers are in the topic. You buy a program and you connect to the police computer. I'd call than online unless you were thinking of turning up at the police station with your laptop and USB lead.
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All the answers are in the topic. You buy a program and you connect to the police computer. I'd call than online unless you were thinking of turning up at the police station with your laptop and USB lead.
Yes but where do you get it from? Have you a link in English where we can see it and buy it?
It's supposed to be in force now but it seems to me that nobody (other than those who can see a fast buck in it) understands what the hell to do.
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Inspector mentioned about the programme you need to install earlier in the thread, probably he has information about where you would buy one Stoop. He saidit starts from 300 TL
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Inspector mentioned about the programme you need to install earlier in the thread, probably he has information about where you would buy one Stoop. He saidit starts from 300 TL
Yes I know he did but I can't find anything relating to it on the internet (in English).
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So does anyone know how we can let the authorities know (from the UK) we have friends/family staying in our house?
It's looking more and more likely that we will have to instruct someone to do this for us and that it will cost us money to let our friends/family stay for free.
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Hi
My sister wants to stay at my house in turkey whilst I'm not there, does anyone know how I can set up (from uk) to inform the turkish authorities. The link from inspector opens up a document written in turkish. Thanks Jo
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They're buggers, those Turks with their documents all written in Turkish. :)
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I believe the program and forms are all in Turkish only, and rental is deemed as commercial - so you'll need a local accountant to fill in the form - and if the system is down they need to be printed and delivered by hand to the local police station. Another important point is that it relates to people staying overnight, and I think you need to report in 'real time' - so your report must be submitted between midnight and 2am - each night of occupation - so you won't be getting a good night's kip while you are renting. Oh, and if you rent but there is nobody renting, you have to provide daily reports for the empty nights too.
(Much info provided by Cenk at www.interturk.co.uk )
Good luck with the new regs
(http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/bullet.gif)
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Goodness this sounds like such a kerfuffle, we dont rent out and if we did I think i woukd be stopping doing so.. Why are they wanting owners to report on an empty property seems like a waste of time...
Just to clarify if only Derek and I ever stay in our apartment with no one else ever staying we dont have to do this do we?
I wonder how it will work when certain ' keyholders' from companies let their mates stay in empty properties we all know it goes on, I have seen cleaners go into apartments with armfuls of washing and obviiusly are doing their own washing whilst cleaning and getting a property ready for guests arriving ;) What i meant to add was will the owner of said property be the one getting the fine for 'not declaring' the overnight stay?
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I believe the program and forms are all in Turkish only, and rental is deemed as commercial - so you'll need a local accountant to fill in the form - and if the system is down they need to be printed and delivered by hand to the local police station. Another important point is that it relates to people staying overnight, and I think you need to report in 'real time' - so your report must be submitted between midnight and 2am - each night of occupation - so you won't be getting a good night's kip while you are renting. Oh, and if you rent but there is nobody renting, you have to provide daily reports for the empty nights too.
(Much info provided by Cenk at www.interturk.co.uk )
Good luck with the new regs
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So how do they know who rents and who doesn't? Or does everyone who owns a property but doesn't live there 24/365 have to complete the forms?
Turkey at its best!
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And I can't see any info relating to it on that link.
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They don't need to know if you rent - but if you don't declare it and (say) your neighbours complain about rowdy guests in your place, your failure to declare will be charged at 5,000 TL per day.
If you don't rent out ever, and use your own property for your own immediate family use only, you don't need to do all this.
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And I can't see any info relating to it on that link.
I didn't post a link about this
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I believe the program and forms are all in Turkish only, and rental is deemed as commercial - so you'll need a local accountant to fill in the form - and if the system is down they need to be printed and delivered by hand to the local police station. Another important point is that it relates to people staying overnight, and I think you need to report in 'real time' - so your report must be submitted between midnight and 2am - each night of occupation - so you won't be getting a good night's kip while you are renting. Oh, and if you rent but there is nobody renting, you have to provide daily reports for the empty nights too.
(Much info provided by Cenk at www.interturk.co.uk )
Good luck with the new regs
(http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/bullet.gif)
That's the link. I can't find any info on the new regs.
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I didn't say there was any info there. I said I got the info from Cenk at Interturk
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Confused ..Nothing is simple in Turkey :o :-\
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I think as it stands (and I bet it will change) that if you rent out or let friends and family stay (even if you are not charging them) you need to notify the authorities whether it be online or in person but if you are the owner you don't need to notify.
for me a some of questions need to be clarified
1) if guests are staying with the owner does the owner still need to register the guests
2) will the owner need to have there Tapu with them when staying (I leave mine in the UK)
3) will notification have to be done on a daily, weekly or length of stay basis
I am sure there will be more questions over the next few months but these have come to mind
I can understand why this is being done but as a lot of things that are required the implementation and the interpretation can be so different from office to office
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Fethiye times has updated advice about this. From what is said in the article, the software needed for this is free after registering at the Gendarme headquarters, for Fethiye,in 2nd Karagozler. You need to take originals and copies of Turkish ID card, or passport and residency. You also need a paper confirming the address of the property, this can be obtained from your local mukhtar or the Nufus office in Fethiye.
Article states you will be shown how to use the software and that it is not complicated!
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21090-updated-legislation-short-term-property-rentals.html#
Two things strike me:
1. The software is free but no mention of other languages.
2. It seems the owner has to be in the country to set it up as the original passport is required.
So what happens if the owner is not the first person in the property this year?
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1. The software is free but no mention of other languages.
They're under no obligation to provide it in anything other than Turkish, and you could ask why should they?
2. It seems the owner has to be in the country to set it up as the original passport is required.
Given that this new regulation is part of a security crack down (and tax revenue earning initiative) that comes across as entirely reasonable to me.
JF
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1) if guests are staying with the owner does the owner still need to register the guests
Only if they are staying for longer than 30 days.
2) will the owner need to have there Tapu with them when staying (I leave mine in the UK)
Nothing to suggest that is the case, so far! Just to be on safe side you could always bring a photocopy
3) will notification have to be done on a daily, weekly or length of stay basis
That's not entirely clear as yet.
Just my interpretation by the way.
JF
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I think this will have a big impact on tourism numbers because if you don't need to rent then this will put you off letting friends and family use the property and if you are for wont of a better description a professional you will put the added costs on to the customer which will make it more expensive and with the price of flights being on the high side, all round the idea of a cheap holiday has gone.
Fortunately for me I don't need to rent and since the troubles have escalated over the last year a lot of my friends now don't consider Turkey as safe destination and looking at the cost of flights compared to other beach holidays it puts Turkey right to the back of the queue
The biggest down side is that my 29 year old daughter just said "that's all right dad we will just come with you" not saying she's a pain but : :)
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Speaking to an agent they say you need to be in Turkey (owner) to register first. This can't be done online. (Difficult if you already have guests booked) also property has to be updated daily even if empty, this can be done online once you have system set up. I would expect if you have good neighbours then they would complain to you first. I think this new system will take a while to sort out, especially as there are so many holiday rentals to cover.
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It now appears that the article in the Fethiye times was misinterpreted so an update will be published. Apparently the free soft ware referred to is only available to legal business entities. More confusion!
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Sounds like there may be a good opportunity here for a maintenance company to get in ahead of the game - get their act together and they could take away the headaches that regular renters are having over these new regulations.
As an existing registered business they could get the software for free and as they'd be acting for owners, it may remove the necessity for the owners to "act as a business".
JF
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1. The software is free but no mention of other languages.
They're under no obligation to provide it in anything other than Turkish, and you could ask why should they?
2. It seems the owner has to be in the country to set it up as the original passport is required.
Given that this new regulation is part of a security crack down (and tax revenue earning initiative) that comes across as entirely reasonable to me.
JF
That's really helpful - thanks.
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My pleasure.
JF
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Yes John F that's correct. Agents will do for you with an additional charge I'm told. Also if you haven't already registered then this needs to be done in person. This is the info i received via email.
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This is the email i received today.......
From what I have gathered I believe unless you are already registered at the council office and declaring your rental tax year year you will need to come over first to register before you have any guests, they then give you a number and when you have guests we can imput the information on your behalf.
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My understanding was that rentals being classed as commercial means an accountant needs to be employed to submit these. We shall see.
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IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PROPERTY OWNERS
Summary of New Regulations for Daily rental houses villas and aparts.
As you remember after the terrorist attacks in istanbul Ministery of Internal Affairs changed the regulations.
Summary of changes for daily weekly rental properties.
1- Owner of the property have to apply to Police or Jandarma and register it as a rental property.
2- After the registration they will give you a password.
3- You need to buy a program and install it in your computer. Cost of program is starting from 300 lira for one villa
4- When you finish instalation you have to send list of people in the property every thay between 24.00/02.00
5- You have to send a empty list even if there is nobody in the property every day
6- At the end of the season you can apply to Police /Jandarma and suspend your account till the next season.
Attention
If you start renting your villa daily and weekly before doing those written above. Fined is starting from 10000 Lira (2200£)
If you dont send your guest list for one day (even when there is nobody) fine is 5000 Lira (1100£)
You need to inform the guests. if somebody comes as their guest and stays at the property and you are not informed and dont send on daily list, you will be fined again.
Police will send the accomidation lists to tax office and you have to be carefull, keep documents receipts for each entry and pay the tax.
Its not clear yet that if they will get tax with simple declaration or will ask an accountant to register you as a busines.
No need these process for long term rentals with contract.
Hello Article 5 is changed you dont need to send empty list if there is nobody at house. You will just send the list if there is people in the house.
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Thank you for posting Inspector...that is a little bit better that you dont have to do the list if the property is empty. So when you purchase the software this is going to have to be installed in either a stand alone computer or possibly a laptop? So many folk I know only have tablets and phones...will there be an English version of the software available, whilst I realise this will be done in Turkey the majority of folk who rent out their prooerties are foreigners...
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According to the recent article in the Fethiye Times there is no charge for the software.
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According to the recent article in the Fethiye Times there is no charge for the software.
Yes but nobody seems to know who will be allowed to use it and if it will be in any language other than Turkish.
After all they have no requirement to make it easy for foreign owners ;)
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Just found this. Interesting that apartments on Sitesis cannot be rented out short term / holiday lets.
https://docmartinssurgeryforexpatsinturkeyblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/15/renting-your-turkish-property-out-taxation-info-also-tenants-rights/
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That's interesting Stoop. Do we know what constitutes a sitese? If, as I am thinking, it is any complex with, say, 12 aparts on, there will be an awful lot of property owners who bought with the hope that they could rent to cushion the running costs and may now find themselves without any income and stuck with a property they can ill afford to keep!
I used the example above only because it was the setup we owned on and I know that several of the owners bought Expecting, and relying in some cases, on holiday rental income.
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As far as I'm aware, a sitesi is simply a term for a group of buildings. It doesn't have any legal standing as a term, so no minimum or maximum numbers associated with it.
JF
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So is this article implying that it will be illegal to short term rent from any (or most) residential properties?
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Meant to add "unless it is registered as a business".
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Its not very clear.
Until folks actually start to use the new system(s), and more accurate information becomes available about how local authorities are interpreting the legislation, I don't think anyone is really going to know where they stand.
This is Turkey and different provinces and local areas tend to interpret new legislation differently.
JF
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Fortunately, we are in the position where we don't need to rent our apartment for financial stability. What we have done is have friends and family stay two or three times a year, paying a nominal amount to cover things like electricity and water.
By the time I've sorted out and paid for an accountant and for the tiny amounts involved it's just not worth the bother of even charging this nominal fee. Couple this with this new rule of having to log in and update the police every single night, this will be the last year where we'll share our Turkish home with those close to us.
I'm sure other property owners who casually, not commercially rent, will be thinking the same.
Seems just when tourism is back on the up, the powers that be have just managed to shoot themselves in the foot with a badly implemented scheme.
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Fortunately, we are in the position where we don't need to rent our apartment for financial stability. What we have done is have friends and family stay two or three times a year, paying a nominal amount to cover things like electricity and water.
By the time I've sorted out and paid for an accountant and for the tiny amounts involved it's just not worth the bother of even charging this nominal fee. Couple this with this new rule of having to log in and update the police every single night, this will be the last year where we'll share our Turkish home with those close to us.
I'm sure other property owners who casually, not commercially rent, will be thinking the same.
Seems just when tourism is back on the up, the powers that be have just managed to shoot themselves in the foot with a badly implemented scheme.
Yes - they always seem to manage to find a way :(
I wonder how many tourists will be lost now due to this? Hopefully if the State of Emergency ends then this might as well but I won't hold my breath.
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One more nail in the Turkish Tourism coffin.
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Thing is, if you take this to the enth degree, and I have a lot of friends who still have properties out there, the market could be flooded with "for sale" properties. The obvious result of this will be a drop in property prices. Not only does this have an affect on the vendors, but also on the financial market of the country as a whole (given the importance of house prices on the economy in the U.K. ).
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WHat if you rent your property out, advise the police correctly, and the renters have casual local lovers stay. It has, I believe, been known to happen.
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No !!
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Forgive me if I am being thick,but I really cannot see how this can be completely monitored in the way its intended.
As Scunner pointed out what happens if your renter brings a friend for the night,I think this rule may be sent back to the drawing board.
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I don't think it can ever be completely monitored - hence the low risk of detection/huge penalty ratio chosen.
I would imagine detection will mainly come from people reporting neighbours and acquaintances. That should bring in plenty in Calis alone.
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If there was a brothel in Turkey would the "guests" have to be reported to the Police with full names and addresses.
This could ruin business. ;D :o 8) :-X :P
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If there was a brothel in Turkey ...
Unthinkable !!!
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No shortage of brothels in Turkey.
Even do tours to them, note the 30% discount if you're over 60 Colwyn ;)
http://istanbulbrothels.com/
JF
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And there's me thinking all their customers were "Johns".
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Touché
:)
JF
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According to the recent article in the Fethiye Times there is no charge for the software.
Yes there is free version on Police and Jandarma web sites. But its not a user friendly program. You need to fill in details manualy everyday. There is pay softwares easy to use and starting from 200 lira. I searched for engilish supporting software but couldnt find.
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We are considering renting our Apartment out for long term rental for next year as it seems like less hassle. We can try somewhere different for a change, Never been to Bodrum or Izmir. :)
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So how does the long term rental situation work, did i read you dont need to let the authorities know if you have a long term renter in your property, just do the tax side of things but no need to buy the software etc?
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Think that's the case karennina unless they change it. I read it as that anyway. :)
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21269-giykimbil-system-short-term-property-rentals-turkey.html
This is the latest info and it looks like a very big nail in the tourist coffin!
Look at the cost of running this. Ok the software is free but you have to instruct an accountant and an agent to run things for you. It's just not going to be worth it for most foreign owners.
Some cheap villas to flood the market soon I guess.
"What are the fixed costs?
There are a number of fixed costs associated with the scheme. Should you wish to continue renting your property, in order to ensure that you are abiding by the current rules outlined within the amendment; each property owner will be required to instruct the services of an accountant and a legally employed responsible property manager residing in Turkey to communicate with the authorities.
Currently, initial start up costs for registering as a business is approximately 5,000 TL (tax deductible)
On-going costs once registered as a business is approximately 3,000 TL per month excluding income tax (tax deductible) Plus 1,128 TL per year as a one off payment (tax deductible)."
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I thought there was some light in this statement but it appears it has to be your permanent home. I've asked for clarification.
"Subsequently, as long as there is no payment involved, it is the owner(s) primary residence and there is no evidence of marketing (be it online: via a website, through social media, or by word of mouth), their families, relatives or friends are free to use the property and do not have to inform the authorities of their arrival or departure using the GIYKIMBIL System."
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The start up costs they quote are a bit on the light side, it's likely to be closer to 6,000tl and each additional director/partner adds about 500tl.
I don't know where they get the ongoing monthly costs of 3,000tl as apart from the monthly accountants fee and a number of smallish taxes, this figure is wholly dependent on turnover.
One important point is that unlike in the UK, once you've set up a limited company you're stuck with it! Closing down a limited company is Turkey can take up to two years, during which you're still liable for accountants fees, taxes and any social security payments.
JF
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I only let my immediate family (two daughters and their families) stay at my place when I'm not there (without charge). If I were to add their names to my tapu would that get me around all these issues?
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On the face of it, yes.
You could also "rent" it to them long term at a low enough figure to fall below the tax reporting threshold - not 100% sure what the up to date figure is but it was 3,200tl per annum a year or two ago. Given the costs involved with adding names to a tapu even if you did pay a few quid in tax you'd probably still be ahead of the game medium term.
JF
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I seem to be getting some positive answers on the FT article page. It seems that if you only ever used it yourself and intend to keep it that way then you do not have to register. I've just asked if this includes letting close family members stay in the past or in the future as we have done this and wish to continue letting our family stay in the future. However if we have to register the property in order to do this then we might as well sell up to be honest.
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Well according to the guy on the Fethiye Times link if you have never rented out and have no intention of renting out then you can just continue as you always have.
No need to register and no need to worry according to him.
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This is a quote in the FT Q& A section which supports what Stoop is saying:
"the law (2013) and the legislative amendment (November 2016) is clear; if you’ve ever rented (advertised for profit making) that means you wanted business, as far as authorities concerned. If you have not, you do not need to worry. Nobody has any right to query who your (unpaid) guest is under the new project. They are after long time tax dodgers and terrorists and it seems they have a long list of ” fishy business” operating out of turkey and but transferring profit."
This quote is from:
Doğan Şahin?
Doğan is a graduate of Selcuk University Faculty of Education in Turkey. He lived abroad for about 20 years. He is a Professional English language translator and interpreter accredited by National Accreditation Authority of Translators and Interpreters in Australia (NAATI) and has successfully provided Contracts-Legal translation services to international official and private organizations for over 30 years.
He is registered as an expert witness at Muğla City Justice Commission. He has published four books, two of them being translations. His articles on Tourism, History and Social Life as well as Blue Cruise Holidays have appeared in many journals and newspapers.
Doğan Şahin will be happy to provide the owners with further details to deal with all legal requirements arising from the new legislation, as well as ways to lower the costs of forming a company and running a legitimate short term let business.
This is his email:gocyolu@hotmail.com
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Yes but now the Fethiye times have deleted all the questions and answers and locked the topic!
Typical when we were getting somewhere.
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It's all still there.
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21269-giykimbil-system-short-term-property-rentals-turkey.html
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Yes it was locked late last night and a glitch made everything go belly up. Back up now.
I think for those worried it's important they reads the article and Dogan's answers. Then make a decision based on their previous and future position with regard to renting their property.
He seems very knowledgable and I think we can take what he says as correct.
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I thought there was some light in this statement but it appears it has to be your permanent home. I've asked for clarification.
"Subsequently, as long as there is no payment involved, it is the owner(s) primary residence and there is no evidence of marketing (be it online: via a website, through social media, or by word of mouth), their families, relatives or friends are free to use the property and do not have to inform the authorities of their arrival or departure using the GIYKIMBIL System."
Stoop - I think that may be answered in the comments section. Dogan has written in answer too that same question:
'No. It is for all owners who declared to the tax office that they did not and will not use the property for rental business, whether the property is a holiday home or main residence.'
As long as that statement is right (would be good to get some official line) then it would seem that I need do nothing. I only have close friends and family staying at our apartment on just three occasions this year and we are charging no rent.
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Be careful about close friends. Police can take them as a tenants and fine you. How can you prove that they are not tenants ? It is a big risk...
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Its fine this guy writing in FT that you'll be ok if you've never rented before, but is he going to be there to pay the fine if the local authorities decide your auntie Jeany and her six kids are actually short term tenants?
I don't think anyone really knows how this is going to pan out in tourist areas, and personally I'd be a bit wary about allowing unpaid guests to use our place (still ours for another four weeks) until we have a better idea of how this is going to be policed. Not very convenient I know, especially when folks need to arrange flights etc, but given the level of fines that can be levied I'd rather play safe.
A lot of local hotel and pension owners will be rubbing their hands in glee over this one.
JF
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Its fine this guy writing in FT that you'll be ok if you've never rented before, but is he going to be there to pay the fine if the local authorities decide your auntie Jeany and her six kids are actually short term tenants?
I don't think anyone really knows how this is going to pan out in tourist areas, and personally I'd be a bit wary about allowing unpaid guests to use our place (still ours for another four weeks) until we have a better idea of how this is going to be policed. Not very convenient I know, especially when folks need to arrange flights etc, but given the level of fines that can be levied I'd rather play safe.
A lot of local hotel and pension owners will be rubbing their hands in glee over this one.
JF
The problem there is, those who are staying at our place have already booked their flights way before these regulations came in!
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Be careful about close friends. Police can take them as a tenants and fine you. How can you prove that they are not tenants ? It is a big risk...
I would guess you if you can prove your association with that person by some means (maybe several years of Friendship on Facebook??) then that may be acceptable.
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For us it will be family only. If friends wish to go I would have to recommend a package anyway - much cheaper these days.
Bottom line is fewer will be going as people will not pay the costs involved. Local businesses lose out again!
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[quote aut
Be careful about close friends. Police can take them as a tenants and fine you. How can you prove that they are not tenants ? It is a big risk...
I would guess you if you can prove your association with that person by some means (maybe several years of Friendship on Facebook??) then that may be acceptable.
hor=Ian_and_Sian link=topic=62801.msg436298#msg436298 date=1490267444]
Be careful about close friends. Police can take them as a tenants and fine you. How can you prove that they are not tenants ? It is a big risk...
I would guess you if you can prove your association with that person by some means (maybe several years of Friendship on Facebook??) then that may be acceptable.
[/quote]
I dont think it will be accepted. The fine for not registering the property that is being rented out for short terms is 10.000 TL. No need to take a huge risk.
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News from today's newspaper. In istanbul, 1210 short term rental houses are checked. 550 of them are closed, 283 of them are fined 2.022.501 TL in total. Nothing is done to 179 of them that obey the rules.
http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2017/ekonomi/yasa-disi-calisan-gundelik-evlere-ceza-yagdi-1751441/
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They certainly mean business then! Rental for self catering will disappear and guess what will happen to the price of hotel rooms. : :)
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So glad we sold if we visit Calis again a small friendly hotel will nicely thank you.
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So glad we sold if we visit Calis again a small friendly hotel will nicely thank you.
We are in the same position - having sold (for fhe asking price in mid October) - we will miss the stunning landscapes and some truly lovely people terribly - but we felt it was time to go.
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The rules state somewhere that if only direct family members who share the same surname of the owner stay in the property there would be no rental tax due on the presumption that an owner wouldn't charge his own son, 'unmarried' daughter, or parents a rental fee. Therefore, further presuming that the property is not registered for Rental Income Tax because it is only used by the same-surname family/families. Best to change your name to Smith and advertise only to the Smiths! I feel a song.....
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We have not sold, we like our place and we have very nice neighbours, but we don't and never have rented. Love our place too much to allow strangers to stay there.
I know there are buyers ready to offer and we have already been asked by an Estate Agent if we want to sell.
We will keep on visiting and and keep on enjoying our time in Calis.
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The rules state somewhere that if only direct family members who share the same surname of the owner stay in the property there would be no rental tax due on the presumption that an owner wouldn't charge his own son, 'unmarried' daughter, or parents a rental fee. Therefore, further presuming that the property is not registered for Rental Income Tax because it is only used by the same-surname family/families. Best to change your name to Smith and advertise only to the Smiths! I feel a song.....
Huge flaw in that is that the parents of virtually every married woman wouldn't be able to stay at their own daughter's house!
(Huge benefit is us blokes never have to put up with the mother-in-law while enjoying a cold Efes or two! ;) )
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The rules state somewhere that if only direct family members who share the same surname of the owner stay in the property there would be no rental tax due on the presumption that an owner wouldn't charge his own son, 'unmarried' daughter, or parents a rental fee. Therefore, further presuming that the property is not registered for Rental Income Tax because it is only used by the same-surname family/families. Best to change your name to Smith and advertise only to the Smiths! I feel a song.....
Who told you that?
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The rules state somewhere that if only direct family members who share the same surname of the owner stay in the property there would be no rental tax due on the presumption that an owner wouldn't charge his own son, 'unmarried' daughter, or parents a rental fee. Therefore, further presuming that the property is not registered for Rental Income Tax because it is only used by the same-surname family/families. Best to change your name to Smith and advertise only to the Smiths! I feel a song.....
Huge flaw in that is that the parents of virtually every married woman wouldn't be able to stay at their own daughter's house!
(Huge benefit is us blokes never have to put up with the mother-in-law while enjoying a cold Efes or two! ;) )
Naughty step for you Ian.
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According to the recent article in the Fethiye Times there is no charge for the software.
Yes there is free version on Police and Jandarma web sites. But its not a user friendly program. You need to fill in details manualy everyday. There is pay softwares easy to use and starting from 200 lira. I searched for engilish supporting software but couldnt find.
If your property in police region you have to buy a pay software and you have to have a static ip adress (this is clearly explained on Police web site. )
http://www.asayis.pol.tr/Sayfalar/kimlikbildirmeprojesi.aspx
That means you cant do the process from other pc and locations.
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Hi Inspector, it states 30+beds on the link?
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Hi Inspector, it states 30+beds on the link?
30 beds changed with the new regulations. They did not update the web site yet.:-)
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According to the recent article in the Fethiye Times there is no charge for the software.
Yes there is free version on Police and Jandarma web sites. But its not a user friendly program. You need to fill in details manualy everyday. There is pay softwares easy to use and starting from 200 lira. I searched for engilish supporting software but couldnt find.
If your property in police region you have to buy a pay software and you have to have a static ip adress (this is clearly explained on Police web site. )
http://www.asayis.pol.tr/Sayfalar/kimlikbildirmeprojesi.aspx
That means you cant do the process from other pc and locations.
Technically, you can only have a static IP address if you only ever connect to one single network. If I set a static IP address on my laptop it needs to be in the IP range of my router, as soon as I move to a different network with a different router then I lose all connectivity.
So, to put it simply, if I set up the software on my laptop at home in the UK, and if I have to report in every single day whether I have people staying at my Calis apartment or not, I can now never leave my house between 10pm and 11:30pm (UK time) because I have to submit details from one single laptop connected to my home network.
This really is the most ill-thought out plan in the history of ill-thought out plans - and the communication to those of us it affects has been appallingly and consistently contradictory and confusing.
I am seriously considering personally refunding the flight costs of the three friends and family members who booked way before any of this blew-up because it will be cheaper for me. They were going to be staying rent-free during this year but, with the cost of this new software, rumblings of having to start a company at 5000TL plus the ongoing costs of that and the costs of accountants just to prove I'm taking no rent, I am going to be seriously out of pocket either way.
For me, all the uncertainly is proving quite stressful and the Turkish dream is starting to turn a little sour - I can only hope that the powers that be look again at the situation for those of us who do not rent out out properties commercially only enjoy sharing them with those close to us.
There, rant over and.....breathe!
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Technically, you can only have a static IP address if you only ever connect to one single network. If I set a static IP address on my laptop it needs to be in the IP range of my router, as soon as I move to a different network with a different router then I lose all connectivity.
You're wrong.
A static, as opposed to a dynamic, IP address is allocated by your internet provider and has nothing to do with the machine you connect with. Most internet providers use dynamic allocation meaning when you connect to the internet your IP address can be anything within a set range. With a static IP address, when you connect to the internet your IP address is fixed.
Generally speaking, its a simple matter to request a static IP from your internet provider. Some make a small charge, others don't - TTNet don't charge as far as I'm aware.
This really is the most ill-thought out plan in the history of ill-thought out plans - and the communication to those of us it affects has been appallingly and consistently contradictory and confusing.
Actually its not. What you are forgetting is that you purchased a property in Turkey - a country whose recent history has been volatile with numerous coups and governments whose motives could be described as best as dubious. That's not a criticism, just a plain fact - our connections with Turkey go back to the early eighties and even after selling our properties in Turkey we still can't shake off the affection (or connections) for the country and its people.
Currently, Turkey is operating under a state of emergency. Taking aside the purges against opponents of the government there is a big problem with domestic terrorism, maybe its that old "Fethiye bubble" effect that shields a lot of folks from what is actually happening in Turkey. The bottom line is that the Turkish government brought this law in to keep track of individuals who are temporary residents, which the majority of those identified in the recent attacks have been.
The effect of this law on foreign holiday home owners is looking to be significant but you have to look at in the context that a) its mainly foreigners its affecting and b) its only a small number of foreign owners that'll be affected. Yes, there will be Turks who will have to change their business model, but again, its only a small number.
I hope the governors of the affected provinces (around the SW coast mainly) are doing their best to work something out - they don't want to see loss of revenue this season, last year was bad enough. Maybe common sense will prevail? Who knows.
JF
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I've moved the IP address stuff to a separate topic:
http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=62910.0;topicseen
JF
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The updates from FT are coming thick and fast in the comments section. Worth a read - especially for those who have never rented and do not intend to rent and are worried that their family cannot stay without them being present.
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21269-giykimbil-system-short-term-property-rentals-turkey.html
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To be frank, I wouldn't care if the wee fella himself commented on there - I'd still get professional advice. At least one person on there who I suspect has a different agenda to most participants.
JF
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I had just read the FT article and was about to post the URL, when I saw that Stoop had already done so. As I read it, this article indicates that friends and family who stay at no cost, do not need to be notified and the property does not need to be registered. However,if the property had been advertised in any way previously, the owner still needs to register and declare that it will not be let commercially in the future.
This sort of makes sense and would certainly cause less grief for the friend and family only owners but does seem to veer away from this being a question of national security and becomes more of a tax collection issue.
This all seems to be a transient situation, so where do we go for the definitive article?
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Well both the guys giving the advice appear to have excellent credentials.
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Good Evening All, I have been readung about the new rules for holiday lets. The new procedures seem rather concerning having to go online on a daily basis. I sold my 2 bed apartment in Calis in November 2016 whuch I had owned since 2009.
This year wil be the first time of holidaying elsewhere as I have enjoyed our holidays in Calis. I ust hooe the turkish authorities revisit this new procedure as it seems ridiculously complicated for all owners
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Would the first person to go through the "I used to let but I promise I won't do it again so give me a tax amnesty" process kindly post on here to let the rest of us know how painless or painful the process is?
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We have never rented out, we intended to in the beginning but then decided not to as we loved our little place in the sun sooo much, i took on an extra job at the time to cover costs etc...
I have been reading the rules etc on the FT link and Im very curious to know how on earth is this going to be policed/ proven re all the folk who have rented their property out over past years, say someone who does rent out or has in the past is adamant they only ever had friends and family staying in the property and no payment was made how can it ever be proven money did exchange hands in order for the tax to be claimed back?
I agree with the other member that intially it was about national security and does seem now to be turning into ' collecting taxes' and the fines are extorinate...
We know of several people who are saying along with expensive flights and now this that it is time to sell up, this is surely not going to help the tourism situation in Turkey one bit...
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It will probably be a case of property owners trying to prove a negative. The Turkish Taxman says you've been paid. You've got to prove that you haven't or you pay the tax that they've assessed. ;)
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This doesn't affect us does it? We rent on a long term co ntract. The kids and family will be over in the summer, obviously At no charge.
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I am reading on T.A that people who have booked apartments and Villa's have had the rental owners getting in touch with them cancelling the lets and giving back deposits. Quite a few people are complaining, one lady who was getting married and booked for herself and guests, has had all accommodation cancelled. Looks like a lot of renters have decided that this new move may be too much hassle and to much money for them. :o >:(
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The rules state somewhere that if only direct family members who share the same surname of the owner stay in the property there would be no rental tax due on the presumption that an owner wouldn't charge his own son, 'unmarried' daughter, or parents a rental fee. Therefore, further presuming that the property is not registered for Rental Income Tax because it is only used by the same-surname family/families. Best to change your name to Smith and advertise only to the Smiths! I feel a song.....
Still wondering where you got this information from?
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Good news
Police system is been updated. They informed us that static ip will be only for hotels. For aparts and villas no need statik ip you can connect from anywhere. But again police told you have to buy a software. There is many software to do that (more than 30) cheapest one 250.
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This was the reply I got from Dogan Sahin via the FT article:
"Yes close family can stay and no you do not have to inform authorities, provided you do not operate as business"
Doğan Sahin
I know it's not formal legal advice but he appears to have decent credentials.
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At 5,000 lira a night penalty if he's wrong, you seem pretty relaxed about his advice being reliable.
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This is a very concise and interesting post on FB. It should answer a lot of questions for people.
Seems many have nothing to fear. Others will have to register as a business and comply with the new laws.
https://www.facebook.com/volkan.hacigumus/posts/10154682412023220
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For those CBFers not on Facebook, here's a direct link to Legal Rentals Turkey's webpage:
http://legalrentalsturkey.com/faqs-2/
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Cheers KKOB :)
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At least one person on there who I suspect has a different agenda to most participants.
For those CBFers not on Facebook, here's a direct link to Legal Rentals Turkey's webpage:
Looks like I was correct then, when you look at "our team". Look out for more businesses like this springing up in the next few weeks.
Just a pity their web site doesn't work properly - as first point of client contact if they can't get the basics right...
JF
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At least one person on there who I suspect has a different agenda to most participants.
For those CBFers not on Facebook, here's a direct link to Legal Rentals Turkey's webpage:
Looks like I was correct then, when you look at "our team". Look out for more businesses like this springing up in the next few weeks.
Just a pity their web site doesn't work properly - as first point of client contact if they can't get the basics right...
JF
I'm sure there will be many making money out of the new rules. However I have no idea what your post means with regard to who is in their team.
All I'm bothered about is getting the correct information so that we do not fall foul of the new rules. Like many owners I suspect.
Are you saying the information is incorrect in any way or that we should ignore what they say?
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Just a pity their web site doesn't work properly - as first point of client contact if they can't get the basics right...
JF
Seems to be working just fine for me.
Have you tried switching it off and back on again ?
;)
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Working fine on my iPad too.
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Just a pity their web site doesn't work properly - as first point of client contact if they can't get the basics right...
JF
Seems to be working just fine for me.
The FAQ page isn't for me. Click on a question and nothing happens, no "answer" appears - same thing with FF, Chrome and Edge.
JF
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Thank you for your feedback.
Our Technical Team at whogivesatoss.com aim to deal with your enquiry within 48 hours. Yeah we aim, but you'd be surprised at how bad shots we are !
;)
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Defo working on IE.
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However I have no idea what your post means with regard to who is in their team.
One of the "experts" replying to comments in the FT article is a partner in this business, but then again, you'd have known that as you've been on their web site...
It doesn't sit right with me when you have a scenario such as this and one of the individuals providing advice is also poised to make money from it.
I'm not questioning the individuals integrity, I'm sure he's a nice guy and good at his job organising tours in the Dalyan area - in fact his feedback as a tour organiser is excellent it would appear. However, this is an important subject for many and if I were going to be caught up in it, I'd look for truly independent advice.
Its worth remembering that in Turkey, every thing legal works under the premise of "strict liability", i.e. if you receive bad advice and inadvertently break the law, its you that pays the price, not the advisor.
Are you saying the information is incorrect in any way or that we should ignore what they say?
I prefer to get my information from (for me) more established sources - as I couldn't easily read their FAQ I've no idea whether its accurate or not.
JF
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Defo working on IE.
IE? You still on Windows 3.11 by any chance ;)
Still doesn't work for me, but not overly fussed. No need for us to be bothered now :)
JF
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"One of the "experts" replying to comments in the FT article is a partner in this business, but then again, you'd have known that as you've been on their web site..."
Well yes I guess I would know that seeing as he has mentioned it in the FT comments.
Im at a loss to know which "expert" we can trust provide us with the correct information as surely most, if not all, will have some business interest.
As usual within Turkey though we tend to get the information in dribs and drabs, mixed with ex-pat interpretation (not meaning you JF) such as above where someone said that its in the rules somewhere that only family members with the same surname can use your property.
I don't think it will affect us too much but I know many who let family and friends stay for the cost of the electricity and water. It's those who are most worried about this new law.
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Defo working on IE.
IE? You still on Windows 3.11 by any chance ;)
I'm at work mate. Don't have a choice. The septics I work for think it's the best thing since they introduced iron horses. ;)
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Defo working on IE.
IE? You still on Windows 3.11 by any chance ;)
I'm at work mate. Don't have a choice. The septics who run the IT for the company I work for think it's the best thing since they introduced iron horses. ;)
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At 5,000 lira a night penalty if he's wrong, you seem pretty relaxed about his advice being reliable.
I'll just start a crowd funding page if I receive a fine! ;D
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There is a serious information pollution of the daily weekly renters to their houses. Even the authorities are not entirely sovereign. I wanted to learn from the right sources by sharing the details of the information obtained. I got this information by talking to the tax office manager and the police officers. I hope it helps solve your problems. Even I am tired of new application information that changes and comes in every day. Please inform me about genuine information you get about issue, than we can update information to help eachother.
And again I inform you about this morning regulations and dont know what will happen in the afternoon
1-Where do I need to apply for registering short term daily weekly letting registration on ID system?
You need to apply to office who is responsable for your area. For jandarma region Karagözler Jandarma office, for police region Gunlukbasi Police station
2- Is the ID reporting program a paid program?
First of all, it is necessary to install your computer by downloading the link and file sending program from its own sites for both police and gendarmerie. This program will let you to connect to Jandarma or police to send the created guest list. This is a free software provided by goverment.
You need another program to create the guest list. This programs simple version provided free by Jandarma but If your property in police region you have to buy a software (price starting from 250-300 lira) It can be purchased and installed from the Internet. Most of them in Turkish but there is only one with english menu support that I could find. All software companies giving online support on phone and live support of their web sites. When you buy the software be sure that they have support team in English.
3- Do I need to use a static IP number when using this program?
There is no static IP number requirement for daily weekly rental villas and apartments.
4- Do I need to keep the customer information by keeping a notebook, or is the sending guest list to the system is enough?
You need to print daily guest list and keep it in a file for 5 years.
5- What should I do if I can not report because of a problem with my system or my computer?
You have 3 days to solve the computer or connection problems, otherwise you will be fined. Till the problem solved, you need to print and drop the guest list to the Police or Jandarma office between 2.00 am - 4.00 am.
6 - If I do not need static IP number, can I sent guest list from anywhere and from any computer? Is there a possibility to make a notification from abroad?
System will not let connection from abroad and they may bring area restrictions in Turkey. ( example Property registration in Fethiye then system will let only MUGLA region IP numbers to connect)
7- I do not use my house for commercial purposes, my close relatives cousin and my sister and brother sometimes come here for a holiday, do I still have to register and get a password?
Regulations done for rental comercial activities, if it is investigated you will need to prove parentship to get rid of 10000 lira penalty.
8- In summer I am staying by myself, but from time to time my friends and relatives come and stay with me as a guest without pay, do I have problems in this situation?
Officers told that if this is not a commercial activity no need to register but they will be asked if they pay for their stay in the house on routine controls
9- Do I need to send guest list everyday between 12.00 and 01.30 after registering the system.
There is no time limit on sending the guest list for villa-house rentals, everyday between 12.00 and 01.30is a rule for hotels.
You need to do daily proces when there is guest at property. If there is no guest in house no need to send empty guest list.
10- After registering with the Police-Gendarmerie system and receive the password, do I have to register as a tradesman at tax office? Or will we file a declaration according to the general rental income system as long term rentals
Tax office menager told us that daily weekly rentals can not be recodnized as rental income. This is a trading activity and must be registered.
Registration cost is 300 lira including the offical stamped receipt and income notebook. ( I get that info from an accountant)
11- Is there a requirement to bill for all customers?
You have to bill for quests and keep them in a file. Your accountant have to prepare monthly income and expences decleration. Accountants will charge you 150 lira for monthly decleration. You can freeze your tax registration for the winter time and dont pay to accountant.
12- Do I have to hold an accountant?
Yes you have to have (Tax office menager informed)
13- Do I have to bill and pay tax for my relatives who dont pay any penny. How system will work, if my doughter or my son comes and doesn't pay any penny.
Couldnt get clear answer for this question.
Some say ıf registered as daily rental sysem tax officers will get the list from police and investigate compare the bills and ask for the bill.
Some tax officers say if this is not a commercial activity and declared by accountant and kept documents in file there will not be problem.
Inspector
mustnur@hotmail.com
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13- Do I have to bill and pay tax for my relatives who dont pay any penny. How system will work, if my doughter or my son comes and doesn't pay any penny.
I think for most who do not rent commercially but do have friends and family stay in our properties occasionally, this is the one question that is most pertinent and is the cause of most confusion.
The way I see it is that over the course of this year, as I am not charging the two couples who are long-term friends nor my Aunt and Uncle-in-law who are coming over with a couple pf their friends at different times to us then it is clear that I am not a commercial renter.
One thing is for certain, unless there is some clarity in the situation then, unfortunately, this will be the last year that we'll be able to share our property with others.
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And again I inform you about this morning regulations and dont know what will happen in the afternoon
Nothing's changed in the world of Turkish bureaucracy then :)
JF
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As I have said in the past I am lucky that we do not need to rent and have only let friends and family stay but when I tried to explain what was going on to the wife she was up in arms saying that's it were selling up but when we actually looked back over the last 9 years there has only been 4 visits by friends and the last was 4 years ago and family normally visit when we are there so it doesn't really affect me and me been a selfish t**t (that's the wife's description) it plays in to my hands 8)
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Has anyone who rents their property started the process of registering? There will be many who already have bookings for this year.
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Had a look at AirBNB last night and there are 300 or so listings for Fethiye. I reckon 35-40% are from existing hotels and pensions but the rest looked like standard holiday rentals so, going by the law now, should be registered. In reality, I'd hazard a guess that very few of them actually are. A few other rental sites available and one of them had 300+ so still plenty advertising.
JF
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21090-updated-legislation-short-term-property-rentals.html.
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/news/19398-short-term-rentals-turkey-new-legislation.html
Lots of info but different information every day and many different sources. All pretty much say the same.
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"All pretty much say the same"
Not quite. The guys in the Fethiye Times article are saying that if you have never rented and have no intention of renting then it's OK to let family and even friends stay for free in your home.
This is the one question that I feel many need answering as I know many houses on our sitesi are used as family holiday homes. Many let family stay for free (maybe just paying for the electricity they use) and a few allow friends to stay on the same basis.
So the question many are asking is:
If I own my home and have never rented it out and do not intend to rent it out then is it OK for my son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father to stay?
I think if we could get the definitive answer to this then it would make some owners a lot happier.
Those that have rented commercially and wish to continue doing so obviously need to take professional advice in my opinion.
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So the question many are asking is:
If I own my home and have never rented it out and do not intend to rent it out then is it OK for my son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father to stay?
I think if we could get the definitive answer to this then it would make some owners a lot happier.
Spot on, Stoop!
Although I would add friends to that question along with clarifying which family members (we have an aunt and uncle staying with a couple of their friends at ours over the course of this year, all rent free.)
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It seems the replies that were on the FT article have mostly gone. However the link to the legal company (who was one of the guys who commented on the article) states this when asked the same question - including friends:
"YES. ABSOLUTELY SURE. THESE REGULATIONS ONLY CONCERNS THOSE WHO SEEK COMMERCIAL INCOME FROM THEIR PROPERTIES. YOUR GUESTS WILL BE ASKED FOR THEIR PLACE OF RESIDENCE DURING THEIR HOLIDAY WHEN THEY ENTER THE COUNTRY. SO YOU DO NOT NEED TO INFORM ANYONE."
So according to him everyone entering the country will be asked where they are staying. This happens in many countries I've been to in the past. USA and Thailand springs to mind. Seems a logical way to find out who is staying where.
http://legalrentalsturkey.com/faqs-2/
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The replies appear to have been put back up again. Maybe another little glitch ;-)
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21269-giykimbil-system-short-term-property-rentals-turkey.html
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I seem to remember the early days of coming to Turkey, you filled a card in on the plane with all the details of where you were staying. Makes sense to do this for anyone visiting
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Was that just a marketing ploy by the airlines and travel companies ?
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Was that just a marketing ploy by the airlines and travel companies ?
Not sure. Certainly the USA insist on an address as do Thailand. Maybe they will just change the visa to able us to add an address. Makes sense to me.
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How do you manage (in USA, Thailand or elsewhere) if you are touring by car and stopping at places that take your fancy rather than booked in advance? We've done that in Turkey - and found some of the best places we've been.
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It'll be the same for backpackers.
And, just another thought. What about all the campers and caravaners ? I realise that they won't be paying house owners for accommodation so it's not a tax issue but, if this is being implemented under the State of Emergency, how will they be tracked and recorded ?
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How do you manage (in USA, Thailand or elsewhere) if you are touring by car and stopping at places that take your fancy rather than booked in advance? We've done that in Turkey - and found some of the best places we've been.
You give them the first address you are staying at. If you haven't got one then you probably have to make one up ;-)
When we last toured the USA we gave them our address in NYC - the first hotel. It was not much use I guess as we then moved on to Washington, Chicago, San Fran and Santa Barbara.
I get your point but they just seem to want to know the first port of call.
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Will 'legalrentalsturkey' not benefit from this is everyone uses their company for help? :-\
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They certainly will, hence my comment about some folks on the FT page having a different agenda.
JF
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Exactly John, few scare tactics me thinks!
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Hello,i am certified accountant in Fethiye.i prepared an info document about taxation of daily rentals.You will get answers with most of common questions.i hope,it will be helpful.
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Thanks for the information:
But there is conflicting information:
When your friends stay at your property,tax office not accept this as a free accomidation.They accept,it is daily rental too.You still need to make taxation for their stay.
If your parents,husband/wife,kids and grandkids stay at your property,that is ok.if your friends stay at your property while you are staying at property that is ok as well.
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ignore my post above,i've spotted the difference : :)
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my information is just about taxation.if your friends stays at your property while you are staying or your close family staying,they will be guest.and you dont need to make invoice for them.i advice to home owners to keep a tapu copy and a passport copy at your property.if there will be a control by tax inspectors,you or your close family member can show.
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So, clear as mud then??
Source 1: (Above)
When your friends stay at your property,tax office not accept this as a free accomidation.They accept,it is daily rental too.You still need to make taxation for their stay.
Source 2 ((http://legalrentalsturkey.com/faqs-2/)
ARE YOU POSITIVE? ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY CAN STAY AT MY PLACE WITHOUT INFORMING ANYONE IF I DON'T RENT MY PROPERTY TO ANYONE?
YES. ABSOLUTELY SURE. THESE REGULATIONS ONLY CONCERNS THOSE WHO SEEK COMMERCIAL INCOME FROM THEIR PROPERTIES. YOUR GUESTS WILL BE ASKED FOR THEIR PLACE OF RESIDENCE DURING THEIR HOLIDAY WHEN THEY ENTER THE COUNTRY. SO YOU DO NOT NEED TO INFORM ANYONE.
Source 3 (Cannot copy/paste from Fethiye Times site, comment link below)
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/property/21269-giykimbil-system-short-term-property-rentals-turkey.html#comment-20291
Going by the latest source, I now need to setup everything for the tax office for 600TL then employ an accountant at 2500TL pa even though I only have close friends or family stay for free and don't rent commercially. ???
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(http://rs163.pbsrc.com/albums/t301/KayaKoyuWalker/Can%20of%20worms.jpg?w=280&h=210&fit=crop)
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I will try to clear
Source 2 is completely wrong.Only your close family and your friends who stays with you/with a member of close family is accepted as free of charge.Free of charge accomidation is very unclear,open to abuse situation for tax office and they clearly explain border of free of charge accomidation in tax law.
Source 3 has a lot of different informations but as i see it is writen there to speak with and certified accountant or with tax office to get blear information about tax side.You can get information from tax office easily if you are in Fethiye as well.
I understand your point,your friends come to your home,having holiday and you dont charge any money.But our tax laws not accept a benefit of something as complimentary.
At G.V.K.(Income tax law) no:73 says:'' Bedelsiz olarak başkalarının intifaına bırakılan mal ve hakların emsal kira bedeli, bu mal ve hakların kirası sayılır.''
Basiclly it says,imputed rental cost will be calculated and accepted as income for free of charge benefits.if they make a control to your property and find out some one elses stays,they will make a valuation of market rental prices.And it will be accrued income for you.I am sorry but this is what tax law says.
Also you are not giving around 2500 lira to your accountant.that amount consist of accountant fee,duty stamps of V.A.T.,witholding tax,pre-paid tax,income tax declaration forms.These are standart payments when you registered as a tax payer in Turkey.
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This is very complex information coming from the Tax Office to confirm the details of the new rules in regard to renting and taxation. I remember when it was supposed to be about countering terrorism.
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So, even though there are some of us who are not wanting to make an income, (in fact, losing money because of electricity, water, etc.) we still have to pay tax on the income we haven't made.
If it's worked in percentages that's fine - I'll quite happily pay 100% tax on my rental income because 100% of zero is still zero!
This is becoming more farcical by the day!
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The difference between Turkish Law and UK law again. You have to prove you're not earning money, the Taxman doesn't have to prove you are.
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I know the response from will be to get correct legal views, and rightly so, but I thought I'd chuck it out there anyway.
If your property is on a 'complex' where it states on the TAPU you own a certain share of the 'complex', is there a loop hole?
For example, if on the land there are 8 properties, and each owners TAPU states they own 1/8th of the parcel/package/land/whatever, do all the owners have to register people renting in any of the properties if at least one (and obviously I'm referring here to a permanent resident) of the TAPU owners are there? The TAPU holder permanently there owns 1/8th, but how does that work for this? Is it 1/8th of all properties on the land so therefore an owner is present?
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Probably. :)
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After reading a lot of different takes on this, as I see it if you have family staying for free you don't have to register but the way to prove that they are family is them having the same surname or maiden name.
with friends the onus is on the owner to prove that they are staying for free and that the powers at be automatically take it that they are paying guests.
I can actually see there point of view when it comes to the overall situation there are thousands of property owners across Turkey (of all nationalities) not paying taxes the country is in a financial mess and they want to generate money, if this was in the Uk and thousands of foreigners where not paying their way we would be in uproar Just look at Jimmy Carr and all the other celebs they where vilified for doing something that they where advised was legal or so they say ;)
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I can never make that quote feature work .....
But in reply to :
"If it's worked in percentages that's fine - I'll quite happily pay 100% tax on my rental income because 100% of zero is still zero!"
In order to pay your 100% tax on nil income you will of course have to register in the first place ..............
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5. EXCEPTION IN RENTAL INCOME
If persons, who gain rental income from house (exception amount 3.800 TL for the year 2016), obtain income less than the amount of exception that is established annually, they are not required to be registered at the tax offices and not required to file a tax declaration to tax offices.
In case more than one person has the ownership of a house, the taxation of the rental income obtained from such house will be subject to 3.800 TL (for the year 2016) of exception separately for each proprietor.
GUIDEBOOK ON RENTAL INCOME FOR
NON-RESIDENT TAXPAYERS
http://www.gib.gov.tr
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Thanks AOK! :)
I think that is the first citable piece of information in this whole saga!!
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5. EXCEPTION IN RENTAL INCOME
If persons, who gain rental income from house (exception amount 3.800 TL for the year 2016), obtain income less than the amount of exception that is established annually, they are not required to be registered at the tax offices and not required to file a tax declaration to tax offices.
I think the issue here is whether its "rental income" or "commercial income".
The one constant from all "experts" is that daily or weekly rental income is considered to be commercial income, as opposed to rental income. My understanding is that if its a long term let (e.g. 6 months), then it comes under the category of rental income. Shorter lets are commercial income and as such as treated very differently.
JF
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5. EXCEPTION IN RENTAL INCOME
If persons, who gain rental income from house (exception amount 3.800 TL for the year 2016), obtain income less than the amount of exception that is established annually, they are not required to be registered at the tax offices and not required to file a tax declaration to tax offices.
I think the issue here is whether its "rental income" or "commercial income".
The one constant from all "experts" is that daily or weekly rental income is considered to be commercial income, as opposed to rental income. My understanding is that if its a long term let (e.g. 6 months), then it comes under the category of rental income. Shorter lets are commercial income and as such as treated very differently.
JF
:( :( :(
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They seem to have it all pretty well sewn up. A dead end at every turn. It's so widely documented now they're probably also counting on neighbours squealing. :(
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Hi Everyone,
I am the manager in legalrentalsturkey.com and I was informed of the questions here so wanted to clearify some of the questions with hopes to help.
I hold a BA and MBA in Business. I studied in USA, UK and Turkey and managed the largest Turkish company for 9 years before I decided to move to Dalyan and establish a very small tour company.
I am also a chairman in DOKTOB (Dalaman Ortaca Koycegiz Tourism and Hotelier Assocaton) and a member of TURSAB (The Association of Turkish Travel Agencies)
Turkish and EU laws are clear that it is publics responsibility to know the laws and it is civil organisations that should inform the public. As DOKTOB and TURSAB we have been doing this since 2013, however with the last legislation we thought people may need to get in to details to find the most cost effective and beneficial way to be a legal short term rental.
So we approached the governor of Mugla. With his help and cooperation of Ortaca mayor and Chief Jandarma officer and the municipiality, we started to establish an informative website offering free information and services. So legalrentalsturkey.com offers free information and help on registering as well as subsidization system to property owners to find the lowest cost model. You do not need our services to do this, we can just show you and you can form your own system. We are not selling anytjing and/or demanding anything from you. We are a civil organization doing our public responsibility.
These laws regulating short term rentals were planned in 2009 with the decleration of fight with unregistered economy. Since than 4 laws passed to regulate the short term rentals. In 2010 the “Short term Rental” was defined as a property that is rented continuously and subsecuently in a given year and an effort given to market. So if you have a property that you rent more than 1 time a year or you are advertising it than it is a short term rental.
In 2013 another law passed clearifying that short term rentals will have to be managed under hotel/pension laws and they would need the necessary licenses. Fines for not complying was 138 liras and it was municipialities duties to control.
Now wi,th the last legislation, the fines are 10,380 liras on 1st offence and you are reposting via GIYKIMBIL to police/jandarma and tax office.
All information can be found on our website and I repeat: We are just tourism professionals trying to do our social responsibility duties. Unless you want to go to a tour with us, we are not selling anything. We are working with the government and we can repeat everything we say here or on our website in front of any government official ur before any court of Law. Please don’t be spectical before reading and learning what we do.
Regarding our website not functioning for 4 days. It was due to Google Chrome’s update. Not us. We informed google regarding the glitch they had so they fixed it and the site functions for chrome users too now. Before commenting please think twice because we are doing everything in our power and I personally am putting every single resource I have in my life to support tgis project just so you can get the right information. It does hurt sometimes to read very harsh and unjust comments.
Due to skepticism aroused in dalyan regarding our work, we asked the Governor to establish a meeting to inform all Emlak offices. So they did with the attendance of the Chief Jandarma captain Evren Ekmekci and representatives from the mayors office and municipiality as well as civilian jandarma officers responsible of GIYKIMBIL system. You can check this by calling the governors office or ortaca municipiality.
We are here to help and all information on our site came from highest authorities in Ankara and Mugla. Laws are clear and understandable and all presented on our website.
Emlak offices are not qualified to give you the right answers. You just speak with certified public accountants or mayors office to get the right answers. Do not hesitate to contact us if you need information or help. We can lead you to right authorities or even arrange a meeting in your local area with the highest authorities attendance.
We have the answer to every single one of your questions, asked and answered by the undersecretary of internal affairs. We will continue to do our best to help and answer all your questions and do accept legal responsibility of everything we say.
Best Wishes,
Volkan Hacıgümüş
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Dear Mr. Ibrahim Ozdemir;
We have read your document with the tax office registration process. I can say that it is mostly correct with one exception. ı think you are disregarding the municipality laws that require Pension/htel license for any hospitality service in their province. this was confirmed by mugla Big City Municipality and Ortaca Municipality that they will not allow apartments/villas to host guests without municipality license granted to COMPANIES ONLY, which also requires a Turkish Citizen and Turkish Speaking mandate manager to be resident in turkey at all times of the business is operating. They say this according to following law in 2013. Please lets work together to enlighten all effected by the law. My email is volkan@legalrentalsturkey.com and we had the opportunity to meet with our Prime Minister last week in mıugla and our Minister of Tourism visiting us in dalyan on April 13th. please read the law below and we are looking forward to your interpretation:
TRANSLATION FOR FELLOW FORUM MEMBERS:
Ministry of internal affairs circular regarding short term rentals
Turkish Republic
Ministry of Internal Affairs
General Management of Governors Offices
No: 26554408.010.06.01/6094 26/11/2013
Subject: Houses rented in short term
To the governor of ———— city
Reporting of residency is a mandatory that is regulated under the law 5490, article 50. reporting of temporary residential status is regulated by the law 1774 and its reported by the facilities that offer short term hospitality service. For not complying with law 1774 and not informing authorities of the short term stays in hospitality facilities would result in fines and sanctions and the applications of this law is supervised by the police/jandarma.
As per explained above, its known that some apartments and residences are used as pensions/hotels and/or facilities that hosts students. It is clear that pensions and student dormitories are legislated under “Opening a Business with A Business Licence” laws that were passed in 10/08/2005 with the declaration in legal gazette with number 25902 and are required to obtain a business license and municipality license and they can not operate without these. It is required by law that these residential properties that are used as pensions and or dormitories to be regulated by said laws.
As these premises cause a security risqué, to be able to fight against crimes and to establish better security, to resolve the problems in application of the above said laws, following precautions will be taken:
APARTS, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES AND HOMES THAT ARE RENTED IN SHORT TERMS AND THOSE WHICH HOSTS STUDENTS WILL BE INSPECTED BY LAW OFFICERS FIRMLY. The reports on said apartment, parts and residences and their owners/managers will be communicated with the authorities immediately.
If any incomplience with above said laws found, within the boundaries of law and without violating the rights of a person necessary actions will be taken to fine the said premises
It is clear that residences that are rented to gusts as a short term rental falls under the legislation no 1774 that regulates the informing of authorities for short term residencies. As per the law declared on the official gazette on 13/07/1974 with number 14944, those who rent their residences on short term basis must register their guests, keep records of their arrival and return dates, their identification information and declare under the Short term residencies Declaration law to local authorities.
As per this circular, it is ordered to local authorities to follow the compliance with this law according to said laws above and report the result of their inspections to our ministry with highest importance.
Signiture:
Minister of Internal Affairs
Muammer Guler
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THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT
Günübirlik Kiralanan Yerler konulu içişleri Bakanlığı Genelgesi
T.C.
iÇiŞLERi BAKANLIĞI
iller idaresi Genel Müdürlüğü
Sayı : 26554408.010.06.01/6094 26/11/2013
Konu : Günübirlik Kiralanan Yerler
……………..VALiLiĞiNE
Yerleşim yeri adresi beyanında bulunma, 5490 sayılı Nüfus Hizmetleri Kanununun 50 nci maddesinde düzenlenen zorunlu bir bildirimdir. Geçici konaklamada bildirim ise 1774 sayılı Kimlik Bildirme Kanunu hükümlerine göre yürütülmekte, kişilerin beyanları çerçevesinde geçici konaklama hizmeti veren işletmeler tarafından yerine getirilmektedir. 1774 sayılı Kanun`da öngörülen usule aykırı bildirim yapılması veya bildirimin hiç yapılmaması idarî yaptırıma tabidir. Kimlik bildirme hizmetleri uzun bir süredir online sistemler vasıtasıyla işletmeler tarafından genel kolluk birimlerine yapılmakta ve kolluk birimlerince denetlenmektedir.
Yukarıda açıklanan şekilde kullanılan apart daire veya rezidansların aynı zamanda öğrencilere yönelik yurt ve pansiyon gibi hizmetler içinde kullanıldığı görülmektedir.Yurt veya pansiyonların,10/08/2005 tarihli ve 25902 sayılı Resmî Gazete`de yayımlanarak yürürlüğe giren işyeri Açma ve Çalışma Ruhsatlarına ilişkin Yönetmelik hükümlerine tabi birer işyeri niteliğinde oldukları, yetkili idarelerden usulüne uygun olarak işyeri açma ve çalışma ruhsatı alınmadan çalıştırılamayacağı açıktır. Yurt ve pansiyon olarak kullanılan bu gibi yerler hakkında söz konusu mevzuata göre hareket edilmesi gerekmektedir.
Genel güvenlik açısından önemli bir risk alanı oluşturan bu yerlerdeki güvenlik açıklarının giderilmesi, suç ve suçluyla mücadelede etkinliğin artırılması, uygulamada yaşanan sorunların çözümlenebilmesi, kanuni, idarî ve mali tedbirlerin alınması bakımından aşağıdaki tedbirler uygulanacaktır:
Günübirlik kiraya verilen apart daire, rezidans veya apart şeklindeki yurt ve pansiyon niteliğindeki yerlere yönelik denetimlere ağırlık verilecektir. Belirtilen apart daire ve rezidanslar ile işletmecileri ya da sahipleri hakkında yapılan tespitler gecikmeksizin ilgisine göre bundan sorumlu kurumlara bildirilecektir.
Buralarda mevzuata aykırılık tespit edilmesi halinde ilgili mevzuat çerçevesinde kişi hak ve özgürlükleri ihlal edilmeden gerekli işlemler yapılacaktır.
Halihazırda öğrenci yurdu olarak kullanılan apart daire, pansiyon ve rezidansların 3/12/2004 tarih ve 25659 sayılı Resmî Gazete `de yayımlanarak yürürlüğe giren Özel Öğrenci Yurtları Yönetmeliğinin yurt binalarında aranacak şartları düzenleyen 6 ncı maddesinde belirtilen bazı şartları taşımadıkları, özellikle can ve mal güvenliği bakımından tehdit oluşturan yangınlara karşı gereken tedbirlerin alınmadığı görülmekte olup, bu konuda eksikliği tespit edilen yerlerle ilgili olarak yetkili mercilerce gerekli işlemler yapılacaktır.
Günübirlik konaklamalarda kullanılan apart daire, rezidans ve benzeri yerlerin 1774 sayılı Kimlik Bildirme Kanunu hükümlerine tabi oldukları açıktır. Bu Kanun ile 13/07/1974 tarihli ve 14944 sayılı Resmî Gazete`de yayımlanarak yürürlüğe giren Kimlik Bildirme Kanununun Uygulanması ile ilgili Yönetmelik hükümlerine göre konaklama yerini işletenler, konaklayanların kimlik bilgileri ile tesise geliş ve ayrılış kayıtlarını örneğine ve usulüne uygun şekilde günü gününe tutmak ve genel kolluk kuvvetlerinin her an incelemelerine hazır bulundurmakla sorumludur. Buna aykırı hareket edenlere aynı Kanunun 15 inci maddesi gereğince idari para cezası uygulanacaktır.
Mülki idare Amirleri başta olmak üzere ilgililer tarafından konunun titizlikle takip edilerek, yetkili idarelerce günübirlik kiralanan yerlere ilişkin işlemlerin yukarıda belirtilen usul ve esaslara uygun olarak yürütülmesini ve uygulama sonucundan Bakanlığımıza bilgi verilmesini önemle arz ve rica ederim.
Muammer GÜLER
içişleri Bakanı
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managed the largest Turkish company for 9 years
Oh that's interesting, which company is that then?
Looks like we might have a bit of a bun fight as well :)
JF
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ıts called Nergis Holiding in bursa, owned by Cavit Calgary and ex ministry of economy. ı had 17,500 workers. you can check my credentials.
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Sorry auto correct, Nergis Holding is owned by Cavit Caglar
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Dear Mr. Ibrahim;
I kindly invite you to Dalyan to attend in the meeting with the Mugla Governor and Minister of Tourism 2 weeks later. please contact me for details. Your comment regarding friends can not stay in your place, do you have a legal ground on that? Can you send us the regulation? because internal affairs clearly states: "Friends and family who stay in your residential home are registered once they enter the country of their temporary residency, therefore no need for a registration.
however, once there is a sign of business activity, i.e: an advertisement or proof of rental more than once in a year, where the property owner makes an effort to market their property for rental, than it must be registered as business. Once its registered as business, you have to inform even yourself when you are staying there. GIYKIMBIL has separate entries for guests, workers and owners.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not questioning your integrity, just want to find the best answers for readers.
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ıts called Nergis Holiding in bursa, owned by Cavit Calgary and ex ministry of economy. ı had 17,500 workers. you can check my credentials.
That's disappointing, so it's just a large company as opposed to the largest. I was expecting you to tell us you'd been running Sabanci or Koç or TurkTelecom!
I'm not sure I have any interest in "your credentials" as such, integrity and transparency in your interactions with members is far more important.
Personally speaking, knowing that your are a partner in a firm specifically set up to profit from these changes, does make me consider your motives in being so vocal on here and on the FT article. The same applies to the accountant, who so kindly prepared a short document stating what he could do for folks.
For many members this is an important issue and, in true Turkish bureaucratic style, it would appear to have many grey areas - my advice to members would be to seek truly independent advice before committing to any agreement with a third party, whether they be accountant, tour operator or otherwise.
Enjoy your time on CBF and I look forward to you participating in all topics, not just those where you have a financial interest.
JF
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hi JF;
I think being in Turkey and i am being Turkish, making a mistake in English Grammar can be forgiven.
I repeat, I have no business ,interest in legalrentalsturkey.com. This website was established under my tourism association membership ID.
We were put in this work with the request of the Governor of Mugla.
Just spoken to mr Ibrahim, accountant, he will reply here because he now realises his words were misinterpreted . He was only giving information regarding registering for a tax, not being a host for tourists as a short term rental. Totally 2 different things
For me i am doing my public service, and now i have done it by giving the infırmation. ıts up to people to take it or leave it.
best Wishes,
Volkan
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I think being in Turkey and i am being Turkish, making a mistake in English Grammar can be forgiven.
Volkan, your written English is excellent so I'm more than happy to accept it was a simple mistake, as opposed to you overstating your credentials.
I repeat, I have no business ,interest in legalrentalsturkey.com. This website was established under my tourism association membership ID.
You're listed as Managing Director on the web site and you introduced yourself here as the manager of legalrentalsturkey.com.
You can't have it both ways.
JF
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hi JF,
As explained in many different platforms, we had to run this project under a company to be able to help people. regardless it is a NON-Profit or Profit based company, they must have a worker/manager. Even charities have managers. They can have managing directors. managing director doesn't mean that he has a business interest in the operations. We have helped hundreds of people so far registering and/or getting the right information. We haven't asked anyone for a single penny. I think thats a proof. Anyways, we are here to help if anyone needed it, otherwise its fine.
Best Wishes,
Volkan
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I personally would like to thank Volkan for his input I think looking at his information it has been very helpful and as I see it if you are thinking of renting your property register or you could end up with some heavy looking fines gone are the days of making a few quid on the side, if it's family your ok it's the friends bit that seems to me to be the grey area how do you prove that the friends stay is free ?
As Volkan says we can take his info or leave it
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thank you trainer,
however to clarify questions for people i contacted Mr Ibrahim the accountant. First of all he says he made it clear that his comments was solely regarding tax registration, not registration of short term rentals.
than he enlightened us on the subject who can stay or not stay in your property. There is a law passed in 1974 confirmes what he says, only your first degree relatives can stay in your place if you are not there. This law again based on the common term "No such thing as free bed". Again, this is a law that has been in power since 1974, nothing new, and it is ONLY related to taxation, not short term rentals.
therefore again we asked to a senior tax inspector and he answered:
"Technically what Mr Ibrahim says is correct. However, in Turkey the applications of laws are managed by 2 ways:
1) Written orders by higher authorities
2) Established customs
There is no established custom of a tax officer to walk in your "Residential House" and check if people are your relatives or not. Technically they can, however this is not applied. But please read carefully: "Once you rent your property more than once a year and only once you make an advertisement let it be verbal, on social media or on online sales sites, than your property is a business and your income is business income" Than your property is not residential anymore and any government authority can knock on your door, and will.
Hope to be help clarify.
best Wishes,
Volkan
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Has anyone recently travelled to Turkey and have they been asked where they are staying? Instead of being told we will be asked, would be nice to actually hear some evidence of this. Please share your experience as I'm sure many on here are confused.com. :-\
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Again, the word tax appears countless times in these new lengthy responses but the word terrorism doesn't appear once.
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We arrived 24th February until 9th March and not question where we were staying.
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But you wouldn't be would you...it's owners who need to engage with this not the renters (unless I missed something).
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Has anyone recently travelled to Turkey and have they been asked where they are staying? Instead of being told we will be asked, would be nice to actually hear some evidence of this. Please share your experience as I'm sure many on here are confused.com. :-\
Hi Rana
Sue and arrived on Wednesday for 1 week only. (short visit as for personal reasons we are placing our property on the market )
We was expecting to be asked that very question,but never was!
We are returning early May and will post again then regarding this.
Dave.
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AT The time we were owners not renters
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They aren't looking for owners :o
As owners you aren't asked on arrival where you are staying, same for renters. As owners you engage with the police software etc and declare any renters you have in your property.
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They aren't looking for owners :o
As owners you aren't asked on arrival where you are staying, same for renters. As owners you engage with the police software etc and declare any renters you have in your property.
But when you arrive are airport they don't know if you are an owner or a renter surely?
So if they are going to ask the question they must ask everyone without a Turkish passport.
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I don't think they are planning to ask - that's my point. So whether you are an owner or a renter is irrelevant.
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I don't think they are planning to ask - that's my point. So whether you are an owner or a renter is irrelevant.
Exactly! But if they are going to ask then being an owner or renter is irrelevant too :)
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How is it irrelevant? They can fine an owner 5000TL a day and fine a renter nothing. That's fairly relevant.
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Thanks patrice and Dave that would be great if everyone on here are kept informed if travellers were asked or not. Exactly Scunner that was my point, Legal rentals said all would be asked upon arrival but can't back up evidence of this.
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As explained in many different platforms, we had to run this project under a company to be able to help people. regardless it is a NON-Profit or Profit based company, they must have a worker/manager.
From your web site, Legalrentalsturkey do property maintenance, assist in the applications for residency & work permits, organise weddings, do car rental, facilitate property sales and more - maybe I'm just an old cynic, but are you really suggesting that Legalrentalsturkey is a non-profit company?
There's something I meant to ask you previously - you're first post had "So we approached the governor of Mugla" but when I queried some of what you'd posted you then stated "We were put in this work with the request of the Governor of Mugla". So, I'm curious, who really asked who?
You may think I'm being pedantic, and you may be correct - however, CBF members have come to expect a certain level of integrity and transparency from local businesses that post (or are recommended) on here.
Again, the word tax appears countless times in these new lengthy responses but the word terrorism doesn't appear once.
Well it wouldn't, would it? :) The lengthy responses have all been from local businesses who, despite their very informative (and at times conflicting) posts, are still businesses who believe they can "assist" the membership of CBF.
JF
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How is it irrelevant? They can fine an owner 5000TL a day and fine a renter nothing. That's fairly relevant.
I meant it's irrelevant as far as asking where you are staying is concerned. Renter or landlord, when you enter the country you give details of where you are staying.
The easy answer is to just change the visa so that it has a question that asks where you are staying. In fact that's the only way I can ever see it working.
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That is the one idea that won't work - people might not know where they are staying the next time they visit, just the first time.
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Yes let me answer your questions:
1) We had a DOKTOB meeting. In this meeting we decided we would do our public service duty to inform people of the laws. However, that wasn't enough. We also wanted to create a system that would be cost effective for people to register. However, as DOKTOB is a civil association (DERNEK) it can not easily be involved in business activity. However we needed to employ at least 3 people, make a discounted agreement with the public accountant, he would invoice us and we would invoice members. If DOKTOB went into this organisation, they would fall under a DERNEK with real income and they would be class, f,ed as Book Keeper Association and they would go under a massive integration by the tax office. So, because I have a Double BA in International business and Economy and Double MBA in Business Management and Finance, I am legally and technically capable of organising such system. Also because I lşved outside of Turkey for 14 years in total, and because i have good relationships with expats and tourists in dalyan area they thought it would be best to form this service under my company.
2) If you read our website, all services you mention above has a cost, price. Do you want your garden to be taken care of, it costs you. Do you want transfers from airport: It costs you Do you want a special day organised: It costs you HOWEVER if you need help registering and advise, all processes we follow for you for FREE. Its said in million places on our website. We have helped hundreds of people so far and dissent charge anything. If you register by becoming a member of the group, the agreements with the accountant and salaries paid to staff to repost every day for the clients are open booked. Currently charge is 300 liras but at the end of the year if cost per residency lower than this, we give the excess money back. If its more than 300 liras, DOKTOB and Volkan's Adventures pays for it.
3) We have first met with Evren Ekmekci (Captain Jandarma of Ortaca) Than with Fatih Ürkem (Mayor of Ortaca) and explained them our project. Than Mr. Amir Çiçek visited us in Dalyan, we explained him our project. Than we went to Ankara and met with Mehmet TEKiNARSLAN, who is the under secretary of minister of internal affairs. Than last week we have met with Mr. Binali Yıldırım in Mugla and explained our project (You probably know who he is). Than I got lots of scepticism and they even cut my cars break fluid lines in dalyan and accused me of making up laws. Than I called Colonel Yavuz özfidan and explained him that I am getting a lot of heat. Than he arranged a meeting in dalyan, captain Evren Ekmekçi, number of sergeants, The Chief Registration Officer from Ortaca Municipality, The civilian jandarma officers whom are responsible,ble of GUYKIMBIL attended. And they made it clear that my efforts are to inform people, which is civil associations duty, and every work we did is within their knowledge and they confirmed everything that says on that site. I also made a speash, explained people (Emlak offices) that this is not my business. They should be doing this.They should stop being sceptical and act otherwise what happened last week in Konya, Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, bursa, Adıyaman, Izmit will happen in Mugla, jandarma will seal these houses when guests are in it and fine owners.
4) The reason tax is mentioned because these laws are passed under the declaration to fight against unregistered economy. Only last law, KHK 678 was connected to help fight terrorism. The 5 said laws are passed with the correlated work of 4 ministries but the ministry of revenues is the controller.
5) Upon our conversation with Mr. Ibrahim yesterday, and upon him informing us regarding who can stay in your property, perhaps you should take his word. The law he is mentioning is correct and in force.
6) This is the last time i am logging in this forum because all you are doing is trying to find holes in the laws. Go to our site, read the laws, and you will be very enlightened to see there is no discussion, there is no loopholes, its crystal clear that if you want to rent you house, you need a municipality operation license. If the 10,000 houses sealed and fined in last week doesn't make you want to act now, than continue what you are doing. We are tourism professionals. We make our living from tourism. We are the last ones who would want to harm it. Hence all the effort we are putting and we have a lt more to do than trying to convince you
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This is the last time i am logging in this forum because all you are doing is trying to find holes in the laws.
...and of course this is something no Turkish person ever does?
This a discussion forum and members are perfectly entitled to discuss this law and how it affects them. In fact, its what good lawyers, Turkish or otherwise do on a daily basis - what's so different about CBF members doing it?
Stay or go, it is your choice. You've been treated politely and with respect on CBF, somewhat more so than other individuals in similar situations over the years.
JF
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Vj6dzVUSq7M/V1bz59a6MiI/AAAAAAAAoJg/CymioDxGwCketKamedQQFiRRtCSTHXhLgCLcB/s1600/i-m-taking-my-ball-and-going-home.jpg)
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I repeat, I have no business ,interest in legalrentalsturkey.com.
You're listed as Managing Director on the web site and you introduced yourself here as the manager of legalrentalsturkey.com.
If you read our website, all services you mention above has a cost, price. Do you want your garden to be taken care of, it costs you. Do you want transfers from airport: It costs you Do you want a special day organised: It costs you
You have no business interest in a website that you call "our website" which is made up primarily of links to services you offer, like property management, but as manager one day and MD of it another, you have no interest financially in the company at all? You tell us about the things people might want from "our website" that have a cost - but as manager and MD you don't benefit financially from any of these charged for services Volkan? You really think people will buy that?
This is the last time i am logging in this forum because all you are doing is trying to find holes in the laws.
I don't think it's the laws people are finding holes in Volkan.
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I really don't believe you don't understand such a simple equation, but i will even further simply it for you.
There is a company in turkey called Sabancı Holding. The manager directors name is Guler Sabancı. Their website is www.sabanci.com
In this website there are business activities where Guler Sabancı has a financial interest, such as AKBANK, AKFINANS, AKSIGORTA, AVIVASA, LASSA....
Than at the same website there are non-profit organisations such as Türkan Sabancı Görme Engelliler ilköğretim Okulu, SABANCI VAKFI, SABANCI MUZESI, where they make no money, just do their social responsibility.
For intsance, if you buy a insurance policy from AKSIGORTA from www.sabanci.com, Mrs. Sabanci makes money. If you have a child with eye sight disability you apply to Türkan Sabancı Görme Engelliler ilköğretim Okulu and your child gets free education in special needs children school.
Now do you email Mrs Sabanci and say that "How could you claim that you have no financial interest in SANACI VAKFI or "Türkan Sabancı Görme Engelliler ilköğretim Okulu" which are on your www.sabanci.com website when you clearly claim that you are the MD of www.sabanci.com and you are clearly asking money for insurance policies and everything else you sell there.
I understand that historically, less financially aware people were sold property on the basis that it would be an investment (and provide an income in retirement.....etc) and they are probably upset with the reality that the property is not 'washing its face' in monetary terms. Without being harsh, that is their problem for not looking into the numbers properly and this is probably why they are now reacting so strongly to what seems to me a legitimate request from the Turkish revenue office to ensure the taxes due are paid (on the side of minister of revenues), and legitimate request to be able to follow who is staying where to ensure safer environment for the public (on the side of ministry of internal affairs), and levitamate request to be able to have controls on the health and safety regulations in means of fire resistant doors, properly checked pools, approved habitation licenses (On the side of municipiality).....
What makes me upset is that when there are clearly written laws, we are discussing the legitimate of what i do and what i say, where its so simple to check:
1) read the laws and no need for a discussion how and what to do
2) Try me and see if we will ask you a single penny for help in registration.
Simple. Since you are making the accusation or questioning the legitimacy of our work, the burden is on you to prove your stand. I don't have to defend myself because i never asked anyone a single penny to register them or to advise them. I repeat, you do not have to buy it. As i said before, its up to you (people) to take it or leave it. However, once and if you smear what we are doing without a solid ground and a proof, see that belongs to another subject, that will be dealt with another law: http://www.ticaretkanunu.net/ttk-madde-55/
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I thought that the registration process had been extended till the end of June, so how come fines are being handed out now?
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Does anyone know of any 1 of these 10,000 owners being fined ?
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That is the one idea that won't work - people might not know where they are staying the next time they visit, just the first time.
In that case make them complete an extra form on the plane with their accommodation address. Hand it in at passport control similar to what they do in Thailand.
It's not a difficult operation to get a visitor to tell the authorities where they are intending to stay.
If they are serious about the security measures they are attempting to put in place then there aren't many other options.
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Again, the word tax appears countless times in these new lengthy responses but the word terrorism doesn't appear once.
Has anyone recently travelled to Turkey and have they been asked where they are staying? Instead of being told we will be asked, would be nice to actually hear some evidence of this. Please share your experience as I'm sure many on here are confused.com. :-\
Our customers arrived 5 days ago. No one asked them where they will stay.
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This topic seems to have gone quiet - any more clues/clarity emerged on the family & friends situation.
Ian
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Has anyone been through the process of registering as yet, we are out next week been advised the need to bring our laptop with us in order do it.
Bit of a pain given current security issue with bringing laptops & that fact we are only travelling with hand luggage.
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Who advised you to bring a laptop?
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I need to be able to download the police software onto something not being very techy presumed laptop the option
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been advised the need to bring our laptop with us in order do it.
Sounds like you need a new "advisor", seriously.
JF
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For anyone who would like to know husband and I arrived on two different days and neither of us were asked where we would be staying and it didnt look as though anyone else at passport control was being asked this question...
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If you bring a laptop, you'll have to put it in the hold on the way back to the uk!
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Anyone any more news on the 'family and friends' without owner question?? Very annoying - I had a good friend house stay here in the UK last year looking after my plants and animals whilst we were in Turkey. I promised her a week at the villa (with her daughter) in return. Now looks like I can't fulfill that.
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Anyone any more news on the 'family and friends' without owner question?? Very annoying - I had a good friend house stay here in the UK last year looking after my plants and animals whilst we were in Turkey. I promised her a week at the villa (with her daughter) in return. Now looks like I can't fulfill that.
Unfortunately, you will need to register your property. We were in the position with friends booked as a thank-you for some help they gave us last year and also some other friends who we were giving our place to for a fortnight as a wedding gift. We've had to let both down, along with Sian's aunt, who through marriage and re- marriages within the family, is four surnames away from us, so proving relationship is too difficult .
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In a previous post i added Wendy i mentioned about my brother-in-law contacting the police on our behalf. He told them we had guests staying in April and we hadn't yet registered our property. The policeman said no hurry we can register when my hubby is next in Turkey, unless they are paying guests.
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In a previous post i added Wendy i mentioned about my brother-in-law contacting the police on our behalf. He told them we had guests staying in April and we hadn't yet registered our property. The policeman said no hurry we can register when my hubby is next in Turkey, unless they are paying guests.
How can you prove that they are not paying ?
SM-N9005 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi
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In answer to Cenk, How can the inspectors prove if they are paying ?
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In answer to Cenk, How can the inspectors prove if they are paying ?
Very simple. They dont need to prove. You are the one who must prove.
SM-N9005 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi
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That's the difference between Turkish / Napoleonic and UK law. In Turkish law it's up to the accused to prove a negative. :)
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In answer to Cenk, you can't prove either way unless you have documents of some kind proving their payment or non-payment. But as i understand the Police were a little relaxed about it. He didn't say we need proof but he did say at first there will be a warning before a fine.
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But as i understand the Police were a little relaxed about it. He didn't say we need proof but he did say at first there will be a warning before a fine.
Pretty much same as I've been told.
JF
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In answer to Cenk, you can't prove either way unless you have documents of some kind proving their payment or non-payment. But as i understand the Police were a little relaxed about it. He didn't say we need proof but he did say at first there will be a warning before a fine.
I am speaking as a person who had spoken to police face to face many times about this subject. I have respect what you think about the subject. It will be your choice to take risk or not.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Let's face it - it's impossible to prove that you haven't been paid for someone staying at your house. How can you prove something that hasn't happened?
It's a killer for those of us who let friends and family stay (who do not share your surname).
Turkish businesses will lose out. Less shopping, fewer cleans required, less eating and drinking, fewer Dolmus rides, fewer trips purchased, fewer transfers, less water and electric used. The list is endless.
Such a shame for those who let friends and family stay but now can't, or dare not!
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Someone said on FB that it won't be this legislation that kills tourism.
It will be the unregistered madman on the beach.
Food for thought.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
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Someone said on FB that it won't be this legislation that kills tourism.
It will be the unregistered madman on the beach.
Food for thought.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
Still not convinced this isn't about tax revenue, sorry.
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Of course it's about tax !
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Still not convinced this isn't about tax revenue, sorry.
I think it's a threefold objective:
1) Assisting the fight against terrorism by regulating short lets
2) Appeasing the tourism & hotel organisations due to their lobbying against the AirBNB type market by making this type of letting more difficult
3) Raising tax revenue that had previously gone unreported, or in some cases misreported.
You can't really argue against 1) & 3) - however 2) will, to a certain extent, damage tourism and NOT necessarily fill all those missing bed nights the hoteliers are complaining about. It's a different market most of the time.
In answer to Cenk, you can't prove either way unless you have documents of some kind proving their payment or non-payment. But as i understand the Police were a little relaxed about it. He didn't say we need proof but he did say at first there will be a warning before a fine.
I am speaking as a person who had spoken to police face to face many times about this subject. I have respect what you think about the subject. It will be your choice to take risk or not.
I think the issue here is pure Turkey - speak to a dozen officials and you'll receive a dozen different interpretations of the same piece of legislation - and you're right, it is up to the individual to make their choices.
JF
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Here's a question then - if I want to let someone stay in our place at no cost then how do I prove they haven't paid?
By that I mean is there something I can get signed that the authorities would accept? If there is something and it only costs a nominal fee then I'm sure many would be happy to let friends and family stay for free.
Or is it just assumed cart blanche that anyone who stays has paid?
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Sworn oath ?
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Sworn oath ?
....signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.
(One for the Douglas Adams fans!)
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Sworn oath ?
I get your point but would they accept one written and notarized in the UK? Sort of defeats the object if both parties have to be in Turkey.
Cost would probably bee to excessive unless it could be used more than once :)
Just wondering :)
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Just had an email from Intasure ( with whom I insure the Villa) to offer advice about registration. Among the Q & A's is :
If I don’t rent my holiday home, do I still need to register?
Regulations are only for those who create income from their rental. This even includes occasional rentals to friends or family if they contribute any sort of payment.
I think it will take some time to settle down, but my guess is that if you don't offer your Villa for rent ( ie no internet presence, no Face Book advertising etc. or any form of promotion or commercialisation) then as a private owner you WILL be able to let immediate family stay in what is effectively a Private Residence.
I am sure that there will eventually be a reality check and provided the owner, guests and property manager can all say that no money has changed hands then all will be fine........... eventually.......
Beyond immediately family I think any Tax Man ( in any country ) could reasonably take the view that money ( or services ) has exchanged hands.
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New regulations meeting TOMORROW with police officers at Calis Beach Association Boulding
There is a meeting with Police officers about ID informing system for hotel and villa owners at Tuesday 14.00 pm.
They asked also Foreigners to join the meeting.
Meeting will be at Calis Beach Association Boulding on Calis boat street next to beach volleyball field.
There is many new regulations and all existing passwords will be renewed for hotel and villa owners.
They will provide forms to fill in (forms will be in English) to get a new password.
And you can ask questions about regulations.
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....signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.
(One for the Douglas Adams fans!)
The Vogons had to learn from somewhere!!
Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
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....signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.
(One for the Douglas Adams fans!)
The Vogons had to learn from somewhere!!
Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
Recepnic Vogon Jeltz??
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You've met him
Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
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I know that this will get changed though the course of the season but I see Inspector went to the meeting on the 8th May
Would like to ask a question to see if anyone can help
Our complex has decided to let the maintenance company deal with this BUT have just been informed by one of the owners that the registration has to be done daily now at £3 per day per apartment
But we was originally told it's check in / check out
Can anybody enlighten the details
????????????????????????????????????
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So my brother-in-law phoned the police in Fethiye about registering our Apartment, to be told the police guy who deals with registering is out having lunch and call back later. When he phoned back was then told 'the police guy' has been moved to a different area so no one there anymore to do the registration. Erm ok so.....?
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Burası Türkiye!
JF
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My hubby said the same John. :D
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Hi Roy,
I have tried to contact you on several other forums and holiday lets re your house for sale in Calis. My sister-in-law genuinely interested in buying your property and therefore would like to speak to you.
Regards
Hakan
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Can I taste SPAM ?
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Lets see where it goes :)
JF
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So we are nearly 4 months in to the new holiday / home rental agreements
Would like to ask if anyone has been approached by anybody wanting to check if you are signed up to this agreement.
Also if anyone knows anyone who has actually been caught for not having these agreements in place and was they fined or warned
Only really asking this as the subject seems to have gone very quiet on all forums in the Fethiye area
Or it some think we all jumped in to as I know some villa/apartments owners who haven't bothered to set this up and to date haven't had any problems.
Thanks
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We set up at local police station recently and the police guy who deals with this registering informed us he is working alone as they are short staffed. All seemed very relaxed.
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I have registered all the family that go out to mine, no issues to report
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The police also told us we don't need to register family members with same surname.
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In answers to Fishmans question I think human nature is going to mean that no one is going to come on here and say “I ignored all the advice, didn’t bother to register and now I have been caught and fined.”
But I am hearing from impeccable sources that there have been numerous cases of Villa owners now feeling the full force of the new regulations.
Lookout for the Maliye van and Police car in your area..........
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Doesn't surprise me. They've been doing it in Istanbul for months, especially in the Beyoğlu area where there is a high proportion of holiday lets. Already been the odd mention in the UK press about tourists bumped out of apartments after a visit from the the Polis and Maliye, which would not be a very pleasant experience for a tourist with no knowledge of Turkish.
JF
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No news of guests being ejected ...... just Owners being dealt with.
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If it's an illegal let, in Istanbul they seal the property while the matter is dealt with.
JF
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Fines for 2019:
Not registering the property 14.705 TL.
Registering but not sending reports 7.352 TL