Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Ovacik Discussion Forum => Topic started by: anna g on December 27, 2011, 18:32:41 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I understood the law for smoking in bars/resturants is that you are not allowed to smoke inside?
Well I am sick of going into places such as Abra/Friar Tucks and finding people happily smoking at tables and the bar. These people are very inconsiderate and selfish and should know better. What's worse still is the owners letting them. Even if you question this they just say they let the customers do it.
Just because it's winter and the bars are quiet shouldn't mean these people can do what they want. It's not such a hardish popping outside for a smoke. It's bad enough that there are not many places to go to during the winter but I am even more restriced now. I have a small son and not being able to go the the park when it's wet and cold it's nice to at least take him somewhere where he can have a run about and meet people but even this is proving now to be limited.
To the owners and customers who see this please why don't you abide by the law and stop being selfish. [:(!]
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Whether it is right or not (and that is a debate that will go on forever), these establishments are being actively targeted and fined - quite heavily. It's a good earner so once they get hit in the pocket a few times, I think you'll see their relaxed attitude change.
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Yes the smoking police havent been around yet But I expect they will after the New Years work is finished. Im a smoker but abide by the rules even when the bar owners insist its ok to smoke inside.
Have to agree with the majority of bar owners though, that the sobe or inside fire is smoking nicely so what difference does a ciggie make?
I cant see the Turks sitting down and letting their business go down the pan the same as many Bars in Uk did and in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway, its not a playground for when its cold outside
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Banning children from bars there would be a great move for a holiday resort.
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The soba doesn't produce nicotine you cant smoke in the supermarket or hospital or dentist ,i smoked for 54 years and gave up 2 years ,i didn't give it up in the u.k. if i wanted a fag outside i went ,but it made me cut down which was a good thing ,i would go out for a few pints and smoke 10 fags ,when the law changed 3/4 a session,and yes i agree no children in pubs,a lot of people go to the pub to get away from noisy unruly kids ,over here its different . ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Banning children from bars there would be a great move for a holiday resort.
... and planes and trains and beaches and supermarkets.
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Ask the owner to ban kids, I'm sure they'll turn away the family business from now without any worries at all :)
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I was replying to anna g s post specifically Is a bar really a substitute to a park just because the weather is cold? You dont see Turk kids out in the bars this time of year.
I smoke as I said. and Yetis and myself go outside all the time to not break the rules
Of course obey the rules But dont expect people to change their culture for your own interests
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So you don't see how bar owners would be willing to jeopardise part of their income caused by the banning smoking ("I cant see the Turks sitting down and letting their business go down the pan") but you think excluding the people with children part of their business will not be a problem for them.
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The bar owners can make their own minds up Its their business, Ive told those that allow smoking inside that they are stupid but it is their problem
I dont smoke inside for this reason
I didnt say I thought they should exclude kids! If anna j wants to take the kids to a bar Well dont expect everyone else to cater exclusively for kids in the Uk you cant take kids to a bar unless they have a childrens room
In the summer during tourist season the bars and reataurants are open to the air so thats no problem
Ive got Grand kids etc But I dont expect everyone to change the place just because i take them there
If you live here Except the way of life
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quote:
Originally posted by Julesp
in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway, its not a playground for when its cold outside
quote:
Originally posted by Julesp
I didnt say I thought they should exclude kids!
I must be missing something Jules
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I explained that I meant that a bar is not a kids playground just because it is winter
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No, what you said wasn't that a bar is not a kids playground just because it is winter. What you said was "in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway". I will now leave this discussion due to it being ridiculous.
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I had same idea. I think i may make my New Years Resolution to never post here again!
Byee !!
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Totally contradict yourself within 20 minutes then storm out when it is pointed out? I do apologise, I thought it was a discussion forum. It is a total mystery to me why we can't ever seem to have a decent discussion on here without someone making a scene and storming off when their opinion is challenged.
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I have to say that it is a very British thing not to want children in bars. On the continent they are a regular sight.
Then again they seem to be capable of sitting with adults and not interfering with other people.
Put kids in a situation, teach them how to behave and there is no problem.
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We had the opposite problem with ours - in Turkey they could go anywhere (and did) - many times taken round to make their own pide or puffy bread, or sat up on a bar stool etc. This was great, but when we visited the UK and went to pub/restaurant type places it could be a nightmare as they simply didn't understand that they were in a different country and couldn't do those things for a week or two :)
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Happy to have children in bars as long as they are not running around and if it's a "family" type bar (ie not aimed at adults with ultra loud music/adult comedy etc)- disagree that it is a substitute for when it is too wet for the park - or at least that's how it read to me - like it was somewhere to have a good run about. Sorry if that's not what was meant.
I don't like seeing tired kids wailing and weeping to go when adults are ignoring them but I do like to see children out with families and have no issues with the little ones falling asleep in pushchairs whilst parents have a relaxed drink -
Smoking in bars, well there should be a choice of establishments indoors in the winter but cannot agree that it is a danger or inconsiderate when outside......all been discussed before on here and there is never a conclusion.
Nothing wrong with a good discussion and challenging each others opinions but maybe it can be done in a less confrontational manner?
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Can you help me by pointing out a confrontational bit was please - I seriously can't see anything over confrontational :)
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I'm a smoker and I don't mind going outside to smoke. Yes it would be nice if bars had a smoke room for us people with this filthy habit especially in winter..I do seem to smoke less tho during the winter months..I must admit it is nice to walk into a bar that is not smelling of stale smoke..
On the topic of kids in bars, I don't mind that so long as the parents are looking after them so they are not annoying other patrons..I know it is very difficult to get babysitters over here and parents need to get out and socialise and have a good time..I also don't like seeing a child who is over tired and crying because there are some parents who only want to be there for the drink and don't think that their child should be home in bed..
Bars here need to earn a living to stay open all year round so that we can go out and enjoy an evening..
Happy New Year Everyone..xx
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Can you help me by pointing out a confrontational bit was please - I seriously can't see anything over confrontational :)
The way you have asked me to explain is less confrontational than previously to Julesp-
"No, what you said wasn't that a bar is not a kids playground just because it is winter. What you said was "in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway".
I agree there was a contradiction but when pointed out I just thought it was a bit harsh and I see that on here - and that's not exclusive to you Scunner. We don't have the benefit of facial expressions/body language and it can seem tougher maybe than it's meant to be?
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Jeremy Clarkson said that smokers should be taken outside and shot in front of their families. Now that is what I would call confrontational.
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Wasn't that strikers[?]
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I think you will find it was an entirely different group of people Jeremy Clarkson said should be shot as he is a very heavy smoker himself. ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluwise
The way you have asked me to explain is less confrontational than previously to Julesp-
"No, what you said wasn't that a bar is not a kids playground just because it is winter. What you said was "in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway".
I agree there was a contradiction but when pointed out I just thought it was a bit harsh and I see that on here - and that's not exclusive to you Scunner. We don't have the benefit of facial expressions/body language and it can seem tougher maybe than it's meant to be?
I still don't see it I'm afraid - someone can say that kids should not be allowed in bars, then say they didn't say it, and I, in pointing that out (simply by quoting what the individual said) was harsh?
Are we adults here or should people discuss things like they are dealing with a child and be wary of giving a similar but differing view but in a lovely fluffy way (unlike the statement that started it?). Surely if people don't want confrontation then they should steer clear of making controversial comments like "in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway" - such opinions are fabulous for discussion forums - because people can have a different view to the original one and a good debate always follows - so if you are going to make such a statement, get ready because you aren't going to get 100% of the replies agreeing with you and shock horror people will say so.
Life's like that...
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quote:
Life's like that...
I didn't get where I am today by having you tell me what life's like ! :D
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back on track..
I think this time of year i think you need compromise, most of the bars are quiet so why turn away the smokers? if there is a function going on and the place is full then they go outside for a smoke.
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quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
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Life's like that...
I didn't get where I am today by having you tell me what life's like ! :D
Of course not, life's not like that :D
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
back on track..
I think this time of year i think you need compromise, most of the bars are quiet so why turn away the smokers? if there is a function going on and the place is full then they go outside for a smoke.
I agree fully but the law is in place now. My opinion always has been that there should be no laws, Turkey, UK or anywhere - if the majority non-smokers need smoke free bars then the free market would see that potential and provide them. Same with child free bars - how many can you name in Fethiye? If there was one, how long would it last? I'll tell you, till the day the bar is empty and next door is busy serving families.
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I didn't suggest treating people like you would deal with children or to be "lovely/fluffy" - isn't that just going to the other extreme?
It clearly upset Julesp to be shown in no uncertain terms that she had contradicted herself but maybe confrontational was the wrong word - but whatever a more appropriate word may be, it was enough for her to say she was thinking of departing the forum.
I'm happy to follow or join in a good debate without being shocked or horrified at disagreements and I'm not going to spit my dummy out when challenged :.. which at some point I surely will be.
Now back to smoking in bars:.bring it on! :D
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Well I still think that the best way not to feel back about having your contradictions pointed out is not to make them ;)
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Agree with all you have said - 110% [:X]
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quote:
Originally posted by grahamturner09
I think you will find it was an entirely different group of people Jeremy Clarkson said should be shot as he is a very heavy smoker himself. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Wasn't that strikers[?]
I will not stoop to using smiley emoticons.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
back on track..
I think this time of year i think you need compromise, most of the bars are quiet so why turn away the smokers? if there is a function going on and the place is full then they go outside for a smoke.
I agree fully but the law is in place now. My opinion always has been that there should be no laws, Turkey, UK or anywhere - if the majority non-smokers need smoke free bars then the free market would see that potential and provide them. Same with child free bars - how many can you name in Fethiye? If there was one, how long would it last? I'll tell you, till the day the bar is empty and next door is busy serving families.
Spot on Keith[^]
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Wasn't that strikers[?]
I will not stoop to using smiley emoticons.
But will you agree it was strikers not smokers.
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Well I'd shoot them all (smokers and strikers ;))
We have had this discussion more than once or twice. My view is it's great to go out and not have to breathe in second hand smoke and have my clothes stink the next morning - but I do have some sympathy for those who want a fag or two with their drink. Maybe a smokers room could be the answer in some pubs but if they can't or won't provide one then in my opinion they should abide by the law and be made to go outside.
Even outside they should show some common courtesy and not blow their smoke over those eating close by.
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quote:
"I will not stoop to using smiley emoticons."
Will Stoop stoop?
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Of course, he was speaking of strikers but I knew that and so does everyone else.
It was an attempt at some whimsy and mild amusement following the 'confrontation' that preceded my contribution.
My attempt was clearly unsuccessful.
"All self-styled wisecrackers should be taken out and shot in front of their families."
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quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Well I'd shoot them all (smokers and strikers ;))
We have had this discussion more than once or twice. My view is it's great to go out and not have to breathe in second hand smoke and have my clothes stink the next morning - but I do have some sympathy for those who want a fag or two with their drink. Maybe a smokers room could be the answer in some pubs but if they can't or won't provide one then in my opinion they should abide by the law and be made to go outside.
Even outside they should show some common courtesy and not blow their smoke over those eating close by.
Where they going to blow it then stoop, into a paper bag and take it home. ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Totally contradict yourself within 20 minutes then storm out when it is pointed out? I do apologise, I thought it was a discussion forum. It is a total mystery to me why we can't ever seem to have a decent discussion on here without someone making a scene and storming off when their opinion is challenged.
No, what you said wasn't that a bar is not a kids playground just because it is winter. What you said was "in my opinion Children should not be allowed in bars anyway". I will now leave this discussion due to it being ridiculous.
Your Post scunner !!
You said it was ridiculous
I agree!!
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It was a ridiculour post to start with in the beginning julesp. Thats my opinion anyway, due to the fact it has been debated on this forum many times and there is NO answer! People who want to smoke will anywhere the proprietor lets them. I'd rather have a CONSIDERATE smoker than kids in a bar when I go out for a quiet drink! I do not want to be a babysitter to keep other peoples kids amused. If they sat nicely next to the parent thats a different matter but the majority just let them walk around to keep them amused by other people!
Got my crash helmet on already folks!! :)
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quote:
Originally posted by desmartinson
quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Well I'd shoot them all (smokers and strikers ;))
We have had this discussion more than once or twice. My view is it's great to go out and not have to breathe in second hand smoke and have my clothes stink the next morning - but I do have some sympathy for those who want a fag or two with their drink. Maybe a smokers room could be the answer in some pubs but if they can't or won't provide one then in my opinion they should abide by the law and be made to go outside.
Even outside they should show some common courtesy and not blow their smoke over those eating close by.
Where they going to blow it then stoop, into a paper bag and take it home. ;)
That's a great idea! But a more practical one is for them not to light up next to those eating food :)
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Nice to know the pull of CBF is as strong as ever though ;)
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Wow, I did n't expect such a debate on this and that 'kids in bars' would come into it.
I posted this as I am fairly new here so sorry if it's all been discussed before but I wanted to have my say and find out the policy on smoking.
Keeping to the my original query and post, I now know the law on this and as such it's very simple whatever any one's opinions are. No smoking in enclosed premises so that means no smoking. Winter or summer or whatever. Bar owners/customers alike should take note.
As to 'kids in bars' and a few of Julesp's and a few other's comments.
I don't take my son to bars instead of the playground but both, my point was as it is winter places to go are limited. We go to the playground/beach weather permitting, walks in the pram and the local bars/restaurants that are open. So my point was simply that we are pretty well stuck for places to go if I cannot take him into one of our local resturants if it's full of smoke.
My persception of these places are that they are family orientated and have always welcomed us. I am from London and I know the restrictions of taking children to pubs/resturants. Living the turkish way is basicaly very different to living in London hence you don't feel awkward going into places with your children.
On a personal note I am talking about time in the afternoon where my son and myself can get of the flat for an hour, visit one of the local bars/restaurants where we are known and he can meet people and I meant "having a run about" literally. But of course he will want to explore but myself or his dad are always with him.
If I visit a place that is meant to be a smoke free zone then that's what it should be.
It's been interesting reading and thanks for everyone's views.
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Spot on Anna.
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Anna - are there no smoke free restaurants at all? I would have thought at least some would be abiding by the rules. Or is it just your preferred restaurants/bars are allowing it and that is annoying you?
Stoop - I can't say I have ever seen anyone deliberately blowing smoke over others and if you are sat outside a restaurant you would be hard pressed not to sit near someone eating.
Sounds like you want it all your own way to me folks.
At least the majority of smokers are asking for establishments to offer a choice rather than insisting everywhere be "smoking allowed"
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Bluwise - did I say 'deliberatley'? No I didn't think so.
What I am getting at is those smokers who finish their meal and then light up next to a table with people eating on it. If I was a smoker (and I was once) I would firstly ask them if they minded and if they did I would either refrain from lighting up or go for a walk - somewhere away from the tables.
That's what I meant by 'common courtesy'.
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I read your line "not blowing smoke over those eating close by" as suggesting it was being blown towards someone eating which suggests deliberate to me rather than accidentally coming your way in the breeze. I do agree consideration should be given in trying to avoid that happening - I would avoid a restaurant with tables close together for that reason.
I guess if someone had the good manners to ask if you mind if they smoke then it would only be polite to say "not at all, please go ahead" ;)
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Anna - are there no smoke free restaurants at all? I would have thought at least some would be abiding by the rules. Or is it just your preferred restaurants/bars are allowing it and that is annoying you?
Bluewise, we do go to Four Seasons sometimes which we enjoy and now The Morning Star so yes we have found somewhere else although the others were/are regular places for us.
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One problem is that the owners can see the business they get from letting smokers smoke, but never see the business they have lost because they let smokers smoke.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
One problem is that the owners can see the business they get from letting smokers smoke, but never see the business they have lost because they let smokers smoke.
Do I detect a little irony here?
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No
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One problem is that the owners can see the business they get from stopping smokers smoking, but never see the business they have lost because they don't let smokers smoke.
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My point was that smokers don't stop going to bars because they can't smoke in them, but people who don't smoke do stop going if they allow people to carry on smoking in them. Bar owners tend to see the people who are in the bar (smoking or otherwise) but they don't give a moment's thought to those who aren't there but might have been if things were different. It's not a point about smokers or non-smokers, it's a point about the inability of some to see anything more than what is directly in front of them.
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But it does cut both ways Scunner - many people don't go to bars now because they can't have a cig with their drink / after dinner - it's had a huge impact on the pub trade here.
But yes, I see your point now about some owners not being aware of what drives their business whichever way the wind blows....... preferably not toward Stoop if they have a fag on!!
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I'm not anti-smokers at all, I was one until coming up about three years ago and I have no problem with people smoking around me. I remember sitting down in Finans bank and first thing was always being offered a fag and lighting up, so things have had to move a long way over there. I also remember the rule of cigarette smoke - it leaves the cigarette in exactly the direction of the non-smoker - and I understand why non-smokers prefer the smoke free bars since the bans here and in Turkey (although I probably don't, the air is far too clean & clinical these days ;) ). It quite obviously has hit the pub trade here, along with cheap supermarket booze - for the price of 2 pints in my local I could buy 15 bottles of the same beer in Tesco. As I said pages ago, I think if non-smokers felt that strongly as a whole then their beer money was hugely significant enough for bar owners and breweries to see the opportunity and bring in their own smoke free pubs to cash in - this didn't happen and therefore there was no tangible demand from the majority of pub goers (the non-smokers).
All that said, it is still a lot easier for smokers to nip outside in Turkey (for much of the year they probably are outside anyway) compared to here where people nip outside for a fag and end up encased in ice. The idea that smokers who tell us they so kindly go outside when they want a fag but think kids should be banned from bars is ridiculous - one is banned and one isn't. There are no brownie points for obeying the law.
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I can remember years ago when we had a business in Blackpool and when it was still a thriving town that there was a club on Central Drive that started allowing children in on a Saturday night. It went from being a place where people queued up to get in to watch good cabaret and have a good time to a place that was nearly empty due to kids running riot in the place. On one of our infrequent visits there we were sitting by a family who proceeded to change her babies s"""""y nappy on the table in front of us. Needless to say our last visit.
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Ah well, this debate will also be a thing of the past soon when the new law kicks in and supermarkets have to hide their cigs and tobacco stock from view. Of course this will be so effective and means all smokers will immediately give up and anti-smokers / youngsters can then mix freely with the once lower classes.
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As a smoker, i completely understand that we should be outside smoking, i wouldnt dream of smoking at home, i have had periods of time when i have given up and i wouldnt have wanted a smoker sat next to me in a restaurant. Smoking outside is something that you just get used to, no big deal, plus in Turkey its easier and warmer to stand outside. I wouldnt take my kids into a bar that was full of smokers, when we lived in Turkey it was far more acceptable to take your kids everywhere that you go, although i never stood propping up a bar drunk with my daughter in tow!
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluwise
I read your line "not blowing smoke over those eating close by" as suggesting it was being blown towards someone eating which suggests deliberate to me rather than accidentally coming your way in the breeze. I do agree consideration should be given in trying to avoid that happening - I would avoid a restaurant with tables close together for that reason.
I guess if someone had the good manners to ask if you mind if they smoke then it would only be polite to say "not at all, please go ahead" ;)
It totally depends when they ask really. If I was right in the middle of my meal I would ask them if they would mind going elsewhere but if I was getting towards the end of my meal then I wouldn't have a problem really.
It also depends how big they are ;)
As for 'blowing smoke over those close by' well unforatunatley the human body doesn't allow us to suck all the time - we have to blow out occasionally ;) So my guess is that someone next to them will receive the second hand smoke.
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I smoked for many years but hate it now. My first impression of our lovely hotel in Antalya was running the gauntlet through all the smokers by the entrance.
I hate it, never mind smoking outside, I'd have them all out the back!
Just before I moved to Turkey I bought a small terraced house in Portsmouth.
Not only do they smoke outside there, but they do it on their doorsteps in their dressing gowns! Shock horror!
Linda ( reformed smoker and snob! ) (and just jealous cos after all these years I still crave the odd ciggie)