Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Health & Healthcare => Topic started by: scouser2swife on November 22, 2009, 13:36:35 PM
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Hi all. I have just arrived back from a trip to England to find that my husband had taken ill and was in Esnaf hospital.I arrived there after he had been admitted 24 hours earlier.He hadn't been offered a wash or a shower by the staff there so I helped him to shower.Today I arrived to find that He had been sick in his bed and that none of the staff had been in to see him for about 2-3 hours. His buzzer to summon the nurse had been placed outside the bed and he could not reach it! I went to the nurses desk to find that no one there could speak English.I then had to go downstairs to the English speaking receptionist to tell her what I wanted the nursing staff to do.When I got back up to my husbands room, staff appeared out of nowhere and cleaned him up.(I had to cover my husband up because the nurse seemed to think that it was ok to sit him naked in a chair while the female cleaner mopped up the floor and changed the bed!!) He was then given the medication he was supposed to have earlier in the morning. Has anyone else had this happen to them? My husband is very upset about this and wants to come home, but the English speaking receptionist says that there is no doctor on duty there today so I cannot bring him home.
I was a nurse before I retired and would never have treated a patient in this way. I know people knock the NHS in England and sometimes quite rightly, but Esnaf is a private hospital and my poor hubby has been treated really shoddily by the staff there.I hope and pray that this is a one off incident.
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Hope you get him home soon and that he makes a full recovery.
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the english speaking receptionist it would seem had got it wrong there are docters there on duty 24/7 and specialsts on call.
a strong complaint is needed and hopefully your husband is recovering now.
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Oh and I forgot to mention that a nurse came in to the room, handed me a specimen pot and indicated to me to get a sample of his faeces! they did not give me a pair of gloves so i have left it for them to do.I love my hubby, but I draw the line at this!
Many thanks for your well wishes.
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Im sorry to say that we dont have great memories of the esnaf either....I wont bore you with the details but just warn you that complaining or trying to get any kind of refund is not worth the time, effort or money. We tried through the courts to get our money back for a mistake made by the surgeon and it cost us lots.
I just hope you manage to get home soon and that your husband recovery goes well. Also I agree with stuart, there is always a doctor on call so keep on at them
All the best
Lesley
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My mom-in-law has twice been rushed into the Esnaf Hospital and I cannot praise them highly enough.She was put in a private room,X ray/scan immediately,quick results explained in the room.Any member of staff in a red uniform speaks English.She was handed a menu,plus a menu from the restaurant across the road,with a direct phone line.The chefs clear your selected choice with the medical staff.Within 30 minutes a guy came in and changed the plasma TV over to English language.There was a bed settee and armchairs in the room and we were offered bedding to stay the night.The mom-in-law is elderly but she was pleased when she knew where she was headed the second time!Excellent. [^][^]
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Make her day and book her in for next year Kev :D
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Already booked for the five weeks we're there, :D:D
(tell her nearer the time): :)
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She should get a free T shirt this time
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I went back to the hospital this evening to find that not only is my husband vomiting but now appears to have picked up a stomach bug.He had the runs and when I got there the 'Nursing' staff had put an adult nappy on him(no gown or pyjamas).My lovely husband was extremely distressed and said that he felt humiliated and had asked to see a doctor.He was told that there was no doctor on duty.I asked the staff who took it upon themselves to undress my hubby and put a nappy on him. I got the response of shrugged shoulders.I could not find any member of staff who spoke English (wearing a red uniform or not).I am totally disgusted at the way my lovely gentle hubby has been treated.
First thing in the morning I am bringing him home.I am totally disheartened by his treatment by alleged 'health professionals'.I sincerely hope that other people bear in mind my hubbys treatment when they have a loved one who is ill.
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By the way I really don't think this is a laughing matter Mr Scunner. If it was your family perhaps you wouldn't be so glib.
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I feel so sorry for your poor hubby, it must be bad enough for him being poorly but that all sounds horrendous, hopefully you will be able to bring hom home tomorrow.
It may be the language barrier making these things take place or maybe what the Turkish do when they are ill, anyway I hope he soon feels better.
Best wishes Karen.
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Thanks Karennia. Glad to know that not everyone thinks it's a big joke.
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I was laughing at something Kevin3 said about his mother in law, and so was he. Show me any post where someone thought it was a big joke about your husband and I'll delete it.
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i hope all turns out well and hubbie recovers. i felt so sorry that he and you have had to put up with this treatment. i hope i or hubbie do not get ill i would not want to go there
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Mr Scunner.The fact that yourself and Kev3 can joke about someone being booked into hospital for their holiday and that they get the Tshirt shows that you have a sense of humour (as misplaced as it is in this case), However I only think that it is fair to warn other people of the treatment that can happen in these hospitals.Can you not see that this is a very stressful time for myself and my husband....Incidentally my husband is only in his 50's and if it can happen to someone as young as him it can happen to other peoples elderly relatives.
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I can indeed see that it is a very stressful time for you and your husband and wish you both better luck.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
I can indeed see that it is a very stressful time for you and your husband and wish you both better luck.
Thank you Mr Scunner.I am sorry if I sound like a crank. I just want to warn people of the lack of care that my wonderful,gentle,and compassionate husband has received at this hospital.My husband has been deprived of his dignity during his illness at the hands of these so called nurses and I cannot and will never,ever recommend this hospital to anyone.
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That is terrible treatment, I would be asking for some kind of discount.
Hope he has a speedy recovery at home.
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I find the inconsistencies in people's experiences of Esnaf alarming. I know if you ask 10 people about 1 restaurant or film you will get good and bad reports. BUT in this one thread there are two very differing views and I think Esnaf should look seriously into the cases where people feel let down. They may well slide out of any legal responsibility, but bad publicity does them no good at all.
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin b
That is terrible treatment, I would be asking for some kind of discount.
Hope he has a speedy recovery at home.
Thank you Kevin B.I doubt that they give discounts.I know that I can nurse him better than the staff at Esnaf myself at home.
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I had the dubious pleasure of a short stay at the Esnaf. Apart from being obsessed with saline drips and taking your temperature, I had to endure trying to sleep while the night nurse literally put her feet up (on the desk), watched TV - ALL NIGHT - on a distorting portable TV about 2m from my head, while continually shelling and eating sunflower seeds.
People were surprised that I discharged myself, for the good of my health.
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quote:
Originally posted by scouser2swife
quote:
Originally posted by kevin b
That is terrible treatment, I would be asking for some kind of discount.
Hope he has a speedy recovery at home.
Thank you Kevin B.I doubt that they give discounts.I know that I can nurse him better than the staff at Esnaf myself at home.
Well I am sure he will be happier and therefore get better sooner once he's happily at home. This experience has shaken both of you and you're better out of it.
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I agree with Rindi on this one, you hear both good and bad about the Esnaf,my experience, or should I say diagnosis was wrong, and left me walking around with a broken arm for 3 weeks when they treated me for a sprained wrist, so I would not go there again, but its not nice when you are ill or in pain, and i find the nappy part a disgrace,every patient should be treated with dignity and that is bang out of order.
Hope your husband gets well soon.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo
I find the inconsistencies in people's experiences of Esnaf alarming. I know if you ask 10 people about 1 restaurant or film you will get good and bad reports. BUT in this one thread there are two very differing views and I think Esnaf should look seriously into the cases where people feel let down. They may well slide out of any legal responsibility, but bad publicity does them no good at all.
Hi Rindaloo.I am a retired health professional and I know that we are talking about My husband in this case here,but when a person is paying for Private Health Care, they have a certain expectation that their loved ones are being looked after.If My hubby was in the care of the NHS in England, I would have a case of negligence against this hospital (my daughter has just gained her degree in Law at Liverpool University and she has told me) However this is Turkey and they are a law unto themselves.I just want to make EVERYONE aware that there is more than ONE hospital in our area and that EVERYONE makes the right decision when it comes to obtaining health care for their loved ones.I will NEVER allow anyone from my family to have medical treatment from this Hospital facility again.
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:-\ For comparison purposes, I'll leave my post (above). That was the Letoon hospital not Esnaf :-\ Takes your pick/chances [xx(]
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A big Thank You to all of you that have responded and sent good wishes to my hubby.I feel much better knowing that although we do not know you all personally, we are part of a community, and God willing we may meet up sometime (when Scouser2 is well enough).God Bless you ALL.
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Oh yes and I forgot to mention that I told the 'nursing staff' that I would be bringing food in for my husband....So why are the 'nursing staff' ordering meals from the cafeteria (at least 3 courses) for him and why are they immediately being removed from his room?
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That IS weird. Is someone else hungry????
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scouser2wife.Our only worry each time we travel to Turkey has been 'what if the mom-in-law,given her age and medical condition,falls ill'.Well she has done,twice.We have had an English-speaking doctor at our place within three minutes of a phone call,followed by an ambulance within five minutes of their phone call off the doctor.Taken from Hisaronu to Fethiye,seen within two minutes of arrival,scans taken and the results produced straight away.(Two years ago my wife needed a scan on her spine in the UK.Our NHS Hospital told her there was an eight week waiting list for a scan.I paid private,£350 pounds,and it still took three days.!!)So you can see why the Esnaf has amazed me,twice.I can only speak as I find.You have my sympathy regarding your husbands condition,and I hope he makes a speedy recovery.As regards a sense of humour on this Forum,why not.It may explain why there are so many members.Wish you well. :)
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i must be lucky, having had quite a bit of experiance with the hesnaf hospital one way or another.
i have always found their services excelent.
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I hope your husband is feeling better soon. I'm very shocked at the treatment he's being given as they were fantastic when I had my baby there in September. I couldn't fault them in any way and saw 2 doctors on the Sunday, 1 to check me and 1 to check the baby. It may be worth asking to speak to the head guy there, Dr Erdogan and he speaks very good English. The tourist desk would be able to sort that out for you - it's worth a try.
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What a stressfull time for you both,hope your husband is better soon.
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I know the wearing of adult nappies is strange to us, but I do believe it is standard practice all over Turkey. I was given one to wear after I had my youngest in the Esnaf, and my sister-in-law was also made to wear them when she had her baby in the Devlet hospital. Personally myself and my family have always received excellent treatment from Esnaf, but having read the comments on here, it does seem as if their service can be very hit and miss.
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This must have been a very distressing time for you with the major indignaties your hubby has had to endure, let alone the fact he is unwell.
Our family has much medical background, unfortunately as we all know in the UK it is far from perfect, much based on luck as to which hospital you go to and also what ward you are in!, the difference on how you are treated from one ward to another can be incredible.....some poor nurses are working their socks off and
others have all the time in the world to do nothing!...sad but true.
I really do think you should ask to speak to the head person at Esnaf and explain everything, if nothing is done it will be a shame but if they are not aware then you should make them.
Hope your hubby improves and you get him home for a bit of TLC.
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Hello everyone. I managed to get my hubby home yesterday afternoon. He's still not 100% but with a lot of TLC he'll soon be on the mend.Hospital bill was massive, so please everyone make sure you get some health insurance.
Thanks to everyone for their kind wishes.
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am still a bit puzzled at your treatment there, is it rude to ask what was wrong with him?
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Did you query any of the bill? The food, for instance.
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I managed to speak to an English speaking receptionist and told her that we had not ordered any food, as he was nil by mouth for 36 hours and that I was bringing him food in.It was brushed aside as if I had not spoken.(the usual problem yok syndrome)
I asked for an itemised bill, but none was forthcoming.I honestly do not know what I have or have not paid for.I am just relieved that my hubby is home.
I will never use this hospital again.
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I'm sorry to hear of your distressing experiences; they are worrying for all of us who rely on Turkey for our health care. However, there was a similar problem when I lived on Rhodes, where we had a saying: " If I fall ill, don't take me to the hospital, take me to the airport".
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For future reference - anyone can discharge themselves from hospital, including the Esnaf, whether there is a Doctor present or not (as I did). They will ask you to sign a discharge form agreeing to take responsibility. The esnaf wanted to keep me in overnight after a fall and I refused. I didn't consider it necessary.
One other point,this happened late at night after going to a friends house. I didn't have any credit cards on me and they insisted on their 'security' man accompanying me home to make sure I paid the bill. This I found highly offensive as I had assured them I would return the next day to pay. They had all my details, passport, address, phone no's etc.
One other point, after 'removing' the stitches from 2 wounds two weeks later I found they had left 4 stitches in. Luckily I had a friend who was an ex nurse to take them out.
I think you will find, Scouser2swife, that if the insurance was picking up the bill they would have charged for food and everything. Insist on an itemised bill and tell your insurance company what happened
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What an awful situation to be in!! I will take this opportunity to say that I only have bad things to say about the hospital. I nearly lost my newborn child to meningitis due to the greed that keeps that hospital in business. They knew he was too sick for them to treat, yet kept him in to make the money from us. It was only when he was having violent seizures (at 7 days old) that they thought they better transfer us to Izmir. It was 7am when we got the call to come in and sign our baby out, and hospital admin would not let the ambulance leave for Izmir until we produced 2,500 lira for their services (even though he was seizuring non-stop). They did not provide sufficient testing, gave no diagnosis, would not let me see my newborn in IC for 4 horrible days, could not put his drip in without 10 to 20 tries first, gave him a drug which is proven to cause deafness in children...need I go on? This was all after they sent us home the first night we ever went in with the baby, saying he had a throat infection. My best friend here has an equally terrifying story to tell. You might not get english cable TV or a la carte dining at the devlet, but at least you know they are not just robbing you. Best of luck with your husband!!
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How many hospitals are there in Fethiye/Calis & which are private & which are state[?]
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quote:
Originally posted by ella
What an awful situation to be in!! I will take this opportunity to say that I only have bad things to say about the hospital. I nearly lost my newborn child to meningitis due to the greed that keeps that hospital in business. They knew he was too sick for them to treat, yet kept him in to make the money from us. It was only when he was having violent seizures (at 7 days old) that they thought they better transfer us to Izmir. It was 7am when we got the call to come in and sign our baby out, and hospital admin would not let the ambulance leave for Izmir until we produced 2,500 lira for their services (even though he was seizuring non-stop). They did not provide sufficient testing, gave no diagnosis, would not let me see my newborn in IC for 4 horrible days, could not put his drip in without 10 to 20 tries first, gave him a drug which is proven to cause deafness in children...need I go on? This was all after they sent us home the first night we ever went in with the baby, saying he had a throat infection. My best friend here has an equally terrifying story to tell. You might not get english cable TV or a la carte dining at the devlet, but at least you know they are not just robbing you. Best of luck with your husband!!
I am so sorry for you Ella.What a nightmare for you.I know the treatment my hubby had was bad, but Dear God what you had to go through.I pray that someone at the hospital reads these views and realises that not everything revolves around money and that they need to get their act together if they are providing health care.I hope that anyone reading these horror stories makes an informed choice when thinking about which health care facility they choose to use.
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin b
How many hospitals are there in Fethiye/Calis & which are private & which are state[?]
As far as I know there are two large private hospitals (Esnaf and Letoon) and there are 2 Government hospitals, one of which (Sigorta Hastanesi) is only available to people with SSK. The main Government hospital is near Calis.
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Yes scouser2swife, before now I have not had the opportunity to tell my story publicly, it is interesting to see that there are so many other bad stories out there. Hopefully it does help people to make more informed decisions. I remember when I broke my arm 8 years ago, I was taken to the Government hospital at it's old site in central Fethiye, I am glad to say that these days the new Devlet hospital is much bigger and cleaner. Having said that, if I were to get ill, I would be going straight to Izmir! Bet you are glad to be home!
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Some of these stories are shocking. Our oen experience of the hospital (when sister in law had a ruptured appendix whilst staying with us) was very good - although they did ask us to pay our insurance excess to them. When we got home we had to pay the same again to the insurance company.
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So, Is the Esnaf also screwing people for Exesses they have no right to?????
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My wife had a broken wrist fixed without any problems at Esnaf. Their only mistake was to give her a written permission to fly in a cast that was not suitable. Luckily there were no comebacks.
If you pick any hospital in the UK I wonder how many nightmare experiences you would find on questioning a forum of nearly 6,000 people [?]
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Was reading about a week ago of a case where a young child was diagnosed as having a sore throat by three separate doctors in hospital and subsequently sadly died with meningitis. Not in Turkey this was the UK so horror stories abound everywhere:(
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I agree Tribaleader...I used to work in the NHS before I took early retirement due to ill health.In NHS hospitals you get good and bad staff and good and bad wards, however when you are paying for (expensive)private treatment you have a certain expectation that you will receive the treatment and nursing care that you need.
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I agree that with ANYTHING, whether it be hospitals, hotels, builders, you will always get a variety of opinions and experiences. BUT, if there are a lot of bad reports from one place, surely you would have to think twice about using it. ESPECIALLY is that place seemed to shrug off any accusations of blame when a complaint is made against them. When I came here it was with optimism that Esnaf was a good hospital. I have had good and bad experiences there in the past. I have heard good and bad reports from others. I have now heard enough bad stories to make me very wary. That's life. You weigh up the good and the bad and make your decisions.
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I agree that this case has been dreadful...as have some of the others which have come to light in this tread. However, it is a fact of life that people only tend to tell about their bad experiences.
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True, but if you are considering going to hospital for treatment and you know some bad stories about one place, it does tend to make you reluctant to trust them.
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Totally agree with you there Rindaloo...personally I would say I have had 3 or 4 bad experiences at the Devlet hospital, always found the Letoon to be very unhelpful and have had nothing but good service from Esnaf. I will say, however, that reading these posts, it seems to me that while the Esnaf seems to be good with dealing with minor complaints and small procedures, they don't seem to be as good at dealing with emergencies. That's just my take on it though.
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as said you have to weigh things up..if your over here you need to have some form of medical insurance or a shed load of money..as anywhere in the world.
in my opinion hesnaf is the best available in fethiye region, having said that i would go and have done to larger cities in turkey for more serious complaints and operations where the treatment is world class and reasonably priced.
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Out of curiosity how many people have had fractures (whether simple or compound), gone to the Esnaf, and had them pinned? Has anyone just had the bone reset (like a wrist for instance?)
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Don't know if this counts as I am unsure if a pin would ever be used in this case, but my son broke his finger at the beginning of this summer, and the Esnaf just reset the bone.
Strangly enough, for this injury, we did originally take him to the Devlet, waited 2 hours to be seen, had an x-ray, confirmed the bone was broken, but then were told that as it was a weekend, there was no one available to do the cast (this was a Saturday) They did put on a temporary cast (which lasted a couple of hours if that)and we were told to go back on the Monday. We got to the hospital at 8 am on the Monday, to be told there were 64 people in front of us waiting to see the same doctor, and that it would be Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning before we got our turn. This was when we decided to go to the Esnaf.
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My wife's wrist was just reset and plastered.
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My Husband had his arm pinned and plated and his elbow reset from dislocation. Pins broke, plate dislodged and elbow was still dislocated when we returned to UK 6 months later!!! UK doctor said a vet would have done a better job!
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On the fourth day that my baby was ill, the Obstetrician who delivered him (who was on her way out), pulled my husband aside and said "take your child and leave this hospital NOW, go straight to Izmir". Kind of makes you wonder....
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Two months ago my mother broke her wrist and went to the Esnaf who told her she needed it to be pinned and that the total cost would be in excess of 3000 Lira. I took her to the Devlet who said no pinning was necessary, reset her wrist and protected it with a plastic covering whilst it was healing. She is now perfectly Ok. Cost 290 Lira. I think money is their main motivation!!!
WW
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Dislocated my wrist and fractured my hand in July went to Devlet Hospital who did a brilliant job, in and out within an hour. No anaesthetic just put back in position and sent on my way cost £170. On arrival back home I went to the local hospital who told me Devlet had done a brilliant job and could not have been put back in a better condition. I do agree that it does depend on being in the right place at the right time.
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I have annual health insurance taken out here and I am not allowed to go to Esnaf. They have been struck off by the insurance company - don't know why though.
I have to go to Letoon the other local private hospital - hope there aren't as many horror stories about there.
I have heard the ones (rumours or reality I have no idea) about Letoon, child abduction and organ removals...!
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Those rumours also involved the Esnaf
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As I understand things, the Esnaf told a Turkish client that if they chose to settle their treatment bill privately it would be far less than what they would invoice their insurance company. In other words, they would make it cheaper if they paid privately than what next years premium might increase by due to a large claim on it. Said client informed her insurers and after a short time, the Esnaf was gone from the insurance company lists.
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I'd heard that the Esnaf is 'blacked' from insurance people as well. Rumours, of course
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It isn't rumours, you can check the lists of hospitals that insurance companies will allow you to go to - Esnaf is no longer on some of the main ones.
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I have taken relatives to the Esnaf on three different occassions. The lastest was my father this year. The treatment he was given was second to none. He had a considerable amount done and a two night stay. My mother was aloud to stay with him and they provided food for her also. The hospital was being cleaned around the clock and the staff on every level were efficient and kind. On arrival there was no wait at all, unlike the NHS ! The bill at the end of all of this was a very pleasant surprise. Compared to a private hospital in the UK it was amazing value with just as good, if not better service. I have only ever had good experiences from this hospital.
As far as billing is concerned, i would like to point out that private hospitals in the uk charge each insurance company vastly different amounts for the same procedure. It is dependent on how much business the insurance company throws the hospitals way. If you wish to pay your own bill privatey then the amount will be different again. (cheaper)
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It is very sad and somewhat worrying to read of the treatment differences at our local hospitals, I hope anyone who needs to visit these hospitals get a good service but as a previous post says we have little voice as ex-pats in recourse, but we can decide on informed experiences for future reference. I have experience only of the Letoon hospital on 2 seperate issues once for my pregnant partner in February this year and this month for my self, both were issues treated as out patients with follow on check ups although my partner was offered to stay in if wanted but felt we did not want to at the time. I can say that we were very happy with the service on these 4 visits, both in treatment and service. The charges were in our opinion not excessive in connection to the treatment both of us had blood tests, my partner a full ultra sound twice, me a chest x ray and doctor consultations for 126 Lira and 113 Lira respectivley and we would recommend the hospital from this for outpatient treatment. I add that the Letoon is dated and looks a bit shabby but at the end of the day it did the job for us and in my partners case very quickly as needed for the circumstances at the time. I would be interested to hear anyone elses opinions especially on inhouse treatment, I note Scunners experience. Hope this helps.
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Esnaf is back on my insurers list... they have reached a new deal apparently... Don't know much more than that though.
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if you have turkish national health insurance and you opt for private treatment hesnaf is only 30% of nomnal cost.
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Difficult to decide where to go if you're ill - just pray it doesn't happen.
Esnaf will often charge you for treatment you don't need and often fail to diagnose serious problems, but at least you get seen quicker than going to Devlet.
The problem is you're never sure if the diagnosis is correct and whether the treatment they give is necessary or just a money-making exercise.
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quote:
Originally posted by chewyturk
Difficult to decide where to go if you're ill - just pray it doesn't happen.
Esnaf will often charge you for treatment you don't need and often fail to diagnose serious problems, but at least you get seen quicker than going to Devlet.
The problem is you're never sure if the diagnosis is correct and whether the treatment they give is necessary or just a money-making exercise.
I could not agree with you more.They are there as a money making facility rather than a hospital in my opinion.
They wanted my hubby to stay in another 5 days for 'observation'.After seeing the treatment he was getting I told the doctor that as a qualified staff nurse, I would observe him at home where he could have 24 hours a day care and not the'intermittent' care that he was receiving there.The doctor wasn't too happy at having his decision challenged,but I was insistent that I could cope....also the cost of another 5 days in hospital would have cost in the region of another £2000-£2500 which on top of the £1500 bill that we paid was astronomical for what they did. If either of us get ill again we will either go to Devlet or get on the next flight back to England.
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Interesting article in the Daily News today.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-will-you-do-if-you-have-a-health-problem-2009-12-16