MRSA

[lindacarl]

If the hand wash/alcohol is used properly Stuart then ALL bacteria will be killed off, their cell walls will collapse, shrink, whatever. Unfortunately people don't use it properly they miss deep down between their fingers & their nails. However it's better to use & at least kill most bacteria than go into a ward covered in bacteria & yes you will be covered as all you need to do is touch any surface - door handles are really bad - to pick up more bacteria.

The bacterias resistance to antibiotics - which I suppose you mean by poison- is because they have mutated so the antibiotic won't work on them these mutated bactera are also on everything we touch.
You can fit billions of bacteria on a pinhead - they are single cells.

To enable you to see if a room surface is contaminated you have to grow the bacteria for at least 3 days usually 5 until so many bacteria (billions or zillions) have been reproduced that you can visually see them on an agar plate.

Consider the fact that 1 bacteria becomes 2 in say 20mins, 2 become 4 in 40min, 4 become 8 in 1 hr.
In 2 hrs you have 64 bacteria, in 3 hrs 512, 4hrs 4096, 5hrs 32,768 in under 7 hrs the 1 bacteria you started will have become 2 million et. etc. Any one of the splitting of any of these bacteria into 2 could result in a mutation which is resistant to antibiotics. It's a wonder really why we don't have more bacteria that are resistant.

Trust me we used to check whether people in the sterile dept. were washing & using proper aseptic techniques. If handwash is used properly very few if any (for those with the better technique) bacteria will grow on the agar plate. If it's notr used or used incorrectly a mass of bacteria will grow.

They haven't got a brain Stuart so they're not trying to outsmart us. They're just trying to divide & grow but sometimes it doesn;t happen properly & they don't make an exact copy of themselves. This is the mutation. Millions of the mutated bacteria are harmless but just 1 might be harmful to us - as in the casr of MRSA.

If it were your partner that caught MRSA & died from bad working practices that shouldn't have been allowed to continue - you wouldn't blame anyone?
Ignorance & bad working practices is why MRSA is so rampant. Cross contamination is rampant because the standards in many hospitals have slipped.
Can you imagine a matron from years ago allowing rooms to get into a filthy state as so many hospital rooms are? - not all I grant you.
You might not blame the ignorance of the nurses but I was totally horrified that ANY basic nursing auxilliary let alone infection control nurses could spout such utter garbage.

[lynne]

I can truly say Stuart, when people complain about the care they receive, 99 times out of 100 it is on the basis of "I don't want it to happen to anyone else".  Money is not an issue.

I would certainly feel the same.

[Twin Bee]

Lynne that may be the case but the are many examples where people complain because someone died - as if death is avoidable.  As a society all too soon we easily forget how skillful and courageous doctors, nurses, other medical staff including researchers are. For every procedure carried out, someone did it first. The courage that must take when doing say a heart transplant, or face transplant or trialling a new drug is beyond question. The insertion of stents into arteries to unblock them, which I am told is now the most common medical procedure performed in hospitals, was first tested by its inventor on himself. Of course mistakes are made but for me the question is what is the best way of learning from them. I am not convinced that naming, shaming, blaming staff is the best way forward. The other issue is that people sometimes expect paid carers/medics to care better for their family member than they themselves cared for them.  I have seen many examples of people feeling so guilty about this that their way of coping has been to blame the hospital staff for the persons condition when in truth they themselves contributed to it, or ignored it. The increase in the number of nurses and doctors attacked by their patients especially in accident and emergency centres might just reflect this blame culture.  
And just for the record I have issued my wife instructions that in the event of my death under no circumstances do I want anyone to sue anyone or seek retribution for its cause.  I want to believe that lessons will be learned regardless. Treating and caring for other people is hard enough. All I expect is that they do their best, in the circumstances they find themselves.

[sannyrut]

Hi Linda and Stuart.I empathise with Stuart's remarks,about assaults on medical staff.As a retired detective,I used to have to go to Glasgow Royal Infirmary,(anti violence patrol)viz attending GRI after violent incidents:(.Patients who had been stabbed,refused to co-operate with either hospital staff,and police. We had to hold them down to protect staff.Assaulted party usually refused to make a statement.Staff were always glad when we came.Linda,you are obviously a very talented lady,and would like to thank you for your comments.Lynne made a good comment(sorry,bad) about another strain a superbug.What is this one Linda?

[lindacarl]

Stuart. I think you have me totally wrong - the only reason I complained about the filthy floors & the urine was as Lynne said we didn't want it happening again. I also complained about the fact that Carl was left alone with no machine to monitor him - when he was supposed to be monitered closely as he was blacking out & stopping breathing. I ended up staying at the hospital sitting by his bed as I was so worried about him & although they thought I had gone NO-ONE came to the ward for over 2 hours even though one of the patients was constantly pushing the call bell & crying 'nurse'.

Previous to me staying there although supposed to be monitored constantly Carl got out of bed to help another patient, blacked out went down on the floor hitting his ribs on the table as he went therefore breaking 2 ribs & the table, he was on the floor apparently for quite a while & despite one of the other patients shouting & pushing the bell for help no-one came. Thankfully I was told by the other patient he came around after 20-30mins. Carl didn't know what had happened as he was still groggy so he got back into bed. The nurse was told when she finally came round what had happened to him but she chose to ignore what she was told & instead of looking at him to see if he was OK she chose to take the broken table away - when questioned afterwards by the sister to whom I had complained she denied doing this.

A different nurse was putting the wrong medication through the nebuliser which was exacerbating the problem Carl had. The medication in question had been withdrawn by the doctor but was administered to him whilst he was groggy & unable to stop her. It was only because I had some pharmaceutical knowledge & read his notes that I realised what was happening.

Thankfully Carl recovered despite the hospitals attempts for him not to. However he was in pain for months afterwards with the broken ribs - which were not diagnosed until later even though he had bruises the size of large dinner plates.

I did complain - LOUDLY! That doesn't mean I shouted - it means I made sure that I was taken seriously. But we didn't ask for any compensation or sue anyone. I didn't want what happened to him to ever happen again. I was totally horrified at the care received at the hospital, it was as bad, if not worse, than he would have received in a third world country.

I don't expect anyone to care for my nearest & dearest better than I would. I cared for my mother for quite a few years until she died & even though her death & long painful illness was from a prescribed drug interaction which she complained about - but no-one listened to her until far too late & the damage was done we didn't sue anyone. I wrote about it many times on various sites on the internet to stop the same thing happening to others. I made sure that I reached as many people as possible to try & stop the same thing happening to them.

I don't want to sue anyone BUT I DO want hospitals, doctors & nurses to exercise care & follow EXTREMELY NECESSARY HYGEINE REGULATIONS. A Hospital - because of the sick, wounded patients should be as clean as possible & staff should have good working practises to cut down any risk of cross contamination. If this isn't adhered to then you stand a much better risk of going into hospital & not coming out except in a body bag. So COMPLAIN & make sure someone listens - but don't sue.

[lindacarl]

Clostridium difficile, or C. difficile - the major causative agent of colitis (inflammation of the colon) and diarrhea that may occur following antibiotic intake. C. difficile infection represents one of the most common hospital infections around the world.  This bacterium is primarily acquired in hospitals and chronic care facilities following antibiotic therapy covering a wide variety of bacteria (broad-spectrum) and is the most frequent cause of outbreaks of diarrhea in hospitalized patients.

Again - using hand wash will cut down the risk of infection. Again this one because of excessive use of antibiotics in the past has got resistant.

Use Bee Propalis people instead of antibiotics - it's natural & works far better & quicker often with no nasty side effects.
Holland & Barrett do it 1000mg capsules x 100 costs around £10. 3 a day for 5-7 days as you would a normal antibiotic. If you're really suffering you can go up to 6 daily. I've given this to people who have had no joy with antibiotics & it usually clears everything up within 3 days - but take for at least 5.

Sannyrut - I'm not at all talented, I just have some experience of work in this field, microbiology is what I trained in. However it is the most boring experience you could imagine working in a microbiology lab so for the sake of my sanity (after I started talking to the one celled bacteria) after a couple of years I quickly transfered to the analytical labs of the pharmaceutical company.

[sannyrut]

I know what broken ribs feel like.Extremely painful,and inhibiting normal movements.I fell when coming down from a Scottish mountain,and broke two of my ribs.Also landed that hard on my butt,that I later developed problems with my spine.Linda,that is awful what Carl had to endure,his family too.I have recently been discharged from the Southern General,Instute of Neurological Science Ward,Glasgow,as result of disc damage.I can say that the ward was cleaned twice a day,floors,toilets,etc.The food,however,was awful,and I had to ask my wife to bring me in a sandwich.I think I was lucky.Alec.

[Twin Bee]

Linda - It is not my place to make a judgement as to whether you or anyone else complains to a hospital. That's your business but you did invite me to name and shame the hospital, though you did not quite put it like that!
The good thing about this forum is that people can post different view points. The reader will generally decide on the merit of what is posted. I have found you posts on this thread interesting and clearly knowledgable. They certainly have informed the discussion.
My take is different one. The NHS service has saved my life twice. Without doctors and nurses, researchers and scientist I would be dead by now. Actually I wouldn't have survived child birth, let alone a recent heart attack. Obviously I am grateful, but the experience has made me more philosphical too. We all have to die sometime. I don't want some hard working, under paid, over worked, devalued health care professional feeling bad because they were not able to prevent me dying or because they feel they made a mistake in the care they gave me. In all walks of life mistakes are made and hopefully most people will learn by them. I kind of accept that without making mistakes patient care cannot progress because that is how people learn.
I also feel that too often now people take on a victim role when things go wrong - things will go wrong; some are not preventable. We seem to sometimes want to blame everyone but ourselves and sometimes we expect others to provide solutions when there are none or we stop asking what we could have done to help.
One of the characeristic that appeals to me about Turkey is that there is more acceptance of, "what will be - will be". Others might tell me I wrong about this and I claim no expertise on Turkey but that is how it feels to me.
I agree hospitals should be clean. My first post attempted to reassure that Turkey hospitals and the Turkish culture are problably cleaner, with higher standards than British hospitals so no need to be over anxious that MRSA is more prevalent in Turkey than in The UK
Anyway I written enough about this.  I did not mean to cause you offence - if I did I am sorry.

[puma]

i will share a sad story with everyone my daughter-in law told me about a little old lady who was dieing and she did not want to die alone as she was scared she had no relatives so doreen sat with her way passed her shift time and held her hand till she passed away this is another view of the nhs of caring and dedicated staff who are facing cutback to a service that's full of bureaucrats and pen-pushers

[lindacarl]

quote:Originally posted by Stuart Barnes

The NHS service has saved my life twice. Without doctors and nurses, researchers and scientist I would be dead by now. Actually I wouldn't have survived child birth, let alone a recent heart attack.

Stuart
There was I thinking you were male
No offence taken.
I agree with you that there are some wonderful caring doctors & nurses around. Unfortunately when Carl was in we found the worse kind working at that particular hospital.

The ward sister was fine although totally over stressed by all the paperwork etc. that never used to be the main part of her vocation. She explained to me that many of the staff she had were 'bank staff' i.e. from agencies. She complained that the NHS was now relying more & more on bank staff whereas before they had their own staff who they knew well & knew what their shortcomings (if any) were. She said she didn't know from day to day who she'd get working in her wards.
She also explained that 'bank staff' cost twice as much to employ as normal staff as their rates of pay were higher & the agency also got a cut. The local health authority had also contracted out the cleaning to a cleaning firm.

It's like any big operation - too many pen pushers & not enough staff on the ground where they are actually needed. Toio many pen pushers also who have no idea of the havoc they are causing to the NHS.

Our health authority was the one who was paying one such pen pusher around 100K a year to stay at home as they hadn't considered her for a higher position & she wasn't expected to work under such ill treatment. Don't know if she's still drawing a salary but that situation went on for at least 2 years.[?][?]

Personally I wouldn't dream of going to that hospital again as an emergency admission unless I had absolutely no choice in the matter - it was an eye popping experience. We live midway between 2 hospitals - the one to the south of us is fine. I haven't named the hospital but we won't be taking a trip up to A......... no matter how catchy the tune is.