Author Topic: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?  (Read 5594 times)

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Offline Marggie

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90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« on: October 09, 2013, 06:38:01 AM »
It looks like this has been slipped in quietly!  I have read that at Bodrum and Istanbul Border Control, British travellers have been fined on their departure from Turkey.  This is because the period of stay in Turkey has been calculated back from the departure date i.e. they are operating a rolling 180 day period.  Very complicated I know.

This excerpt has been taken from the following link:

“In accordance with current Schengen rules, citizens of non-Schengen countries, regardless of their visa obligation status, may enter and remain within the Schengen Area without a residence permit for up to “90 days per 180-day period starting from the date of first entry.”
Starting on 18 October 2013, these rules will be changed so that stays within the Schengen Area without a residence permit will be possible for up to “90 days over any 180-day period.”
This change means that the 180-day period (i.e. reference period) will no longer correspond to 180 days following the date of first entry, but rather to the 180 days prior to the control date (border control upon entry into or departure from the Schengen Area, or police check within the Schengen Area). In other words, the duration of stay must not exceed at any time 90 days per 180-day period prior to the control date.
These new rules will not affect most travellers. However, they could have an impact in some situations (e.g. frequent stays in the Schengen Area). Stays that are permitted under the current rules may no longer be possible under the new rules.”

“In accordance with current Schengen rules, citizens of non-Schengen countries, regardless of their visa obligation status, may enter and remain within the Schengen Area without a residence permit for up to “90 days per 180-day period starting from the date of first entry.”
Starting on 18 October 2013, these rules will be changed so that stays within the Schengen Area without a residence permit will be possible for up to “90 days over any 180-day period.”
This change means that the 180-day period (i.e. reference period) will no longer correspond to 180 days following the date of first entry, but rather to the 180 days prior to the control date (border control upon entry into or departure from the Schengen Area, or police check within the Schengen Area). In other words, the duration of stay must not exceed at any time 90 days per 180-day period prior to the control date.
These new rules will not affect most travellers. However, they could have an impact in some situations (e.g. frequent stays in the Schengen Area). Stays that are permitted under the current rules may no longer be possible under the new rules.”

http://genevalunch.com/2013/08/14/new-schengen-entry-rules-adopted-by-switzerland-eunew-schengen-entry-rules-adopted-by-swiss-eu/

It is looking like Turkey, in common with other Schengen areas, is adopting the new rules.

Here is an example of someone who has fallen foul of the new ruling at Bodrum Airport:

To clarify our visas were issued on the 22nd of April 2013 but because the officer in question was counting back from our date of departure (4th Oct) he counted the time we had spent in Turkey from the 8th April (180 days back from 4th Oct). As we had been in Turkey from 4th April to the 18th April on an earlier visa which expired on 20th April he counted the 11 days from the 8th to the 18th as well as the 86 days on our present visa to give a total of 97 days even though it spanned two visas.

The couple were fined 218 lira each for their "overstay".



Offline DianaJ

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 08:00:38 AM »
Totally confused now ???y

Offline Marggie

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 09:07:38 AM »
Yes extremely confusing.  What is the point of having a Visa with a start and end date if these dates are to be ignored and they take into account visits on your previous Visa?

Surely if they are to operate a rolling 180 day ruling, they should just issue one open ended Visa stating the rolling 180 day rule! There would then be no need for further Visas or am I missing something?

Offline Karennina

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 12:39:19 PM »
Oh my I am totally confused by this, will have to read it a few times and take it all in (somehow!) just in case :(

Offline jim h

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 13:18:39 PM »
hi -- i am now getting very confused with all thesematters regarding  visa/residency . i am intending to go to turkey for 6 months from january next year and would be gratefull for any information on what i have to do now.
i was intending to come out on tourist visaand applying for residency while i was out there > is this still possible ? many thanks 

Offline Marggie

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 16:54:57 PM »
At the moment it is possible but apply in your first month of entry to Turkey.  Things are changing at the end of April 2014 but details have not been finalised yet.

Offline Karennina

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 18:30:05 PM »
Can anyone clarify whether the visa rules have been changed again please.I have just read on facebook on a Kalkan news page or paper that it appears to have change again or will be changing something to do with the departure dates now!! if someone can tell me on here whether I have to copy and paste just the title of the link or open the link and copy the whole article and then paste it, I will do so as it has completely confused me and would like some of the more knowledgeable members advice / opinions on this... thanks...

Offline Marggie

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 19:03:18 PM »
Karen it is as I posted at the beginning of this thread.

Here is the link from Kalkan News clarifying the rules.  The original 90/180 day Visa stated your 90 days began on the first day of entry to Turkey.  From 10 November, the 90/180 day Visa states the 90 days are calculated from your departure date and you can only have been in Turkey for 90 days during the previous 180 days.  What this means is that the start date and end date on your Visa is irrelevant. 

http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/component/content/article/67-residency-and-visas/319528-obtaining-a-visa-to-enter-turkey-as-a-visitor?directory=53

Here is an excerpt:


Firstly, let's recap on the way things were originally explained, when the new 90/180 day visa system was introduced, back in February 2012.
It was understood that a visa entitled you to stay for 90 days, within a period of 180 days, starting on the first day of entry.  The view was that once your visa expired, you could buy another one, and the clock would start ticking again.
The wording on the sticker itself explained things as follows: "MULTIPLE ENTRY VISA VALID FOR AN INTENDED STAY OF NO MORE THAN 90 DAYS PER PERIOD 180 DAYS. DURATION BEGINS ON THE DATE OF ENTRY TO TURKEY. HOLDER HAS NO RIGHT TO WORK".
So for example, in the graphic below, we show a traveller arriving in April for 30 days, and then returning in August and spending a further 60 days - leaving at the end of September.  The traveller has a one month break, before coming back to Turkey and buying a new visa in November, and staying for 60 days.
Visa graphic
The original view was that this was perfectly acceptable, even though the traveller has been in Turkey for 120 days between August and December.  The point being that this period was on more than one visa, and the clock was seen as being reset when the new visa was purchased.
Our understanding now is that this is not permitted, and in the above scenario, a penalty would be incurred.
The latest view
The key difference in interpretation is that the calculation on how many days you have spent in Turkey is made at your point of departure.  It does not matter if the previous 180 days are covered by one visa or two.
The main thing here is that at the point of departure you must not have been in Turkey for more than 90 out of the previous 180 days.  If you have exceeded 90 days, you will face a penalty.  See graphic below.
Visa graphic
The official wording
Earlier we gave you the wording on the visa sticker, but here is the official wording from the relevant law.  (Our thanks to Sozer Çizmeci at www.expatuci.com  for this).
The decision of Council of Ministers to implement the 90/180 days visa rule was taken on 10th October 2011.  They amended Article 3 of Law No. 5683 as follows:
“süre…vize muafiyet süresi veya vizede belirtilen kalış süresi yeterli ise yabancının Türkiye'den çıktığı gün itibarıyla önceki 180 gün zarfında 90 gün olarak uygulanır”.
The translation of the amendment is:
"duration is calculated, (if the visa exemption period or visa period is sufficient) as 90 days within the previous 180 days from their date of departure".
The emphasis here is on the words “from their date of departure”.

Offline Karennina

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 20:45:22 PM »
Thanks Marggie for that I am very confused and hubby is patiently trying to explain it to me and doing me a graph....I think it is all fine if you are just planning on  having two weeks or a month but if you are planning on long chunks of time in one hit it could pose a problem due to the "rolling days" they are now talking about... :(

Offline Marggie

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Re: 90/180 day Visa - a further twist?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 15:44:38 PM »
You are correct Karen and it is really sad, you can no longer stay April, May and June and come back  back for October & November.  Then of course, next April, even people who have residency can no longer have 3 or 5 years, they can only have one year at a  time.  We wait with baited breath to see what they will come up with.




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