Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Cars, Bikes, Scooters, MOTs, Speeding... => Topic started by: Ian on January 10, 2010, 10:35:12 AM
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Hi - read a couple of comments in another post that made me think it was worth raising this in a new post?
"there was a registration problem at the traffic police after Bayram. non residents could not be registered on the system. a new computer form could not be filled out. has any non resident bought a scooter on their passport since christmas?"
and
Hi,Its all changed again now if you want a scooter,car,or bike youve got to have residency now, my mate paid in full for a brand new car at the ford dealers but he could not register it in his name, but they never told him that when he was buying it and refused any refund,crafty move dont you think not telling him.
Interested if anyone has any experinces since January 1st 2010?
See: http://{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}31317&whichpage=4
Ian (disappointed now I can't buy a scooter in April!) [:(!] [:(!]
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Well, I've not tested the theory, but here's something to think about.
The new requirement is that to purchase a vehicle you must have a Foreigner ID Number. To get one you must have, or have had in the past, a Residence Permit. You can get a Residence Permit for as little as 1 month which will cost you £40 plus 10 TL for the translation office. (Although it's probably more sensible to get one for 3 or 6 months). So, you get a 1 month Residence Permit, which then entitles you to a Foreigner ID Number and then you buy your vehicle.
I don't currently have a Residence Permit but I DO have a valid Foreigner ID Number.
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KKOB - you are very ingenious - it would be good if someone could try it!
Many thanks - Ian
Ps Did you ever produce statistics for the Government in a previous life ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Ps Did you ever produce statistics for the Government in a previous life ;)
How do you think the UK got in this mess in the first place :D:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Did you ever produce statistics for the Government in a previous life ;)
No, I'm too clever for that ! :D ;):D
I've got a 1st Class (Hons) Degree in "Reading Between The Lines" ;)
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KKOB - I will now slightly change my plans (that always means my budget spreadsheet as well!!!) and come over in April and buy a 100cc Mondial - as after looking at the road tax calculator - there is none to pay for a 99.8cc bike!!!
Then I will obtain a "one-off" 6-month residency visa for £190.
I am not sure what the "translation office" fee of £10 is but please don't tell me I have to engage a translator - as everytime I hear of anyone doing this the fees go up each time - 200 / 300 / 350 YTL
Anyway if my assumptions ( and your theory are correct ) I will save 220 YTL on my scooter purchase plus approx 400 YTL road tax over 5-years which = 620 YTL - pay out 450 YTL for 6-month visa plus 50 YTL for translation office = 500 YTL gives me a net gain of 24 YTL per annum.
Ian :)
Ps A good mornings work - anyone know where I can get 2 x 12 YTL Sunday lunches with my savings 8)
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Where can this new rule be found or who should I contact to verify this as I am looking to buy a car & have no res permit.
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Not £10 for the translator ! 10 TL. Your final mission when you get back the Pasaport Polis after running around Fethiye is to take your application form across the road to a translator who then puts all the info on to his computer and prints the form out. (Apparently the forum won't be accepted at Mugla if it's hand-written.) You then take it back to the PP. Job done.
Don't forget that if this is your first application for a Residence Permit, you need to buy the blue/grey book for it. This year's price is 138 TL. You'll also need 6 passport size photos.
Do you know how and where you get the forms stamped, payments made etc ?
I hope you also realise that your passport has to go to Mugla with your application and it could take up to 6 weeks for it to be processed ? Although they are often turned round in 10 to 14 days you have to allow for Sod's Law.
quote:
Originally posted by kevin b
Where can this new rule be found or who should I contact to verify this as I am looking to buy a car & have no res permit.
Ask about it at any of the Main Dealers or at the Trafik Polis offices at Patlangic (opposite Kocatepe Nissan).
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KKOB - no idea - I think I might be ringing you (if I give you a ride on my new scooter from time to time!!!)
I will have to change my spreadsheet again now - 10 YTL firmed up for translator = 40 YTL saving.
Blue/Grey Book 138 YTL (not budgeted for - so I 'll have the cheapest colour blue or grey!!) now means my saving of 120 YTL over 5 years is eroded and I now have a net gain of only 22 YTL.
Please would you come with me for 22 YTL??? ;)
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I'll come with you for the price of a cuppa mate, so you'll show a profit of 21.50! :D
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Cheap date ...only 50 kurus...you could find yourself getting very busy Alan..:D ;)
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You'd be amazed at what I'm prepared to do for 2 cups of tea ! ;):D ;)
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only if it's "yorkshire" so I have heard.
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Ay lad !
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Damm only got Typhoo... 8) ;):D
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I bought a new scooter in October and have not yet been able to get my number plate. I was told there was "a police computer problem" but also heard that you now need residency to register a vehicle.
I should have residency in a week or so and hopefully I will then get the scooter sorted out.
One side of things Turkish that is grossly unfair is the fact that no rules are enforced for Turkish people driving overloaded, unsafe scooters but we are easy targets for unscrupulous authorities because of our foreign number plates! I presume that this would be corrected if Turkey were to join the EEC but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime!
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The problem is with the new computer form... the traffic police have asked ankara to re-write the program, so that might take a while me thinks..
mean while....... I have a new scooter with no miles on the clock.
Thanks to the brill KKOB..... a one month residency looks a good option.
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Just remember that I haven't tested the theory!
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Thinking about buying a scooter in someone elses name - someone who has residency - how do you sort out the insurance?
A few people have said that they did this a few years ago before the law changed to allow non-residents to buy without a visa but can you just insure yourself third party to drive any vehicle/scooter or is the insurance linked to the scooter/vehicle not the person??
I am only talking about a scooter not a car.
Ian
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For the compulsory traffic insurance, it's the vehicle that's insured.
But, you have to be careful if you're stopped when driving/riding a "Yabanci" vehicle if your name isn't on the ownership documents. According to the law, only the spouse and immediate family members, with the same surname, are legally entitled to ride/drive a vehicle registered to a Yabanci.
I seem to remember a discussion on a forum a couple of years ago about a married daughter of a Yabanci being fined for driving a vehicle registered to her father.
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It seems very wrong for the authorities to differentiate between Turkish & foreigner when it comes to vehicles.
I thought that the laws were meant to be reciprocal & I am not aware of the UK making Turkish people have "foreigner" plates.
While I am not anti Turk I would suggest that the average British citizen is a more careful & safer driver, partly due to our uniform driving laws & requirements. Partly to do with the different culture & temparement.
So it would be fairer all round & lessen admin costs to just have one type of number plate for everyone & the same requirements of law enforced on everyone, regardless of ethnic origin!
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It's also illegal for a turkish citizen to drive a vehicle with yabanci plates. I believe though that there are ways of getting around this, for example getting a notarised letter stating that the owner allows a named TC to drive their vehicle...all for a fee of course.
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Anything's possible for a "fee". ;)
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Hi,Just been reading about the insurance problem for people not having the same surname,the first car i purchased here was registered in my mates name because i was on a three month visa,so what i had to do for me to be legal when driving was take out a private car insurance in my mates name and be added as a named driver,or you can have a private policy for any driver but turkish people cannot be added to the policy only folks from europe,also now i have a car in my own name i still have a private insurance policy which covers everything from, hotel accomodation should i have an accident miles away,courtesy car if my cars being repaired,also covered for vandalism,fag burns etc,and i use my 60% no claims bonus which i had in uk so it makes the policy here cheaper.
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Woody - many thanks for your advice.
I would like to know what happens when someone goes to insure their vehicle (car/scooter/bike) with a Kimlik Number that is no longer "current".
I am happy to buy a residency for 1, 3 or 6 months to get a Kimlik Number but when I go back to Turkey in future years I don't want to buy one every year when I am only going for 6 months a year and have no intention of living there permanently.
I don't mind putting a little extra in the pot but not annually and especially as if I am right I would only be apply to have 3 residency periods - that means 3 years of paying for residency and my scooter is then surplus with circa 5000 miles on the clock [:(!]
Ian
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When I queried why Turkish people could not drive a yabanci plated car I was told that it was because the price of a new car was less to a foreigner as they did not pay all of the tax normally included in the selling price.Never having bought a new car its never arisen.
On insurance when I asked for our daughter to be added to the insurance I was told by the insurance agent that it was not necessary as it was the car that was insured and not the drivers and as long as she held a valid driving licence she was covered.
Have I been guilty of stopping when I received the answer I wanted to hear?
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On your vehicle docs there is a box (Z.2 DIGER BILGILER), If that box is not stamped (Araci Sahibi ve aile fertlerinden baskasi tarafindan kullanilamaz) and signed below, only the owner can drive the vehicle, translated it means, "only the owner and family can use the vehicle."
It used to be stamped automatically, now you have to ask when registering a new vehicle or re-registering a vehicle at the traffic police.
Also means that if not married partners cannot drive.
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Baz - my neighbour bought a scooter 6-months ago and had 2 names put on the ownership document - 2 with different surnames.
So here is a KKOB type theory - although I am guessing - and have never seen any of the paperwork - whilst he tends to work from a basis of facts!!!!
What is to stop you buying the scooter and having 2 names on the ownership documents and then if one of those names has a residency you could use that ID number to register the vehicle and again each year to insure the vehicle?
Ian
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Ian, your kimlik number stays on the system even after your residence expires. Once its on it stays on.
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Eric- that is the best news I have heard on this muddles mess!
So that should mean if I get a 3 month visa for £100( just to get the number ) - pay 150 YTL for someone to do the paperwork plus 100 YTL for courier/charges and finally 150 YTL for the blue/grey book then I will have my Kimlik for life because they have got all my details, a bit of my money and I am sorted.
I will settle for that - thank you 8)
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Eric,Is spot on once youve got the number your ok a friend of ours as just bought a car on the 9th jan, his residencey ran out in 2007 but hes had no probs registering his new car using his id number but he never showed them his blue folder he just wrote the number down on a piece of paper and gave the police that,well Ian looks like you walked into mine field with this debate but seems like its possible to dodge the blasts afterall,Happy Motoring mate.
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What I posted 4 days ago about Foreigner ID Numbers.
quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
To get one you must have, or have had in the past, a Residence Permit. You can get a Residence Permit for as little as 1 month which will cost you £40 plus 10 TL for the translation office. (Although it's probably more sensible to get one for 3 or 6 months). So, you get a 1 month Residence Permit, which then entitles you to a Foreigner ID Number and then you buy your vehicle.
I don't currently have a Residence Permit but I DO have a valid Foreigner ID Number.
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Seriously - thanks for all your help - it looks like my new crash helmets may get used after all !!!!!
I am still not sure if going for a one month visa is "pushing my luck" so I think I should go for the 3-month residency visa at £100 as a compromise and hopefully as you say have an ID number for life - or until they change the law again!!!!
Thanks again - Ian :D
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Kkob,This does work what you say about the id number my mates done it no probs at all,but he tried the same idea at the main telephone office on friday he wanted to change his phone and adsl from his turkish mates name into his own name, just using the id number he wrote it down so as not for them to see the actual blue book he had got which had run out,but theyve insisted he takes down the book so they can check that the residencey is still valid,as they will not accept just the number im wondering if all of a sudden theyve recognised a loophole,any ideas.
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You are not going to beat the system in Turkey, there may be loopholes, but these will invariably be closed when they are discovered and you will retrospectively pay the the price for trying to be devious.
It's OK buying a car just using your ID number, but after talking to my insurance company, they informed me that that no residency permit means no insurance cover.
Bite the bullet, pay your dues, and live with peace of mind.
Trying to save a few lira might cost you dearly in the future. 8)
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It would be more than just a few lira to ride a scooter for 4 months a year in my case so thank you for the advice and I will continue to use the dolmus and put off buying a vehicle until the law changes again ;)
I can make that decision as I haven't bought anything yet but I cannot believe that non residents who have vehicles that were bought under one legislative ruling are going to find out that they now cannot reinsure them - that would be grossly unfair.
Ian
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I live here In Calis & bought a scooter recently. Unfortunately, without warening the rules changed between the time of me ordering my new scooter & it being delivered.
It is now 6 weews since I applied for residency & I am still waiting for my passport to be returned.
I can therefore still not legally ride my new scooter!
Does anyone want to try & justify this system that is unfair, racist, & totally unorganised?
As I have said before, there should be no difference to the law & it's application because of being yabanci!
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Turkish people don't have to apply for residency.
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its there country....we are guests in there country...they make and change the laws....we accept there laws or we can leave...its our choice.
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
Turkish people don't have to apply for residency.
Obviously!
My points are:
Why are the rules & laws pertaining to having a scooter in Turkey applied very differently depending on ethnicity?
I did not get my scooter license by devious means! I have an INTERNATIONAL car & motorcycle license but can still not ride my scooter legally in Turkey.
Turkish people are allowed to ride scooters that are unroadworthy, overloaded, & carrying several people! Meanwhile yabanci riders, identified by their foreign plates, are fined for not wearing a helmet! Can anyone justify this?
I love Turkey but object to having to pay unfairly because of my nationality!
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quote:
Originally posted by brianthegardener
its there country....we are guests in there country...they make and change the laws....we accept there laws or we can leave...its our choice.
So maybe we should run the UK like this & stop supporting foreigners until we receive equal treatment from Turkey?
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Albaman - totally agree - it's when the law is blatantly unfair to disadvantage certain groups in the community or changed retrospectively that I have a problem.
Your final comment sums it up - as for us moving over permanently and putting a great deal more money into a larger property and spending more money in the community - it is becoming increasing less likely - so there you have it - the ultimate impact!
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I asked about using your id number for a telephone connection thats all i wanted to know but the subject changed,then Pasha pointed out that people who bought and insured a car when it was possible on a three month visa were legal then, but now its changed there insurance is invalid,very sorry but that is 100% incorrect my next door neighbour who retired here after being in the uk police force for 35yrs,had the front of her car well smashed but the insurance company sorted it out with no problems there are several people i know of who have had accidents had no problem with claims we all use a company called Allianze.
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quote:
Originally posted by woody54
I asked about using your id number for a telephone connection thats all i wanted to know but the subject changed,then Pasha pointed out that people who bought and insured a car when it was possible on a three month visa were legal then, but now its changed there insurance is invalid,very sorry but that is 100% incorrect my next door neighbour who retired here after being in the uk police force for 35yrs,had the front of her car well smashed but the insurance company sorted it out with no problems there are several people i know of who have had accidents had no problem with claims we all use a company called Allianze.
After making further enquiries, I have been told today that the new legislation came into force on Jan 1st, so anything previous to that was subject to different laws.
This is a minefield so tread carefully.
I too am against the high cost of residency etc. but as far as I am concerned it is better to be safe than sorry.
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Pasha - you are right it is a minefield but still not clear see this post I put on a couple of days ago when I enquired as to his charges for helping me get a 6-month visa:
http://{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}33351
This was an excerpt from an e-mail from Koray which actually said:
You state that "The law has now changed and I now need a Kimlik Number to register a scooter and insure it." However, it is not the Law what is changed, it is the registration software that the Traffic Registration Office uses. This new software registers a vehicle owner according to TR. ID number for Turkish citizens and Foreign national ID number for foreign citizens. The problem is, a Foreign national ID number is only given to residence permit owners and only after nearly 1 month from the issuance of the residence permit. Before a tax number for the foreign national was enough. I have had meetings with the registration office authorities in Fethiye, they say that this drawback will be regulated within January, as there are many foreign nationals without a RP who have met all the legal requirement to register a vehicle.
In conclusion, the system seems to be changing quite soon and you may not need a RP to register your prospective scooter and a tax ID may do the work. If not, I can give you more info in due course.
Still as clear as mud - but I tend to believe someone who is telling me to hold fire rather than take my money!!! :)
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Thanks Ian, this clears things a bit.
Basically now I can wait for either my residency application from 6 wks ago to come through & apply for my scooter registration or hope that the legislation & beurocracy concerning vehicle registration gets sorted?
I did detect that some other people's posts were defending this totally unacceptable situation.
Perhaps it is easy for them to take this view if they already have their registration from before this problem happened!
Cheers,
Dave
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quote:
Originally posted by albaman
Basically now I can wait for either my residency application from 6 wks ago to come through
Don't wait for the Pasaport Polis to phone you to tell you that your passport and RP are ready. They quote 5 to 6 weeks but it's very often completed and back at their offices ready for collection in as little as a couple of weeks.
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quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
quote:
Originally posted by albaman
Basically now I can wait for either my residency application from 6 wks ago to come through
Don't wait for the Pasaport Polis to phone you to tell you that your passport and RP are ready. They quote 5 to 6 weeks but it's very often completed and back at their offices ready for collection in as little as a couple of weeks.
Went there two days ago, still not here!
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quote:
Originally posted by albaman
Does anyone want to try & justify this system that is unfair, racist, & totally unorganised?
Whats racist about it? Turks have to use there citizenship number and show their ID card just as a foreigner must show this with a residence permit. There are NO different rules depending on if you are a Turk, jew or kurd.
As we say to people who dont like the system in the UK, there is always the airport.
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Getting back on topic......
I have been told that the computer program problem is now resolved.
My documents for my scooter will be ready to collect tomorrow.
Watch this space!!
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Barry - if you confirm that tomorrow - and I can now buy my scooter again and insure it - am I allowed to give you a big hug ???????
Ian (everything crossed) :-\
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quote:
Originally posted by starmanTM
quote:
Originally posted by albaman
Does anyone want to try & justify this system that is unfair, racist, & totally unorganised?
Whats racist about it? Turks have to use there citizenship number and show their ID card just as a foreigner must show this with a residence permit. There are NO different rules depending on if you are a Turk, jew or kurd.
As we say to people who dont like the system in the UK, there is always the airport.
Turks or any other foreigners driving UK registered cars in the UK are not required to have a reg plate that defines them as a foreigner. That is not the case in Turkey!
The laws may not be different but the application of them sometimes is. Why else would locals be able to ride scooters with perhaps 3 or 4 passengers, no helmets, carrying dangerously large cargo, no lights, no insurance, with impunity!
I accept that I am in a different country but I just want equal treatment & application of laws to ALL!
So, no need to avail myself of a flight out of Turkey, I love it here, I just want fair-play!
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Although I don't really want to go down this route - my view is that whether or not it is: Demolitions / Driving Regulations / Road Tax / Cement Works etc we should all expect to be treated fairly - which means the same as everyone else and not singled out for special treatment!
Leaving the country which we all love is unrealistic and unhelpful.
Ian
Ps I think we should wait for Barry to tell us he has his scooter and his legal paperwork and we can put this thread to bed!!!!
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Barry - the suspense is killing me - please tell me you have got your paperwork without any fuss / bribes / backhanders / taking out a 100 year visa etc etc ????
Ian :)
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Well........ After a wait, went to the traffic office... It was shut for the day..!!!
BUT... In an office opposite... There was the agent who acted for the shop..
With my log book and number plate..
Unlucky for me.. Service office was shut..
But I pick the bike up in the morning....... At last.
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Barry - please could you tell us tomorrow if you got your plates and were able to insure the scooter???
I am afraid one without the other is a "fail" [:(!] [:(!]
Ian
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quote:
Turks or any other foreigners driving UK registered cars in the UK are not required to have a reg plate that defines them as a foreigner. That is not the case in Turkey!
The laws may not be different but the application of them sometimes is. Why else would locals be able to ride scooters with perhaps 3 or 4 passengers, no helmets, carrying dangerously large cargo, no lights, no insurance, with impunity!
I accept that I am in a different country but I just want equal treatment & application of laws to ALL!
So, no need to avail myself of a flight out of Turkey, I love it here, I just want fair-play!
What you seems to be suggesting here is that no one Turkish ever gets stopped or fined for these offences. That is simply not true. I know many people who have been stopped and fined for this. I also know quite a few expats who have done the same and not been stopped.
With regards to foreign plates...sometimes it's a curse, sometimes it's a blessing. A lot of times those with foreign plates are waved through patrols because the authorities are doing checks on national service, or looking for someone in particular.
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Ok, thanks or your response. It is good to hear that there is a positive side to being identified as a foreigner on my reg plate.
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I also got pulled over at a patrol on the way to my parents house once, whilst driving my husband's turkish plated car. My son (who speaks fluent turkish...far better than mine) wound down the window and said " This is my dad's car...my mum is English and does not speak any Turkish" and we were promptly ushered on...so yes, IMO, sometimes our nationality allows us to get away with things (not that I was doing anything wrong by the way lol)
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So can anybody tell me ,i brought a car 2yrs ago ,we have ,insurance ,mot,tax ,but we do not residence ,but it wasn't a problem then ,are we legal to drive with our uk driving liciences now .
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Barry - the suspense is killing me - unforunately the delay makes me think you have a problem????
There again I need to be more optimistic - everything crossed!!! :)
Ian
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Sorry Ian.... All done and we are mobile again.
The scooters great and all legal.
I must say as a word of warning.. The owners of the Shop that sold me the scooter were less
than helpful.. I ended up doing all the running around myself to solve the problems.
Also they promised me 2 helmits and only gave me one.
So my advice as always (and this is the first and only time I didn't ) is don't pay all your money up front
and get everything confirmed in writing.
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Barry do you have residency ? Kim
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quote:
Originally posted by barry44544
I must say as a word of warning.. The owners of the Shop that sold me the scooter were less
than helpful..
Barry would you be happy to name the shop? Others can then avoid it if they don't like what you said.
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quote:
Others can then avoid it if they don't like what you said.
CBF Goobledegook:D ;)
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If you can't beat them...
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Barry - great news - thank you for confirming and Kim I am 99% certain Barry does not have residency.
It would be interesting to know if the computer programme has been changed as some said it would or if you had to talk nicely???
Anyway I can now "switch off" for the weekend!!!!
Thanks for much Barry - our man on the spot in Fethiye. :D :D
Ian :)
Ps I actually sent an e-mail to a helpline that I found for the Chief of Police last night in Antalya - in very broken Turkish and then realised after I had sent it that Fethiye was not in his province - needless to say I have not had a reply - never mind thats Antalya for you wouldn't have happened in Mugla !!!! ;)
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Now - I am getting worried about rekindling this thread BUT I have received an e-mail today from my insurance company who said: "I have phoned the police station today and you do need residency to buy a vehicle"
Now just to be clear - If I do I will - but it would be nice to know is this a requirement that is being imposed or (as possibly in Barry's case) does it depend on who you get behind the counter on the day you go in 8)
I just want "clarity" before I go chasing off to spend 1000 YTL to get a visa that I may not need or may need????
If it is a requirement then it would be good to know if those going to renew their insurance are having problems?
Ian (still confused) ;)
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Ian, as I have said before on other threads, it has always been a requirement to have residency to buy a vehicle, just never been enforced in the Mugla area until recently. Somewhere on one of the Government websites it is stated regarding residency, and I have been trying to find it again, as soon as I do, I will post a link.
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Baz - cheers - I know you are right and I have seen it on a government site as well - but how did Barry manage to do it without a visa last week - or was he just lucky?
And does that mean as was "aluded to" that those with vehicles and no visa are going to have a problem when going to renew their insurance?
Ian
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My residency, applied for 8 weeks ago has not arrived yet,I did, however, get my scooter registration documents last week.
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Dave - many thanks - this is what we are hearing from others.
Renewing insurance would be the "acid test" for me - as someone said you needed the ID number to do that but I still think there could be a difference of interpretation between a car and a motorsiklet :)
if you can renew your insurance (anyone out there???) with no problem it would convince me to buy the bike and risk it!
You may say I am "tight" (that is classed as a compliment where I come from) but I don't want to budget 3000 YTL to buy a scooter and then find I have to pay a further 1000 YTL + 450 YTL per annum thereafter for residency to keep it on the road - it becomes much less cost-effective.
Ultimately at the moment I think I may have to do what they said in the Clint Eastwood movie "do I feel lucky"
Ian :)
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Barry44544 i have almost new helmet you can have dont want anything for it ,just put a few tl in the Dogs home box ,email if interested its red one. ;)