Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: Colwyn on January 05, 2014, 17:58:26 PM
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The Prime Minister said today he would “triple lock” state pensions and then the leader of the opposition said the same. So, both main parties support the proposition that state pensioners should be protected from the “economic realities” with which most of the rest of the population have to cope. As a pensioner, I suppose I should say “Ta very much!” and pat myself on the back saying “I worked for it: I deserve it”. But I do wonder whether this special treatment for pensioners is fair – especially to people of my children’s generation. I haven’t made up my mind on this yet. Perhaps your comments will help me do so.
Earlier I listened to Frank Field, a man for whom I have tremendous respect, arguing that, whilst nobody would want to deny pensioner claims, there were many others in society who had deserving claims. Why should they be taxed more in order to pay for protection for pensioners whilst they themselves were unprotected? What about the disabled who find their benefits cut? Or those working families who have to rely on foodbanks? Shouldn’t we have a debate on this country’s priorities in this matter? This would lead me to the conclusion that we pensioners could not justify special treatment. But ...
I also think that we would never have got not only the pension benefits but also the NHS, Health & Safety at work protection, sickness pay, unfair dismissal legislation, maternity leave and a host of other things now taken for granted if my generation and the couple generations before had not fought for these things. Especially those involved in the Labour Movement – the Party but, more so, the Trade Unions. Nothing was given because it was “just” or “fair” but through struggle. And nothing was achieved by giving up the gains made “Because the country can’t afford it any more”. So when I’m told that I can have my pension increases but only at the cost of people in worse straits than me suffering more I want to point at executive double digit pay rises, bankers bonuses, Amazon’s tax dodging, HS2, Trident nukes, and even – trivial as it is – MPs 17% “fair” salary increase.
I am aware that in first part of what I have written I am being reflective; in the second I am soap-boxing. Which way should I go?
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You should carry on as you are.Reflection and soap-boxing in the same post are perfectly allowable when they are reasonable and fairly balanced :) 8)
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Did you consider: "thank you David - always had a soft spot for you old chap - you can count on my vote in 2015". :)
Ps that is what he is hoping for and you wouldn't want to disappoint him would you???
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The Prime Minister said today he would “triple lock” state pensions and then the leader of the opposition said the same. So, both main parties support the proposition that state pensioners should be protected from the “economic realities” with which most of the rest of the population have to cope. As a pensioner, I suppose I should say “Ta very much!” and pat myself on the back saying “I worked for it: I deserve it”. But I do wonder whether this special treatment for pensioners is fair – especially to people of my children’s generation. I haven’t made up my mind on this yet. Perhaps your comments will help me do so.
Earlier I listened to Frank Field, a man for whom I have tremendous respect, arguing that, whilst nobody would want to deny pensioner claims, there were many others in society who had deserving claims. Why should they be taxed more in order to pay for protection for pensioners whilst they themselves were unprotected? What about the disabled who find their benefits cut? Or those working families who have to rely on foodbanks? Shouldn’t we have a debate on this country’s priorities in this matter? This would lead me to the conclusion that we pensioners could not justify special treatment. But ...
I also think that we would never have got not only the pension benefits but also the NHS, Health & Safety at work protection, sickness pay, unfair dismissal legislation, maternity leave and a host of other things now taken for granted if my generation and the couple generations before had not fought for these things. Especially those involved in the Labour Movement – the Party but, more so, the Trade Unions. Nothing was given because it was “just” or “fair” but through struggle. And nothing was achieved by giving up the gains made “Because the country can’t afford it any more”. So when I’m told that I can have my pension increases but only at the cost of people in worse straits than me suffering more I want to point at executive double digit pay rises, bankers bonuses, Amazon’s tax dodging, HS2, Trident nukes, and even – trivial as it is – MPs 17% “fair” salary increase.
I am aware that in first part of what I have written I am being reflective; in the second I am soap-boxing. Which way should I go?
All very honest valid points & thoughts Colwyn :) It's the reasonable, modern man/woman's, dilemma............
If only our so-called 'better's' would, could, reflect along the same lines........... 'somewhere in the middle' instead of the 'extremes' that exist & rule
But, that's Not going to happen without a lot of adversity........ Money, greed, power & corruption rule the world we live in, more so now than ever before. I fear it will take another World War for the world to regain some semblance of humanity, humility, honesty & compassion :(
I hope I'm wrong, we all deserve better :(
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I liked listening to him too, yodelling away, I remember you. swiss maid etc. great songs. ;) :)
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Not really getting the knack of this "quote" thing. eh Des?
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;) ;) ;) Gotcha. :)
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Looks like the winter fuel payments for the 'better off' pensioners might go to help pay for it.
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A couple of years ago I posted about "militant pensioners" and warned politicians about messing with the generation of people, especially those of us who came to political awareness in the 1960s, that are the most likely to actually vote in elections. A few minutes ago I was listening to Frank Field again being interviewed about the special privileges promised to pensioners. He recalled that during one speech in the last General Election Dave Cameron announced that the Conservatives would have to consider removing free local bus passes. Polling then showed that Tory support amongst pensioners had dropped by 4%; on the same day Tory policy toward pensioners was changed and pensioner benefits were guaranteed. Field's conclusion? Cameron is scared to death of losing the pensioner vote.
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Ooooh! Power! :)
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Its all academic, when we in the Worsley Popular Front seize power everything will change, -------------------------when we get back from the Day centre :)
Seriously there are so many factors to Colwyn's original post and requires a lot of thought.
Personally, I have saved and done without so we could have a reasonable retirement but I have been fortunate
whereas many of my generation never had access to the big salaries of today until they had brought up their Children hence did not have so many years to save for their retirement and are more reliant on the state. ( How we managed on £5 a week as apprentices I will never know!)
We accepted a long slow time of getting to higher earnings from a lot of work, a lot of us did Military Service and are suffering health issues now from that, we "did our bit" for Britain. Overall we paid a much greater percentage of our incomes in taxes, had much bigger interest rates to buy our homes etc etc.in general we struggled so we have paid for our pension. and yes I think we do deserve it!
I see our people from 20-40's with respectively huge earnings in comparison, and a much better chance of saving and investing, but they are in huge amounts of Debt purely because they want it now and not prepared to wait until they have earned something before spending on it, they have no savings, and the future state of the Country as they age will be disastrous, glad I wont live to see it. -- so -- being totally selfish myself for a change -- I will have the money thank you while there is still some there!
Vote for "call me Dave" Don't know about that bit :)
Owareyathen Lad?
Terrorist leader
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Not long ago Ed Millaband asked a question of Dave and his front bench cronies, he asked if they were going to take the 5% tax cut on their millions (50% down to 45%) the row of multimillionaires on the front bench sat silent and Dave has ignored the question on several occasions
They don’t seem to have a moral dilemma why should you
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A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the pavement in front of her home.
Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.
Suddenly a line of big cars pulled up beside her.
Out of the lead car stepped a grinning man.
"Hi there little girl, I'm the leader of the Labour Party, Ed Miliband.
What do you have in the basket?" he asked.
"Kittens," little Suzy said.
"How old are they?" asked Miliband.
Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."
"And what kind of kittens are they?"
"Labour supporters," answered Suzy with a smile.
Miliband was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.
Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two of them agreed that he should return the next day;
and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.
So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the pavement with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from BBC, ITV, ABC, CNN and Sky News,
Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Miliband got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.
"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."
"Yes Sir," Suzy said. "They're U.K.I.P. supporters."
Taken by surprise, Ed stammered, "But...but...yesterday, you told me they were LABOUR SUPPORTERS."
Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open."
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90% are crooks regardless of Party!