Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Olu Deniz Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Scunner on March 11, 2010, 15:49:17 PM
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250m2 x 4m deep for two dolphins to spend their entire summer in. That means a
pool oops sorry dolphinarium possibly just 25 metres long by 10 metres wide.
Repulsive, I hope it fails and swiftly.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=-2010-03-11
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I cant believe they are opening this?! Surely this pool will not be big enough for 2 dolphins to live in for up to 6/7 months of the year!? I agree scunner, it is repulsive and i too hope it fails!
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Me too!!
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250m2 is incredible. As a comparison, the pools you see used for the swimming events at the Olympics are 1,250m2...and they hardly look huge.
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Cruelty at it,s worst,but sadly there are peop;e out there that love to visit such a place.Hopefully not to many! I certainly will not be visiting and neither will any of my friends or relatives.
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You can see from the photo how small it will be, its terrible isnt it! :(
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This council have no idea of what British people want.
Lets organise a picket line, get the TV down, write letters to the newspapers, emails to the Ministry of Tourism, get Greenpeace here.
WE HAVE GOT TO STOP THIS BARBARITY by any means.
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4 of the 11 dolphins in the Alanya Dolphinarium died in February. I hope this Dophinarium never happens in Olu Deniz.
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And isn't this being built on a playground area which the yabancis in the area raised money to buy equipment for about 8 years ago?
What has happened to this equipment??
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2 wild & free creatures will be forced to live for 7 months of the year in something
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2765590804_2a1ed092af.jpg?v=0)
A FIFTH the size of this!
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Diverbaz thats terrible, how can these people put the dolphins through this, makes me so mad!!!!
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Can someone a bit more computer literate than me start a facebook site "DON'T HOLIDAY IN OLU DENIZ UNTIL THEY DROP THE DOLPHINARIUM"
****, I am so angry about this.
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Or email the mayor of Hisaronu at www.yerelnet.org.tr / oludeniz telling him we do not want this attrocity.
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As you are making personal comments can you please add your name to your profile. If you do this your comments can stay.
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Done
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Thanks :)
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Cant we get up a petition?
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Am appauled at this news its terrible and i hope to god it fails i have posted my feelings in the comments section of the news item and would urge everybody else to do the same.
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It's sickening to think of these beautiful creatures imprisoned like this
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quote:
Originally posted by nuttybird
Diverbaz thats terrible, how can these people put the dolphins through this, makes me so mad!!!!
How can they put people through it is more to the point. For the doubtful pleasure of swimming with with a dolphin the charge will be £50 for just six minutes. Don't blame the Turks, blame the damn fools who think flying to Florida to swim with dolphins is a cure for all ills. This is western thinking to blame.
Manzarali
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Well I'm sure it will make money, sadly. The blame for it's success can indeed be placed on the 'Western' clients, the blame for making dolphins live in the equivalent of a hotel pool can not. It's once again something achieved with the minimum expense possible.
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I think I can safely say that nobody from Animal Aid will be supporting this venture and if we can do anything to stop it happening we will.
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S.O.D.S
Save our Dolphins ;)
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I thought Turkey was progressing on animal rights with the abolition of bear entertainment and other changes like their attitude to street dogs and all this good work is going to be flushed down the toilet.
This is total cruelty as these poor animals will not only be subject to the trauma of living in a goldfish bowl and all the circus that is going to take place plus all the noise of the area through the night.It is not going to be like Seaworld in Florida where the animals have very much bigger tanks and relative peace and quiet when the public disappear as the area is a little remote. I am not supporting Seaworld as I hate seeing animals caged up but at least the animals are properly looked after as they can be in captivity. God help those poor dolphins if they get sick I cannot see the owners paying for the necessary treatment.
The Mayor is bonkers if he thinks this is going to enhance tourism in the area.
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Feel disgusted beyond words. Anyone any ideas on what we can do do stop this inhumanity or is it all signed, sealed and delivered?
We had the thread of keeping animals in zoos to enable keeping the species going which I do agree with, animals in a circus no and dolphins in a small pool definitely NO!!
Anyone any ideas!!
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Stunned.
Bruce
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As you said Keith!
Bruce
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[:(!][:(!][:(!]
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woodzy54,Friends of our went to kas last year so there kids could swim with the dolphins,it ruined there holiday the kids were upset after seeing how the dolphins were kept,they said it was the first and last time,as you say animals like these should be left to swim the seas i noticed someone mentioned Florida having dolphins they do but but at least there in big pools,vets standing by 24/7 and well looked after the reaason being the yanks care about the dolphins,but im afraid here it will just be a money spinner and thats all what matters not the dolphins well being,lets hope it all goes tits up as far as opening the cruelty centre because thats all it will be for these animals,Woody
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This is being organised by the Company who have the Dolphinarium in Kas and the 2 dolphins are coming from Kas. As you say your children were so upset by how they were being kept there so it doesn't bear thinking about what it will be like here. I'm really upset by this and think it's disgusting that animals can be kept in this way.
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Cruel, Disgusting, it's so upsetting to see any animal in captivation even more so when it's for financial gain!![:(!]:(. Let's do a Free Willy. Lynn
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Can't belive that they think this will work, Dolphins should be in the sea where they belong not doing tricks for people who are stupid enough to pay.
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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=52035530946&ref=search&sid=1469028908.950027627..1
This is the facebook group for the dolphins at Kas...
Who are they trying to kid?
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http://www.wdcs.org/stop/captivity/story_details.php?select=451
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori___
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=52035530946&ref=search&sid=1469028908.950027627..1
This is the facebook group for the dolphins at Kas...
Who are they trying to kid?
Interesting to read their blurb:
"It does not surround dolphins with walls. Only a few therapy center in the world can allow dolphins to live in the sea water which is the convenient way for them to live"
So there will be no walls in Hisaronu dolphinarium?
Go to their Facebook page and click the "report group" bottom right- maybe facebook will remove it.
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this is Keramettin Yilmaz Facebook Group -
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=60918454483
There is a discussion page currently empty where you can start a topic and let him know how you feel...
or send him a message
or better still lets plaster his wall with comments - maybe if he gets enough messages he may rethink...
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Will it be Dolphin World sponsored by Nicholas Homes? I doubt Mr Mayor will want his building company associated with this venture!
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Great idea Nichola
Does anyone know if the mayor's company Nicholas Estates have anything to do with the build - I would wager that if there were a connection a lot of prospective buyers would not be amused.
Also how long will it be before this storey appears in Trip Advisor,,etc
I know the Daily Mirror sent a reporter under cover in Kas some time ago to report on the operation there. Not pleasant reading and would do this area harm if they picked the story up again.
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My family won't be going to that, who's putting up the cash russians? again. I would rather go see dolphins in the wild so to speak. not in a jail. Hi peter good luck with defeating this.
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I have just this minute emailed the daily mirror and given the link to the news article so will keep all posted. Am hoping they will reply.
This has made my blood boil!
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The truth is that people who want to swim with dolphins (strange bunch but there seem to be plenty) probably won't know that they are held captive in a swimming pool up a mountain till they actually get there. I doubt refunds will be an option either. The promotional literature will be interesting too. Will it show this paddling pool? More probable is a close up of a dolphin, or who knows, maybe even a big dolphinarium from the other side of the World.
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Should have added maybe if we all emailed the daily mirror they may look into it?
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Worth a try
investigate@mirror.co.uk (http://"mailto:investigate@mirror.co.uk")
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I don,t see a problem of swimming with Dolphins,as long as they are in their natural enviroment and they are free to swim to you,that I would say would be an experience of a lifetime.Hopefully anyone with friends and family coming here will encourage them not to go to this god forsaken place.
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Thankyou scunner i have also emailed all the people i know to also post a comment on the news article.
Not sure what else we can do?
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
The truth is that people who want to swim with dolphins (strange bunch but there seem to be plenty) probably won't know that they are held captive in a swimming pool up a mountain till they actually get there. I doubt refunds will be an option either. The promotional literature will be interesting too. Will it show this paddling pool? More probable is a close up of a dolphin, or who knows, maybe even a big dolphinarium from the other side of the World.
Boycott all travel agents, bars etc that promote this place.
Ask Thomas Cook and others to get their reps on their welcome brief to advise clients to avoid this place (Tui have withdrawn Kas dolphinarium from their list)
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I would agree with all of the above but, in the meantime, is there no 'official' department that can be complain to? Making it known in UK papers is great but will it have the desired affect on holidaymakers? The welfare of the dolphins is paramount, can't it be stopped before they get here? And how/why were they captured to begin with!
This sickens me.
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I have posted a new discussion on Keramettin Yilmaz's board signed the WWF, reported the article to Facebook, couldn't e mail the Mirror for some reason.
Anything else I can do?
[:(!]:-\[:(!]
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Someone has started the discussion on facebook, I added a comment, link below for anyone else who would also like to appeal to the Mayor.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=12976&post=59320&uid=60918454483#post59320
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That was me - totally disgusted!
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Sorry cheers, I posted my reply before reading yours.
Cheers, not someone started the discussion on facebook.
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Sorry Harmless should have read post properly. I started the discussion on the mayors discussion board. Sorry again!!
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I am still trying to post something on the discussion on Facebook, being a puter dummy cant seem to do it, anyway, I back all the protests about the Dolphin 'pond' having driven past the site today, I am disgusted...
In 2006, I took my then 14 year old son to swim with the Dolphins in Kas. As we live here and I work all summer, it was supposed to be his summer treat. We both came away saddened by the conditions they were kept in there, the Dolphins were in a cramped area and this was a lot bigger than anything they can put in Hisaronu, and at least it was in the SEA!! I seriously hope something can be done about this and if anyone needs a signature on a petition or a marcher, please contact me...
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Finally worked it out on Facebook... lets hope he reads it ;)
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For those on Facebook - a protest group has been started which you can join:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=358308272654&ref=nf
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this has to be stopped, but i do wonder how, i cannot imagine protests by expats will carry any wieght, Financial gain is the only reason for this kind of venture, as these dolphins are already in captivity it would be hard to let them go free, as they maybe cant fend for themselves. This protest must be made international to have any impact, then maybe advice can be given on the best way to help these poor creatures, before they are moved to their new so called home. Does anyone know of any influencial turkish officials who can help. or an organisation willing to assist. I think google might be busy in my house tonight.
maria
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If anyone has the telephone number of Meryem Tekin,she is a marine biologist here in Fethiye,maybe she could suggest something.We have to get this awful thing stopped.We have to be the voices for these beautiful but abused creatures.
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I have emailed the wspa uk and usa [world society for the protection of animals] www.wspa.org.uk
and forwarded the news item and again am awaiting their reply.
Have had no respons as yet from the daily Mirror, not sure what else to do to be honest.
Have also asked my sons to spread the word on face book as am a novice with it.
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have copied the link to the wspa website http://www.wspa-usa.org/pages/309_cruelty_free_dolphin_activities.cfm
they activly encourage people to get in touch if they come accross any issues. As i mentioned i have already emailed them but the more who do the better.
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Have been talking Ronight with some hotel owner in Hisaronu and there is a group already in contact with WWF concerning this hopefully should start something positive to stop This stupidity
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The FTO (Federation of Tour Operators) who are overall responsible for anything overseas for UK customers are already involved. They are aware of this and I know are doing everything they can to stop this. Obviously not a quick process though so fingers crossed they can stop this before it's up and running.
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I've joined the Facebook group and have added my comments - I really find it shocking that an area which is famous for its nature reserve should even consider doing something so against these principles. Hope that they reconsider when they see that this is not what people want to see and will perhaps repel tourists rather than attract them. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Bridge xx
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links of the Hurriyet Article and the Facebook Group sent to this organisation - they have an office in the UK.
Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society, is the world's most active charity (Registered No. 1014705) dedicated to the conservation and welfare of all whales, dolphins and porpoises
http://www.wdcs.org/about.php
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Have also joined the facebook page and commented. Lets hope the powers that be realise this is one idea that will not be accepted by the tourists and the ex pats that live in the area.
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Lets bombard the Mayor!!
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/news/44-news/6087-new-dolphinarium-attraction-to-open-in-hisaronu-but-opinions-are-divided.html
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quote:
Originally posted by karaokemark
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/news/44-news/6087-new-dolphinarium-attraction-to-open-in-hisaronu-but-opinions-are-divided.html
What a pity FT do not have a comments section. I, for one, do not see much "divided opinion", seems everyone is totally against.
Only few in favour seem to be those with a vested interest - ie some of the travel agents.
Nice to see the comments by Andrew Lee of Exclusive Escapes who is not in favour.
Not so nice to see the comments by Jane Ashton head of sustainable development (Who dreams these Mickey Mouse titles up anyway) at TUI Travel Plc who seems to put profit before ethics.
What if they start dog, bear and cock fighting, Jane, will Tui still sell tickets to their clients?
Maybe a campaign to Tui telling them that dolphin are not sustainable in captivity may help.
If I was in the tourist industry in this area, I would be appalled and frightened by the comments made by Salih Taşci, head of the Fethiye branch of the Turkish Association of Travel agencies, TURSAB. He obviously has no idea of how the British (or most of them) think.
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If this horror goes ahead I hope everyone will vote with there feet and not go along. I hate to see these shows. Dolphins belong in the sea not swimming pools, just like birds should be in the trees and not in cages.
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People on holiday will still go to see them, will more than likely just be the once after they see the tiny pool but by then they will have their money
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If this does go ahead I think all of us who spend time in the area need to warn as many tourists as possible of the dreadful conditions and hopefully then they won't go
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Now got on to Holiday Truths site. http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=143628
This could now seriously put tourists off as it calls for a boycott of Hisaronu
Wonder if the local hoteliers, bar and shop owners know that this is what their mayor is doing?
And even bigger on
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g312737-i9292-k3468620-I_hope_this_never_happens-Oludeniz_Mugla_Province_Turkish_Aegean_Coast.html
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I am totally against having these dolphins in a pool in the middle of Hisaronu. I am also seriously concerned about the actions that have also been taken to prevent it. I do not think trying to get holiday makers to boycott the area is the answer. Please also think of the impact on the local economy and the people who rely on tourism.A couple of hotel owners I have spoken to are equally horrified by the proposal.
I think that the Mayor should be given the opportunity to reverse this decision and if he does not then do anything that is lawful to influence him.
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I do agree in principal by the comment that Ovacikpeedoff made re the economy and tourism. This dolphiniarium is to be open for this years tourist season. The work has already been started amd see little point in waiting for the Mayor to reverse this decision, by then it will be too late. Money has already been spent so the company would be looking for compensation for the money they have already put into this enterprise. This should have been brought to everyones attention when the plans were submitted, then we may have had a chance to stop it before it even started.
I personally have signed up for every forum that has been posted on this thread as have many others. Feelings are high on this even though the FT says its about half and half for and against. DON'T THINK SO!!
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619 656 people have now signed up to the facebook page
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quote:
Originally posted by cheers
the FT says its about half and half for and against. DON'T THINK SO!!
In fairness I don't believe they did say that.
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In fairness it actually says (Don't know how to do quotes sorry)
Opinions are clearly divided on whether the latest tourist attraction is good for the dolphins but unless there is a change to the laws it will be market forces, the numbers of people prepared to pay, that finally decide if the dolphinarium sinks or swims.
Doesn't clearly divided mean half and half?
Doesn't that little sentence say it all?
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No & no :)
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This is on the WSPA web site about what happens to dolphins in captivity
What is the required amount of space for a captive dolphin to be happy? How big are the tanks that they live in when they are not doing shows?
The answer to this question is simple - any tank or enclosure is too small for a dolphin. According to U.S. regulations, dolphin pens only need to be 30 x 30 feet and only six feet deep. With the current U.S. standards, a dolphin would have to circle more than 1.700 times its pen to simulate its natural swimming everyday range in the wild! In warm weather such shallow water Heats quickly. This can be extremely uncomfortable, and often deadly, for dolphins unable to escape to deeper, cooler waters. Not only is there no relief from the heat, but also the dolphin's sensitive skin can be exposed to the sun's Scorching rays, causing blisters and sores. Also, in cement pools, chlorine is added to keep bacteria levels safe for humans. The levels of chlorine used, wreak havoc on a dolphin's skin and eyes, sometimes even rendering them completely blind.
Just because standards exist, does not mean that they're appropriate, well enforced, or they ensure an acceptable quality of life for the dolphins. No facility can not adequately simulate the vast ocean or provide for a dolphin's needs. No captive program - no matter how large, well regulated, well funded, or well intentioned - can make a case for meeting a dolphin's complex behavioral needs and no standard set by a government can be called sufficient.
and this is their website with more info
http://www.wspa-usa.org/pages/2220_dolphins_in_captivity_faqs.cfm#space
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his quote from the paper is the bit I can;t get my head round
"Hisarönü is some kilometers from the sea, so "our first priority is to transport sea water straight from Ölüdeniz. If we do not get the go ahead for this, we will look at mixing natural salt brought from the sea with fresh water,"
That and the fact it will only be four metres deep.
From WSPA website
"This can be extremely uncomfortable, and often deadly, for dolphins unable to escape to deeper, cooler waters"
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It is quite obvious when you have it spelt out for you that the chlorine needed to allow humans to enter the water will be extremely harmful to dolphins, as is living in a concrete tank up a mountain, as is adding salt to water. The whole scheme is half baked, amateur and freakish.
If dolphins ever end up in that pit, I shall turn CBF from it's vibrant blue and orange to black and white, to represent the 50 years backwards tourism in Turkey stepped with this idiotic project. Maybe they could really push the boat out and have visitors greeted by a bear chained to a post; we could all prod it with a stick.
Trust me, there is only one way to win the majority of battles against injustice in Turkey, and that is to hit those involved in their pocket. It's their most sensitive part.
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100 percent agree with that Keith!! Although I have posted my thoughts to whoever, posted my thoughts on all the different forums, told all my friends etc. Anyone any ideas as to how to hit those in involved in their pockets? I will be front of the queue if anyone can tell me how!
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I will be behind you Cheers. The feeling of helplessness is what is keeping this thread going. All we can do is raise awareness and if that stops some people from going we have achieved something.
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quote:
Originally posted by cheers
100 percent agree with that Keith!! Although I have posted my thoughts to whoever, posted my thoughts on all the different forums, told all my friends etc. Anyone any ideas as to how to hit those in involved in their pockets? I will be front of the queue if anyone can tell me how!
Have just read elsewhere that the people who advise to Turkish Ministry of Tourism on strategy and publicity in the UK are at
info@redmintcomms.co.uk
Directors are Ceyda Sara Pekenc and Hulya Soylu who am sure would be delighted to know of the damage to their work caused by Mr Y.
Shall we all email these 2 ladies??
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I think we may need to do something in the way of a formal protest at the council offices or the site. How many would be willing to turn up in person and join a peaceful protest? Maybe we could get some TV cameras there as well as land of lights?
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Umpy, someone has suggested this on the facebook page. Would it be better to co-ordinate it from ther e? There are now 857 members and a lot of them must stay there. I am not in Turkey so am only able to protest from my armchair.
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I am out on the 15th April for 2 weeks so would be willing to assist if a protest was organised?
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Have just emailed them and forwarded both links to the news article and the facebook page,so will see if i receive a reply?
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Ditto skipking!!
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I emailed the WWF and they have suggested we contact the following groups:-
http://www.wspa.org.au World Society for the Protection of animals
http://www.bornfree.org.uk/index.shtml UK organisation
They also said this
> You could also contact your local WWF office, or the WWF-Turkey office, as they may be able to provide more information about other local organizations who may be able to help. Their contact details (along with website URLs) of all our offices around the world are available at:
> http://www.panda.org/about_wwf/who_we_are/offices/offices.cfm
>
I looked at the website for Turkey but it is in Turkish as far as I could see.
Worth a try
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Do you think the mayor would have a change of mind if he read the article "What happens to dolphins in captivity" on the WSPA website. I don't think so.
This land was a childrens park which has been taken away and to be replaced by this! How could anyone who thought about the people do this?
By the way do you think his company Nicholas Homes would be building this monstrosity? Is this how the plans were passed?
If so everyone should BUOYCOTT NICHOLAS HOMES!!! The only way to make him sit up is if this happens!!
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No need to feel powerless
If you think this is impossible remember that just one year ago America elected an intelligent young Black man as their President.
Anything, but anything is possible!
There is only one way to stop this project and that as has already been said is to stop the money. We need to ‘persuade' the local govt to cancel this project and convince the company responsible that British Tourists are 100% against the Dolphinarium and will not go to or use it.
We can do any or all of the following; include facts where possible. Lots of info on the Facebook group.
1. See below for letter suggestion and contact details of local government officials:
2. Email the company responsible for this project and tell them you will not use or go to the Dolphinarium.
ibrahim Dilek personal assistant to Alesandr Kuznetsov general manager of Dolphintherapy Kas
dolphinparkkas@yahoo.com
3. Email your tour operator and the FTO (Federation of Tour Operators) and tell them you will boycott the Dolphinarium if it goes ahead and that you will not book local trips/tours through them if they have this on their books.
FTO Tel: 020-3117-0590 - Fax: 020-3117-0581 - Email: info@fto.co.uk
4. Email the advisers to the Turkish Ministry of Tourism on strategy and publicity in the UK
Directors Ceyda Sara Pekenc and Hulya Soylu
info@redmintcomms.co.uk
5. Email or phone Travel/Environmental journalists on your local and national UK paper. Coverage in the UK will draw attention to this at the highest level of Turkish government. Local papers are always looking for stories and many local stories can become national stories.
Tell them about this project and opposition to it (Facebook opposition group1000 + (soon will be) members in 3 days), give them some the facts like the ones listed in the letter below, remind them that in the UK there are NO such projects (something of which we can be proud) and that you believe whatever:. affect on tourism to Turkey etc etc.
6. If you know any national journalists use them or their contacts to get a story published.
7. Email the www.wdcs.org at info@wdcs.org and urge them to get involved - take on a coordinating role.
8. Encourage everyone you know to do the same and join the Facebook group
A letter you can send/adapt to Kerramettin/the Governor and MPs for the area. See emails/fax numbers below
Dear Kerramettin/ Dr. Ahmet Altiparmak (delete as appropriate)
I am against the development of a Dolphinarium in Hisaronu and ask you to cancel this project as a matter of urgency. This project is damaging the reputation of Oludeniz well know as a conservation area of natural beauty and will affect the numbers of tourists coming to this part of Turkey.
The reaction by British people is 100% against this project to keep dolphins in a small pool as a holiday attraction. These opinions are expressed very forcibly on a number of international Internet Forums including Trip Advisor and Facebook. Many people are actively calling for a boycott of Hisaronu and Oludeniz as a holiday destination.
This will affect the many small businesses in the area that rely on tourism for their livelihoods and also have a long lasting negative affect on the local economy.
As someone who lives here/a tourist I will not use the Dolphinarium and I will tell other people to do the same. I will also tell them:
53% of those dolphins who survive the violent capture die within 90 days
The average life span of a dolphin in the wild is 45 years; yet half of all captured dolphins die within their first two years of captivity. The survivors last an average of only 5 years in captivity.
Every seven years, half of all dolphins in captivity die from capture shock, pneumonia, intestinal disease, ulcers, chlorine poisoning, and other stress-related illnesses. To the captive dolphin industry, these facts are accepted as routine operating expenses.
Source Dolphin Project Europe Captivity Fact Sheet http://www.idw.org/html/dolphins_in_danger.html
I urge you to consider the reputation of this beautiful area as a famous and popular tourist destination and the impact this will have on local businesses and economy and stop this Dolphinarium project.
Yours sincerely
The e mail address for Olu Deniz Beldiye Başkan, Kerramettin Yilmaz, is
baskan@oludeniz.bel.tr
Fax-0090 616 6387
Olu Deniz and Hisarönü come under the province of Mugla so here is the e mail address and details for the Mugla Vali (Province Governor) who is called Dr.Ahmet Altiparmak
mugla@icisleri.gov.tr
Fax-0090 252 214 3188
These are all the members of parliament for the area
ali.arslan@tbmm.gov.tr
gurolergin@tbmm.gov.tr
yuksel.ozden@tbmm.gov..tr
fevzi.topuz@bmm.gov.tr
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What a thoroughly sensible and clever post from you Nichola. Surely the way forward,and I for one appreciate the effort that you have made on this vexed subject.
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thanks - power to the people as someone famous once said made so much easier with the internet; a little by each of us collectively can add up to a potentially powerful campaign where ever in the world we are... :)
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Free the Olu Deniz Dolphins - should reach over 1000 members on Facebook within the next hour or two - not bad for JUST 3days!!!!!!
Shows the strength of feeling this Hole of Shame has caused.
If you haven't joined go to http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profileid=549036018#!/group.php?gid=358308272654&ref=mf
Don't forget the mayors Facebook site:http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profileid=549036018#!/group.php?gid=60918454483&ref=mf
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Only 12 more people needed to reach the 1000
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:D Now 1005
I noticed that this had ben posted on the mayors face book
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=international-tour-operator-cancels-dolphinarium-trips-to-turkey-2010-02-25, are there any
german forums that can be made aware, I'm sure they would support
making it more of an international condemnation
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Lets cut thr C**P!!
The mayor who has passed these plans took away a childrens playground!
He is supposed to look after the people!
He has been convicted of dodgy dealing and sentenced to 15 years in jail!
He owns a construction company "Nicholas"
Is his company building the "POND" how much money will he make?
The main company is "NICHOLAS HOMES"
The only way we can get this decision overturned is to get everyone to buoycott NICHOLAS HOMES new sales and hit him where it hurts!
If they have got no money coming coming in they cannot fund this project!
BUOYCOTT NICHOLAS HOMES - IF YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO IS THINKING ABOUT BUYING A PROPERTY FROM THEM TELL THEM NO!!
There aftersales is rubbish and they will regret having bought!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm sorry Linda but I think it is unhelpful to attack Kerramettin or Nicholas Homes (which this is not about) personally.
There are lots of positive and constructive things people can do to stop this.
Creating awareness and raising the issue backed with facts and well informed arguements with people that have the power to influence and stop this will be far more productive.
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Sorry Nichola I totally disagree 100 percent with your post!!!!!!!
The mayor Mr Y has alredy been sentenced to 15 years imprisonment on corruption charges, then reduced to house arrest on appeal. His court case is coming up where he could or could not spend time in prison.
Meanwhile a childrens playground has been replaced by this barbaric, inhumane monstrosity!
I am asking questions now if you want to anwser them you are quite welcome!
1. Why did he pass the plans knowing there would be this hue and outcry?
2. What is he going to get out of it - he has already been convicted for corruption!
3. What company does he own that could benefit from this?
4. Is he the owner of Ncholas Homes who is well known for just selling apartments/villas etc. with no after service
5. Does he have any links with the company who is building this "POND"?
If anyone who is really concerned not just playing lipservice on Oh how terrible! Its inhumane !
If you want to get involved you will have to get in the pig**** with the mayor. Oh sorry we aren't allowed to do that except on the Mayors say so! I'm already there on Turkey Tourism, Facebook, TUI, Thomsons, Thomas Cook and any other weiste I could find!
AT THE END OF THE DAY HE OWNS NICHOLAS HOMES, ONLY WAY TO GET THIS STOPPED IS TO HIT HIM WHERE IT HURTS!!!!
TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO IS THINKING ABOUT BUYING A NICHOLAS HOME THE FACTS BUT MOST OF ALL TELL THEM ABOUT THEIR AFTERSERVICE!!!!
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Cheers, at the end of the day he does not legally own Nicholas Homes. He is not even a director of the company. You are making assumptions that he knew that there would be outcry over this project and that he is getting some type of backhander from this. It may be just possible that he thought it was a way to increase tourism in the area. Times are hard here and have been for a few years. It is not long ago that people were saying on this forum what a great mayor he is and that he has done a great deal for the area.
If you were to make the accusations that you have made above in the UK you could easily face a libel charge.
Boycotting Nicholas Homes is not going to have a major impact because of the economic conditions there is very little property being built by the company.
This is probably the most divisive issue that has come up in the past few years and could but local and expat relationships under severe strain. persuading the local population and getting them on side is a much more effective weapon.
I do not like what is being done and it makes my blood boil. In the past when it came to cruelty to animals I took part in demos outside the Canadian High Commission against the cruel method of killing seal pups.
Nichola is right that the debate and actions to be taken should focus on the dolphins.
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Dear Linda
really, who and when would anyone even notice if someone opted not to buy a Nicholas Home!
Concrete suggestions focusing on the issue of the Dolphins and what we can all do have been made by myself and others on this topic.
You seem to have a lot of energy - why waste it shouting about Kerramettin :)
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Linda
Really feel that your posts are turning into rants now, both here and on other sites.
Technically, Keramettin currently has nothing to do with Nicholas and, as far as we know and until proved otherwise, Nicholas has nothing to do with "The Hole of Shame"
Your personal vendetta against Nicholas Homes is detracting from the main dolphin issue.
If you feel so strongly, can I suggest that you set up your own anti Nicholas Homes Facebook page.
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Sorry everyone if I have gone off topic on this one!
But I am so angry on this issue!!
I have joined every discussion board on this, I have e mailed to every link that has been provided on this forum! Opened a discussion page on the Mayors discussion board, just about anything I could think of!
I do understand the economies of Turkey for anyone who has moved there but for me personally money doesn't come into this.
Unfortunately I am not in Turkey at the moment - If I were I would be by the POND with my placard!
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Just glad you're on our side Linda - wouldn't like to be the opposition!!!!!!!
Keep spreading the word about this Hole of Shame
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The immediate concern must obviously be the welfare of the animals, but I also fear that long term, this venture may result in the name Hisaronu becoming like Chernobyl, Saddleworth Moor or Hiroshima - a place name that became famous, but for being synonymous with something entirely horrific.
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Totally agree with your comment Scunner!!
I am doing my best with the options available to me!
No stone should be left unturned over this one and it must be a consolidated effort all around!!
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Totally agree Scunner.
Without being personal, I fear thet Keramettin is to Hisaronu what Gerald Ratner was to Jewelery shops.
Or was that personal?
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quote:
Originally posted by nichola
No need to feel powerless
If you think this is impossible remember that just one year ago America elected an intelligent young Black man as their President.
Anything, but anything is possible!
There is only one way to stop this project and that as has already been said is to stop the money. We need to ‘persuade' the local govt to cancel this project and convince the company responsible that British Tourists are 100% against the Dolphinarium and will not go to or use it.
We can do any or all of the following; include facts where possible. Lots of info on the Facebook group.
1. See below for letter suggestion and contact details of local government officials:
2. Email the company responsible for this project and tell them you will not use or go to the Dolphinarium.
ibrahim Dilek personal assistant to Alesandr Kuznetsov general manager of Dolphintherapy Kas
dolphinparkkas@yahoo.com
3. Email your tour operator and the FTO (Federation of Tour Operators) and tell them you will boycott the Dolphinarium if it goes ahead and that you will not book local trips/tours through them if they have this on their books.
FTO Tel: 020-3117-0590 - Fax: 020-3117-0581 - Email: info@fto.co.uk
4. Email the advisers to the Turkish Ministry of Tourism on strategy and publicity in the UK
Directors Ceyda Sara Pekenc and Hulya Soylu
info@redmintcomms.co.uk
5. Email or phone Travel/Environmental journalists on your local and national UK paper. Coverage in the UK will draw attention to this at the highest level of Turkish government. Local papers are always looking for stories and many local stories can become national stories.
Tell them about this project and opposition to it (Facebook opposition group1000 + (soon will be) members in 3 days), give them some the facts like the ones listed in the letter below, remind them that in the UK there are NO such projects (something of which we can be proud) and that you believe whatever:. affect on tourism to Turkey etc etc.
6. If you know any national journalists use them or their contacts to get a story published.
7. Email the www.wdcs.org at info@wdcs.org and urge them to get involved - take on a coordinating role.
8. Encourage everyone you know to do the same and join the Facebook group
A letter you can send/adapt to Kerramettin/the Governor and MPs for the area. See emails/fax numbers below
Dear Kerramettin/ Dr. Ahmet Altiparmak (delete as appropriate)
I am against the development of a Dolphinarium in Hisaronu and ask you to cancel this project as a matter of urgency. This project is damaging the reputation of Oludeniz well know as a conservation area of natural beauty and will affect the numbers of tourists coming to this part of Turkey.
The reaction by British people is 100% against this project to keep dolphins in a small pool as a holiday attraction. These opinions are expressed very forcibly on a number of international Internet Forums including Trip Advisor and Facebook. Many people are actively calling for a boycott of Hisaronu and Oludeniz as a holiday destination.
This will affect the many small businesses in the area that rely on tourism for their livelihoods and also have a long lasting negative affect on the local economy.
As someone who lives here/a tourist I will not use the Dolphinarium and I will tell other people to do the same. I will also tell them:
53% of those dolphins who survive the violent capture die within 90 days
The average life span of a dolphin in the wild is 45 years; yet half of all captured dolphins die within their first two years of captivity. The survivors last an average of only 5 years in captivity.
Every seven years, half of all dolphins in captivity die from capture shock, pneumonia, intestinal disease, ulcers, chlorine poisoning, and other stress-related illnesses. To the captive dolphin industry, these facts are accepted as routine operating expenses.
Source Dolphin Project Europe Captivity Fact Sheet http://www.idw.org/html/dolphins_in_danger.html
I urge you to consider the reputation of this beautiful area as a famous and popular tourist destination and the impact this will have on local businesses and economy and stop this Dolphinarium project.
Yours sincerely
The e mail address for Olu Deniz Beldiye Başkan, Kerramettin Yilmaz, is
baskan@oludeniz.bel.tr
Fax-0090 616 6387
Olu Deniz and Hisarönü come under the province of Mugla so here is the e mail address and details for the Mugla Vali (Province Governor) who is called Dr.Ahmet Altiparmak
mugla@icisleri.gov.tr
Fax-0090 252 214 3188
These are all the members of parliament for the area
ali.arslan@tbmm.gov.tr
gurolergin@tbmm.gov.tr
yuksel.ozden@tbmm.gov..tr
fevzi.topuz@bmm.gov.tr
Linda, go back to Nichola's post above which was brilliantly thought out, well reasoned and concise.
Have you done all the things suggested? If you have and, say an email has not been answered, send it again asking for the common courtesy of a reply.
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Believe you me I have done them all - even Thomsons and Thomas Cook!
My fingeres are sore and I have square eyes I have copied and pasted so many times!!
As I have said it has to be a consolidated effort on everyone's part!!
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Likewise i have emailed all of the above and had no response, nothing from the daily Mirror, am at a loss as to what to do next?
Will try the resending of emails to the above asking for a reply
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has anyone a phote of the developement?
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Newspapers receive thousands of emails daily, a great many from cranks. If emails have been sent repeating some of the comments (and gross libels) made here then they would go into the waste bin.
A calmly worded email, inviting the newspaper to look at this site and Facebook etc (giving the e-addresses) so they may see for themselves how strong feeling is, will produce a response.
If someone has sent such an email then, if it is quoted here, it can be copied and sent out again under individuals' names. Mass emailing is very effective, even when it is just a repeat of someone else's. All newspapers of course, by no means just the Mirror.
A separate mass emailing can be made to Thompsons, Thomas Cook et al and that fact can be added to the emails to newspapers. It gives the newspapers a "home" story, not just something in a relatively minor tourist resort two thousand miles away.
Remember too, newspapers check their information before reacting, that takes time.
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When i have emailed to various newspapers etc i have forwarded the link to the original newspaper article,and the said facebook pages but as you say they probably receive so many emails in one day.
I have just emailed GMTV but again dont hold out much hope.
I think to be fair everybody is trying but i worry we may be too late? Is there any more news on a peaceful protest that somebody mentioned?
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You can also join the Turkish protest Facebook group at http://www.facebook.com/pages/YUNUS-PARKLARI-KAPATILSIN/340170370958?ref=nf
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Done, is that link on the other facwebook page?
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yes Heather
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I have received a reply from Cathy Williamson at WDCS with the attached letter sent today!
Brookfield House
38 St. Paul Street
Chippenham SN15 1LJ
UK
Tel: + 44 1249 449 500
Fax: + 44 1249 449 501
www.wdcs.org
Registered Charity No. 1014705
Dr. Ahmet Altiparmak
Mugla Valiligi,
Mugla / Turkey
mugla@icisleri.gov.tr
cc: Ministry of Environment and Forestry, Environment Protection Authority, Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs
15th March 2010
Dear Dr. Altiparmak
I am writing on behalf of WDCS, the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society, to express our concerns at reports that a pool is proposed for construction at Hisarönü, Ölüdeniz in Turkey to hold two bottlenose dolphins. The proposed pool covers a tiny area less than the size of a swimming pool and is located adjacent to a noisy disco that will cause a great deal of disturbance to the animals. Reports also suggest that salt will be added to tap water for the dolphins to live in. This would be a wholly inadequate quality of water for them. We respectfully ask you not to allow the construction of this facility to go ahead.
WDCS is an international charity with offices in the UK, USA, Germany, Argentina and Australia and is the largest of its kind in the world. Established in 1987, it now has more than 80,000 members and supporters. WDCS is dedicated to the conservation and welfare of all whales, dolphins and porpoises and is at the forefront of efforts to provide a secure future for these enigmatic creatures. We have funded research into the captivity debate over the past decade and we are an internationally-respected resource on this issue.
The effects of captivity on dolphins
Confinement in captivity of dolphins and other cetaceans can alter their behaviour so radically that captives cannot depict a true sense of their species. Dolphins are free-living creatures used to travelling many tens of kilometres a day. In captivity they are forced into relative idleness in an artificial environment where their behaviour is controlled and subdued by humans. They are made to interact with species and individuals they would normally avoid in the wild and whose presence may cause them stress and discomfort and who may display aggression towards them or provoke aggressive behaviour in them. Such displays of character may also occur between dolphin and human visitor or trainer. Captive displays can never truly demonstrate the complex lives of whales and dolphins nor the natural environment they are designed to inhabit.
These facts are supported by the Australian Senate Select Committee on Animal Welfare, who, in their report of 1985, found that cetaceans in captivity suffered stress, behavioural abnormalities, high mortalities, decreased longevity and breeding problems.
Confinement in captivity can seriously compromise the welfare and survival of all types of cetacean. A study was undertaken for the International Marine Mammal Association in 1997 to compare the survival rates of captive and free-ranging cetacean species. This study revealed that the annual survival rate and calculated life expectancy of free-ranging bottlenose dolphins were significantly higher than those derived for captives, in each data set.
Transportation risks health and welfare
The dolphins proposed for display at Hisarönü are currently held at Kaş and are proposed for seasonal transportation between the two facilities. Such transportation could seriously endanger the health and welfare of the dolphins concerned. A paper published by Marine Mammal Science in 1995 by Small and DeMaster looked at the acclimation to captivity of bottlenose dolphins. The study showed that when transferred between two captive institutions, bottlenose dolphins acclimated in the same amount of time as when first transferred from the wild. Acclimation from the wild can result in stress-induced illness and even premature death. If dolphins are suffering similar ill-effects after being transferred between facilities, this suggests that transport is a real health concern.
Turkey, tourism and the need for strict legislation
Following an article in 2008 in the UK national newspaper, the Mirror, which raised concerns about conditions at another of Turkey's dolphinariums, this time at Balik, Europe's biggest tour operator, TUI, stopped sales of tickets to the dolphinarium to its customers. TUI has subsequently ceased ticket sales to two further dolphinaria in Antalya, again due to conditions at the facilities. We are concerned that conditions are similar in many Turkish dolphinaria and ask you to do all you can to address the welfare and conservation issues relating to the captivity of dolphins in Turkey by implementing strict legislation for the keeping of dolphins in captivity and preventing the establishment of a dolphinarium in Hisarönü .
Thank you very much for your time and consideration of these issues of importance to dolphin welfare and conservation.
Yours sincerely,
Cathy Williamson
Captivity Programme Manager
WDCS, Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society
Email: cathy.williamson@wdcs.org
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I recieved that reply from WDCS, now deleted it as someone else has put one on.
save the bandwidth ....oh no I am now a serial protester
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got same reply too...
we could all re write personlised versions of the letter and FAX to mugla - clog up their fax machines and get them working overtime for a few days - not so easy to ignore as an email which can just be deleted.
I'm hoping that they have someone that can translate the English to Turksih though!
Oh! this is me Nichola not Dogan he's cooking dinner :D
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Have just come past the Hole of Shame. Now the shuttering is in for the concrete the hole is substantially smaller than it appears on the previous pics. Even less room for the dolphins now.
Will try and get some new pics tomorrow.
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Getting more inhumane and disgusting for the poor dolphins!!
Any pics that we can distribute??
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The following e mails addresses are no longer in operation - Anyone any others?
Ozden Yuksel and Ergin Gurol.
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Should reach the 2000 members today.
If you haven't signed up yet: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=52035530946&ref=mf#!/group.php?gid=358308272654&ref=mf
OH by the way, the mayor has changed his Facebook settings so you can no longer do a search for him on Facebook.
However, he can be found lurking at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=52035530946&ref=mf#!/group.php?gid=60918454483&ref=share
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if you add in the fans from the Turkish group and assume about 50% are on both sites thats about 3000 people so far.
I notice that some of the local Belediye are also members of the group and fairly certain they are out supporters not covert spies!
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Have had a reply from the turkeytourism@redmintcomms.co.uk as follows
Dear Karen,
Many thanks for your email of 14 March in which you raised your concerns regarding the dolphinarium which is currently being constructed in Hisarönü. The matter has been passed onto the Turkish Culture and Tourism Office in the UK who will refer the matter to the Ministry of Culture and Tourism in Turkey itself, and who will be in touch with you in due course regarding this matter.
Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require any further assistance with this matter.
Yours sincerely
Rebecca Erol
Redmint Communications
2nd Floor, 16-19 Southampton Place,
Holborn
London, WC1A 2AJ
T: +44 (0)20 7745 7255
F: +44 (0)20 7745 7256
E: rebecca@redmintcomms.co.uk
www.redmintcomms.co.uk
Fingers crossed!
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Got the same reply as Skipking!
Has everyone signed this petition?
There's now a petition in Turkish and English to the Mayor that you can link to from the Free the Olüdeniz Dolphins website and sign:
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=358308272654
sessizkalmasucaortakolma.com/dilekce/:
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Just joined the Face book group and also the on line petition which is translated into English.
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I have done everything which Nicola kindly provided, I have been emailing every day and yet to receive a response. I have also contacted my cousin who works at GMTV and he is going to see what he can do and try and put the story in front of the correct people to see if they take it up, ive also directed him to look at this forum/thread so they can see the outrage at it all. Unfortunately im banned from getting onto facebook from work, so will have to wait for the weekend when i go visit my folks and then i shall join the groups.
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There are 2 petitions in opposition to this monstrosity
750 signatures on this one led by Turkish people
http://yasamhakkinasaygi.com/dilekce/dilekce_detay.asp?id=329&DURUM=2
and this one with 538 signatures - target 1000
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/4/stop-the-construction-of-a-dolphinarium-in-ldeniz-turkey
Please sign them and add them to your Facebook profiles and urge your friends and family to do the same...
We CAN beat this.
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The response to the original article by Jane Tuna has been remarkable with dozens of people leaving their comments
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=-2010-03-11
Surely the Hurriyet will be doing a follow up? Hopefully with an interview with the Baskan.
Jane?
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I am hopeful that we will be able to stop this happening in Hisoronu but it has made me realise we havent stopped or solved the problem it means is the 2 poor dolphins wont be transported from one hell hole to another, beginning to think we need to also look at the bigger picture?
I am doing everything i possibly can to raise awareness and i wont stop either but am wondering as there seems to be support on such a large scale how can we raise awareness that its not just happening in Hisoronu but other areas of Turkey?
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Petition links
http://yasamhakkinasaygi.com/dilekce/dilekce_detay.asp?id=329&DURUM=2
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/4/stop-the-construction-of-a-dolphinarium-in-ldeniz-turkey
Petitions running neck and neck at about 850 signatures each with many Turkish as British people involved.
With almost 2500 members on one Facebook group and 1800 on the other we should be able to gather at least double this amount of signatures.
This is just ONE way to make our voices heard.
Please sign up today. Who knows what may happen tomorrow!!!
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Hi Nichola,
Signed the second one, first one is in Turkish, I translated the page, but I don't know if I have to join first to sign?
Let me know and I will go back and do it.
Jacqui.
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Hi Jacqui
the first petition link - Turkish at the top and scroll down to see written in English.
Not necessary to join to sign. This one has 950 odd members now the other is lagging behind still at 851 members. You must have been the 1 !!! :)
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Read the latest news here - includes quotes from interview with Kerramettin.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=-2010-03-18
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Pathetic comments from Kerramettin. Why have a Facebook link if he doesn't bother with 'computers' If he wants to see people 'face to face' lets go and see him.
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just read the article snd the comments. John West seems like a nice guy!
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No sign of any concrete having been laid BUT there was at least one worker on site this morning at 10.30
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My 'other half' says the council can't sell the land. It is govt land and it is really hard to sell and a court order would have been needed.
Do you think they would tell such a blatant lie bearing in mind this can be checked out?
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Who knows Nichola? There seem to be 'Porkies' coming out all the time.
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Signed, sealed and delivered, this must not happen!
Kevin
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quote:
Originally posted by nichola
My 'other half' says the council can't sell the land. It is govt land and it is really hard to sell and a court order would have been needed.
Do you think they would tell such a blatant lie bearing in mind this can be checked out?
One of the recent posts on the facebook page. Will it help??
I've just checked with a reliable source at the Belediye. The 'hole of shame' site is named Prof. Doc. Turkan Saylan Childrens Park. The name is important as it shows what the land is designated for and means that the Belediye CANNOT (legally) sell it.
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I sometimes wonder if there is more to this story than we first imagine. It really is an April Fool waiting to break, I mean - 2 dolphins, up a mountain, in a concrete tank. Why up a mountain? If it was Ankara then you could maybe see the plan. Why so close to the sea but not in it? Hisaronu and Olu Deniz is all the same area, surely a better option as far as site goes would be found. You know, not up a hill in touching distance of the sea, not in Mugla's Magaluf where the ground vibrates till daybreak, not in a swimming pool into which people will shovel salt? It's the most prank filled scenario of my life so far. You would half expect Noel Edmonds to appear at the opening ceremony with a 'Gotcha Oscar' to present to us all.
No, it can't be right. It's only March so April Fools are out. Does somebody want to build something controversial, but not anywhere near as controversial as this hairbrained scheme? They say in the UK, if you want planning permission to build 6 flats on a piece of land, seek permission to build 12. You'll get your 6. Is it possible something grotesque is coming to Hisaronu, something we would hate with a passion, but will celebrate because it's arrival is at least preferable to that dolphin pond?
Or maybe elections are on the horizon. Maybe the mayor will step in and at the opportune moment block this project forever. It won't be the first time someone has rolled a hand grenade onto the political table, only for that to be forgotten when the same person leaps forward at the last second to throw it to a safe area - to be remembered forever as the hero of the whole episode.
Whatever is going on, if you sit and think it through, you have to admit - the whole idea of a dolphinarium in Hisaronu (of all places!!!) is totally ridiculous.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
I 2 dolphins, up a mountain, in a concrete tank
does sound totally absurd when put like that...
The area isn't even big enough for a water park which would be a much nicer alternative
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Interesting article on the BBC website this morning - I wonder if it is this particular campaign that has prompted it?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8572855.stm
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Scunner, that was my husbands reaction.....someone is taking the P.
I wonder if the builders have been paid. If they haven't and it is cancelled ..will they get their money?
Might be worth someone having a word.
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Linda good timing either way :)
This appears to be the link to the BBC magazine contact page.
We can write c'o Editor to Elizabeth Diffen with a real live story on this issue. If they get enough emails they might be interested in doing a follow up on our situation. Maybe get a reporter down here - they have one in Istanbul and would make a nice change from covering alledged political coups...
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There are also 4 links to the right of that story, worth an email to each:
RELATED INTERNET LINKS
Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society
International Dolphin Watch
The Dolphin Connection
Newcastle University
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April 1st was the first thing that came to mind when i read it!
It does seem like such a cruel joke and not at all thought out,
salt water if permission granted to transport it or a can of saxo
if not...surely it would have been cheaper to have cordened of an
area of the sea and no I'm NOT saying that would have made it right
but as Scunner says totally ridiculous a concrete tank up a
mountain!!!
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Making national news here now...
http://www.sabah.com.tr/Ekler/Cumartesi/YasamaDair/2010/03/20/bir_hapishane_daha_acilmasin
If you can translate (not available as English version that I could find)
Ölüdeniz and our opposition gets a mention and says...
Now, all eyes of the world in this facility.
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And keeping dolphins captive at resorts or aquatic parks is akin to torture, says Dr Horace Dobbs, founder and honorary director of International Dolphin Watch, as it separates these sociable animals from their pods. "It would be like locking me in a lavatory. We should respect [dolphins] in the same way that we respect other people."
quote from Daily mail article
[^]Mmmhh I know who I'd like to lock in a lavatory!!!
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Dolphin shows in many countries are being banned in Turkey 12 facility will be opened. Civil society organizations more open prisons to prevent a dolphin moved
Dolphins do not find there is no sweet and sympathetic, I guess. And swim with them, water in games Who would not like to play? What do you think they enjoy this status? Because of their facial expressions güleç happy You can think it, but the original is not it at all. Was won back millions of cute dolphins show, to nature inconsistent and unhealthy living conditions. Especially the situation in Turkey show centers not any brighter. Especially in a show last month in the center of Alanya in a row of four dolphins to die, European civil society organizations mobilized. Whale and Dolphin WDSF German Forum, (Wal und Delphinschutz-Forum) in Turkey in the center of the 11 dolphin show deficiencies that threaten the health of animals and wrong as saying that the applications were explained. This announcement followed the tour companies, dolphin show centers programs began to remove. Describing the brutality of the live dolphin show The Cove named the best documentary Oscar documentary award by taking the world's attention was attracted to this issue. Yet in recent months in the United States a show killer whale pool (orca), caregivers may be as dangerous as by killing what captivity showed the most painful way. Dolphin show themselves towards the center of the accusations are not accepting and they claim everything is done according to the rules. However, there is a bitter reality: that, or so the four dolphins died. These animals did not die a natural death. The other hand they only hear. Who knows how many dolphins died in captivity. Pool period in their conviction seems more and more dolphins will die. However, the smell of money did not intend to abandon the field of tourism investors. 12 in Fethiye dolphin show is held at the center of preparation. After the civil society organizations in Turkey from Europe are also up in arms. In Turkey, the struggle against the center dolphin show at the beginning of civil society organizations Underwater Research Society - Marine Mammal Research Group (SAD-DEMAG) is coming. Association members at the moment, in the town of Fethiye Hisaronu be done to prevent the opening of the new dolphin facility took action. From the Association in a statement included the following: "This new facility for the dolphins in the resort of Kas to be brought in and summer spent in Fethiye Once again for the winter drive to Kas learned. Completely tourism services as this plan is designed in a trade of dolphins as the object seen is clear. of dolphins during transportation of the organs of internal damage, overheating, many challenges such as stress are known to live. Kaş of dolphins in the two times each year to travel, this plan envisages a trading can be seen as a dolphin facility in the drama once more is revealed. If the Dolphins will not be brought from Kaş is new dolphin hunting in the sea (by national legislation and international conventions we According to hunting of dolphins in front of the matter is serious), or imported from other countries to be on the agenda may come. relevant and accountable institutions of new live prey and a new dolphin import permit not to be sensitive to the call. "
HAVING SHORT BECAUSE captivity are
Dolphins in captivity to end European alliance is a member of the SAD'dan statement continues: "Dolphins and whales, in captivity for several reasons they lost their health, according to free fellow shorter lived are known. In the past months in Alanya in a plant a row of four dolphins died for us was very sad. Fethiye be established in a new plant from the ground to be brought or be hunted dolphins similar drama may live. Many cultural and natural riches of our countries with nature and respecting human understanding of tourism have the evidence in the form of a new dolphin facility to be built to stand against the demands is the existing facility as related to the urgent need special preparation of the regulations are underlined. " And describes the painful world of the dolphin show SAD'in research papers, www.sad.org.tr can read his website. Starting construction in Fethiye to stop the dolphin park last one other non-governmental organization to act on the Rights Respect Life Society (YHS). who founded a website called www.tutsakyunuslar.com association also launched a signature campaign is on Facebook. Ministry of Environment and the Dead Sea to be sent to the Mayor a petition prepared by the association members, animal lot of attention to the campaign, says: "Ölüdeniz will be established a similar plant in Alanya Sealanya Dolphin Park in the unexplained deaths of dolphins and then abroad welded tour operators a portion of the dolphin park in Turkey for a tour were canceled. The rest of the tour or to cancel a major campaign is being continued. this business as a commercial future, no nothing. Now, all eyes of the world in this facility. Now, the dolphin park built, not to shut down time. to participate in this campaign, you can sign in and www.sessizkalmasucaortakolma.com address. "
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Have just come past and they are now getting ready to pour the concrete
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[:(!][:(!][:(!]
Thought we were getting there!!
Sorry to hear your reportt Kaptainkrunchie
[:(!][:(!]
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Just found this on the Facebook site
After the meeting yesterday it had been suggested that there would be a follow-up meeting next wednesday, however, have just been advised that this will NOT be taking place. Can't afford to take our eyes 'off the ball' or I reckon we'll be playing straight into their hands.
What on earth is going on?????
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From what I can see the only way this dolphinarium will close will be if tourists do not pay out a lot of cash to go into it. The reason it is being opened is for a profit and if one is not forthcoming it will soon close. Let us hope that the British tourists who bring a lot of business to the town decide a visit to the pool is not what they want. We had dolphinariums once in Britain and they are outdated activities which closed for lack of interest and a growing awareness of animal rights. If the Turkish people want to pay out a lot of money to visit that is their business. Cramming a couple of helpless ocean dolphins into a pool in the middle of a mountain village is not theraputic or even pleasant.
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I will be asking which local tour,trips and travel agencies will be selling tickets for the so called dolphinarium,
It will not be necessary to ask Hamish Mc Turk because he is one of the investers!
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I will try to find out which of our local tour, and trip travel agents will actually be selling tickets for this cruelty,
No point asking Hamish Mc Turk, because he is one of the investors!!
Perhaps he could reply giving his reasons why!
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This is not the kind of thing we'd go to on holiday normally anyway, but after reading all the posts on here about the conditions these dolphins will have to endure we will definitely give it a miss. :-\
Good luck to all who are trying to get this stopped, hope you succeed.
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quote:
Originally posted by lizsouth
I will try to find out which of our local tour, and trip travel agents will actually be selling tickets for this cruelty,
No point asking Hamish Mc Turk, because he is one of the investors!!
Perhaps he could reply giving his reasons why!
Wont use him again
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
quote:
Originally posted by lizsouth
I will try to find out which of our local tour, and trip travel agents will actually be selling tickets for this cruelty,
No point asking Hamish Mc Turk, because he is one of the investors!!
Perhaps he could reply giving his reasons why!
Wont use him again
Not so quick.
Someone comes on, makes 3 posts and seems to know more than any of the locals? I have asked asked around a lot of Hisaronu locals and they don't know who has invested.
Could be a grudge, or could be true??
Best check out with Hamish McTurk first. If he is selling tickets then I will certainly boycott him - but only after I am satisfied it is true.
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IF it is true and he is one of the investors perhaps that's one of the roads to go down? Find out who the investors are and contact them. Make it be known that they will be boycotted, the reasons why, and we won't be shy in asking others to boycott?
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I agree with Peter and I am interested to know how accurate is the statement that Hamish McTurk is an investor in this project. We use Hamish McTurk during the summer for picking family up from the airport and also for taking them on trips.
If it is proven that he is a member then I will stop using him.
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The information I have been given is that the foreign owner of Kas dolphinarium has been contacting local travel agencies wanting someone to help fund the project in return for a percentage of the profits.
This is why I have suggested that Hamish McTurk should be invited to give his response, I have learnt that he has agreed to be part invester, and has the contract for renting this area of land from the belediye
It was given permission because the belediye believes it to be good for tourism
I have visited the Kas dolphinarium and was truly appalled,the dolphins were seperated and imprisoned in very small rusty cages, They had bloodied noses where they obviously had been trying to escape through the wire, one was so stressed it remained pinned against the cage side, The other dolphin was shouted at and the owner constantly bew a whistle at it, the whole sight tortuous.
After the visit I wrote to everyone I could think of that might be able to secure their release,
The owner told me that they were not Turkish dolphins because it was forbidden to use them.These were impoterd chinese dolphins, which they were allowed to keep.
I believed this so called dolphinarium in Kas was to close but now they are simply moving them to an even worse enviroment,
Yes lets hear who is responsible!
I believe it to be Hamish Mc Turk, the russian man and the mayor!
let them admit or deny.
I have no axe to grind other than these creatures should not imprisoned, mal treated and exploited for entertainment,and profit
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I think confirmation is needed before we start to boycott Hamish McTurk. It's very infair to ruin someones business reputation on heresay Liz. Or do you have actual proof to show us?
I will be more than willing to boycott his company if the above statement proves to be true but until then proof positive is needed
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Have already said there have been so many fibs so much lack of information on this.
The Mayor just has to go public and be honest over this disgusting venture! If the Turkish Ministry of Tourism, Turkish Agriculture and Village Association etc. see this as being good for the area and they agree with this venture then they should stand up and say so. Then we would know exactly what to do next to get it stopped!! Or is that the idea get it up and running before anyone can do anything about it!!
Does anyone know if the plans are on the wall in the Beldiye offices just the same as the ones for the new Tesco?
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Latest from the Fethiye News!
fethiyetimes.com/news/44-news/6109-hisaronu-:
Lets keep going and keep pushing the Dept of Agriculture and village affairs to get this decision but it looks as if the project will be finished!!!!
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We only need 20 more to sign up to reach 3,000 people against this Hole of Shame in Hisaronu.
If you haven't yet joined please visit the Facebook site and join us
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=358308272654&ref=mf
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and lets all email Hamish McTurk and refuse to do any further business with him if he proceeds to support the venture. I for one will certainly not use him for any trips in future....nor any other company that supports the dolphinarium.
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quote:
Originally posted by kaptainkrunchie
Not so quick.
Someone comes on, makes 3 posts and seems to know more than any of the locals? I have asked asked around a lot of Hisaronu locals and they don't know who has invested.
Could be a grudge, or could be true??
8 topics equalling 1x intro and 7x anti-Hamish McTurk rants - it is quite clear at least to some members that something isn't quite right - but others once again are ready to believe anyone who arrives out of the blue with a lot to say and not much time for listening.
I have no axe to grind with Hamish McTurk either as I have never had any experience of them good or bad - but it is disappointing how quickly people join lynch mobs without waiting to hear any evidence at all.
Add to that the fact that 'liz' joined up twice on the same day, using two different email addresses, two different christian names and two different surnames - it appears she made herself a supporter in case she needed one - and I come to the only viable conclusion, and that is that I will wait to see who offers trips to this facility before condemning them.
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quote:
Originally posted by sue mac
and lets all email Hamish McTurk and refuse to do any further business with him if he proceeds to support the venture. I for one will certainly not use him for any trips in future....nor any other company that supports the dolphinarium.
Why not first email Hamish McTurk and ask if they support the venture? If they do, then you can tell them all the rest. If they don't, you didn't need to threaten anything about future business.
We are aware that emotions are running high with this project but please think rationally too.
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I agree Keith
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Still don't know how to do quotes but put this on the other thread 'Dolphinarium plans cause major protest'
Can we just all focus at the moment on stopping the licences being granted by the Agriculture and Village Affairs and the local mayors office! I agree with Davidzz upsetting local businesses will not help!! You can vote with your feet if anyone is involved after (hopefully never) the 'Pond' opens.
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There is a new picture on the facebook site.
There is no way this could pass the legislation for keeping dolphins.
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Sign up now!!!!!!
The ONLY site likely to make any difference is the petition in both Turkish and English.
To date over 1200 people have signed - THESE ARE MAINLY OUR TURKISH FRIENDS.
Extract digits and show them our support at :http://yasamhakkinasaygi.com/dilekce/dilekce_detay.asp?id=329
Perleese!!!!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by heather07
There is a new picture on the facebook site.
There is no way this could pass the legislation for keeping dolphins.
sorry heather, but in Turkey there appears to be NO legislation
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Sorry Kaptain krunchie I disagree that the main site is the one quoted which I do not know if it is mainly Turkish or not. The main site which has now over 3000 members is the FB site 'Free the Olu Deniz Dolphins'!! There are also a lot of other sites that are involved with this thread. There are a lot of people working behind the scenes on this, now worldwide including universities, newspapers, and believe it or not television!
I believe any site/petition will make a difference !!
There is legislation in Turkey against dolphinariums. It is only that the dolphins that are being used are not actually caught in Turkish waters!! Sarcasm to its highest I think!!
If we all carry on doing what we are doing hopefully we will get there!!
One of the main people in the Min of Ag is a VET and I personally cannot see how he could condone the opening of this site!!
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further to scunners comments, can someone confirm that there is more than one petitions against this project on facebook. It is not that i dont admire people for trying to stop this but a united effort in trying to stop this may achieve a greater degree of sucess. Maybe a public meeting could be arranged, with emails etc being forwarded by supporters not in Turkey, this way all peoples concerns and objections, including the experts on this matter can be aired in public, and the facts behind this venture can be made public.
Sorry my computer was going mad and i only got half the pages many apologies for repeating what had already been said Plus i have just found out that there is a meeting at the kismet on Tuesday at 1.30 regarding the dolphins.
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quote:
Originally posted by nichola
Petition links
http://yasamhakkinasaygi.com/dilekce/dilekce_detay.asp?id=329&DURUM=2
Maria there are 2 FB groups one predominantly British one predominantly Turkish
There are also 2 petitions but the above link is the one that meets the legal requirements. It is written in Turkish first and then in English. Underneath that is where you can sign.
Hope this helps :)
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There will NOT be a meeting in the Kismet Bar on Tuesday.
It won't take a genius to work out why not.
Apologies in advance for posting this on more than one topic but I want to make sure everyone gets this info.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
250m2 x 4m deep for two dolphins to spend their entire summer in. That means a pool oops sorry dolphinarium possibly just 25 metres long by 10 metres wide.
Repulsive, I hope it fails and swiftly.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=-2010-03-11
E.A.A.M. Standards for Establishments Housing Bottlenose Dolphins
Minimum Pool Dimensions
Total available pool space (including hospital or isolation areas) should be calculated
Follow this link to read more
http://www.marineanimalwelfare.com/EAAM.htm?option=com_content&task=viewid=19itemid=35#1e
to observe the following minima for up to five (5) animals:
1. Water surface area: 275 m² + 75 m² per additional animal.
2. An area of at least the minimum surface area should have a minimum depth of 3.5 m.
3. Total water volume: 1000 m³ + 200 m³ per additional animal.
4. Any establishment having pools which fulfill the minimum requirements of two of the above criteria, and where the third criterion is no more than 10% lower than the recommended minimum, should be regarded as acceptable.
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This pool is only 250m2 so it should fail on that.
How do you work out water volume ??
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Presumably its length x width x depth (250m2 x 4.00 = 1,000)
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Thanks H not up on water volume calculations.
Unfortunately they have met the "acceptable" standard by making it deeper.
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I know that's the calculation for volume - not 100% certain that there is not a conversion factor for water.
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I found a conversion chart just before you answered and it is the same answer.
http://www.poolandspachemicals.co.uk/volcalc.htm
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http://www.marineanimalwelfare.com/EAAM.htm?option=com_content&task=viewid=19itemid=35#1e
They go to say...
Construction of Buildings, Installations and Fittings (edited)
Open-air installations: Dolphins cannot be kept in open-ir installations if air and water temperature fluctuations could result in health or hygiene problems for the animals.
Noise
Cetaceans shall be protected from harassment by excessive noise, including noise from irregular impulses. The noise level shall be kept as low as possible for the frequency range between 0 and 60 kHz (normal maximum ambient sound pressure level 100 dB re 1 µPa). Sounds of mechanical origin are probably the most stressful for the animals, because of their regular repetitive nature. Those of a random nature, except where based on metallic sounds, are probably not so significant. Any doubts as to the effects of any sound should be referred to an expert with experience of underwater acoustic measurement (NOT of airborne acoustics) in conjunction with the veterinary surgeon with experience and/or training in this field.
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sorry If this is duplicated, but I cannot see my previous message here.
I have measure the pool today and it is even shorter than before as indicated by the announced dimensions. This is because there are two wooden walkways being made across both ends of the widths of the pool
Therefore the actual swim area for the dolphins now measure JUST 12 Metres by 17 Metres!!
On a back copy of Fethiye Times Ibrahim Dilek PA to the owner Mr Alesandr Kuznetsov, is quoted as saying they will conform to European standards
I have news for him.. European standards minimum is 275 square metres per ONE dolphin, the Hisaronu pool falls well short considering there will be TWO dolphins sharing far less
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Keith, Methinks you were absolutely spot on about 'Lizsouth',she seems to have gone very quiet all of a sudden!! Does anyone know why the proposed meeting at 'Kismet' was cancelled? Surely the lads were not 'leaned upon'?
It would be absolutely disastrous for the welfare of the dolphins, if anyone, Turkish or whatever nationality, were to pay money for the 'curiosity value' of seeing just how deplorable the conditions are first hand, so to speak, if this nightmare project is allowed to reach completion.
'The pen is mightier than the sword.'
Gordy.[:(!][:(!]
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Very true Gordy. I fear Hisaronu would suffer as much as the dolphins too.
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Human nature being what it is, plus the fact that we are naturally curious, {NOSEY},it doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture some people, albeit well-meaning tourists/residents, visiting this abberation & taking photos to show others the conditions etc.
DON'T GO THERE!!
Sorry for shouting, Keith.
Gordy, Dolphin Lover, {in an appropriate way, of course}:D
Apologies if this reads somewhat like [:(!]: :)a repeat of my previous post, but my blood is up!!
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why shouldn't we go there to take photos to show people what the conditions are like?
Not sure I understand the rationale as a picture is worth a 1000 words and seeing how disgracefully small this pool has surely motivated more people to send an email, make a phone call, talk to the Mayor etc.
Also at least one forum member asked to see photos...!
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quote:
Originally posted by Judith
sorry If this is duplicated, but I cannot see my previous message here.
I have measure the pool today and it is even shorter than before as indicated by the announced dimensions. This is because there are two wooden walkways being made across both ends of the widths of the pool
Therefore the actual swim area for the dolphins now measure JUST 12 Metres by 17 Metres!!
On a back copy of Fethiye Times Ibrahim Dilek PA to the owner Mr Alesandr Kuznetsov, is quoted as saying they will conform to European standards
I have news for him.. European standards minimum is 275 square metres per ONE dolphin, the Hisaronu pool falls well short considering there will be TWO dolphins sharing far less
Judith,
I read your previous post and in case you are wondering, you posted in the following
http://{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}34491&whichpage=10
David
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I think Gordon meant going for a nose after it opens, which I certainly
hope it never does
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Thanks Wallace, that is precisely what I meant. By all means, at this moment in time, when it is not yet completed, take as many photos as possible to show just how dreadfully unsuitable this site is, but, I still feel that some will pay to see/photograph it in all it's 'splendour', when, if ever, it is allowed to become a reality, if just to satisfy their own, morbid curiousity.
As I said, human nature can be a weird and wonderful blessing, and sometimes a curse, at the same time.
Fight on,
Gordy.
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Judith has put together a protest poster which you can now download from here:
http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/DOLPHIN.jpg
You can choose to print it off and display your opposition by placing it in your window or car. Download by right clicking on the image and selecting "save image as.."
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Scroll down to Bottom: Karen Vyse, Managing Director of Holidays 4 U has responded to this article categorically that H4U will not be selling tickets or supporting the planned Dolphinarium in Hisaranou,
http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=3862364&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=3862364&CMPI_SHArom
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That's all very noble but they don't sell excursions anyway...
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Sorry Gordon misunderstood your post - please forgive me... :-\
By the way I spoke with Judith last night and as she hasn't posted this news here yet I will.
The WWF are coming here next week. They will visit the Kas site first and then come to Hisaronu.
This is very good news I think.
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QUOTE from boss of TUI
"Demand for animal attractions such as dolphinaria and zoos is so high that operators can't afford to shun them - despite concerns over welfare, Tui boss Dermot Blastland has claimed"
Maybe if cockfighting, bear bating and gladiators fighting to the death were all profitible then Tui would sell tickets."
Some companies are so sh1tty - profit over ethics every time.
I know of at least one travel agent in Hisaronu that is refusing to sell tickets for this Hole of Shame so there will be a choice
Any travel agent who does sell , easy - BOYCOTT THEM and let them know why.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Judith has put together a protest poster which you can now download from here:
http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/DOLPHIN.jpg
You can choose to print it off and display your opposition by placing it in your window or car. Download by right clicking on the image and selecting "save image as.."
A great idea ! Thank you Judith. Can anyone translate into Turkish - think a turkish one is equally important.
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It seems as time goes on the two running topics are causing people to post the same information in both. To save duplication and concentrate efforts, this one will be locked and you need to use {A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}34491 for all dolphin puddle posts from now on.