Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Highlander on March 21, 2017, 22:07:11 PM
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Is Martin McGuinness dead ? ;)
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Apparently!
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Not too much on the news about this "wonderful" man :) ;) :o
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He will get a funeral service. Some of his "missing victims" will not. R I H.
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I read about how he was such a family man. Maybe in regard to his own - but he ensured countless families couldn't function normally as a family by removing the father. He became a "man of peace" because the net was closing on him and he put his own cowardly, selfish life way up above any republican principles he was once apparently so passionate about.
I have no religious leaning - in fact I was brought up a catholic and am married to a Belfast protestant and I am now religion free. People like McGuinness exist on both sides, and I hate their bullying,murdering gun waving power equally. A man choosing to approach with a gun does so because he is a coward without a gun, without exception.
The world is one power hungry, cowardly thug short today. That's good.
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Evidently the Queen sent a message to his widow.
I wonder which finger she used?
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First time in my life that I actually had to agree with something said by Norman Tebbitt
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Quite odd how many forums / social media show this opinion , yet the media in the UK just portrays him as a peacemaker I lost count of how many times it showed " the murderer and terrorist " shaking the queens hand and talking to Tony Blair yesterday, he may well have helped in brokering peace but I could not forgive his wrongdoings.
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Martin McGuiness was a murderous terrorist. He was also a a decisive peacemaker. Some people seem to find it difficult to cope with these two sides of the man preferring to ignore one side or the other.
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Martin McGuiness was a murderous terrorist. He was also a a decisive peacemaker. Some people seem to find it difficult to cope with these two sides of the man preferring to ignore one side or the other.
He chose peace before his terrorist past caught up with him. No other reason.
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Correct
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He was responsible for the deaths of many Irish people of all religions, he had no regard for who he killed.
He knew Paul Maxwell a 15 year old Irish boy, would be on Mountbatten's boat, but he still ordered it to be blown up. He knew innocent men women and chlidren would be shopping in Warrington but he had no worries about killing them.
He was was a gunman and a vicious killer, who turned to be a peacemaker when it was convenient for him to get out of the IRA when the going was good.
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From what I've read, and heard, in the media over the past couple of days there seems to almost be a witch-hunt in relation to McGuinness and his conversion from terrorist to law abiding politician.
I'm not suggesting that the facts bandied about surrounding it are incorrect - I have no idea what went on in those days in NI & the ROI - but a bit of me says why wait till now, when he's dead?
If I'm honest, I find a lot of what's being said by some ex ministers and politicians a bit hypocritical. The British government probably has as much "blood on its hands" in relation to the troubles in NI as any one individual from the other side. Unfortunately, due to censorship and the official secrets act it'll be a generation or so before anyone finds out what really went on in those dark days.
JF
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I don't think its so much of a witch hunt , his death has just made old news, new news again.
Mcguinness and Addams were terrorists and murderers, I don't care if they became politicians or catholic priests afterwards it does not wipe clean the horrific things they did against humanity and the evil acts they endorsed.
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From what I've read, and heard, in the media over the past couple of days there seems to almost be a witch-hunt in relation to McGuinness and his conversion from terrorist to law abiding politician.
I'm not suggesting that the facts bandied about surrounding it are incorrect - I have no idea what went on in those days in NI & the ROI - but a bit of me says why wait till now, when he's dead?
If I'm honest, I find a lot of what's being said by some ex ministers and politicians a bit hypocritical. The British government probably has as much "blood on its hands" in relation to the troubles in NI as any one individual from the other side. Unfortunately, due to censorship and the official secrets act it'll be a generation or so before anyone finds out what really went on in those dark days.
JF
I think some of us with Irish family who visited from when they were children and through the troubles do know what went on... I am one of those with Catholic and Protestant relatives in N.Ireland and my husband had two friends in the Police Force and I had an Uncle, all stationed in Belfast. My Mother in Law worked as a Civil Servant at Stormont. Some people who lived during the troubles in N. Ireland do not need to wait for information to be released.
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As someone who has lived for 54 years in West Belfast I shall just say I find some of the postings " inaccurate/bemusing"
There are many responsible for murder and mayhem here including those in and out of uniform, those opposing the imposed rule and those within it
Certainly it's a bit daft to lay everything at one mans or indeed one sides door
The bizarre Tebbit story about MMG wanting to retire from the IRA to save himself from prosecution is simply silly- then again from a reactionary dinosaur who counted Mandela too as a terrorist, what should we expect.
Put simply in our bitter troubles there were no good guys with paramilitaries on all sides, state killers and associates all guilty of the most heinous crimes.
My own community suffered as much as any other and much of that was from legalised terror
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Martin McGuinness was proud of his involvement with the IRA, Sinn Fein and his involvement in the peace process. Thoughts and prayers with his widow Bernie,his children and of course all the victims of the war in Ireland from both sides.The IRA was not the only terrorist group during the troubles and many suffered.
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I agree
What it can be difficult for some who did not live through it is context.
I will not rerun the whole history but suffice to say because of the extreme situ at the time some did indeed make the choice to join up to fight the oppressive regime or indeed at that time to defend their areas.
I make no judgement on that as each person is ultimately responsible for their own choices and actions in life. I would however suggest that given the situation, especially at the height of our troubles many may have chosen the same path.
I am minded of Paddy Ashdown, ex MP and British Army officer who said had he and his community been in the same position he may well have chosen a similar path.
This in no way excuses any actions by any side, legal or otherwise it does however put in context how some went down that particular route
Finally I would say it speaks volumes that many many of those directly affected by the violence including like Tebbit-the daughter of a Brighton Bomb victim have been the most vocal in recognising MMGs efforts to reach out and try to bring a semblance of normality to this bitterly divided part of our country.
In this area last night thousands of people men women children stood at vigils recognising the efforts of MMG as well as his faults. I can assure you we do not all count ourselves as terrorists or scum
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I don't see many of you as terrorists or scum, Catholic, Protestant - means nothing to me. Nearly everyone I meet in (or from) Northern Ireland are anything but - religion doesn't come into it for me.
Religion doesn't come into it when it comes to murderers either - they are all scum.
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I will not get into that one Scunner re who's murderers who's not, good guys ,, bad guys one mans terrorist " etc etc
There will be 1000s of us at MMGs funeral tomorrow paying our respects to his and others efforts to bring us away from ALL hatred and division regardless of many people's past and who is/was to blame.as looking to the future is now what really counts
We can all point fingers-but we are tired of it
Takes a lot more to reach out
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Well it's nice to see you back after a couple of years Phil. I could thank McGuinness for that ;)
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Thanks very much Scunner
Hope you and family are well-call over to Valencia some time for a sangria or two
Off topic apologies
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Martin McGuinness was proud of his involvement with the IRA, Sinn Fein and his involvement in the peace process. Thoughts and prayers with his widow Bernie,his children and of course all the victims of the war in Ireland from both sides.The IRA was not the only terrorist group during the troubles and many suffered.
True Bernie, There was more than one terrorist group. There was the IRA Republicans. who bombed, shot and killed lots of innocent people and then there were the Provos Protestants who wanted Ireland to stay with G.B. (who were a bad lot too I have no sympathy with them some right nutters ). They just tried to kill the I.R.A. Sorry, no prayers for his wife and family who knew what he did and complied with it.
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Martin McGuinness was the same age as me and it wasn't easy growing up in Northern Ireland in the early sixties when, depending on your religious persuasion, you had plenty of opportunities or none!!! So many disillusioned youngsters became easy fodder for the paramilitaries, Martin McGuinness among them. That being said, I did not like the man for what he was, but I respected him for the man he became. In the years before the Good Friday Agreement, time and time again the paramilitaries were told that unless they disarmed no political dialogue would even be considered. Well, they did that and a lot of that was due to the effort of Martin McGuinness. Norman Tebbutt calls him cowardly, understandable considering he and his wife suffered greatly at the hands of the IRA nor do I forget the many other innocent people who lost their lives, but ultimately he tried to make a difference. Whether or not he took secrets to the grave is entirely speculation. My dad was born in a United Ireland, Martin McGuinness wanted a United Ireland and eventually learned that political means, not violence was the only way for it to come about. Whether it ever will is anyone's guess.
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Thanks very much Scunner
Hope you and family are well-call over to Valencia some time for a sangria or two
Off topic apologies
Be careful, we're the sort of people who actually turn up ;)
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Whether or not he took secrets to the grave is entirely speculation.
I strongly disagree CleopatrasAsp - I believe it to be a certain fact.