Author Topic: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?  (Read 3368 times)

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Offline johntaylor49

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Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« on: August 24, 2013, 12:35:43 PM »
Going to my Church this morning, (Canalside Pub  :) ), passed the huge winding gear that is still there and made me think of energy and at the bar some conflicting views, some say it isn't economic, others say it is, majority seem to agree it is more costly than Coal/Oil in real terms (cost of installing and maintaining / replacing Solar panels and Windfarms) but better for the Planet.

We are sitting on arguably the World's largest deep coal reserves, should we extract it and use it?

What do you think, or don't care?





Offline scorcher

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 14:59:26 PM »
Well what I think is that you are caning the old Pro-Plus tablets too much ! Grave danger of joining the other RSI candidates !

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 17:42:33 PM »
Good Lord would never touch them, not while there seems to be an excess of Single Malt in the Highlands!

Hic!

Offline apollo

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 18:00:31 PM »
1. Use the coal. With modern technology it is possible to eliminate the greenhouse gases produced.

2. The tide has come in and gone out twice a day every day for millennia and will continue to do so.

3. Photo voltaic cells. Put one square foot of these on every lamp post in the land, feed it back into the grid.

Offline GordonA

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 19:48:37 PM »
As someone whose Grandfather was a coal-miner, whose father was a coal-miner, a I myself was employed by the National Coal Board as a Mining Surveyor, I would not hesitate to open up Scotland's coalfields, (cannot comment on English coalfields, no knowledge of them). The demise of the Coal Industry was purely a political decision, NOT a fiscal one, taken by a government ruled by a woman who harboured a personal grudge. The whole of Britain would be self sufficient on coal for all of our energy needs. As a qualified Mining Surveyor, I realise that there are inherent problems to be overcome with regards to subterranean retrieval of accumulated water in workings, but it is entirely feasible. King Coal WILL make a come-back, soon there will be nothing else left !

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 10:06:56 AM »
Some interesting views, the cell on lamp pots is a tad inventive, providing we covered it with a minimum 5 years jail with no parole for wilful damage!

But the Coal is there and there are ways of extracting it less dangerously now, I only know DOSCO but if
there is a safer method be interested to know more. Don't know a lot about the Scottish Coal reserves, I do know it is a real issue to reopen mining where it has been done before but I guess there must be ways. In England I do know about Berkswell, Belvoir 2 and Evesham and it is my belief, (cant prove it as nobody was allowed to see the drill samples from some sites as the surveys were done in the Thatcher era and sent straight to London so nobody was able to see just how rich the seams were!), that Evesham particularly is huge. Even in the existing areas mines were, as Gordon rightly says, closed for political reason as well as economic, and one has to question the Subsidy against the costs of unemployment benefit. Nobody involved would dispute most mines were hot, wet, dirty and smelly, and could be some danger, but accidents these days are rare and technology for extraction has changed.

Its not just about burning it, its about all the chemical extracts as well and the myriad of things made from Coal, but even burning it now there are safer methods surely it is wise to mine some of it to maintain and develop the skills in extraction?

We will be back to it one day I am sure because if we covered the whole of the South Downs with cells we couldn't come close to generating what we need and the costs would be astronomic?


Offline GordonA

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 13:17:31 PM »
You brought back some memories with the mention of DOSCO, John, but the DOSCO, or Slizo as it was nick-named in some mines/pits was only used for cutting mine roadways in softer stratum, too cumbersome in a confined space.  The majority of the latter day coal was "won" by use of the long face cutting machines which cut the coal ,and pulled the roof supports in as the coal fell onto a mechanised "scraper" conveyor. Still a very viable source of energy, my friend, and as I said before, I shall always have a place in my heart for King Coal !!

 Click this link; http://www.canoseco.com/virtual-reality-sequences/coal-cutting-equipment.html

then click anywhere in the white square. & remember; Keep yer head down !!

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 13:11:54 PM »
 :) how quick one forgets, I seem to remember a coal cutter called the "Panzer" as well? Big improvement on the old undercut and shot blast I guess! Laughed at keep your head down, from what I remember walking? between the hydraulic struts in the middle of the "machine" was a bent almost double business if you were above 5ft tall! We have I believe opened a new shaft in Yorkshire near Doncaster and are extracting Coal there?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/southyorkshire/content/articles/2009/03/03/doncaster_college_mining_feature.shtml

Only a few years ago I was still getting postings through my door urging us to contact xxxx if we had whitefinger or breathing issues possibly due to coal dust inhalation! Our local Pit was closed down with known reserves of 100,000 tons!

We can talk about the "green" aspect of renewable energy but disposal of all the toxic photovoltaic cells cant be very green? All the electronic parts from the Windfarms, they are not very green?

How green really is "green??"


Offline Jacqui Harvey

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 17:51:15 PM »
My husband who is a Manager for an American Oil Company has said for years it was a mistake closing the coal mines.  It is now costing more and more to extract oil and they are going deeper and deeper and also to more and more distant destinations to get oil. 
We used to live in Fife when we first married and my husband was an Engineer for a Cold Storage Company lots of the men working there where ex-miners and we had a few good nights out with them, they always said there was so much coal left in the mines and they should never have been closed down. 
Was in Kirkcaldy Museum last month and there is a very interesting room dedicated to the Fife Mines  and Miners would recommend anyone who is in the area to call in and have a look.

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Renewable Energy doesnt cost the Earth?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 10:47:12 AM »
I will
My husband who is a Manager for an American Oil Company has said for years it was a mistake closing the coal mines.  It is now costing more and more to extract oil and they are going deeper and deeper and also to more and more distant destinations to get oil. 
We used to live in Fife when we first married and my husband was an Engineer for a Cold Storage Company lots of the men working there where ex-miners and we had a few good nights out with them, they always said there was so much coal left in the mines and they should never have been closed down. 
Was in Kirkcaldy Museum last month and there is a very interesting room dedicated to the Fife Mines  and Miners would recommend anyone who is in the area to call in and have a look.
Will have to go take a look next time I am in the "Kingdom"! Scotland was decimated by the mine closures, and, similar to Dr. Beeching and the Railways, it was based on cost per ton to extract and took no account of the costs of unemployment benefit or the long term effect on communities all of which has proved to be way in excess of any subsidy. Many mines were old, dangerous or simply not viable, but a lot were not! Similar to the North East where certainly having men work on their sides in water on less than 18 inch seams was not acceptable, Sacriston went as small as 12" --and the coal extracted with power picks and pans, but other pits were safer and could have been worked for longer. The big issue is we still have huge reserves and with modern methods why are these not at least being exploited to a degree? Is it part of the whole new British Disease or mustn't get dirty and we need 1,000,000 graduates in Media Studies and Political Sciences  :)




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