Author Topic: Syria  (Read 6622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline honeycombe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 09:39:00 AM »
Yes I think definately keep out of this one,  let someone else step up for a change,  always UK. 
And we need to remind ourselves the existence of the UN.  Was surprised at the small majority size though




Offline Rimms

  • Whisky Fingered Lavvy Director
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4145
Re: Syria
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 09:53:10 AM »
I agree with you totally, but the sad  truth is that after suffering that dreadful chemical attack, thousands, probably tens of thousands of innocent civilians will be killed by Western or American missiles if they decide to intervene with military action. Furthermore, I've heard loads of "should we, shouldn't we" debate yet very little about the objective of such action and more importantly the end game and exit plan. If anyone thinks life for the average person in Afghanistan will improve once the troops pull out then your are deluded. The same applies to Syria, there are millions who support Assad, if he and his regime are overthrown with the help of outside forces, those people aren't going to stand around, they will form terrorist organisations, killing and bombing yet more innocents.

However difficult, the solution to this crisis must be formed, executed and implemented by the Syrian people themselves. The sad fact is that many more will die before that solution is found.

Offline Colwyn

  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6412
  • Location: Bristol
Re: Syria
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 10:02:18 AM »
Was surprised at the small majority size though
But I'll bet not as surprised as Cameron was that he lost the vote.

Offline honeycombe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 10:45:20 AM »
Ha ha yes,  felt so sorry for him ! ;D

Offline Colwyn

  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6412
  • Location: Bristol
Re: Syria
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 11:19:21 AM »
The UK Parliament's vote was reported in the lead story in today's New York Times. What it says demonstrates one of a great many problems with the proposed, but now rejected, action:


The negative vote in Britain’s Parliament was a heavy blow to Prime Minister David Cameron, who had pledged his support to Mr. Obama and called on lawmakers to endorse Britain’s involvement in a brief operation to punish the government of President Bashar al-Assad for apparently launching a deadly chemical weapons attack last week that killed hundreds.       


From the American point of view the nature of the operation is quite clear - it is a punitive strike to respond to breaking international law. However, this was not what Cameron proposed yesterday. In order to claim lawfulness for the proposed action Cameron was forced to describe it as “as an exceptional measure on grounds of overwhelming humanitarian necessity.” A punishment-based intervention corresponds with a quick strike (in-and-out]: a humanitarian intervention suggests, to me, a much more open-ended commitment. Not surprisingly, and in view of previous interventions, many people were worried that we would indeed become embroiled in a much longer conflict with little prospect of any successful outcome. Of course Cameron could have said "Our humanitarian objectives can be achieved by bombing Syria" but, somehow, that doesn't sound quite right, does it?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:46:06 AM by Colwyn »

Offline GordonA

  • Chauvanist Clown & Resident Curmudgeon
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2680
  • Age: 19
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 11:32:01 AM »
Suffice to say that; Conmoron got it totally wrong, as P.M. he failed to gauge correctly the mood of the country, which was reflected in the vote, by his own party. Let us take heart in the fact that  the lives of many, many British Service men & women have been saved by this decision. Let America police the world.

Offline kevin3

  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4419
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2013, 12:58:23 PM »
My worry is that by doing nothing will chemical warfare become acceptable and the "norm"?.
Assads backers have proven track records of caring little about the lives of their own people.
World leaders turned a blind eye to young Adolph. Worrying times.

Offline Menthol

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2267
  • Location: Fethiye
Re: Syria
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2013, 17:51:23 PM »
This is indeed a very difficult situation.

However, I am very happy that we aren't piling into Syria or firing (poorly) guided missiles into their towns and villages and calling the hundreds of casualties 'collateral damage'. Have you ever noticed that the majority of collateral damage is brown skinned? And when you die in a war you did not create, do you care if it was a chemical that burned your skin off or a bomb that scattered your body into infinity?

I do not understand the point of being a member of the UN and then not sticking to UN principles. It's this superiority complex the Brits and the US have. Oh and our war mongering 'reds under the bed'/ 'muslims in the caves' neurosis. And just possibly that Syria is very strategically placed on the atlas.

I suspect Cameron and Obama (what a let down you've been, man) will be throwing their political toys out of the pram right now.

Offline johntaylor49

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 984
  • Age: 173
  • Location: Worsley, United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2013, 19:39:34 PM »
Leaving aside the special criminal for the Middle East  :)

Its easy to rattle sabres by ones fireside, the bar of the Rat and Ratchet or the House of Commons.

A few years ago I stood by my son-in-law's open grave watching the faces of his young family as the Colonel took the folded flag, the medals, the Cap and the Belt from the coffin and presented them one by one to the soldier's wife and three children with the words "from a grateful nation". Kuwait, Iraq, Bosnia, he had done them all as the row of medals showed.

How many of us would support these interventions and wars if one of our Sons was going to have to go? For what? So they could then attack each other as they do?

This is a tribal conflict, and similar to the British Empire the French used divide and rule collecting the minorities of Shia, Alawite and Christian and giving them power as easier to control Syria for them. Much of the Middle East conflict is Tribal, a revolt against the oppression of majorities by Minorities supported from outside! Already Libya is in turmoil as the "tribes" attack each other. This is evolution, and could take hundreds of years. Meanwhile its like breaking up a family fight -- they will turn on you!

This is not Port Stanley, and the rules are different.



Offline johntaylor49

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 984
  • Age: 173
  • Location: Worsley, United Kingdom
Re: Syria
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2013, 20:01:25 PM »
My worry is that by doing nothing will chemical warfare become acceptable and the "norm"?.
Assads backers have proven track records of caring little about the lives of their own people.
World leaders turned a blind eye to young Adolph. Worrying times.
Very different scenario, the Tribal leaders are only interested in the main in supporting their tribes,
and making sure they dominate, rarely do they interfere outside their own Country, OK Saddam invaded Kuwait, but
he actually had some cause -- it was originally part of Iraq -- until western governments wanted a buffer at the Gulf end and found oil there! The only reason Iran gets involved is tribal again -- Shi'a moslem. Assad has never actually tried to dominate another country, his father interfered in Lebanon because of the Alawite and shia tribal issues again. Bit different to "young" Adolf -- actually he wasn't so young, he was in his forties when elected.




Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf