Who should be entitled to what ?

[cheers]

My two pennorth worth is that somebody returning to the UK after trying to build a new life in Turkey and failing should be entitled to the same resources and benefits (Housing) as other people entering Britain from other countries.  I'm sure their first stop after landing back in britain wouldn't be the Social Security offices like some!

[Piscoe]

The whole logic behind a welfare state is that everyone contributes through taxation to support those that have fallen on hard times. It is a sort of insurance policy if you like. When times are ok you pay your premiums through taxes and when things go wrong you can make a claim.

It is a very simple and effective system of community support. The problem is that nowadays the premiums we pay are huge and the benefits the average joe can claim are equally huge brought about by a combination of the following.

* A huge amount of Brits who have never contributed (or ever intend to)to the system claiming everything they possible can from it.
* A huge influx of immigrants who have been permitted into this country with the simple aim to avail themselves of our benefit system. Who can blame them? Often they come from an unsafe environment where they have no home, no schools, no healthcare and all they know is poverty.
* The benefits for some are so much that there is simply no incentive to work nor do they feel obliged to morally or otherwise do so.

The problem is successive governments who have been hell bent on increasing yours and my tax contributions rather than face the more difficult task of righting the wrongs in the system.

Right, I'll put my soap box back in the cupboard now.

[Ovacikpeedoff]

So anyone who heads off into the sunset and returns should be entitled to all the benefits that are available. I do not agree with anyone coming to the UK and jumping the queue whether they are foreigners or Brits. There are many hard working people in this country who pay their taxes and there are many people who through no fault of their own do not have jobs who have had their names on housing lists for many years. These are the people that should be at the head of the queue.

[cheers]

If we didn't provide it Ovacikpeedoff we would most likely be taken to the Court of Human rights and after spending money on court cases which undoubtably we would lose, we would then have to provide compensation!  No win situation!

[busybee]

I was a civil servant and worked in the job centre for several years.  The rules I had to apply to the clients who really needed help were unfair and absurd. The milkers of the system won every time and there was nothing I could do about it. I chose to leave this well paid permanant job, with all the trimmings rather than have my own personal ethics compromised.

[Ovacikpeedoff]

If there is one act that gets up my nose it is human rights. I totally support human rights but it has got to the stage where it is rediculous. We cannot throw terrorists out of the country and we have to give benefits to all and sundry. We seem to be the only country that does,the rest of Europe does not tolerate the crap we do. We need to make it clear that these laws do not overrule local court rulings.

The law is abused and should apply to those with a refugee status and not everyone who turns up at Heathrow. I lived in Hillingdon and we were the local authority that had to accomadate and support all these foreigners.They had priority over local people.What was even worse none of the Heathrow business rates came to the LA it went to Hounslow.

I do not like to see all foreigners been categorised as scroungers as they are not. The vast majority of foreigners in the UK play an important part and many services could not run without them.  The NHS and Transport for London are just two examples.The papers seem to pick on extreme examples.I think we should also remember that we invited them in to do the jobs that the local population considered beneath them. Now we are in an economic crisis attitudes have changed.

[Highlander]

I agree Ovacikpeedoff

I'm not sure just how many times I have to say this but I think that giving people who come to this country immediate access to housing IS WRONG.

But I also consider it wrong that people who leave this country for a period and then come back, for whatever reason, should receive preferential treatment as regards housing ahead of people who have remained on housing lists.

[teetee]

Piscoe, Ovacikpeedoff Your points are valid and I generally agree, but what we all need to reflect is that the system is fundamentally flawed and all the time that this is the case then there will always be unfairness in the system.

Walk down most High Streets/Shopping Centres, tell me that all of those around are on annual leave, shift work, retired, housewives/husbands no lots do not work but manage to live a reasonably comfortable life. I wish I could sit in a Witherspoons from 09.00-19.00 each day with a beer or something in front of me, but I cannot and I like most people choose to work for a living. That does not make me less annoyed when I see it though because it is those who have worked and those who do work that have put in to the system so that these people are able to do this. This applies to those born here and those immigrants, the system is unfair.

If you come back from living abroad and have little of nothing to bring back to start over again then you should get whatever everyone else is entitled to if you feel unhappy about this then it's tough as I say the system is not fair and flawed. If you really want to get yourself going look at the NHS, is what happens in it all fair, no some people have the best treatment/ service imaginable, others have the opposite, is it fair, is it right, no the system is unfair and flawed.

Finally, my parents both worked all their lives and paid in to the system. Because they did work and were able to save during their working lives have been able to save few pounds and have a property if they need care in the future they will have to pay for this out of their savings, unlike those lucky ones north of the border, is it fair, no!!

Must go now blood pressure on the up

 

[tonyb]

The old expression should still count - if you don't put it in don't expect to get anything out. Unfortunately, we have three polictal parties, who em don't have a set of ba**s between them when it comes to benefits. I work in this business & beleive, me it is quite shocking & morally wrong for someone who has spent all their capital(for whatever reason) or who has never worked or works only miniscule hours to be paid benefits(including Housing Benefit or Council Tax benefit) totalling more than the average citizen who works full time. simply because they have dependants. The sooner this disgusting legislation is brought to an abrupt end the better.You pays your money, you take your chance. The EU has a hell of a lot to blame for this as well as our ridiculous Tax Credit system.Someone said to me recently, that in time of war,a coalition government is formed for the good of the country. Well. as we're in the throws of a financial disater, I think it's about time a line was drawn under this benefits for all mentality and that the 3 parties got their head together & decided that enough is enough & started to look after our own citizens before throwing everybodys hard earned tax contributions to every bleeding heart that asks for it.The people who really need help (e.i the elderly, dimension sufferers,etc.) got can't get it because the well is running dry & fast.Bite the bullet come back with your tail between your legs & get real.This country has been a charity for far too long.

[thebillet]

Just to cheer everyone up...there will of course be fewer social housing units to go around when the government agrees to make it even easier to purchase them thus decreasing supply?

The influx of immigrants is, I suggest a direct result of us opening up markets so we can shift more stuff to other nations, the quid quo pro of such an arrangement is that there is free movement of labour. As far as my own anecdotal evidence goes, I come from Lincolnshire there are many East Europeans, Portugese and others working the fields around where I live and from what I can see doing a good job. I am far more hacked off by the tax dodges of Vodafone, Apple, Barclays and others as well as the scandalous waste of public money on failed IT schemes and the PFI schemes which while kept off the government books as a debt will land our children with huge debts in the future.

My opinion is that the system will not provide that much for the "deserving " poor once the feckless, wanton and indolent have been sorted out. However maintaining and supporting  a system where e.g. individuals sit in the City of London and get paid vast sums for guessing the future price of commodities or re-bundling mortgages and turning homes into tradeable assets is what needs sorting. It suits those that own the majority of the assets to see those own relatively few to be finding fault with each other.

Oh and just in case the guessing goes wrong, or the re-bundled mortgages turn toxic it is ordinary families that pick up the tab. I don't see the multinationals paying any more in to the pot.