Post by: usedbustickets on February 03, 2016, 22:41:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnrFddSJWsk
Post by: Somerset Simon on February 04, 2016, 08:36:40 AM
Post by: 1calis on February 04, 2016, 18:31:10 PM
Post by: Colwyn on February 04, 2016, 18:56:44 PM
Hilary insists that we visit an art exhibition in March. I am happy with that. Unusually on CBF, I like art. But the exhibition is in London. Now I hate London; simply detest the place. The only good thing about it is Fuller's "London Pride"; but I can get that here. So what I want to know is UKIP's advice on the place. I've heard it frequently experiences terrorist campaigns and it is full of major high profile targets. Apparently there are a lot of foreigners there and many of them don't speak English - they have a language called Cockney. So, is there a security reason why we shouldn't go to the place?
If you don't think I am taking this seriously enough, I remind you this is a thread about a UKIP political broadcast.
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 19:30:19 PM
You' re probably the most dangerous foreigner in the Capital.
Walk the streets with ease (bear in mind that they're mostly on the level so your left leaning posture (from years of scrummaging on the Welsh hillsides) may require a little adjustment.
Post by: Colwyn on February 04, 2016, 19:40:47 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 19:53:16 PM
Post by: johnrc on February 04, 2016, 19:59:47 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 20:04:04 PM
Luvverly jubberly and God Bless the Queen Mum. (a la Dick van Dyke).
Dyddia Da.....
Post by: sadler on February 04, 2016, 20:05:41 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 20:09:32 PM
I was way off topic. Went for w wander up Tangent Alley.
Blame Colwyn......
Post by: Rana on February 04, 2016, 20:34:43 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 21:02:21 PM
Is that before or after tax?
Post by: KKOB on February 04, 2016, 21:20:34 PM
'Call Me Dave' earns £142,500. A junior teacher earns £25,00, So, their average salary is £80,000-ish.
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 21:52:30 PM
Playing darts this evening. Needed a bull finish on two consecutive occasions.
First attempt, just above, hitting 25 with my first try.
Next game, just below, hitting 25 - a fraction under the red bit.
Statistically it would appear that I was perfect!
Post by: usedbustickets on February 04, 2016, 21:59:38 PM
The only good thing about it is Fuller's "London Pride"; but I can get that here.
Oh my friend how badly served you are. It's a well known fact that London Pride does not 'travel well', so if they are serving this to you in Slaverville, reject it out of hand. It's not until you drink it in London that you will realise what good beer is, and what good beer London Pride is. Mind you Youngs now travels in from Bedford, rather than being brewed in Wandsworth, and it is a better pint for it, especially Youngs 'ordinary'. What an upside down world we are living in.
Now to the UKIP PPB. I recognise that you do not like UKIP, and indeed that some of their facts/evidence is a little stretched, but on the points made how many of them were factually wrong and let's list them and people can say/argue over which of them is wrong
Only 3% of Turkey is in Europe.
75 million population due to grow to 84 million
That the size of the population will entitle Turkey to the largest number of seats in an enlarged EU Parliament
That Turkey - under present structure and rules - would be entitled to large parts of the EU Structure Fund and Agriculture subsidies
That the UK will pay more into EU than Turkey could take out
The AVERAGE wages comparison - and of course we both realise that there a large number of people in UK and Turkey who don't earn even this amount.
It is a criminal offence in Turkey to say bad things about their political leaders
Turkey has a terrible record of locking up journalists and constraining press freedom (and not just today)
That Turkish women are ten times more likely to be a victim of violence/abuse than european women
One honour killing a week in Istanbul alone
1/4 of women are married before they are 18
That Christians made up 20% of the population in 1900 today it is less than 0.2%, as discrimination against non Sunni muslims still continues today
Continuing trend for state schools becoming religious schools, number of pupils in these types of schools has risen under AKP from 63,000 to just short of a million.
That there was an attack in Istanbul in which a number German tourists were killed and it was carried out by someone coming from Syria?
And finally they make the point that we will not be consulted as to whether Turkey will join or not.
So how many of the above points are wrong? You see I do not like UKIP, or more particularly the little englander mentality they represent, but they keep making solid political and economic points that the UK politicians, and the European political elite, either choose to ignore or will not answer. They need to address these and other issues if they are going to win the UK Referendum by putting forward solid political point themselves on Turkey or on any other large number of EU related issues.
Now who was it who said that government should be a servant of the people, not it's master.
Post by: Stuart T on February 04, 2016, 22:36:27 PM
It's a crock really - we vote for the government to represent "us" in the best way that they can.
Theoretically, they're the best qualified by training and experience to make those big decisions.
It's difficult enough to run the family home let alone running a nation on a global scale.
In truth, I'd be hopeless at it. I'm a soft touch for any sob story and how I would prioritise where the pennies went I have no idea.
Animal charities have gozillions of pounds at their disposal whilst the appeals to help millions of starving/diseased people go wanting.
I'm sure that a child's life is worth more than a snow leopard's or an Egyptian donkey's but my elderly neighbour thinks not.
People seem to want such different things. How can any government serve such disparate needs?
Post by: KKOB on February 05, 2016, 08:30:35 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/05/ofcom-considers-investigation-ukip-broadcast-complaints
Post by: nichola on February 05, 2016, 16:54:14 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukips-party-political-broadcast-misleading-7315550
My thoughts were that it was cleverly done. Looking more like a travel news item it calmly made claims most people inclined to believe this sort of propaganda will accept as fact. It played nicely into people's fear, reinforcing negative beliefs and perceptions.
The poll at the end of the articles listing and explaining these eleven misleading statements currently shows that 60% of those voting do not find it offensive which suggests by UKIP's standards, for them, a pretty successful PPB.
Post by: loz on February 06, 2016, 13:48:33 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 19:14:59 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 19:59:07 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 20:20:58 PM
Post by: KKOB on February 06, 2016, 20:44:40 PM
....the ukip party is let down by its followers {assholes}
So, are you one ?
Post by: Rana on February 06, 2016, 21:03:30 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 21:48:16 PM
kevinartois - you are damning indictment of an obviously comprehensive education.
(N.B. I may be a snob -but not a bigot).
P.S. That's meant to be funny. Self - deprecation not surrender to the comprehensive "elite" .
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 22:34:22 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 22:40:50 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 22:50:24 PM
One can't argue with ignorance.......however, you're wholly entitled to your point of view.
Welcome to the free world. I'm sure there are many like you.
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 22:57:44 PM
Post by: Scunner on February 06, 2016, 23:08:12 PM
Please fight like angry dogs all you like but keep the language relatively clean.
Cheers.
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 23:25:57 PM
Unfair of me.
I'll do my best not to be too judgmental about the literary quality of your postings (typos ignored - goodness knows , I make enough) however, I will take issue when I disagree with the points you make.
Fair?
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 23:33:55 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 23:37:20 PM
Not sure where that came from.
What race are you?
Last time I looked in the mirror I was human. (sort of pinky grey skin, brown hair and Danish in origin).
Post by: kevinartois on February 06, 2016, 23:47:48 PM
Post by: Stuart T on February 06, 2016, 23:53:11 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 00:05:08 AM
Post by: Stuart T on February 07, 2016, 00:08:47 AM
Go to bed.......hopefully the hangover won't be too bad for you.
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 00:27:23 AM
Post by: usedbustickets on February 07, 2016, 10:24:44 AM
Post by: scorcher on February 07, 2016, 10:51:56 AM
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 11:03:23 AM
Post by: nichola on February 07, 2016, 11:14:02 AM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
What they aren't entitled too, is their own facts :)
Post by: KKOB on February 07, 2016, 11:15:54 AM
(http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Feet-on-Desk.jpg)
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 11:19:19 AM
Post by: Scunner on February 07, 2016, 13:29:25 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 13:41:24 PM
Post by: Scunner on February 07, 2016, 14:04:52 PM
Post by: usedbustickets on February 07, 2016, 16:56:40 PM
Opinions!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
:)
No they're not, EVERYONE is entitled to my opinon!!! ;) ;)
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 17:57:37 PM
Post by: usedbustickets on February 07, 2016, 18:04:04 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 07, 2016, 18:14:15 PM
Post by: usedbustickets on February 07, 2016, 19:06:20 PM
Post by: Scunner on February 07, 2016, 19:08:26 PM
Ok so I joined the debate
Post by: Stuart T on February 07, 2016, 19:50:51 PM
One I understand as English and (as I discovered last evening) the other is something presumably developed in Aylesbury and spoken by only one person - hence English being described by kevinartois as a second language.
Post by: Highlander on February 07, 2016, 20:35:10 PM
ENOUGH please !!!!
Post by: KKOB on February 08, 2016, 08:38:58 AM
Forgive my schoolboy error I had thought this was a discussion forum.
Post by: KKOB on February 08, 2016, 08:41:44 AM
Post by: alixandria on February 08, 2016, 09:08:29 AM
Post by: Colwyn on February 08, 2016, 10:49:42 AM
It's a well known fact that London Pride does not 'travel well'Hold on lad, don't try your slippery London ways on me. The beer doesn't travel, indeed! Did you learn that one and your Granddad's knee? It's what people always say when they want to keep it to themselves. I remember there was an entire series of Carlsberg adverts dedicated to the proposition that the entire Danish population hated Carlsberg international dray drivers since they drove the stuff out of Denmark. Since the British style of ales {IPA} was honed over the years for export to India I don't think it's likely to have a nervous breakdown coming 120 miles along the M4 to Bristol.
Cider, of course, is a quite different matter and the decent stuff flatly refuses to leave the West Country. Which is why the rest of the country wanting an apple drink has to put up with Strongbow or similar filthy muck.
Post by: usedbustickets on February 08, 2016, 12:12:40 PM
As to the spurious cider west country claim. May I remind you sir, of the Garden County of England, famed for its apples and cider, yes the beautiful county of Kent, and lets not forget that it is also the best hops growing area too. And who can forget the great Sussex robbery, when the King of Ciders, MERRYDOWN, was shifted down to Gloucestershire way from Heathfield, East Sussex, to teach them carrot crunchers 'ow te make zider!! Legend also has it that it was Merrydown that inspired Adge Cutler to sing 'Drink up 'e zider' (for tonight we'll MERRY be), and if it is good enough for 'The Avonmouth Bard' (my lover!!) then surely it should be recognised as such by an old Bristolian - via Wales boyo - like yourself.
Mind you what all that has to do with the UKIP PPB I don't know, but hopefully some kind soul will get us back on track by, for example, mentioning the 35,000 Syrian refugees sitting at the Turkish border ?
Post by: Lotty on February 08, 2016, 12:52:51 PM
Post by: Colwyn on February 08, 2016, 13:30:24 PM
This makes it sound like a concerted AKP drive towards ethnic cleansing. In fact the majority of Christians had already left Turkey before the 1923 exchange of populations Turkey/Greece was agreed and completed the clearance. Since the National Governtment could not examine genetic or ethnic bases for identifying Greeks they used membership of the Greek Orthodox faith. I imagine a similar process happened with Armenians {I am not familiar with the history of this} on the basis of membership of the Apostolic Church. This ethnic cleansing was, of course, horrible but it did happen a very long time ago and {now EU member} Greece evicted Muslims at the same time.
Discrimination against Shia Muslims {the majority of whom are Alevi} is certainly present. They do however comprise about 30% of the population {with very nearly all the rest being Sunni} so are not a negligible minority. This is certainly an area which should be an agenda item in any possible EU negotiations.
Looking at items not on the list we might suggest Turkey has much to offer Europe - certainly more than Roumania, Burgaria, and Greece when they were let in. Just as titbits: if you allow me to define Turkey as part of Europe {which it has been treated since the 19th century when the Ottoman Empire was famously "The Sick Man of Europe"} then Turkey makes half the TVs manufactured in Europe; Arcelik-Beko is a major manufacturer of white goods and exports 75% of its output - I have one of their fridge-freezers in my kitchen; Turkey is Europe's fifth largest motor manufacturing country; and its textiles exports are about $30billion.
Post by: usedbustickets on February 08, 2016, 14:44:05 PM
Just for the record they are not 'my UKIP', but I simply think that a number of the points they raise are by and large correct. And whilst many of the political establishment, particularly from some sections of the left or liberal viewpoint, may not like it, it is a conclusion that many other voters have come to as well. And not just right wing jingoistic loons.
Post by: Stuart T on February 08, 2016, 14:56:49 PM
Then along came the Blessed Margaret.
Before she went totally bonkers there were many issues she tackled in order to restore some measure of global respect.
I'm not sure that I entirely fit all the requirements to qualify as a right wing jingoistic loon but can't help but wonder what she would do now in Cameron's position.
Thatcher vs Farage - the winner to meet Merkel in a cage match.
Post by: JohnF on February 08, 2016, 16:19:16 PM
Perhaps I should ask, in short, should Turkey be admitted into the EU?
An alternative question could be "do Turkey want to be admitted to the EU?".
Ankara are happy to accept the various handouts given to countries in the accession process but they are less happy to fulfil the necessary accession chapters required for membership of the EU. Lets not forget the Ankara Agreement way back in 1963, thats when Turkey first wanted into the European Economic Community (EEC) and since then they have managed to complete ONE chapter, the one relating to Science and Research - and that was in 2006!
Feck knows how many properties were punted during the boom years (early to mid 2000's) on the back of Turkey becoming a member of the EU, when in reality, there was as much chance then as there is now of Turkey becoming a full member of the EU. It may happen at some point in the future, but not I suspect in my lifetime.
I simply think that a number of the points they raise are by and large correct.
Shamefully for Turkey in respect of several points, you are right. The numbers don't stand up to scrutiny for many of their claims, but its a party political broadcast - no-one expects accuracy.
JF
Post by: KKOB on February 08, 2016, 17:14:07 PM
Post by: Colwyn on February 08, 2016, 17:43:39 PM
I think there's far more chance of Turkey being admitted to the Arab League than there is of them getting into the EU as full members.Quite possibly. Still that didn't stop UKIP implying that if the UK didn't leave the EU pronto then we'd all be over-run by Turks. [Maybe I shouldn't have used that foreign word. Sounds a bit unUKIPish].
Post by: JohnF on February 08, 2016, 17:56:52 PM
Funny old game international politics...
JF
Post by: Highlander on February 08, 2016, 19:54:34 PM
Forgive my schoolboy error I had thought this was a discussion forum.
touche, sir :)
Post by: KKOB on February 08, 2016, 20:15:56 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 14, 2016, 00:16:53 AM
Post by: usedbustickets on February 14, 2016, 10:00:43 AM
Post by: kevin3 on February 14, 2016, 10:32:56 AM
Let it rest.
Post by: kevinartois on February 21, 2016, 21:26:17 PM
Post by: Scunner on February 21, 2016, 21:30:28 PM
there you go you have a ?
what is racism you judge me and my expression i think an influx of people would ?
Legible huh
Post by: kevinartois on February 21, 2016, 21:40:47 PM
Post by: Scunner on February 21, 2016, 21:42:42 PM
Post by: kevinartois on February 21, 2016, 21:46:49 PM
Post by: Colwyn on February 22, 2016, 09:12:40 AM
Post by: kevin3 on February 22, 2016, 09:33:10 AM
So that's YOUR field fluxed then.