Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Health & Healthcare => Topic started by: farmer on October 12, 2011, 13:00:14 PM
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I know this has been discussed in several topics on this site, but I think I need to point out What happened To me Today.
SGK Health Insurance.
I went to the Fethiye SGK office this morning to apply for the SGK health insurance on behalf of myself and my wife.
Only to find my application refused. Before arriving at the office I had been made aware from other CBF posts that I would require confirmation in writing from a Consulate that 1. We were both retired and 2. Neither of us received any income in the U.K.
It was when I asked to clarify this point that the refusal came.
The office manageress produced a blue Rule Book, and showed me the Non- U.K. income.section, which she had underlined in red. It seems that any Pension, even the U.K. State pension is considered to be "Income" She then went on to say that it did not matter anyway because the SGK scheme for Foreigners had been withdrawn by Ankara in any case. It was no longer available.
Worse yet, when I asked " what about those foreigners already in the scheme " she said the scheme was withdrawn, and pointing to a pile of some 40 or so folders said
" we are in the process of writing letters to them to inform them the scheme no longer exists, even for them".
Does anyone know any better?
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What farmer says is right. We had the same problem with one of our clients this week and our interpreter went to see the manager to get the facts. There will be no more applications accepted and any who have obtained in the past will be cancelled.
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They accepted my subscription this month with no problems.
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Sounds like you may have a short subscription
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At the beginning of the year, my husband got his name onto the Bag Kur scheme, one month later he made his first payment. We then attempted to put my name on the scheme and were told it was on hold. We were told we had no cover and that we should make no more payments. We checked with Esnaf and, indeed, we had no cover. When we finally got the Bag Kur we had to make up the missing payments (amounting to over 700 lira), for a period where we had no cover!!! And now THIS!!! What they are doing to us is unfair. They are screwing us and if I put on here what I think about their system and they way they are treating us, I would be banned.
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two prominent members of cbf were in there yesterday and were not told anything about this?
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If I said a "friend of a friend" was told something along the lines of farmer's post (yesterday at the SGK in Fethiye), eyes would roll. But this has also come up on another forum. I fear there IS truth in it. It is very upsetting and I hope it all turns out to be a misunderstanding.
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I phoned the Consulate in Fethiye today and the information is correct regarding this. Foreigners current BagKurs will be terminated - at the end of this month we believe - and no new applications accepted!!
There is/was a big meeting going on today in which the Fethiye Consulate was taking part and I was advised that this was one of the subjects to be discussed.
It was suggested that the Embassy website would be updated by next week with any further news regarding this.
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We went to the SGK office on Monday and were told roughly the same as what Kingsley has been told. The frustrating thing for us is that we just applied to go on the system in September, they accepted me on the system and told us to come back in one month to add Charlie on. We duly went back on the 5th, found out what we had to pay and then went to Vakif bank and paid the subscription. When we went back to the SGK office with the receipt we were advised not to delay on putting Charlie on as if we waited too long he would not be able to go on. It sounded like that the system was going to be closing again but would re-open in January.
We went to the Consul on Monday, got the documents that we thought they required and went to the SGK office to do what we thought would be a rubber stamp exercise. No, because Charlie has a pension from the UK he is not entitled to be on the system. We were also told about this document that Kingsley is speaking about, and were advised that every person who is a member of the scheme would have to provide this. If they could not provide it the insurance would be cancelled, but none of the staff, including the manager, could tell us where to get this document nor what it should contain.
The goal posts seem to move several times a day over this system!
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If I could add my twopenn'th to this. We were told the same thing at the Consul and SGK in Fethiye. Since it made no sense at all My husband (who is a Certified Interpreter and has been asked for help in this matter) contacted the SGK Head Office in Mugla he was told that in order to proceed the applicant must provide evidence that they had 'no health cover' in the UK. He tried to tell them that was an impossible thing to prove and they said this had been agreed with the UK. The idea that there is some kind of UK/Turkish collaboration persists and he was finally told that UK citizens have to prove that they have no health care (including NHS) cover in the UK. Which also sounded like a crock of....To get to the bottom of the UK's involvement, I wrote directly to the Health Minister in the UK. I received a reply too long to reproduce here which says in essence (and categorically) - there is no collaboration between the two countries and they don't know anything about it! If anyone would like to read the reply in full email me on curleylcurley@aol.com and I'll forward it. It's not a bad read actually, because I had also asked about the current law on ex pat's receiving NHS care. So...usual load of disorganised nonsense...Just as an aside. My husband and I also have Bag Kur and have had since 2008. Initially, he had it and I was covered as his wife. Then the rules changed and I had to pay my own, within 3 years the cost had gone from around 80 lira each to 180 lira each and now is around 600 lira per month for the two of us. Suffice to say we can no longer afford to pay for it and all the money we paid is was basically wasted. So beware! The costs can increase arbitrarily (and unreasonably), you can never cancel it (at least if you are a Turkish citizen) and the debt stays forever~!
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I phoned the Embassy in Ankara today and they said they are not aware of this, but, write a letter and have translated to turkish for SGK office att of:- Dirsen Pinar (manager) airing your complaint and the fact that you have been accepted already. Pension in UK is not an income as such it is money taken from your wages every payday for your retirement (taintamount to savings scheme), you must prove that you are not entitled to healthcare in UK. I have just contacted my old practice manager at doctors for the latter. I have also sent email to UK government regarding this as I am going through chemo at present and am a bit worried to say the least. Also a letter to the consul office in Fethiye att: of Honorary Consulate airing your complaints as Turkish residents pension is not regarded as income and are means tested for health insurance.SGK office number is 6080000
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A friend sent me this yesterday.....
The British Embassy in Izmir telephoned me and said that after the 31st of this month all medical health insurance's will be cancelled unless you can prove that you are not receiving a government pension from your own country.
He said that Fethiye had sent him 30 people who are on the scheme and was asked by the SGK office to check if they were receiving pensions (not private) from England. He told me that he was sending them back and asking the SGK office to deal with this themselves!! He is fully on our side and thinks that the whole thing is stupid.
We need to kick up a bit of a stink here somehow.
Now what?????
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Not sure if it's different in Turkey but in the UK your State pension is classed as income.
If the rules are different in Turkey then I hope all those affected get this sorted. Sounds like another frustrating nightmare for those living there.
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Yes, very frustrating. I don't see how us getting a pension from the UK means we aren't entitled to healthcare. We want healthcare because we are no longer entitled to it in the UK. We aren't bothered about getting the Turkish pension in 15 years (we may not live that long) and we ARE entitled to a UK pension, as and when we are old enough. If they asked us to sign something saying that we will not be requiring the Turkish pension, then we would sign it, if it meant that we could get the healthcare.
Three years ago foreigners could get Bag Kur (if they were lucky enough to find an office that knew how to process it). Just over one year ago they wanted to make it compulsory. Now they are whipping it away from us over the pensions. Why can't someone in government here contact someone in government in UK to establish the facts? WHY didn't they do this three years ago when they made it available to expats?
I hope something IS in the pipeline that will mean we aren't left high and dry (possibly will be mentioned in the forthcoming letters). I just have a nasty feeling that if there IS something, it will be expensive.
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From the Dept. of Health website;
"Are you a UK state pensioner spending more than 6 months a year living outside the United Kingdom?
Author:
Department of Health
Published date:
1 August 2011
Copyright holder:
Crown
Rules, procedures and documentation on access to hospital and primary health care, NHS charges and exemptions.
What if I should need hospital treatment?
Under the current Regulations, anyone who has spent more than 6 months of the past 12 living outside the UK may no longer be entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. However, depending on your circumstances, you might still be considered ordinarily resident in the UK even if you have been absent for more than 6 months. Ordinarily resident is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled. If you are no longer ordinarily resident in the UK then you will have to be exempt from charges in order to receive free NHS hospital treatment.
If you have a UK state retirement pension and have lived in the UK (or been employed as a UK crown servant) for ten continuous years at some point in the past, you will be exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arises during your visit to the UK. This means treatment needed where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion of a doctor or dentist employed by an NHS hospital, treatment is needed quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity, eg dialysis. It does not include routine monitoring of an existing condition such as diabetes.
This exemption extends to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) as long as they are lawfully present with you for the duration of your stay."
I think the Turkish authorities may be interpreting this to mean; If you have a state pension you are entitled to free medical care in the UK, so fly back there for it!!!!
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"If you have a UK state retirement pension and have lived in the UK (or been employed as a UK crown servant) for ten continuous years at some point in the past, you will be exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arises during your visit to the UK. This means treatment needed where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion of a doctor or dentist employed by an NHS hospital, treatment is needed quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity, eg dialysis. It does not include routine monitoring of an existing condition such as diabetes."
That looks like a pretty good assumption you made there Eric. Obviously the Turkish authorities realise that anyone who has a UK State Pension has health care in place back home and therefore does not need it in Turkey. Never mind the cost of flights and the fact they now live in Turkey full time - or the fact that they might need emergency treatment.
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Unless I am understanding things wrongly, Emergency treatment is the only treatment we are now entitled to in the UK. So, that leaves us up a gum tree.
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This is the 'GUIDANCE ON IMPLEMENTING THE OVERSEAS VISITORS HOSPITAL CHARGING REGULATIONS';
http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_128970.pdf
However, when you trawl through the Dept of Health website there are all sorts of contradictions. The final note on one of their pages states;
"Please note the above information gives general guidance only and should not be treated as a complete and authoritative statement of law. In all cases the Regulations place the responsibility of deciding who is entitled to receive free hospital treatment with the hospital providing treatment."
Then you have;
'Returning to the UK after a period of time living away?
If you return to the UK to take up permanent residence here again, then you will be entitled to receive free NHS hospital treatment from the day you return. So will your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are also living with you permanently in the UK again.
In common with those ordinarily resident in the UK, anyone who meets the criteria of ordinary residence or is exempt from charges for hospital treatment will have to pay statutory NHS charges, eg prescription charges, unless they also qualify for exemption from these, and will have to go onto waiting lists for treatment where appropriate'
Therefor if you require any treatment you travel back to the UK and, IF ASKED, you state you have just moved back to the UK. Simples!
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On this one Eric is 100% right.
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I have a friend who isn't a member on this forum. She has told me today that we need to get a pension forecast for each insured person 1 for husband, 1 for wife. This then needs to be translated and notarised. You then take it into the SGK office. My friend did this today. If you do not do this, your Bag Kur will cease at the end of this month, I believe. If you are receiving UK government pension, your Bag Kur will be stopped. It seems we all should have received letters earlier this month, warning us of the forthcoming cessation of healthcover.. I certainly haven't had one.
OK, that's one issue we need to deal with. The other is the fact that this cessation of healthcover is totally illogical. We NEED healthcare. We can only get emergency healthcare in the UK if we are visiting and a problem arises. General healthcare is something we need here. Healthcare for day to day life, illnesses, accidents. We NEED the peace of mind that we have Healthcare and we are prepared to pay Bag Kur to get it!! Why is our UK pension stopping us from having that healthcare???
I will soon have the email address of a Minister who we can send our feelings to on this. The system is changing to one that is casting us adrift. In the UK we paid for Healthcare and pension. We will still get that pension. But we NEED healthcare HERE. You have to be on Bag Kur for 15 years to get a Turkish pension. I don't want the Turkish pension. I want (NEED) the healthcare. When I get the address, I will post it on here. We all need to fight for this, we need to make the government understand that Yes, we will/do get a pension from the UK, but we do NOT get healthcare in the UK (apart from emergency treatment). We are NOT trying to cheat the system by having Bag Kur.
If we haven't got the letter, we are working blind (sorry). But, be warned, my info is that regardless of your age, your Bag Kur will stop at the end of this month unless you prove you aren't getting a pension in the UK.
Of course, this is Turkey and the wind might change in a day or two.....
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Have you ever looked into private health insurance in Turkey?
It's probably more expensive than Bagkur but, like you said, you'll need some kind of insurance.
I've had an insurance from Yapi Kredi for many years and found the price reasonable.
Unfortunately they don't cover serious illnesses (e.g. cancer, heart trouble) during the first year.
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some of the bank ones cover in patient treatment but not out patient so if you have an op you are covered but follow appointments aren't covered - I spy a gap in the market - please post email address when you have it rindaloo. Thanks
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If things don't settle with the Turkish Healthcare, we'd possibly be interested in private insurance that accepts a 62 year old with pre existing conditions. -Any ideas?? The beauty of Bag Kur (for the 3 years it's been available), is it didn't exclude on age or medical history.
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Pre existing conditions might cause a problem with the private insurances.
They probably won't exclude you but might not cover the conditions.
A friend of mine who had broken her back about 15 years ago, couldn't find an insurance company that would include back problems.
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It seems that there might be light at the end of the tunnel. I am sorry to have wound you up only to say now, that we need to wait. But I am being told that calls are being made and hopefully, things will be OK. When I hear more, I will post it here.
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This has been on the forum before, but now I think it is more relevant.Bear in mind that it has not been prepared by a professional.
http://aegeanindependent.com/?page_id=584
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This petition in the Aegean Independent has little or no chance of getting the British government to provide a healthcare service for people living in Turkey. To single out Turkey will leave the gate open for every expat in every country in the world to ask for the same. The government is not going to make an exception for Turkey as the total cost for providing healthcare for every expat would bankrupt the country.
Expats throughout the world have to make provision for their healthcare through private providers and why should those living in Turkey be any different.It is unfortunate but there are many people that have conditions that are not covered by these policies. My own personal experience, being a diabetic, evrything was excluded. I think if I had an ingrowing toenail that would have been excluded.
France and Spain are only main exceptions that I know of where the local NHS is provided to expats.For each of these you need to be an OAP. If you are below pension age you have to provide your own cover.
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I don't understand how it would bankrupt the country as the ex-pats involved have paid into the national health all their working lives. The funds in question will come from moneys already paid.
As for the petition, it has been written to try to bring the subject to the foreground and there is no reason that it could not be listened to.
The fact remains that a foreign person who resides in the UK does get free medical care if he or she is unemployed.
The people behind this petition simply want what they have paid for and if the governments were ever to get together there is no reason that this could not be achieved.
Everyone will have a different point of view on this subject but the fact remains that the argument being put forward by the petition are not far off the mark. If this was ever to be resolved then a lot of people here would be a lot more comfortable with their lives.
As for the ex-pats throughout the rest of the world, I believe they should have the same rights and should be fighting for it.
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The NHS is available to you if you live in the UK. Expats choose to live abroad and if they had done their research then they would have known the situation and taken it into account before leaving the country. Not one expat was marched to a port or airport and forced on a ship or plane.They left of their own free will.
The argument that foreigners get NHS treatment in the UK means that this petition by expats in Turkey should not be aimed towards the UK government but towards the Turkish government. It is the Turkish citizen that should be providing the subsidy. Any expat living in Turkey is actually investing in the Turkish economy and not the UK economy. Expats are generating employment and prosperity in Turkey so let the Turkish government pick up the tab like the UK worker does for foreigners in the UK.
There are many Brits living in Turkey who have claimed double taxation relief and are not paying tax in the UK. I doubt if anyone has paid enough in NI over the years to supply a state pension and private healthcare when living abroard while most people in the UK have to wait months for treatment.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ovacikpeedoff
The NHS...
.... in the UK have to wait months for treatment.
Like :)
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The NHS is available to you if you live in the UK. This is very true. Especially if you claim benefits or are not working.
Expats choose to live abroad and if they had done their research then they would have known the situation and taken it into account before leaving the country. Not one expat was marched to a port or airport and forced on a ship or plane.They left of their own free will.
These people who left of their own free will and knew the consequences but still went ahead and done it, left because they wanted a better quality of life. The fact that they still are able to draw their pensions but are not able to get any medical care is frustrating for them. The British government says "Yes they are able to have their pensions because they paid into it all their working life," but are reneging on the funds for medical services.
Personally I see no difference between the two. The fact remains that we all paid national insurance for the period of our working life. That money has now been claimed by the British government with apparently no come back. What if we were to open a court case to reclaim the money we paid during those years?
In reality what is required here is for a certain amount of discount that could be subsidised by the British government from the funds that have been paid by the ex-pats who live here.
Yes I agree that the foreigners here are contributing to the local economy but please do not forget how much they contributed to the UK economy during their working lives.
As far as those who have claimed double tax relief, my opinion is that they are in the minority of the population of the ex-pat community in the area. My feelings go out to those who have retired legitimately and now have been left in the lurch by the state system.
The reality of the situation is that ex-pats, who live either in Turkey or in any other part of the world, should be entitled to some sort of subsidy towards their medical care.
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It is totally unfair to pick out people who are unemployed or claiming benefits. The vast majority of these people would prefer to be in work.
The government is not reneging on medical services as they are available if you live in the UK. No one has been left in the lurch by the state system.You choose to live in Turkey and as you stated you knew the consequences.When deciding on whether it is a better quality of life or not you should have taken the potential impact of healthcare into consideration and whether you could afford it.
If you were to open a court case you would be told as I have stated you knew what the rules were and the government has not changed its stance.You are getting it back you are getting a pension for life and you can have free healthcare under the NHS as long as you live in the UK.When people who are now expats were living in the UK they were contributing to the growth of the UK economy and were getting whatever benefits arose. Now you move to Turkey contribute to the Turkish economy and expect those in the UK to subsidise it.
The French who have a system similar to the Uk does not provide subsidised healthcare for french people living abroad.
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As far as I know if a Turkish citizen applies for a settlement visa in the UK and is granted one they are entitled to NHS care - if a British person applies for a residency permit in the Turkey they are not entitled to free health care - yes I chose to live here and yes I was aware if the rules but if the UK gives legally residing Turkish citizens health care surely Turkey should reciprocate.
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It isn't free though, we are paying Bag Kur. Also, they seem to be planning to stop Bag Kur without notice. Surely this is not legal, surely we entered a contract with them when we took out Bag Kur?? Oop. there I go, logic again....
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It is easy to see this from both sides - Ovacikpeedoff makes his points very well - almost every UK government document where you are tapping into the services or funding asks: "are you residing in the UK?" - so it should not come as a surprise.
Although as Rindaloo states - you are "paying / willing to contribute towards the cost" so to me it looks like a bureaucratic mess and if you can lobby BOTH governments and get representatives to sit down together I suspect there is a way through this as ex-pats are willing to contribute and the UK government saves the cost of people flying home to their "registered address???" to have surgery.
Go on lobby for your lives - literally!!! :)
Ps I still have a strong view that in the UK we should be able to see what every household has paid in / and taken from (NHS/Benefits) the system and the balance should determine how far you are allowed to go and those with highly negative balances should have individual assessments before further payments are sanctioned.
Life is pareto and 20% spoil it by taking far too much - as always!!
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Kizkucuk,Rindaloo and Ian, I have not got a problem with what you are saying and agree with you. All I was trying to point out is that there should be an agreement with Turkey that expats who are registered as residents get the same terms and conditions as the locals do and the excess cost is carried by the Turkish government.Turkey does not operate an automatic free health service and it is means tested. I totally support a petition that asks the UK government to intervene to ensure that this is the case.
What does wind me up is that some people expect the UK government to pay towards healthcare when living abroad. They make it sound as if the government has taken something off them and it has not.I am not 100% sure I think expats who are OAPs qualify for the basic winter fuel allowance. I do not see many of those who want the government to pay for healthcare returning the winter fuel allowance when they are sitting in the sunshine and the OAPs in the UK are dying of exposure.If it is not automatic there are some expats getting it under the registered address in the UK.
As you say Ian, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil it for the majority.
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To be honest, I haven't given much thought to whether the UK should be contributing towards our healthcare here. My issue is with the fact that Turkey (three years ago) offered us healthcare, named a price, we complied with the requirements and now they seem to be moving the goalposts AND taking it from us with no official notice.
Now, if the UK added some money to supplement our contribution to Bag Kur, that would be great. But as I say, I haven't put much thought into it, as there are many different ways of seeing the 'right' in that one.
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I was one of the first to find out about the end of the SGK scheme for foreigners. I ran the Consul in Antalaya, and also the Embassy in Ankara. Last week I got a call from the Consul in Izmir telling me they are in discussion with Aknara, but that it might be helpful if we launched a write-in campaign as there are so many of us here.
I spoke to Jane at LoL about this and she suggested that we have a meeting, giving about 3 weeks time to get the word around, to organise this. I was expecting a call from the person who deals with this Forum but have heard nothing. Will try calling the paper later today. I have had a shop in H tell me that although they are closing shortly, they would put a flyer in the window for us. Another idea to spread the word.
A German neighbour who looks after his 85 yr old mother had his cancelled. Hers has always been on a shared basis with German insurance. Pensioners there pay a small premium, and when they have treatment here, they don't pay, but the Turkish gov't bills the German gov't or their ins for a portion and they pay the rest. They told her son that there were forms he could fill from Germany and get the same arrangement. Maybe it is the UK gov't we need to target? Cheers. One more time! this is the most complicated site I have ever visited!
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There is a new idea. Lets get together or something to that effect. Instead of everyone picking holes in each others comments why doesn't everyone do what we have been trying to for the last 2 months.
It doesn't matter who heard first or who knows best, the end goal should be the same for all ex-pats living here. Everybody needs to have some form of medical insurance, whether it be from the Turkish or British governments.
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Well said Vinvola!! I believe there is more to know on this, this is the information I am getting. Maybe once we hear something official, we can sort something out.
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quote:
Originally posted by shutterbug
this is the most complicated site I have ever visited!
Maybe if your proposal is for everyone to pull together, it might be an idea to lead by example and not criticise the places that you are calling on for help. Over 20,000 different people use this site quite easily every month and in 8 years, not one has made an attempted reply to one topic but replied in a completely different topic entirely. Until you, today.
You will find great support from the members here for the cause, it would be decent etiquette to at least try not to blame the tools. Thanks.
Ok said my piece, I'll butt out as the topic is of no relevance to me ;)
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It seems that the threat of having to pull together has deterred anyone else from commenting on this thread.
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I have heard today that if anyone has problems with clerks at SGK offices, over Bag Kur, they should mention Act 5510.
People paying into Bag Kur will not be allowed to get the UK pension AND the Bag Kur Pension. SO they wont get the Bag Kur pension. If you already have Bag Kur, you can remain on it. If you want health insurance and haven't already arranged it, you will have to go on the normal health scheme, which used to be called UHI. A couple will be required to have 2 separate premiums. It appears that we do not have to provide proof that we have a pension from the UK (!). I am paraphrasing this message from one sent to me privately. This info as a result of face to face discussions with the head of the SGK in Ortaca and phone conversation with "the main man in Mugla".
So, that's it for now. I feel relieved but uneasy. I have lost faith in any pronouncement because too many things have changed over this, but maybe we are actually getting to the sharp end of this stick.
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Ok. First of all, I'm sorry that I am so dumb that my first post went to another conversation and the second disappeared altogether. Finally I did something right and the third got posted. OK Scunner? My stupidity as you so clearly pointed out. Not criticism of the site.
Now to the point of the exercise.
My income from the UK is so low that I am not subject to tax. That is no premium for NHS. If I lived there I would be in reciept of housing benefit, top up of Gov't pension and disability. I am about to be 75 so other things would have applied but I hear that reduced TV lic has been revoked. I prefer to live on my income, not on benefits. And fyi, I have worked as a full time teacher plus extra tuition and community work for 30 years. Marriage,divorce, unscrupulus business partners and the a recession, wiped out all of that. All I have I have earned on my own since 1990. Working two jobs of course.
I understood that I was open to lack of treatment for some things if they were too expensive here. Balanced against the risk of the doctors in the UK who dont' want to spend money on the elderly, it was a toss up. Here I have a life. There I live in a box I couldn't afford to heat in a climate that leaves me in constant pain because of the cold and damp. So yes, I was willing to take the risk. HOWEVER, that is not the issue. The issue is, it was given and then taken away without legitimate reason so far as I can see.
I was happily paying my 205tl for SGK. I pay for residence, and I expect to remain here permanently. Why this insurance should be suddenly cancelled makes no sense to me. A Turkish citizen my age would not pay. No problem. I am happy to pay. But do not try to tell me that I am paying for anything in the UK, or would be.
As I understand it, Bag Kur has nothing to do with the health insurance we were offered. I do not get an OAP in Turkey and do not expect to. All I want to do is pay the premium and get the health insurance. I live alone, am not married, and only interested in the health care.As long as Turkey doesn't join the EU, I can manage pretty well on my income.
Are you saying that this is still available? No one ever asked me if I had a pension from the UK, only if I was entitled to health care...which I am not.
Do I need to go to Mugla? who do I need to see? I will apply for permanent residence in a month or so, but that takes a long time and my Turkish is bir az. That would change everything, but in the meantime.... thanks for your input Rindaloo and Vinvola. Perhaps the lack of enthusiasm for organisation Vinvola reflects those who keep addresses in the UK and do go back to keep their NHS in force. New passports will sabatoge that plan I think. ;-) BTW check your passport. If it isn't fairly new, it doesn't have the little gold wire running aroung one page with a microchip at the bottom. The next one will though. That alerts the UK gov't of your comings and goings and I have heard, the NHS as well. Ah yes, Big Brother is watching you. Take care.
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I think you have been watching too much of Spooks ;) The current biometric passports do not hold massive amounts of information on the chip - only the same details as are on the photo page of your passport. You can even go to your nearest passport office and have the chip read in front of you to show you what is on it.
Biometric 2 has been scrapped. This would have run along side the identity card which has also been scrapped by the Tories.
"How the biometric passport is used:
The chip containing the biometric and personal details has an antenna that means it can be read electronically. Biometric checks can be used at border controls, especially at 'ePassport gates' (automated passport control gates). They can also be used by the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) to check the image on passport renewal applications against images held on record."
The chip inside the passport contains information about the holder's face - such as the distances between eyes, nose, mouth and ears. These details are taken from the passport photograph that you supply. They can then be used to identify the passport-holder. The chip also holds the information that is printed on the personal details page of your passport.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/Applicationinformation/DG_174159
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Sorry - that was off topic! I'll butt out now and let those who it affects continue the discussion :)
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I have contacted David Reddaway at the British Embassy in Ankara, David Cameron, William Hague & the health secretary on this problem with health insurance as UHI is still on hold as far as I know. So yes everyone should lobby the government in uk on this.
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Ok, that's good. What about Ankara?
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Here's the email we have all been waiting for. My friend Lynda has had many conversations with him. He has been a huge help. When William says Mr and Mrs is on pension he means retired. William has "been a star" in all his efforts to clarify things for us. Can I please suggest we all email him to thank him for his attention to our problems and his sensitivity to our concerns..... PM me for his email address 8)
Hello Lynda,
Yes very good news, Birsen DURSUN, the SGK Director confirmed what their Director General told me. All Health Insurances will continue, so please let all know that they can go and pay their fee. It will not matter whether the person is on pension, only they will have to apply to the :
Department of Health
Richmond House
79 Whitehall
London SW1A 2NS
Phone: 0044 207 210 4850 (Office opening hours 08:30-17:30 Mon-Fri)
Textphone: 0044 207 210 5025 (for people with impaired hearing)
Fax: 0044 207 210 5952
To obtain a letter stating that even that Mr/Mrs .................... is on pension, because they have been a resident in Turkey for over six months they have lost their right to use NHS health service in the UK. Within one month this letter (not an e-mail or fax) should be handed in to the local SGK Directorate.
I phoned the Department of Health in the UK and explained the situation to a gentleman, he told me that members of the community in Turkey should go to their web page and put in a written application requesting such letter and within twenty days they should give them the necessary reply (only make sure to state that the Turkish authorities wants this information in writing on an letter headed paper).
Kind regards,
Willy Buttigieg
A. Willy Buttigieg MBE \ Consul \ British Consulate \ Izmir
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That is good news - well done
I will e-mail Willy to say thank you even though it does not affect me yet as we will always need friends like this :)
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Well done! I hope this sorts it all out for everyone.
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You need to send request on this page:
http://www.info.doh.gov.uk/contactus.nsf/memo?openform
Need to click on option :
How would you like us to reply to your enquiry? and select post
Might need to modify request as some people are not as yet on a state pension.
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Thanks for that Paul!!
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Thanks to Lynda for all her chasing of the Consul in izmir and to Rindaloo.
Now we just have to wait to get our letters from Dept of Health and hope that when we present them to SGK in Fethiye that this will be sorted out finally - fingers crossed.
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Well done Linda,
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Hi there, just wondering if anyone has received their letter from the Dept of Health. We received one today but I'm not sure how much use it is going to be. Copy of text below:
Dear Mr Leighton,
Thank you for your email of 28 October to the Department of Health about access to NHS treatment for UK citizens living in Turkey" I have been asked to reply.
I should explain that the Department is unable to provide any document
confirming that a person is no longer a UK resident as it does not have access to that information. I suggest that you show this letter to the authorities in Turkey, possibly supporting this with any documents you have showing that you are no longer resident in the UK.
The UK has a residency based healthcare system, and entitlement to free NHS hospital treatment in England is based on whether someone is ordinarily resident in the UK, not on British nationality or the past or present-payment of National Insurance contributions or UK taxes. 'Ordinarily resident' means, broadly, living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being. Those who have moved their sole residence to Turkey will not be considered ordinarily
resident in the UK and will therefore not be automatically entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in the UK on visits home"
Anyone who is not ordinarily resident here is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 201 1. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether an overseas visitor to the UK is exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories or liable for charges.
Those persons in receipt of UK state pensions who choose to live in another country, either pennanently or for more than six months each year on a regular basis, are exempt from charges for any hospital treatment the need for which arises while they are staying here, as long as they previously lived here for at least ten continuous years in the past. This would include if they fell ill or were injured while on a visit here, or if they needed urgent treatment of a pre-existing
condition. However, it would not include pre-planned treatment or routine treatment of a pre-existing condition"
Anyone who takes up, or resumes permanent residence in the UK becomes fully entitled again from day of return, including for pre-planned treatment.
In all cases,the decision on whether someone is ordinarily resident, exempt from charges, or chargeable, lies with the NHS trust providing treatment. They must make that decision based on the evidence provided by the patient and in accordance with the charging regulations.
I hope this reply is helpful.
Not sure what to do next now!
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Its a farce all together. I went to Mugla yesterday (Monday) and had a consultation on Bag Kur. On way home I called in on Yucelen Hospital in Ortaca and they asked if I had had trouble with Bag Kur, but I had had no problem. They said someone on Bag Kur had had it refused just as they were about to have an operation yesterday (Monday).
Today the Ortaca hospital has emailed me to say I am now 'Red Flagged' as having no cover. They are working their way through everyone they knew and "everyone has a red flag".
I know Willy is trying to sort something out for us, but I also know he is at a big meeting in Istanbul. I am hoping the meeting might (in my dreams) include this subject. This will cause suffering to many people. It is truly unfair for us to be put in this position when we have dived through hoops to comply with SGK requirements and they have now done this to us WITHOUT NOTIFICATION (have any of us had a letter from SGK telling us they were going to do this????). It's all down to a lack of cooperation and communication between SGK and NHS and its a poor show.
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Maybe what we need to do is enlist the help of an investigative reporter in the UK as well as one in Turkey..big papers...to look into the situation and make a big fuss in the papers. Age concern might also be helpful. Having said that, in light of the letter recieved, just a simple letter stating that if we could prove that we are ordinarily resident in Turkey, we have no rights or access in the UK. Simple as in keep it simple stupid. That should be enough for the Turks.
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I received a letter from Dept Of Health to say that as I am now a perminant resident in Turkey I am no longet entitled to any NHS service. My doctor also wrote to me to say I am no longer on his books so am not entitled to NHS Health Care. I was at Antalya University Hodp yesterday and encountered no problems nor the week before when I had a Pet Scan.
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We still have our Bagkur and i used it yesterday at Esnaf with no problems.Hubbie also got his 3 month recete(prescription)for his free medication from local clinic with no problem.Not red flagged yet by the look of it.
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March girl. Did you take both of these letters into the SGK office in Fethiye? Did you have to have them translated?
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Willy at the British Consulate in Izmir, is just back from a big meeting in Istanbul. He has been told of the situation with Bag Kur and he is "dealing with it straight away".
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Ok, here's a new one. Today I got a registered letter from SGK which says that if I go to my consulate and get a letter stateing that I am no longer eligible for health care in the UK, they will re instate my SGK insurance. This must be done within 30 days.
Called Antalaya and the woman I spoke to knows nothing about it and says I have to write to the UK. Called Ankara and they told me to go to the office in Fethiye. He may know something, but has no power. So now it seems that the Turkish gov't is more on our side than the UK. Surprise!
Anyone else get one of these? Any ideas? Can't recall the number of the Consular in Izmir who called me some time back. Maybe tomorrow.....
Cheers
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Have PM'd you.
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I also received a registered letter from the SGK,and had it verbally translated,the gist of which is as follows.
To meet the requirements to join the SGK you must provide documentary proof that you are retired,ie receiving a state pension,also proof you are out of the NHS.
These two documents must be translated and stamped by the notary
Further more,if you have been in the SGK,have received medical treatment,operations etc,and cannot provide the documents required,your insurance payments will be returned and you will have to pay for any treatments.
You have 30 days to comply with the requirements.
My translator did not mention any payments being returned if you had not made a claim.
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Willy has been discussing all this with the Director of SGK in Ankara, since Thursday. Tomorrow there could be a big step forward in all this, I hope. Interestingly, he says that he has spoken to the manager of the SGK in Fethiye and she assured him that they did not stop the insurances (Despite me being told TWICE, this week that mine HAS been stopped!!!!!).
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Any update on this?
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Nothing, sorry, nothing's simple, eh. Our payment due. Going to pay, don't want to give them any excuse. No letter from SGK as yet...
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I bumped into Neylan in Fethiye today who was going to take our letters confirming that Mike is in receipt of a UK state retirement pension and that neither of us are entitled to NHS treatment as we have lived in Turkey for more than six months.
Neylan told me she had been into the SGK office and had been told that our Bag Kur will cease at the end of December. She is now saying that we are not entitled to government health insurance because Mike receives a pension. I am extremely confused (as I'm sure many others are) as originally we were asked to get proof that he is in receipt of a pension. Surely health cover is a separate issue?
She did say that Willy was speaking to someone in Ankara and that it may be that information isn't reaching the Fethiye office. I can understand the manager being reluctant to act on hearsay but if anyone here can throw any more, hopefully positive, light it would be a great relief. She hoped to have more news in the next day or so.
Neylan also suggested that we get in all our visits to specialists etc. before the end of December. So if anyone is planning a heart attack they'd better get a shift on! Sorry if this sounds rather flippant but it was the way it came across to me today.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo
Nothing, sorry, nothing's simple, eh. Our payment due. Going to pay, don't want to give them any excuse. No letter from SGK as yet...
You mean they have let you keep paying? They stopped me in Oct...returned the premium. Willy says they shouldn't have, but they very rudely told me to get the letter today at the SGK office in Fethiye. Will be calling Willy when he gets back from his conference! not happy. :(
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We haven't paid yet, probably in the morning. That will be interesting, eh! I have heard various stories of people managing to pay in one office, while payment is refused in another *shrug*
Shutterbug, Willy got back from the conference on Thursday last week. He IS on to it. I hope there is news soon. If I hear anything I will post it.
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Here's the latest message. Slowly slowly, but things are happening.
"William has given the translated letter from the NHS to the Director General of the SGK and he is calling a meeting to discuss the letter etc. When William read the letter to the D G he said that it was good and all seemed ok but of course there has to be a meeting to discuss and hopefully approve the letter then all should, we hope, be ok."
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Ihshallah!!!!
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Yup, çokly...
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From voices paper some movement with a bit of luck
http://www.voicesnewspaper.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5141
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OK, here's the latest: My friend Lynda had been speaking to Willy at the British Consulate, he said SGK Healthcare is going to become compulsory to Residence Permit holders (as was threatened summer 2010). Those who haven't got it yet will have to have a medical. Willy will be putting all the info on the British Consulate site in the next month. I believe that those who already have Bag Kur, will not have any problems. I don't have any more info, sorry. We will have to wait for the update on the Consulate site.
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I spoke to Willy yesterday and he told me that the Director had informed everyone that if they are resident there is no problem and that I should go to the Fethiye office and have no trouble being re instated. Wrong. Woman in chargh, although a little less rude, maybe because I had lost my balance and had fallen again with a big lump on my head, said I had to get a letter from the local Consular office in Fethiye, but not until today. I came home and looked up the website and sure enough, Ahmet had a training session in the am. Called in PM and unfortunately 2 Brits have passed away this week and he was really busy. Said to call him on Thursday. Called Willy today and he said no, go back and tell the woman if she did not re instate me immediately to call Mustafa Juruca the Director General in Ankara,or Ibrahim Geveval (sp?) his assistant. If she refuses he also wants a letter in writing from her. Apparently Mugla has been a pain to everyone. He said mine should never have been cancelled in the first place. Will let you know what happens tomorrow, assuming I last that long. ;-)
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That woman is a menace.
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Such restraint...such an understatement! lol
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@Rindaloo, interesting development regarding the compulsory Bagkur. What do you mean with "those who haven't got it yet will have to have a medical"?
Do you mean that everybody will get a medical examination in order to qualify for the insurance? (like many of the private insurance companies do)
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I think so, yes. But don't hold me to this. am merely passing on what my friend told me. She has been speaking to Willy at the British Embassy.
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Really interesting. I'm wondering what will happen and in case of a compulsory medical what the policy related to pre existing illnesses is going to be.
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Great for property prices - can you imagine the conversation:
"Yes - that is correct - to use your new property more than 90 days in the 6 month summer period you will need to take out a residents visa which you will need for lots of very important things anyway and Yes you will then have to pay for State Medical Cover that will cost you quite a lot of money and Yes there are fewer flights to Dalaman so prices are getting dearer and Yes logic does indicate that you will find it very difficult to sell your property in a few years time as we have far more properties than buyers - sign here"
Good job we love the place ;)
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When we joined Bagkur my husband already had an existing medical condition that had been diagnosed in the UK. All he had to do was see a doctor at the hospital and he did a medical check that confirmed my husband still had the condition and the doctor sent a letter to Ankara who stamped and approved the findings and added the condition to his Bagkur insurance. He now gets his medication by recete(prescription) from a doctor in our village using his bagkur.
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I might be proved wrong, but I think the rules will be different for people joining the system now.
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When I joined a year ago there was no question about pre existing conditions. They were just dealt with and covered. Willy has said that I should never have had my cover cancelled. It was apparently down to the Mugla/Fethiye problem. We'll see what happens when/if it is re instated. Don't see how they can change what they already approved.
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We must be lucky then as we have never had any problem with our Bagkur since we got it over a year ago. Never had a letter from SGK office , never had a payment refused. All has been plain sailing.
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May I ask are you over 65?
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Just. Why? Does it make a difference.
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Apparently those of us with an OAP pension from the UK had our insurance cancelled and have not been allowed to regain it. They seem to think this entitles us to UK NHS. Of course 6 mos out of the country makes it unavailable to any Brit and it never was an insurance policy. So 60 and over, you're out of luck. I'm 75 with no insurance, no money and unable to see the cardiologist or the neurosurgeon whose care I was under at Esnaf because they returned my premium in Oct. I had had the cover for a full year. Apparently this is mostly down to the woman in charge here in Fethiye now and no longer gov't policy. Hopefully I will live long enough for them to sort it out. Still, better that freezing in the UK and dodging DNR orders and being denied treatment based on age, life expectancy and cost based on that. Too much, no treatment. I'd rather die in the sun. '-)
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I have emailed you shutterbug.
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I have state pension and my cover is ok with Bagkur
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According to the UK Consul, everything has been sorted and we should be able to start making premium pmts and carry on. HOWEVER, last week and this I keep getting the story that they can't get the payment screen up. when they do they will give me a letter for may bank. So, going down tomorrow with my insurance agent and a translator after we speak to Izmir again. Will keep you posted.
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Can I ask why they will give you a letter for your bank. What is the letter for?.
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For a direct debit. REstart premiums.
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We pay ours monthly over the counter in the Ziraat bank. Adds a little excitement each month as we hand over the dosh and wait for it to be accepted and the receipt shoved into our sticky little mitts!
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As I understand it you can only pay it at a Turkish Bank . We pay ours at Yakif Bank.
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Yes, that may be true. I used to give it tomy insurance agent and he took care of it. He did go to their bank as I recall now, but I do know people who have the direct debit paid to the Turkish bank...I think. ;-)
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You can also pay it at the PTT, I got fed up of the queues in Ziraat and was told that the PTT could do it so I paid last month at the Uzumlu PTT and it went through no problem. I just gave him one of my old receipts and he sorted it, just make sure you check the details on the receipt he gives you to make sure it went through ok. Phil
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Well guess what? I am told that even though I was refused my october pmt, and told that I had no cover any longer because of the OAP pension from the UK, sent a letter telling me I had to have the letter from NHS in Nov to qualify, I am told today that they never cancelled my account and now I have to pay 989tl for missed payments which they would not take + interest. I spent the entire day with the agt, went to the SGGK office. So, tomorrow I will call Willy and see what he says. If I have to pay it, I will sue the gov't to get it back. AND, I am not the only one. A whole bunch of us apparently. So watch this space!.
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Same thing happened to us back in Feb- Mar - Apr. We were told we weren't insured, we were told we should stop the payments. Then when we finally got it all sorted out, we had to pay over 700TL in back payments for a time that we weren't covered. Its disgusting the way they treat people.
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And how did you get it sorted out? why was is stopped at that time?
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How did we sort it out? We paid up, reluctantly. Reason for the problem? We were told there had been a lot of expats joining the system.
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This morning I was told that new subscribers must have a medical check and no pre existing conditions will be covered. S...! Sooo sell something and pay the money I guess. Friends in SGK office say they were refused the form to fill in to join. did we all fall down a rabbit hole? ;-)))
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Interesting article in the paper.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/19669764.asp
If you have lived in Turkey continuously for 12 months or longer, it looks like you have to register for the scheme by the end of the month or pay a fine of 886tl.
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Originally posted by shutterbug
This morning I was told that new subscribers must have a medical check and no pre existing conditions will be covered. S...! Sooo sell something and pay the money I guess. Friends in SGK office say they were refused the form to fill in to join. did we all fall down a rabbit hole? ;-)))
[/quote
Who provided the information that pre-existing conditions were not covered?
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I have just read the letter that apparently will be sent to foreign residents that have been living for more than one year in Turkey.
There is a phrase "ilgili bulundugunuz ülke mevzuat kapsaminda sigortali degilseniz..." and I think that it might be the most important bit.
It says that if you are not insured in your own country, you have to apply to SSK within one month.
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@Jonuzumlu, in the letter it states that medical conditions won't be covered. It doesn't say anything about a medical check up.
By the way, when I had myself registered on my husbands bagkur, I had to tick a box that I didn't have any pre existing illnesses.
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Only in Turkey - a scheme you are allowed to join, then not allowed to join, then better join if you don't want to be fined.
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Spot on Scunner
Don't we just love this country? :D
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For some reason yes ;)
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Does this mean if you hold an RP regardless of how long you spend out there you must join the scheme? Sorry if its dumb question but I am just not sure exactly what they mean by ' living there for a year or more" - continuously there or having permission to do so. Thanks.
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Good question.
In the letter the wording is "T.C. içişleri Bakanligi Emniyet Genel Müdürlügü'nden alinan kayitlara göre ülkemizde kesintisiz bir yildan fazla ikamet ettiginiz tespit edilmiştir".
If you translate this, it means: According to the records received from the Emniyet Genel Müdürlügü, you have been a resident in our country for more than one year uninterrupted.
It comes down to semantics and I guess that maybe a lawyer might know what is considered "ikamet etmek".
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Dutchie is the Emniyet Genel Mudurlugu connected to RP issue info or in/ out stamp sat the airport info- I am still trying to work out if its literally 12 months continuous living there or simply permission to do so (holding an RP)
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I have googled it quickly and it says on the net that the passport control in the airport is part of the Emniyet Genel Mudurlugu.
The foreign police department where you get your RP also belongs to the Emniyet Genel Mudurlugu so that doesn't clarify the matter.
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Thanks for your help Dutch I appreciate it
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Personally I don't think that it will be a major issue.
If you're not interested in having SSK, can't you just say that you're insured in the UK?
What would they know...
By the way, it says in the Hurriyet that the letters haven't been sent yet. So maybe they won't be sent at all :P
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Has anyone sought clarification form the british embassy
or have contact details
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We also could not have existing medical conditions on our Bagkur/SGK when we joined . Also we had to be resident in Turkey for 1 Year without breaks to UK before we could join. We got existing medical conditions added after seeing a doctor at Esnaf and getting tests done to prove hubby still had them.Doctor sent report to Ankara and they agreed to addd them to our Bagkur and now we get his medication free for existing medical ailments. Just for info our Bagkur has just gone up to 285tl per month for the 2 of us.Worth it as medication is 140tl per month.
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Having a resident permit for more than a year is what they have been saying from the beginning. I signed up in 2010 when it first was available. I was the first in Mugla I believe. Took forever for everyone to get on the same page, but no pre existing problems, no medical etc. You always have to have a report for ongoing problems and free meds, and it depends on the level of the Dr here if he can get it or if you have to go to the university. My BP report came from Esnaf Cardiologist, and I had to go to Antalaya for the neuropathy because the med is not originally designed for that use. Prof Dr had to sign the report.
that was an amazing experience...15 min wait to see the assistant, 10 minute basic check, and another 10 ot get it signed, then to another partof the hosp for a stamp and I was out in an hour. Awesome! Not so awesome when suddenly it stopped in Oct when they refused pymt. They did NOT however, close my account, so I guess I will pay the back pmts and restart my original policy again. All this stuff was diagnosed here, but God knows if that will make a difference. Not willing to chance it. Will see what Willy says on Monday, but meantime, taking some gold to the jewelers for valuation today. ANd I have been paying 204 just for me. My income, which would give me benefits in the UK, is all I have!¬
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If you are resident here you have NO cover in the UK and they both know it! You will be charged in the UK, or put on visitor visa here I'll bet. Also an artical in the Hurriyet Daily News that people who live abroad and rent their houses for holidays and do not pay tax are going to be in trouble. Sounds more and more like the UK doesn't it? That's EU influence thank you very much, but probably fair.
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You can call Ahmet at the Fethiye office or go and see him, or the Izmir Consulate which is in charge of health care for UK citizens nationwide. Sir Wm Buttigeg MBE is the one you want to talk to. 0232 4635 151 ext 120 or 121. He is really busy and hard to reach sometimes. Google the website and send him an email. Really nice and very helpful. He is the one who negotiated the one letter for all for us instead of each having one from NHS.
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quote:
Originally posted by jonuzumlu
Originally posted by shutterbug
This morning I was told that new subscribers must have a medical check and no pre existing conditions will be covered. S...! Sooo sell something and pay the money I guess. Friends in SGK office say they were refused the form to fill in to join. did we all fall down a rabbit hole? ;-)))
[/quote
Who provided the information that pre-existing conditions were not covered?
British Consul in Fethiye.
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quote:
Originally posted by shutterbug
I signed up in 2010 when it first was available. I was the first in Mugla I believe.
Bag Kur was made available to foreigners in November 2008. I know of two couples who have had it since early 2009. They both live in the Mugla area.
I think its a great shame that STILL things aren't settled (it seems). :-\
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
Dutchie is the Emniyet Genel Mudurlugu connected to RP issue info or in/ out stamp sat the airport info- I am still trying to work out if its literally 12 months continuous living there or simply permission to do so (holding an RP)
You must show your residence permit and the policy (health) expires with the expiry date on your passport. Same day. Which is why you reapply a couple -3 weeks before it expires. That book is really more important than your pp for many things here. It only costs 149tl now per year.
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i am paying sgk went to letoon thursday and friday no problem i was on the system went to get tablets from the chemistsi hour later and i am no longer on the system, any ideas why??
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quote:
Originally posted by pegleg
i am paying sgk went to letoon thursday and friday no problem i was on the system went to get tablets from the chemistsi hour later and i am no longer on the system, any ideas why??
Good question. Call Willy or Ahmet first thing on Monday. Is your payment by direct debit? Mine was not, my ins agent kindly did it for me at the bank. They stopped my access and returned the money, but did not close the account. Very important to get it sorted. Don't want to have to start over with the new one.
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I do not understand this at all can some tell me ,how much do a couple pay each month ,do they have to pay ,how will anyone know if you haven't paid ,who fines you ,i know there is the web site but i cannot translate it ,my p.c. wont do it ,i did hear it was about 400tl a month if this is so how can people afford it ,dont think they want the Brits here anymore .[:(!]
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quote:
Originally posted by lance
I do not understand this at all can some tell me ,how much do a couple pay each month ,do they have to pay ,how will anyone know if you haven't paid ,who fines you ,i know there is the web site but i cannot translate it ,my p.c. wont do it ,i did hear it was about 400tl a month if this is so how can people afford it ,dont think they want the Brits here anymore .[:(!]
We pay 285TL a month. The Bag Kur is in my husband'd name and I am added on to it. From what I can gather talking to Turkish friends who are married and in work, they pay the same.
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I am doing Scunner Health Insurance now - so you can take that out and I'll send you an insurance certificate to prove you don't need this Turkish one. Sadly it doesn't cover pre-existing medical conditions. Or any that aren't pre-existing. But it's only fifty quid a year!
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I phoned the consular office in Fethiye today.
I was told anyone who has residencey for more than one year and has not registered at the SGK office by 31st Jan this year will be fined (approx 880tl)
he also said it did not matter if you had private cover you still have to register, that it was 203tl for a household ie husband and wife and children.
Mark
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Well when it is all said and done, the medical care here is so much faster and better, the hospitals cleaner and after all, that's only about £60 per month. BUPA quoted me £800 per month and no pre existing. Makes this a bargain...even if I do have to pay for months I didn't have cover. I was due for out-patient surgery at AK Deniz,which I had to cancel. It was going to cost me 12tl for the x-rays, ekg and blood tests. that's it. The petrol to get there cost more. Also, it is not just foreigners this new rule is for, it is also for Turks who haven't signed up. Looks to me like they are getting organized and probably about time. We just hit the mid-change chaos.
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quote:
Originally posted by karaokemark
I phoned the consular office in Fethiye today.
I was told anyone who has residencey for more than one year and has not registered at the SGK office by 31st Jan this year will be fined (approx 880tl)
he also said it did not matter if you had private cover you still have to register, that it was 203tl for a household ie husband and wife and children.
Mark
Mark when you say ' has residency'- do you understand this to mean live there or just have an RP for more than a year?
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Hi mark probably already on here somewhere,but where is the SGK office ??
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Originally posted by saoirse
Originally posted by karaokemark
I phoned the consular office in Fethiye today.
I was told anyone who has residencey for more than one year and has not registered at the SGK office by 31st Jan this year will be fined (approx 880tl)
he also said it did not matter if you had private cover you still have to register, that it was 203tl for a household ie husband and wife and children.
Mark
[He just said if you have residencey for more than a year, he did not mention living here.
Mark
/quote
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Thanks Mark. So the name of the game is take an RP for 1 year at a time.
It does all still seem very confusing as on another forum it was stated letters had been issued and the letters stated both that the 1 year term was continuous living there AND that if the person had their own they did not need the Turkish one.
This would make more sense to me as its possible to hold an RP and still be fully on NHS books back home so what need would there be for Turkish cover ( trav ins whilst there)
Curiouser and curiouser!!
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In the letter it states very clearly that the SGK insurance is only mandatory if you don't have any insurance in your own country and it states a term of 1 year residency. The question remains whether this means a one year rp (but not living full time in Turkey) or that it means a one year rp with continous living in Turkey.
If you do have insurance in your own country, the SGK is not mandatory.
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Dutchie you have the patience of a Saint I appreciate your help..
So as an.RP holder I assume I will be issued a letter. Is it then my requirement on receipt of the letter to go to them and show my travel insurance. Thanks again.
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No worries, I've got nothing else to do :D
I assume that going to the SGK office will be the smartest thing to do.
However, I don't know whether a travel insurance will be good enough to show.
Don't you have any registration papers from NHS?
By the way, the SGK office is on the road to Kipa. About 150 metres after the Mugla Makasi (the Mugla junction) towards Calis on the left hand side.
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According to the newspaper article and the letter, you can be fined if you don't get it fixed before January 31st.
Personally I wouldn't wait for the letter to arrive but just go to the SGK before then.
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I assumed it would be the travel insurance ( long term) as thats what covers me when in Turkey not NHS cover
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You've got a point there.
However in the letter they mention a medical insurance in your home country.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
According to the newspaper article and the letter, you can be fined if you don't get it fixed before January 31st.
Personally I wouldn't wait for the letter to arrive but just go to the SGK before then.
Again for people like me who dont even live in Turkey this is impossible!
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What I fail to understand is why the embassy has nothing
on its website, what are all these highly paid civil
servants doing for their money, they ask for expats to
register with them, surely a blanket email would be something
or at least the latest information on their website which has'nt
been updated since 27 Sep 2010, If they can give verbal
info surely they have a duty to update the website.
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@Saoirse
They probably hadn't thought about that.
And like I wrote before, it will come down to semantics.
It is written everywhere that the rule affects foreigners with a one year residence permit but that's not what written in the letter.
They use the words "having residence/being a resident for more than one year uninterrupted".
The word residence permit is not being used.
Maybe they mean foreigners who have been in Turkey for more than year without having left the country [?]
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Possibly Dutchie- certainly the term uninterrupted would suggest actually living there for a year as opposed to just holding an RP. Thanks for your help
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quote:
Originally posted by wallace
What I fail to understand is why the embassy has nothing
on its website, what are all these highly paid civil
servants doing for their money, they ask for expats to
register with them, surely a blanket email would be something
or at least the latest information on their website which has'nt
been updated since 27 Sep 2010, If they can give verbal
info surely they have a duty to update the website.
I agree with your comments about the website although I guess even they are stuck in this guessing game with ever moving goal posts and until there is some level of certainty and confirmation of implementation dates they are being cautious. There can be no room for error on their website so presumably they are as cautious as the rest of us.
I would like to express my thanks and gratitude to Willy Buttigieg at the Consulate in Izmir. He has worked tirelessly on our behalf to get this issue resolved and has made representations to and about the Manager of the SGK office in Fethiye who appears to have made one or two unilateral decisions about eligibility.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
True, you can do that, but it is not legal in the UK. If you are out of the country for 6 months in a year, anywhere, even on holiday, you lose your rights to all benefits including NHS.
AND there have been too many people here relying on that who have become very ill and had to have treatment here, lost everything, gone back and then been handed a big bill by the hospital in the UK when they left...or family had if they died. One of the reasons for this change here.
This would make more sense to me as its possible to hold an RP and still be fully on NHS books back home so what need would there be for Turkish cover ( trav ins whilst there)
Curiouser and curiouser!!
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You cannot rely on travel insurance in the country where you reside. If you have a residence permit, you reside in that country.
The UK gov't stopped paying my state retirement from the UK until I signed a 'life certificate' stating that I lived in Turkey. It took 3 months of wrong information from the office, calls from supervisors, all telling me things that were not true. Finally I got the paper and signed it and faxed it back. THEN I got my money. At which point I decided to have it deposited here. Another 3 months to work out how to do an international transfer of funds. Now if the British Gov't is that difficult, don't' be surprised at the confusion here.
It's all about bureaucracy. All governments have it and they all screw things up. It is a universal issue.
And even if you got away with the 'I've got travel insurance and a resident permit here, your claim would be inspected and denied if you had to use it. I know, I used to sell the stuff. quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
I assumed it would be the travel insurance ( long term) as thats what covers me when in Turkey not NHS cover
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What is the procedure at the SSK office?
Do they give you a form to fill in and what documents must you show?
Thanks in advance.
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I dont agree.
I dont live in Turkey. Are you seriously telling me that if I go on holiday or ' backpacking' as the insurers ofen call their long term trav insurance, for say 13 weeks I am no longer counted as resident here at home?
If thats the case why do they sell ' long stay' travel insurance? I do not live in Turkey- spend no more than 5 months there a year.
If the letters as I have been told state '1 year uninterrupted' in Turkey I would suggest my 5 months max there is not included
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If you are not "full time" in Turkey you would be covered by the NHS, if you are not covered by the NHS (or private insurance) then you will need to pay. That's the way I see it
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Yes Barry but is that how the Turkish Authority see it, and what would they classify as a unbroken year, the NHS rules state to be entitled to free NHS treatment you must not have been out of the UK for 2 months continuous. Guess it is probably best to wait for these letters they are sending to all of us as it is clear they should be here like yesterday if this starts from the 1st Feb, no chance!:-\
Reading on here and the articles and the British Consulate it is clear this is a total mix up AGAIN for right and wrong, SGK office will tell you to sign up regardless, Passport police don't want proof, and just to ice it they threaten you with a fine, even though we have not recieved a letter, nor until yesterday via a call from the Bank of all places were we aware that this may or may not be compulsary and starts 1st Feb.Jez I think I need medical treatment just getting my head around all this!![:(!]
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People seem to be concentrating on the 12 month bit without considering the, not covered by own countries/private cover, bit, if you are not covered, you NEED cover. What's so complicated??
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So what exactly do we get for the medical insurance? Is that known?
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quote:
Originally posted by Diverbaz 1
People seem to be concentrating on the 12 month bit without considering the, not covered by own countries/private cover, bit, if you are not covered, you NEED cover. What's so complicated??
Precisely!
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http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-turkey/
Oh now the info has changed, it was about the delaying of compulsory healthcare till December 2012, I wish I had copied and pasted it now....:-\
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Does anyone know A) What documents you need to take to register? and B) how much a single person pays?
Thank you
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postponed til December 2012
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-turkey/health-insurance
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That link isn't working for me Linda, but if it is the one I think it is, it is dated August last year and also states it has not been agreed by the Turkish authorities.
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It was working earlier and has now been pulled by the look of it - too much CBF traffic heading that way. I think it said you are allowed to be ill for a maximum of 90 days in any 180 day period. Anyone being ill longer will be fined 810 TL and have to queue up for an MOT and a pipe up their exhaust.
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I got on the link earlier it was the same mesaage Baz but updated 17th Jan. 2pm
Mark
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The site had been updated Mark regarding RP's, not the heath insurance bit.
You can get to the site via Rindaloo's link, but no mention now of healthcare anywhere, even more in the dark now!!
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The message Linda posted was the same one from Sep 2010 saying it was delayed till dec 12 the onlt thing they changed was the date, it was health cover not RP. I looked a few mins after Linda posted but it as gone now
Mark
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Our Turkish friend has been today to sort out his own health sigorta because apparantly the rules have changed for him. He asked his company about our situation and was told if we didnt sign up before the end of this month then we will be fined 800TL!!
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I am wondering how we are going to officially be informed of this. Or is the Government relying on expats finding out this information via expat forums???
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I had a look as well and it said that it the Ministry of Health had verbally informed that there was a proposal to postpone the new health insurance changes until December 2012. The law had to be approved by parliament though.
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Thanks for that Dutchie, that is the message originally available on the link I'd posted.
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True. I had clicked from your link.
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There must be hundreds if not thousands living here who don't read forums. So my thinking is - if they can't find you (or can't be a*s*d) to inform you personally that you HAVE to join this scheme - how are they going to find you to fine you if you don't. Just a thought.
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By going through the list of residency permit holders, complete with addresses, bank account details and the like. As with the speeding fines topic, it is not a place where you are told what needs to be done - that is considered your responsibility to make yourself aware of. You are however eventually informed that you didn't do something you needed to and as a result have a fine to pay.
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Or when you do have to go to the hospital or get a prescription filled and don't have it. When I asked my chemist to run my number through his computer, when they were telling me they couldn't get the payment screen on their computers at the SGK office, it came up with a 'debt owing' in red and a block on cover. He had a fit when I told him what happened.
today I paid the 968tl for back payments which they had refused to accept, at Zikkat bank. Only gov't banks will do it and after he took the pmt, and I left, he called and asked me to come back. He had called Mugla and was told to do it online, which he did and I have the reciept. He said I should be able to use it tomorrow. I did not have to go back to the SGK office.
Willy told me that the Director General in Ankara personally apologized to me for this because it was their mistake, but the way the law reads, I still have to pay. Good for me because no issues with pre-existing.
quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
By going through the list of residency permit holders, complete with addresses, bank account details and the like. As with the speeding fines topic, it is not a place where you are told what needs to be done - that is considered your responsibility to make yourself aware of. You are however eventually informed that you didn't do something you needed to and as a result have a fine to pay.
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Sounds about right Scunner:
This is an extract from the Consular Website...
"The two sides also agreed that we would explore healthcare options for British nationals resident in Turkey on the basis of reciprocity, considering what is available to Turkish nationals legally resident in the UK."
Reciprocity being the operative word here - what IS available to Turkish nationals resident in the UK and has anything been "explored" yet.
Oh and just in case where is the SGK office in Fethiye?
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
By the way, the SGK office is on the road to Kipa. About 150 metres after the Mugla Makasi (the Mugla junction) towards Calis on the left hand side.
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And only one of the men behind the counter speaks English. The manager does not.
ALthough I paid up the 968TL for the months they refused to take my payment, and Mugla knows that,
the manager here says that they are changing the computer software, so I will have to wait to have
my cover restored! Back to Willy today I guess. Ahmet has done all he can.
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Just returned from the SGK office in Fethiye where I was informed it IS compulsory to fill in the forms and you need a photocopy of your passport and your visa .The pages with your photograph on.If you hold a residency visa then it applies to you .Then you have to get an official notice from UK to say you are not receiving any health insurance from the government ie National Health . They dont expect you to be able to provide this form at the same time as you are registering .It can be done at a later date. IF you have a private health scheme from UK you still have to register here then you can opt outof the Turkish scheme once they have all the details . If you don't have proof then you are obliged by Turkish law to pay for insurance here. IF you dont register by the end of this month you will be fined but also will be put on the highest rate of charges . The place was packed with Turkish people all registering.No payment is required when you register.When you do eventually get the required paper from UK it has to be officially translated into Turkish .Not sure where to get the official paper from UK though. Any Ideas anyone
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Hubbles I assume all this only applies if you have been resident for a year or more- people can be RP holders and only stay in Turkey 4/5 months. Thanks
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If you took residency for 11 months each time, would that be you out of all this?
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Am thinking that myself Scunner. But as the legislation says 1 year uninterrupted I am hoping us p/t in Turkey RP holders are ok
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We need our Dutchie :D
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This article in todays Bodrum Bulletin would appear to suggest that anyone who holds an RP for a year or more must pay into the scheme regardless of how long they spend in Turkey.
http://www.bodrumbulletin.com/community/useful-information/623-universal-health-insurance-in-turkey
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
This article in todays Bodrum Bulletin would appear to suggest that anyone who holds an RP for a year or more must pay into the scheme regardless of how long they spend in Turkey.
http://www.bodrumbulletin.com/community/useful-information/623-universal-health-insurance-in-turkey
Part of the article says.....
you must not be entitled to health cover in your home country (e.g. you no longer have an entitlement to NHS in the UK)
If you do not live here in Turkey then you still have entitlement to UK health Service then it doesn't apply to you.
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No Firo. If you look at the 4 questions to answer section to see if you must pay it states specifically if you are out of UK for 3 months or more you are not covered by NHS.
http://www.bodrumbulletin.com/community/useful-information/901-universal-health-insurance-update
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I would put money on the fact that they cannot make anyone who does not reside in Turkey join a Health care system when you can still get UK HEalth Care because as soon as you land back in the UK with a permanent address there you are entitled to UK Health care again. Most Health services in the UK do not adhere to the 3 month rule and in fact we have heard that it's 6 months now or going to be very soon. Also if people come here on a 3/6 month holiday, whilst holding a RP (because of the 90/180 visa ), then they would have travel insurance to cover them which would have been issued in the UK (because that's where you still reside)?
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I agree entirely Firo. Thats exactly what I do- use an RP for my 5 months there and have long stay health insurance. However going by this article and tbe 4 question test I would be obliged to pay. I am def only taking a 6 month RP from now on!
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To me it seems that Scunner came up with a good solution.
If they really take the residence permit in account and not the actual residency, then an 11 month permit seems to be the answer.
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Maybe all CBF members who need to register, should go all together to the SGK.
I would like to see the look of panic on their faces with so many foreigners standing in front of them :D
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Yip Dutchie I will def take a shorter one from now on. Looks like I will still be fined though as I am not out there in time to register.
Still cant bloody fathom that I dont live in Turkey but will be forced to pay into their health system
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If you want I can pop into them tomorrow and ask what happens if somebody wants to register but isn't in Turkey at the moment.
I don't think you will need to pay though but you might get fined if you don't register (as somebody wrote on the previous page).
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no dutchie - his best idea was the scunner private health plan!!!
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Do you reckon?
I've got one of offer for 45 pounds...:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
If you want I can pop into them tomorrow and ask what happens if somebody wants to register but isn't in Turkey at the moment.
I don't think you will need to pay though but you might get fined if you don't register (as somebody wrote on the previous page).
Thanks Dutchie. It seems I will have to pay if its length of RP as opposed to actual time in country
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You will probably find that most non Turikish citizens here will wait till something far more clear has been decided by both the Turkish and other governments, then clarified in some form that everyone understands in full, rather than going by what the local SGK office says. There are far too many people who have heard this or that, or read something somewhere and many reports differ, at the moment, nothing is clear.
quote:
Originally posted by hubblebubbles
Just returned from the SGK office in Fethiye where I was informed it IS compulsory to fill in the forms and you need a photocopy of your passport and your visa .The pages with your photograph on.If you hold a residency visa then it applies to you .Then you have to get an official notice from UK to say you are not receiving any health insurance from the government ie National Health . They dont expect you to be able to provide this form at the same time as you are registering .It can be done at a later date. IF you have a private health scheme from UK you still have to register here then you can opt outof the Turkish scheme once they have all the details . If you don't have proof then you are obliged by Turkish law to pay for insurance here. IF you dont register by the end of this month you will be fined but also will be put on the highest rate of charges . The place was packed with Turkish people all registering.No payment is required when you register.When you do eventually get the required paper from UK it has to be officially translated into Turkish .Not sure where to get the official paper from UK though. Any Ideas anyone
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
If you want I can pop into them tomorrow and ask what happens if somebody wants to register but isn't in Turkey at the moment.
I don't think you will need to pay though but you might get fined if you don't register (as somebody wrote on the previous page).
Thanks Dutchie. It seems I will have to pay if its length of RP as opposed to actual time in country
You won't need to pay since you are covered by NHS. It stated very clearly that only people who don't have a medical insurance in their homecountry have to take an SGK insurance.
If what Hubblebubble says is correct, then you might need to pay the fine.
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Remember the mention of unbroken 1 years residency to qualify? Well if you are only here 5 months in a year then it's well and truly broken!..lol
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Thats what I thought Fi but apparently leaving the country doesnt break it- its the time you are holding an RP not residing in Turkey
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I just thought of something else.
In the original law article to which they refer in the letter, they following phrase is being used:
Mütekabiliyet esasi da dikkate alinmak şartiyla, oturma izni almiş yabanci ülke vatandaşlarindan yabanci bir ülke mevzuati kapsaminda sigortali olmayan kişiler.
Translated:
With the reciprocity principle taken into consideration, foreigners with residence permits who are not insured under the legislation of a foreign country.
Maybe UK citizens might get away with the reciprocity principle.
All Dutch (living in the Netherlands) have to pay monthly for a mandatory health insurance.
For Turks living in the Netherlands on a residence permit, this insurance is mandatory as well and they have to pay on a monthly basis.
UK citizens don't pay for NHS and according to a quick Google, it seems that foreigners living with a residence permit for longer than 1 year in the UK don't have to pay for the NHS either.
This would mean that the reciprocity principle does not apply to UK citizens (whereas it would apply to Dutch).
Or do I understand the situation incorrectly?
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http://www.landoflights.net/information/information-for-sgk-and-visa-6054.html#.Txh4kMeHHpE.facebook
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Land of Lights have now published the following:
http://www.landoflights.net/information/information-for-sgk-and-visa-6054.html#.Txh43Jxmat0.facebook
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SNAP!
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UK citizens don't pay for NHS
[/quote]Really [?] so who pays for it then[?]
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I meant to say that UK citizens don't pay a fixed fee on a monthly basis.
Or do they?
I was under the impression that NHS is being funded by tax money (which is of course paid by UK citizens bla bla bla).
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THAT'S RIGHT, AND IF YOU ARE OUT OF THE uk FOR 6 MONTHS IN A YEAR...NOT CONSECUTIVELY, OR HAVE A RESIDENCE PERMIT ANYWHERE, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO NHS. Our colsul in Izmir, negotiated a single letter to that effect for all Brits who have residence here. Call him and see. Health issues for all UK nationals in Turkey are his responsibility.
quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
I meant to say that UK citizens don't pay a fixed fee on a monthly basis.
Or do they?
I was under the impression that NHS is being funded by tax money (which is of course paid by UK citizens bla bla bla).
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And no. We have never paid a premium for health care in the UK. That program came out of the Labour party's socialistic idea that everyone is entitled to free health care, just like free education. Tax money, not insurance premium. European countries, like Germany for instance, still charge their people an insurance premium even when they are 80 and on OAP. And Turkish citizens are entitled to Turkish health cover anywhere in the world, therefore they assumed that the UK would be the same.
quote:
Originally posted by shutterbug
THAT'S RIGHT, AND IF YOU ARE OUT OF THE uk FOR 6 MONTHS IN A YEAR...NOT CONSECUTIVELY, OR HAVE A RESIDENCE PERMIT ANYWHERE, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO NHS. Our colsul in Izmir, negotiated a single letter to that effect for all Brits who have residence here. Call him and see. Health issues for all UK nationals in Turkey are his responsibility.
quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
I meant to say that UK citizens don't pay a fixed fee on a monthly basis.
Or do they?
I was under the impression that NHS is being funded by tax money (which is of course paid by UK citizens bla bla bla).
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Reading most of the comments on here there is an assumption if you are out of the UK for less than 6 months you are covered by the NHS. It seems that everyone assumes that any illness they get that they can jump on a plane and fly back to the UK. Life is not like that, most illnesses are those that seem to happen immediately. Illnesses like a stroke or a heart attack need vital medical treatment immediately. The NHS does not cover you in Turkey and that is why you are told to ensure that you have adequate travel insurance.Repatriation to the UK in these circumstances are your responsibility.
So do not get blinkered with the fact that you do not live in Turkey and do not meet the requirements of the Turkish system that you are covered by the NHS. It is your responsibility to have adequate insurance.
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I thought it was 3 months not 6
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quote:
Originally posted by shutterbug
THAT'S RIGHT, AND IF YOU ARE OUT OF THE uk FOR 6 MONTHS IN A YEAR...NOT CONSECUTIVELY, OR HAVE A RESIDENCE PERMIT ANYWHERE, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO NHS. Our colsul in Izmir, negotiated a single letter to that effect for all Brits who have residence here. Call him and see. Health issues for all UK nationals in Turkey are his responsibility.
quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
I meant to say that UK citizens don't pay a fixed fee on a monthly basis.
Or do they?
I was under the impression that NHS is being funded by tax money (which is of course paid by UK citizens bla bla bla).
People using "reply with quote" are making this topic very difficult to read now. There is no need to quote the person above you. Just use quick reply, what they said will still be above you, just not 4 times in a row!!! :)
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My apologies you are right it is 3 months.The information I saw on UK government websites made reference to 3 in 12 months. In theory if you go for 2 lots of 90 days in Turkey you would need to register again.
The issue is once you leave the UK even on holiday you are not automatically entitled to free healthcare. Free emergency healthcare is only available within the EEA and Turkey is not part of the area. All other costs outside of emergency treatment are the individuals responsibility and it is your resonsibility to be able to pay them.
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I thought that National Insurance (NI)contributions were originally set up for Healthcare and pension provision. As the cost of these services have spiraled upwards over the years Income Tax makes up the shortfall from NI. In Turkey the proposal seems to be a single fixed sum every month to be paid by a family and all registered members of that family will be entitled to healthcare. If the contribution is means tested it will still be a fixed amount. In the UK the contribution to National Insurance and Income Tax is a percentage of salary by ALL working members of a family provided they earn over their personal allowance.
At this time Ex-pats living anywhere in the world are not automatically entitled to NHS care if they have been out of the UK for more than 3 months. However, If you are in the UK on a visit and fall ill whilst there then emergency healthcare should be provided free of charge. The decision to charge or not is at the discretion of the local health authority.
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Don't forget in addition to NI contributions in the UK the majority of those living in England who worked are also charged a substantial sum for items on a prescription - in excess of £7 each item.
National Insurance contributions are not negotiable - other than a reduced contribution rate if you are in a private pension scheme. If however you choose, or your employer provides, private health care you still have to pay towards the NHS. Ahmet drew a similar comparison when I went with a friend into the Consulate Office in Fethiye the other day. He said he has private medical insurance but still has to pay Bag Kur.
Yes, it is 3 months out of the UK as we found when we had a letter from our GP telling us they were removing us from their lists as they believed we were now residing outside of the UK.
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Private healthcare which is ,paid for by the employer is seen by the inland revenue as unearned income so they will tax you at your current rate on how much your employer is paying for your premium. Opting out of SERPS or the State Second Pension, as it is known now, does not reduce your contribution as far as I am aware but that portion of your contribution is paid to the Private Pension provider thus improving your benefit when you retire. Taking this route will affect how much you would receive from the State Second pension on retirement. For most of us there is an age when when it is no longer beneficial to stay opted out but you should consult an independent Financial Advisor, (IFA) to ensure you are making the correct decision.
I think the UK system is complicated and most of us will find it very difficult to fully understand it. The system in Turkey whilst littered with burocracy seems to be a simpler system to use. The question now is Will the Turkish SGK people find a fair way to impose the rules on those of you that do not or need to join it. It is quite unfair to fine people who through no fault of their own cannot meet the current deadline of 31st January. I wonder if this will be shelved yet again whilst they sort it out properly.
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Any Brit living outside the uk for more than three months and returns home may still have a right to the nhs and the benfit system if they are able to prove habitual residency. Where habitual residency is concerned you can come back and make a claim say after you have been back for three months as this then gives you habitual residency in the uk.A simple thing such as a libary card or a members card at your local pool,gym etc I A refusal on habitual residency is very hard to do and of course can be appealed.
I was involved in a case about six months ago where an elderly Indian man and his wife went back to India for eight years due to poor health reasons and the doctor had advised he needed a warmer climate.he was receiving his state pension all the years he was away. Once back in the uk his benefits were cut to half and he had to prove habitual residency which he did through us at the citizens advice.
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I spoke with Birsen Hanim - the Director of SGK Fethiye - this morning and she was really friendly and helpful.
This is what she said about the subject:
Q: Who need to register at the SGK office?
A: All foreigners with a residence permit who have stayed longer than one year.
Q: If somebody has a one year residence permit and is at the moment for example in its four month?
A: No, they don't need to register since they haven't stayed longer than one year yet.
Q: If somebody has a six month residence permit but had a one year residence permit before that?
A: They won't need to register since we don't look at previous residence permits.
Q: Do you take in consideration the amount of time that people are actually staying in Turkey?
A (after having called the head office): No, we won't be checking passports to see how long they are actually staying. Anybody with a residence permit that has stayed longer than one year, needs to register.
Q: What happens if people don't register:
A: If they don't register before January 31st, they will be fined (note: I didn't have pen and paper with me and can't recall the exact figure but it was around 800 TL).
Q: What happens to foreigners who are currently not in Turkey and won't be able to come before January 31st?
A: Nothing has been said about that officially but I assume that there won't be any problems as long as they register after their return to Turkey and when they show the stamps in their passport.
Q: What if foreigners can proof that they have a health insurance in their home country?
A: They need to show an official translation of their social security status and it has to show that they will be covered in Turkey.
Q: How about foreigners with a private Turkish health insurance?
A: They still need to register and have a SGK insurance.
Q: What will the SGK insurance cover?
A: It will have the same coverage as it has for Turkish people but pre existing illnesses won't be covered.
Q: What is needed for registration?
A: Passport, residence permit and an official translation of marriage certificate for married couples. We also need an official translation of the Social Securiy status in their home country but since it is not realistic to expect that in such a short period of time, this can be brought later.
During the conversation, Birsen Hanim more or less contradicted herself.
I didn't point this out (since first of all it would be rude but secondly since I didn't want to point out the loopholes).
She said that foreigners with a one year residency permit need to register after they have stayed one year. But if the year isn't over yet, they don't need to register.
To me this sounds that nobody with a one year residency permit needs to register since you will always be within that one year (and they don't look at previous years).
It becomes a different story for people with residency permits longer than one year.
If you have an e.g. 3 year residency permit and more than one year has passed, you need to register.
I think this was more or less the whole conversation we had. If I think of anything else, I'll add it here.
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It looks very much like people are looking for loopholes to avoid having to pay for health cover, I wonder what loopholes they will try and find when they get ill and want the cover??
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Here,Here well said :D
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It's not so much the case that many people are looking for loopholes to avoid this insurance. Many ex pats here are young and in good health and may not have even needed a pharmacy in the time they have been here. We are all aware of the cost for hospital treatment IF it's needed, and I think many people here would rather chance and pay what may be the very occasional cost for this, rather than having to pay over a £1000 each year.
It seems to be that the best way round avoiding this insurance is simply to have a years residency, return to the uk for a holiday, as many do, and on their return, get a 3 month tourist visa. Once that is just about up, apply for a years residency and do the same each year.
That way, nobody can be accused of trying to avoid the insurance and people are keeping within the law (until the Turkish gov't try and change that!)
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Thanks for the info Dutchie.
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I hear what you are saying but on the other side of the coin if you have decided to move to another country on a long term basis it seems only fair that you pay for the services that the country affords you.If you have to have a document from the uk stating that you have access to the nhs here then it will be ok, this document will also stop people who are living out there on benefits and draining an already troubled system I do not see how they will be able to get it while on benefits saying that they are living in Turkey!!and I have a sneaky feeling the uk and Turkey will be discussing this as it is a way to catch benefit theives living abroad!
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http://www.landoflights.net/local-news/uncertainty-for-foreign-residents-as-turkish-health-insurance-deadline-looms-6058.html#.TxlmfuNNCkA.facebook
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We went this morning and had our marriage certificate translated and notarised, completed the SGK application form, paid all the notary fees etc and headed off to the SGK office in Fethiye to register. We were told we had all the correct documentation but unfortuately as our residency permit is due for renewal on the 1st March 2012, they would not register us, stating that you must have at least one full year left on your residency. We were told to come back in March after we have renewed our residency.
When asked about the 'fine' for not registering before the end of this month, we were told we would not be fined.
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dinger where did you go to get your licence translated and notarised and what did it cost.
thanks
Mark
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Was there no hassle about the computer not being available? I paid my 968tl for the months when they refused payment and didn't close my account, and am now told the system is being changed and so I still can't use it!
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quote:
Originally posted by dinger
... our residency permit is due for renewal on the 1st March 2012, they would not register us, stating that you must have at least one full year left on your residency. We were told to come back in March after we have renewed our residency.
When asked about the 'fine' for not registering before the end of this month, we were told we would not be fined.
Hmmm... interesting - ours expires in December, but I am quite happy to join, I wonder where we will stand? - Having at last found our marriage certificate (well hidden) - guess I'll find out on Monday. Did they provide anything in writing to say you'll not be fined, they you'd done your bit?
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so now they are saying you must have been here 1 year AND have a year left on residency? add that to the disparity on income required for residency and then saying we must all be assessed at a higher level - its getting crazier by the day. I accept that they do not recognise common law partnerships, but does nobody issue guidance from on high when these laws are passed?
I am totally clear on what the law says but local interpretations drive one as always to despair.
Lets hope the British embassy can come up with a definitive statement from their Turkish governmental contacts.
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They'd better do it soon, we're running out of time and we went to the office today in Fethiye and it was HEAVING.
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mark we are meeting Nikkie,'sunnyd'on monday to get our wedding cert done,maybe worth contacting her to see if she can manage more
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quote:
dinger where did you go to get your licence translated and notarised and what did it cost.
thanks
Mark
Sunnyd is doing ours Monday as well.
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I've just had another enquiry about translation of documents for the health care, so looks like I may be busy on Monday! If anyone wants to enquire about anything to do with the translation and notery side of things please just send me an email via my profile and I'll get back to you.
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Why oh Why are we going on and on about this? we heard last june no more visa hops now its no more after 1st feb, (nothing official yet) lets just see what they do, after all nothing happens till Yarin. ;)
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Mark, Ilkner (Rosy) done the translation at No4 Notar, the cost is around 64 lira but wait for it we were charged 127 lira because our marriage certificate is Scottish and we were told there was more information on it, what i dont know and to be honest i was so hacked off with it i couldnt be bothered arguing, so be warned if you are Scottish.
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Regarding what was said to us at the SGK office regarding the fine, we were told we would not be fined because our current Residency runs out in 6weeks and hence does not have one full year left on it therfore they cant fine us, they showed no interest at all that our previous Residency Permits covered a period of 4 years, the important thing appears to be that you have 1 full year or more left on your current RP
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Dinger I dread doing our marraige certificate translation as it's from Cuba! I can just see the problems and costs that will incur....lol.. I wonder if our UK Home office stamped translation will be used instead?...Thanks for the information.
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We have just read the article in the Fethiye Times regarding this insurance, we have lived here for 8 years and I have had a pacemaker fitted. This operation took place in Antalya 6 years ago, I have to have 6 monthly checkups, I also have numerouse tablets to take everyday. The amount I pay for my medication does not come anywhere near the monthly amount being asked for on this insurance and therefore we do not want to partake in this scheme but according to the article we would be fined if we did not join. Is it or is it not compulsory? joemerc
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I can fully understand so many people complaining about finding an extra couple of thousand TL to pay for this insurance but if you bring the reduced amount you now pay for your residency into the equation the deal does not seem quite so bad.
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I agree Brian. I think the main issue is the fact that, it seems the Turks have been told via the TV and Papers (this is what we were told today by a Turk). If this is the case, why on earth didn't the Consulate have something about it on their website? I don't know how long ago it was decided to have this push for expats and Turks alike to be compulsorily on SKG Healthcare, but we seem to have cottoned on very late in the day and how on earth are people going to set this up in time if they aren't in Turkey in the next few days? Also, some people aren't on the internet and are not up to speed with what's going on. It seems clumsy and brutal.
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It also perhaps seems calculating - reduce residency to a fraction of what it was, wait for people to jump in and take a number years - once caught, release the news relating to people with a year or more residency...
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I might agree with you but THAT tactic would require a cunning plan........ And I don't see much in the way planning, cunning or otherwise, in what has been going on in the past year or two with Bagkur.
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Apparently it had been decided and published in 2010 that these changes would be made.
I hadn't heard anything about it though.
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It was discused on this forum in August 2010 about the changes coming in (although the date given for impelementation was Oct 2010)and an article in Hurriet Daily News was attached.
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I find it incredible from what I am reading that I now have to find another £2000 a year for my partner and I to be able to stay in Turkey, as we are not married we have to pay double, I am guessing our daughter as she is under 3 will be tagged on one of the policies (unlike the resident permit). I moved to Turkey when this scheme was not on the horizon, so I knew if we need anything medical we pay private, I have no issue with this at all.We live here full time for 10 month's of the year, the rest back in the UK, so we also don't want to give up our NHS status either, we are also well under retirement age,and have no real income apart from interest payments therefore to have to now divert £2000 a year for something we don't want or need, means we will have to shorten our future in Turkey, is this what they really wanted to achieve!
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Do you have to go in person to register or can someone do it for you?
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Another point that has not been mentioned so much, is the 'pre-exsisitng condition'. It would seem that for many who have to take on this scheme would in effect be having to pay twice for possible hospital visits, tests, medication etc. For those it is also unfair, compulsory insurance, plus other costs they may already be paying for that will not be covered.
For those who are able to, I can see some people returning to the uk and returning here on 3 month tourist visas. I would imagine over this coming year, many ex pats will look closely at costs, savings etc and again where possible, spend less time in Turkey.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
Apparently it had been decided and published in 2010 that these changes would be made.
I hadn't heard anything about it though.
That's my point. Surely if the whole of Turkey including expats were going to be forced to have government healthcare, they would know the date it would be implemented. At THAT point, why wasn't the British Consulate informed? It could then have been put on the website and people would have been in the picture and preparing for it, sooner. Is that the SGK's failing or the Consulate?
PS, yes it was talked about in 2010 and a lot of people knew bout it, then it was shelved. But suddenly its right upon us and we didn't know about it till last minute.
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i have been living here for 8 years now had a pacemaker fitted here paid privately go to antalia every6 months have to pay to have itmonitored i pay for my tablets about 60 lira a month so now i have to have insurrance of 250 a month to get half of my tablets that sounds a good deal for turkey i am 75 years old a third of my life paying uk national insurance at sixty five get free medical in uk now i have to start paying again compaired this to turkish people going to uk to live they get free hospital treatement if they are out of work get the right to sign on the dole get housing help ect ect so why cant we just register and continue to pay privately or have the choice
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quote:
Originally posted by corbindallas
I find it incredible from what I am reading that I now have to find another £2000 a year for my partner and I to be able to stay in Turkey, as we are not married we have to pay double, I am guessing our daughter as she is under 3 will be tagged on one of the policies (unlike the resident permit). I moved to Turkey when this scheme was not on the horizon, so I knew if we need anything medical we pay private, I have no issue with this at all.We live here full time for 10 month's of the year, the rest back in the UK, so we also don't want to give up our NHS status either, we are also well under retirement age,and have no real income apart from interest payments therefore to have to now divert £2000 a year for something we don't want or need, means we will have to shorten our future in Turkey, is this what they really wanted to achieve!
If you live in Turkey for ten months of the year you loose your entitlement to the NHS in the UK, plus if you got married it would half the cost.
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quote:
Originally posted by dinger
We were told we had all the correct documentation but unfortuately as our residency permit is due for renewal on the 1st March 2012, they would not register us, stating that you must have at least one full year left on your residency. We were told to come back in March after we have renewed our residency.
So which criteria is it for Residency Permits?
Dinger is told by the SGK you have to have a year or more left on your RP.
Dutchie is told by the Director of the SGK it is those who have had RP'S for a year or more.
Fethiye Times/LOL article says it is those who have a RP of a year or more.[?]
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My husband,s Rp runs out 21 Feb it was for 5 yrs so does he not register then [?]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
quote:
Originally posted by corbindallas
I find it incredible from what I am reading that I now have to find another £2000 a year for my partner and I to be able to stay in Turkey, as we are not married we have to pay double, I am guessing our daughter as she is under 3 will be tagged on one of the policies (unlike the resident permit). I moved to Turkey when this scheme was not on the horizon, so I knew if we need anything medical we pay private, I have no issue with this at all.We live here full time for 10 month's of the year, the rest back in the UK, so we also don't want to give up our NHS status either, we are also well under retirement age,and have no real income apart from interest payments therefore to have to now divert £2000 a year for something we don't want or need, means we will have to shorten our future in Turkey, is this what they really wanted to achieve!
If you live in Turkey for ten months of the year you loose your entitlement to the NHS in the UK, plus if you got married it would half the cost.
If the 10 months was continuous then yes you would be right, however as long as we are not out of the UK for periods longer than 3 months then you still remain fully entitled to NHS treatment, as it is classed as temporary regardless of what it adds up to over a year.
Re the marriage solution, I think half the cost is still too much for something I don't want or need for when we are here.
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Hubby and I were maybe planning on spending six months next year in Turkey with one visit back to the UK in the intense heat of August.Having sat and worked out some possible dates for next year,with the new visa rules as well coming in to play I have realised this wont be possible with the new visa rules as we will only be able to stay the 90 days out of the 180, so we are now thinking about the residency to enable us to stay for the six months. My brain is rather full up at the mo with stuff so could someone clarify for me please if we are married (which we are :))would we have to pay only one amount for us both for the new medical insurance, many thanks.
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Yep! As long as you're married to each other!
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Yabanci, while we were in the SGK office there were two other couples from the UK, one who,s RP runs out in Sept 2012 and the other who,s RP runs out in April 2012 and our RP which runs out in March 2012.He would not register any of us for the reason i posted earlier..... we do not have one full year on our residency permits.
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Can I ask the following?
Proposes status
We get a 5 year residency each and participate in the SGK scheme
Questions!
1) Can we cancel our 5 year residencies at any time
2) If residencies are cancelled then we would automatically opt out of the SGK and our payments would cease - i.e. we would stop our bank direct debits? (assuming that this is the form of accepted payment)
3) Once residencies are cancelled can we resort back to the 90/180 day visitor visas with no obstructions being imposed?
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Just a quickie, any help appreciated.
I took a 1 year RP,last April so dont have to register now. If I allow this to lapse ie dont renew this April do I have to register/ join the scheme?
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@Saoirse, the way it was explained to me at SGK, you won't need to register now since it hasn't been more than a year.
If you have a 6 months' rp you don't have to register at all so I think there lies the solution.
Just 6 months' rp from now on and you won't need to register and/or pay for SGK.
@Braveheart, I've never heard of cancelling a residence permit. Of course, until now I don't think there was any need to cancel them. You better ask the Yabanci police in the harbour.
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Do you mean 6 months and over I have just under 5 yrs left on mine so I need to register.:(
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Good advice aDutchie thats exact what I was thinking about- let this current one expire then apply for 6 month one. Doesnt an RP start from the date of your most recent entry stamp?
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No, it starts from your date of application.
So if you have arrived in Turkey on a tourist visa, you will be able to stay 90 days. Before this ends, you apply for a rp for as long as you need it before you're planning to return to the UK.
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Dutchie - I might be wrong but as someone who bought a 5 year visa for the first time 3 weeks ago it affects me.
I do not think it is "held a residency for more than 12 months" it is "has a residency visa with more than 12 months left on it".
My wife and I went to the SGK office in Fethiye yesterday (manic with dozens of locals subscribing) and we met some Brits coming out.
They had only a few weeks left on a long term residency visa and were told to come back after they had renewed their visa's - we were told YES you should register. (remember only 3 weeks into our first ever visa)
So the "net" captures the new residency holders like us who rushed to get it at the very attractive price - even though we expect to spend only 6 months maximum here each year and have our own long term travel cover on each trip.
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If you are going to spend time in Turkey as well as the UK be very careful you do not spend more then six months out of Turkey otherwise you loose your residence permit
Also if you are not going to pay this health care how are you paying for any health care you require.
Saoirse being Irish you do not have to pay for your RP do you.
Surely if you are going to do an RP for six months at a time do you not think that questions will not be asked why you are doing this
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The way it was explained to me it would indeed affect you but only after your first year had finished.
What Dinger - and you as well - described was not mentioned to me but I hadn't asked about it.
Holders of rp longer than one year are the ones who will need to pay and you seem to be very unfortunate.
Especially if you're only planning to spend 6 months maximum.
Maybe your NHS might "rescue" you but time will tell that.
Up to the Embassy to negotiate for UK citizens here.
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No the NHS will not rescue you, even the British Embassy/Consulate will only repatriate you if you can prove you or someone has the money to pay them back.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
If you are going to spend time in Turkey as well as the UK be very careful you do not spend more then six months out of Turkey otherwise you loose your residence permit
Also if you are not going to pay this health care how are you paying for any health care you require.
Saoirse being Irish you do not have to pay for your RP do you
Sus thats correct the RP is free but all this compulsory health ins rules apply. I do not live in Turkey I spend 5 months there so from now on will apply for a RP to cover this period only.
Dutchie just checked my RP and as I suspected it commences on your last date of entry NOT date of application. I arrived last April on Saturday 30/4. Ilknur applied for my RP on Monday morning 2nd May. The RP states commencement date 30/4.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
If you are going to spend time in Turkey as well as the UK be very careful you do not spend more then six months out of Turkey otherwise you loose your residence permit
Oh dear - that is a new one on me - has anyone got experience of losing their residency for this reason?
We intended to spend (after almost a full year this year) 3 months on 3 months off throughout the remainder of our 4 years (on the residency) still maintaining our home - paying council tax etc so that we only left the UK for periods of just up to 90 days each time.
Looks like we might need a Plan B :)
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If you read the article in Fethiye Times / Land of Lights (both the same draft probably to avoid mixed messages) you will see it supports my point "British passport holders with residency permits of a year or more etc should register"
I am typing on an iPod touch so won't go on too much but this also would support my theory that they want everyone with a year or more on their residency as they will not allow access to new registrees / start taking payments from some until next year as the retrospective approach would allow them to determine if you have been here more than 180 days. As you can do a max of 2 x 90 days in any one year on tourist visas I suspect that "eventually" 180 days will become a "trigger" to become mandatory or not for individuals - we will see...
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Ian. Like you, I have never heard or know of anyone losing their residency if they are out of Turkey for more than 6 months and they have a 1 or 5 year residency permit. Remember when Manuel took out his 3 year residency and went back to the uk? He returned 9 months later for a holiday, his residency permit was still valid and there were no problems.
I do not see this causing a problem at all.
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@Braveheart, I've never heard of cancelling a residence permit. Of course, until now I don't think there was any need to cancel them. You better ask the Yabanci police in the harbour.
[/quote]
Dutchie what I do not want to happen is that if my circumstances change to find that I will only be visiting Turkey for short spells - I do not want to find that I am 'contracted' In to the Health Scheme for 5 years @ TL1000 plus per year
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quote:
Originally posted by dinger
Yabanci, while we were in the SGK office there were two other couples from the UK, one who,s RP runs out in Sept 2012 and the other who,s RP runs out in April 2012 and our RP which runs out in March 2012.He would not register any of us for the reason i posted earlier..... we do not have one full year on our residency permits.
Can I ask how long was your residency for.Ours has to be renewed in June,but we have had the residence for 4 and half years ....
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Bravehart 1000tl per year[?] more like £1200 per year:-\
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
No the NHS will not rescue you, even the British Embassy/Consulate will only repatriate you if you can prove you or someone has the money to pay them back.
I meant "rescue" as in that because Ian still has NHS the SGK might not be compulsory for him.
But I reckon that will depend upon the agreement between Turkey and UK.
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@Saoirse, that's the first time I've heard such a time. Maybe it's because your application date is so close to your entrance date.
In past years, I always tried to use up my tourist visa and then take out a rp (because at the time the visa was very expensive for us). The rp started at the date of application.
@Braveheart, it looks like owners of a 5 years residence permit will be dealing with the compulsory SGK. It costs 212 TL per month.
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Just for the record, when CBF member expats asked UK insurer Staysure for medical cover quotes for Brits living abroad, I recall it was around £300 per month (for a couple) [ http://www.staysure.co.uk/overseas/medical-insurance ] - so if it helps, relatively 212 TL isn't bad...
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Apparently Germans dont have to pay this new health charge so at least thats a bit of good news amongst the gloom.
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Not for you, Herr Donnelly :D
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@Braveheart, it looks like owners of a 5 years residence permit will be dealing with the compulsory SGK. It costs 212 TL per month.
[/quote]
That being the case there is NO way that I will agree to pay TL212 per month for the next 5 years unless I am sure that it is time/money well spent and all is transparent
Surely you can cancel your residency agreement depending on circumstances (no-one can forsee the future)
Maybe maximum to go for is 12 months - by that time the left hand will know what the right hand is doing
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That wouldn't make any sense since the Germans are the ones that have always lived in this country without insurance.
Their Krankenkasse isn't valid in Turkey.
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Can I get a RP on a monthly basis?
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Milliemars,the SGK office had no interest at all in how long our current RP was for, or for that matter any of the other UK couples who were there. Ours was for one year, i think the others were three years.As ive posted earlier he would not register us because non of the couples there had one full year left on our RP
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Our RP runs out in September 2012. Will there be something in writing to say that we went to register but couldnt because of this? We dont want to get the fine. Sorry if this seems a but thick. Would a stoke 20 years ago count as a pre existing medical condition.?
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quote:
Originally posted by mercury
Our RP runs out in September 2012. Will there be something in writing to say that we went to register but couldnt because of this? We dont want to get the fine. Sorry if this seems a but thick. Would a stoke 20 years ago count as a pre existing medical condition.?
Everything is so confused, we just renewed our RP for 3 years in August 2011 so haven't completed a full year (on this visa) but have been here 4 years. Some say they aren't looking at previous RP's others say it's if you have more than a year to go on current RP.
As you asked just what is considered pre-existing, hubby had a mild heart attack 8 years ago, no surgery involved just daily meds to keep his BP and cholesterol under control, I'am Ceoliac and apart from a gluten free diet need only a B12 injection every 3 months and I take Osteocare (Calcium, Zinc, D3) otherwise we are both very well and do not need ongoing medical treatment.
Whilst we have no problems with complying with the new law, if it is fair, as things are looking it's hardly reciprocal to the NHS services available to legal residents in the UK.
We will go and register, simply to avoid the astronomical fine but so much needs clarifying.
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We have a 3 year residency which we took out in Sept do we still have to register by the 31st Jan or do we wait until we have had it a year. Dont get back to Turkey till 28th so will have to get skates on if this is the case.
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Hi , I have a few questions that some of you may be able to clarify.
1 , Does the Marriage Cerificate have to be the Original or can a scanned copy be printed off and taken along to the Notaries for Translation.
2, Someone mentioned that you loose your residency if you are out of Turkey for more than 6 months, is this consecutive months or based over 12 months and date of Issue.
3, Also it is mentioned that you have to take your Marriage Cert, Passport and Residency Book along with you to Register at the SGK Office in Fethiye , You also say we need to take some form of Social Security Docs, what is this and is it required.
4, As we are not back in Calis until the later end of February , can someone clarify whether a fine will be imposed.
5, We took our 5 year Residency out last July , Do we still need to Register or wait until a year is up on the RP Issue Date.
6, We are correct in assuming that we are not covered by the NHS in the UK, and as I am registered non-residence with the HMRC I would'nt expect anything else anyway, but saying that we do have International Private Health Cover through BUPA, am I correct in assuming this is worthless in Turkey and not recognised, therfore we still need to register with the SGK.
7, Finally we have no issues with paying for this service even though we are both in good Health at this time. But you never know what is around the corner. ( Thank God you are not living in America there you really pay for this )But I do sympathise with others who live with-in certain budgets.
My appologies for all the Questions but hopefully some positive feedback is returned...
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1) Usually you have to take the original document to the notaries office.
2) I think this only applies if you are aiming for citizenship - you are only allowed 180 days outside Turkey in a continuous 5 year period.
3) The embassy in Ankara have a letter confiming that people who are outside the UK for more than 6 months a year are not entitled to NHS cover - they are hoping that the Turkish Governmwnt will accept this as proof or just that anyone with a 1 year residency permit is not entitled to NHS cover - it's yet to be clarified - there was talk of copies of this letter been available at the Consulate office in Fethiye but I dodn't know whether than is the case.
4) The fine is nearly 900 lira - how can they fine you? They will have your passport showing that you were not in the country at the time of the deadline. saying that this is Turkey - if they do try and fine you take it up with the British Embassy here.
5) I'd go and register now - they can always send you away if they don't think you need ot before July - better safe than sorry.
6) They original said that comparable health cover would be acceptable but now seem to be saying it won't be - if you've got a good rate on your BUPA which you would find difficult to obtain again - I'd be tempted to keep it up until things have settled down and the Governement have clarified.
There is very little information on the FCO website at the moment - Turks are means tested and will pay a premium of between 35tl and the 213tl a month depending on their income. British nationals are automatically been assessed at the higher level which assumes an income of 2 x Turkish minium wages - approx 1500 lira a month - some people are now talking about discrimination - all very confusing here by the time you come out later in February the situation may have changed.
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Does the scheme apply to retired RP's?
Do retired Turkish Nationals pay towards the scheme?
Why would Turkey take over the healthcare of retired RP's, when insurance companies place such a high premium on this group?
The UK NHS is struggling to care for the ageing population, why should Turkey volunteer to take this over for such a small cost.
What are retired RP's likely to gain as far as care by joining the scheme? I doubt if the care given to retired RP's that are in need would be anything like the standard of care in the UK.
But at least you will be able to keep your home?
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So if I just get a 10 month RP every time I will not qualify for the Health Scheme, just the hassle of renewal every 10 months? Is it that simple, surely not!?
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I suspect the truth is, no one knows...
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We are in a quandary. My wife's residency has 3 1/2 years to run and mine has 3 years, However we have moved back to the U.K permanently, although I have to return in March to pick up our dog from quarantine. Do we still have to pay this insurance even though we are not going to be living there?
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People should be asking questions of the UK Government because they have been in talks with the Turkish Government over several issues. The UK Government have a DUTY OF CARE to their citizens and as such, should be looking after them at ALL times, even if they choose to live elsewhere.
Many expats have paid NI, Tax and other charges in the UK for many years and therefore should be entitled to advice on matters such as this.
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Ray - can you please clarify - are you saying the UK Government should be providing advice and/or health care for those living abroad
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Ray, you must be joking! the UK provide the poorest quality of care for people over 60 imaginable. I had numb feet for 2 years before I came here and my GP refused to send me to a specialist or order tests to find out why. I got a hospital infection at Whipps Cross in 1993 because it was so dirty, and 6 years later developed an abcess from it. Again the gp refused to do anything but give me low doses of anti biotics. When he finally did, 18mos later, it had become a fistula and I have been on antibiotics for 10 years now because surgery would have made me incontinent. They are putting DNR orders on people without permission left and right. I knew I would not be insured when I came here and if I got something expensive I might die, but then if it was expensive I would probably die in the UK because they put your age in the computer, life expectancy and if the cost is too much....no treatment. I'd rather die here. With the current deficit, you really think they are going to spend any more money???? Must be good stuff you're smokin'.
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"..the UK provide the poorest quality of care for people over 60 imaginable."
"...but then if it was expensive I would probably die in the UK because they put your age in the computer, life expectancy and if the cost is too much....no treatment."
I simply do not accept either of those statements to be true.
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Hamilton: 'I doubt if the care given to retired RP's that are in need would be anything like the standard of care in the UK.'
Please see above. When I mentioned the feet to the dermatologist at Esnafe 5 years ago, she asked if I would like to see the Neurosurgeon. I said yes and within 10 minutes was being examined. The next day it was Mugla and an emg, back to Fethiye for an MRI and medication. turns out i have a herniaged disc. After I got the insurance, I went back to see the neuro and was sent to Antalaya for a report from the Professor Dr. The medication, which costs 141tl per month is now free because it is a chronic condition, as is my BP med. The MRI cost 35tl at Esnaf. I was scheduled for surgery on the fistula at Antalaya when they cancelled all policies in Oct, illegally, and that will cost 12tl. The hospitals are spotless, the equipment state of the art and they treat old folks better than younger ones. One of the benefits of living in an Islamic society.
AS to cost, everyone pays the same, and the cost averages out. I'm sure the number of auto and bike accidents cost more than elderly foriegner's care. Remember, there are more people living in Istanbul than the whole country of Greece and it is the biggest city in Europe. The secret is in the numbers.
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There HAD to be a 'sting in the tail'. When the cost of residency came down, everyone though
"how wonderful". As the spider said to the fly ! You know how it goes AND Cast a sprat etc etc.
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Where is the SGK office in Fethiye?
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quote:
Originally posted by Ray1951
There HAD to be a 'sting in the tail'. When the cost of residency came down, everyone though
"how wonderful". As the spider said to the fly ! You know how it goes AND Cast a sprat etc etc.
Well put it this way they did not have to lower the cost of an RP in the first place, so think your self lucky they did.
With the amount of foreigners now living in Turkey do you really think that the small amount they were charging you for treatment covered the expenses of doctors and hospitals, no way it did, so why should you expect Turkey to pay for your medical treatment without you paying something towards the upkeep of their hospitals, medical equipment and medical staff salaries, I think 2,500 lira is a small amount to be asked to pay.
I really do not understand what all the complaining is about.
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Originally posted by Ray1951
People should be asking questions of the UK Government because they have been in talks with the Turkish Government over several issues. The UK Government have a DUTY OF CARE to their citizens and as such, should be looking after them at ALL times, even if they choose to live elsewhere.
Many expats have paid NI, Tax and other charges in the UK for many years and therefore should be entitled to advice on matters such as this.[/
uote]
You really are joking regarding this post you must be, and please stop shouting you are giving me a headache.
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Well put it this way they did not have to lower the cost of an RP in the first place, so think your self lucky they did.
With the amount of foreigners now living in Turkey do you really think that the small amount they were charging you for treatment covered the expenses of doctors and hospitals, no way it did, so why should you expect Turkey to pay for your medical treatment without you paying something towards the upkeep of their hospitals, medical equipment and medical staff salaries, I think 2,500 lira is a small amount to be asked to pay.
I really do not understand what all the complaining is about.
[/quote]
My sentiments exactly!
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We have now spoken to the embassy in ANKARA and they are waiting on confirmation from the turkish government and say we all should hold off until late this afternoon or tomorrow morning to get the truth and ankara will email all local consulate offices
Taken from Fethiye Expats on facebook [?]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
quote:
Originally posted by Ray1951
There HAD to be a 'sting in the tail'. When the cost of residency came down, everyone though
"how wonderful". As the spider said to the fly ! You know how it goes AND Cast a sprat etc etc.
Well put it this way they did not have to lower the cost of an RP in the first place, so think your self lucky they did.
With the amount of foreigners now living in Turkey do you really think that the small amount they were charging you for treatment covered the expenses of doctors and hospitals, no way it did, so why should you expect Turkey to pay for your medical treatment without you paying something towards the upkeep of their hospitals, medical equipment and medical staff salaries, I think 2,500 lira is a small amount to be asked to pay.
I really do not understand what all the complaining is about.
Obviously you are not reading all the threads Sus, life is not always black and white, people are complaining because it is unfair in certain peoples circumstances, mine for instance means we have to pay double the fee as we chose not to get married, which is our right, others are not living in Turkey full time and are being trapped because of the new 90/180 visa rules. It is very clever 'not' to just say it is a small amount but for some it is not a small amount, compared to their income, remember this was not on the agenda pre 2010. As for paying towards the infastructure of Turkey's Healthcare system, I and others do this every time I pay taxes in Turkey and when I need medical attention I pay private at the fees they set and accept this fully. I do not get why you feel this is a issue made by the amount of foreigners here that is frankly crap, you only have to look at the money brought into turkey by ex pat's to see that.[:(!]
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Came across this in English "SOCIAL INSURANCE AND UNIVERSAL HEALTH
INSURANCE LAW" on the Turkish government site, which may be of interest http://www.sgk.gov.tr/wps/wcm/connect/1513fcb9-6954-42f1-9711-1708b08ff3a0/SOCIAL_INSURANCE_AND_UNIVERSAL_HEALTH_INSURNCE_LAW.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
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There are now two topics which are more or less at the same point of conversation so please note this one will close and be left as read-only and the other [ http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/forum/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=45259 ] will become the centre for debate on this topic. If I can find a moment when someone isn't already mid-reply on this one I will close it then, otherwise it will be tonight when you are all sleeping.
If you want you point to be part of the ongoing discussions, post it in the other one please.
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quote:
Originally posted by corbindallas
quote:
Originally posted by Sus
quote:
Originally posted by Ray1951
There HAD to be a 'sting in the tail'. When the cost of residency came down, everyone though
"how wonderful". As the spider said to the fly ! You know how it goes AND Cast a sprat etc etc.
Well put it this way they did not have to lower the cost of an RP in the first place, so think your self lucky they did.
With the amount of foreigners now living in Turkey do you really think that the small amount they were charging you for treatment covered the expenses of doctors and hospitals, no way it did, so why should you expect Turkey to pay for your medical treatment without you paying something towards the upkeep of their hospitals, medical equipment and medical staff salaries, I think 2,500 lira is a small amount to be asked to pay.
I really do not understand what all the complaining is about.
Obviously you are not reading all the threads Sus, life is not always black and white, people are complaining because it is unfair in certain peoples circumstances, mine for instance means we have to pay double the fee as we chose not to get married, which is our right, others are not living in Turkey full time and are being trapped because of the new 90/180 visa rules. It is very clever 'not' to just say it is a small amount but for some it is not a small amount, compared to their income, remember this was not on the agenda pre 2010. As for paying towards the infastructure of Turkey's Healthcare system, I and others do this every time I pay taxes in Turkey and when I need medical attention I pay private at the fees they set and accept this fully. I do not get why you feel this is a issue made by the amount of foreigners here that is frankly crap, you only have to look at the money brought into turkey by ex pat's to see that.[:(!]
Yes I have read all the threads.
Here we go again thinking that the foreigners are supporting Turkey, now tell me what taxes you pay, of course it may not have been on your agenda pre 2010, but you should make sure you enough money in the bank to retire on so when this sort of things happen you can pay for it without any problem.
A lot of items that happen in your life are not on your agenda but can cost a lot of money when they happen.
As for the visit visa well that is all it is really for a holiday to visit, not to have a property in Turkey and live no matter if it is for a few months at a time or full time, and you still require to have a RP for a car, telephone etc so are you telling me you have none of these.
Put it this way when I retire I will not have an income (sorry yes I will it is called a UK Pension )I will be living on what we have saved all the time through our working life, but then again I am not looking at retirement at the age between thirty and forty and thinking I can live of the interest my money will bring in, you have to plan ahead.
I suppose the next thing people will be wanting after they reach 60 in Turkey is an OAP Free Bus Pass.
Life is a gamble to a certain point, but you have to look ahead and think how you are going to be able to afford to live in ten years, and keep in mind inflation and health and changes in circumstances in the country you are living.
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Sorry to have read this so late and i see there are alot of concerns regarding this new insurance. I only found out about it recently and find it appauling that its not been clarified properly. The latest i read was that by today (this afternoon ) consulates will know everything but we can take that with a pinch of salt im sure. Are we being bullied and rushed into something just like the road tax was and everyone was told 1000tl lira fine if not paid by end of year? Why has there been no goverment announcement on thşs subject since it will effect alot of people who live in Turkey and people who may be thinking of living here? Its supposed to be a dmocracy yet we are TOLD you must register before Feb 1st or get 886tl lira fine. Why would you register for something that you dont know about? would you do this in the uk? many people i hear have been scaremongered and gone to register weather succesful or not i think its disgraceful. There are many voices when it comes to helping Animals ie dogs, cats, dolphins (which is fantastic)and whatever, so where are the voices on this. Its scandelous and theatrical and borders on comical (although nobodys laughing). When we all applied for residency we all gave tel no s and emails. Why havent all these emails been given to the consulates from the local government offices and emails explaining whats what sent to the people concerned. Why do we hear tit bits through social web sites and forums and its all guess work because nearly every thread adds on or takes off. So im asking why dont we arrrange a seating with the mayor with translators and the local press and get this all over the media and highlight it. a question and answer sitting and ask the mayor to please get clarification on EVERYTHING regarding this law and pass it onto us before this threatning deadline we have all been giving. i dont have any answers only my support and feel its such a serious matter as do the readers on this forum looking at the responses. So if your all upfor it. Give me numbers and i would like an answer time with the mayor. Ofcoarse he cant change any legislation passed by the government but he can find out and let us know. Surely he can get the answers we require. There are over 5000 x pats living in the mugla area so come out in your hundreds if your concerned! Everyone is guessing on this one and who knows were it may lead.
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I totally agree with you ,we have to stick together ,i am all for it .
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Is the mayor the right person to see? Surely it should be the Consulate??
Meanwhile here is a quote from another forum, from someone who has just spoken to British Embassy Consular Section this morning. "They were well aware of all these difficulties and that they were making a statement today but that it may not appear on the website for a day or more yet and asked for our patience. I told her that with this deadline fast approaching,many were very upset at the lack of information or advice for British Nationals from the Embassy and the website could have been updated after Christmas at the very least notifying us that they were still unable to resolve the situation.
Her advice was to keep checking the web page The British Embassy in Turkey Update for British nationals resident in Turkey for further updates and that they were well aware that it still didn't answer the questions many are currently asking."
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Another addition to this topic .I have spent the morning at SGK along with a few more expats. The current number for service was 172 and my number was 380 !!!! so expecting a very long wait. An english lady came to tell us that a message had been received from Ankara Embassy to tell us all to wait a few more days as a directive would be sent to ALL Local Consulate Offices with exact details . Apparently I was told that Fethiye is the only area enforcing this end of month deadline. I was also informed that not only do you need a photo copy of residency with your photograph showing but also a photocopy of date of expiry . Seems the message is to hold fire but more details can be had if you are on Facebook. Tina Parkin is the lady in touch with Ankara and the details are on the Fethiye Area Xpats Zone page.
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There are now two topics which are more or less at the same point of conversation so please note this one will close and be left as read-only and the other [ http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/forum/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=45259 ] will become the centre for debate on this topic. If I can find a moment when someone isn't already mid-reply on this one I will close it then, otherwise it will be tonight when you are all sleeping.
If you want you point to be part of the ongoing discussions, post it in the other one please.
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Yes it is very on Facebook a lot of information 8)
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Now locking this one - please post in the topic running simultaneously as detailed.
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Why start 30 pages and the change it the other one has only 11
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Because if I lock that one and keep this running someone else will ask the same question. Good job I'm happy with the can't win life I live.
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http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/forum/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=45259