Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Health & Healthcare => Topic started by: Highlander on September 19, 2015, 18:36:28 PM
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The incident:
Brenda's artificial knee "slipped" after walking and climbing stairs to the apartment causing extensive swelling and a great deal of pain.
The hospital:
We went to Esnaf arriving at 20:45 and were immediately shown into the emergency suite where a doctor examined Brenda's injury and organised an x-Ray. Shortly after that an English speaking lady confirmed that an x-Ray had been organised and that we would met again when the results were known.
This took place shortly afterwards with the doctor explaining that he did not have enough English to explain what exactly the problem was but that another consultant would and that Brenda would be staying the night. We were taken up to the ward approximately 35 minutes after we arrived.
Brenda was put in a private room with eh suite shower, fridge, safe and fold down bed - in the maternity wing !!!
The treatment:
Treatment consisted of ice packs to reduce the swelling, antibiotics to counter any infection and pain killers. The ice packs were not changed nearly regularly enough. At one point during day two, an English speaking lady from the Tourist Office advised that the consultant was considering replacing the knee !!!
Brenda was discharged first thing on the third day with pain killers and a set if crutches.
The Insurance:
On arrival we were asked for passport and copy of insurance policy, both of which we had taken. It was explained to us that the hospital staff would contact the Insurance company.
We were the wished good luck in filing in the 8 or so forms we were presented with. I just about managed but if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in a similar position, we were asked for things like flight numbers, home doctor's details etc.
It was explained that the insurance company would be consulted regarding the possible knee replacement.
We were asked to pay the excess on the insurance policy before we left which we did by Credit Card.
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to fire away.
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Get well soon Brenda.
H have PM'd you.i
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Firstly want to express get well wishes.
I have heard lots of things recently about the Esnaf only being interested in making money these days.
Our own experienced there havent been great, sequences of errors, and bad attitude of tourist office staff which resulted in me putting in a formal complaint about all the issues we had experienced. ( I had a very nice reply and they reimbursed the cost of Johns repeat lenses due to the wrong prescription, blah blah )
Have you had another opinion?
The staff at Letoon are fab and always a superb service from the translators.
Is Brenda going to be having a knee replacement ?
Or was that just their suggestion?
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Kayakebab - thanks for your kind wishes
Brenda has always known that she would need a full replacement at some point.
I confess to being sceptical about the offer if a knee replacement the following day. Seemed driven by money.
Fairly obvious that insurance company said no and thereafter they couldn't get Brenda out quick enough knowing that they were only getting the excess.
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Get well soon Brenda.
H have PM'd you.i
Your very kind offer very gratefully received Jim
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One interesting aspect which I don't know the answer to ?
I took out insurance cover strictly between our holiday dates (have subsequently been told that other people take insurance for one week either side of travel dates).
Would insurance have covered us if Brenda's treatment had overrun the dates on the policy ?
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Yes it would as the claim commenced within the policy period.
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Sorry, I can't help with your queries John, but please give Brenda our best wishes for a comfortable remainder of your holiday. xx :)
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Lovely to see you both last night and have to say Brenda is a real trooper and was coping so well and she looked lovely. Best wishes from Phil and I that you both enjoy the rest of your holiday and don't forget to let us know if you need anything. It would not be a problem.
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So sorry to hear about Brenda's slipped knee and hope she is still able to enjoy her holiday... And you too of course.
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Get well soon Brenda. I hope you can enjoy the rest of your holiday.
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Get well soon Brenda!
That does sound like they were working on extracting as much lira as possible from you H.
However you were at least dealt with swiftly. In the UK you might still be waiting ;)
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Get well soon Brenda,
im sure your wonderfull John will be there for ALL your needs.
best regards Ron & Olga
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Enjoy the rest of your holiday Brenda, and get H running round for you! ;)
I am no medical practitioner of any kind, and my assessment may not apply to your case at all. But! ...... I have had my doubts for a long time where ESNAF (and indeed Letoon hospital) is concerned when they get a tourist patient in and they have plenty of insurance cover. What I have seen from other people's experience is that these hospitals milk it, keeping people in not just overnight but for two or three days or even longer, carrying out all sorts of test and treatments, and after the discharge getting them to come back on a daily basis for further treatment. Most of which is probably not required, all being paid for by the insurance company (and ultimately the great travelling public) and really all most people want is to be treated enough and be as comfortable as possible to enjoy their holiday, not stuck around a hospital.
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Get well soon Brenda
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And here is the malingerer herself :)
(http://s15.postimg.org/wqv1kob47/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wqv1kob47/)
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I am looking for a set of L Plates for you to put on the chair "H" :)
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It's just attention seeking! They'll be first on the plane, I know what this is all about. You can't fool me he-he !
Only joking!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Aye but last off ;)
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What I want to know is how she can back seat drive from a wheelchair :(
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Highlander, I am so sorry for the events which have overtaken your holiday. My very best wishes to Brenda and here is a hope for a speedy recovery. None of us expect our holiday, which we have looked forward to all year, to end like this. My best wishes to you both and here's hoping that it hasn't put the kibosh on things. Something tells me that you will both overcome and make the best of things. Best wishes. :)
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In the past we have used both the Latoon and Esnaf hospitals. We have had excellent service/treatment from both. We were private patients and the fees charged were a fraction of what we pay in the UK. Also it was winter and out of the main tourist season.
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Hope Brenda is recovering well. This year we too had experience of Turkish medical care. Mr T hurt his foot and after two days of swelling and increasing pain and difficulty walking finally agreed that he needed a doctor. We arrived at Esnaf Hospital at 5.15 pm and were taken straight to a department for foreign visitors. There they took details of his injury and copies of his passport and travel insurance policy. As H said you also need a copy of your flight confirmation and your GP's details and your National Insurance number. We were then passed on to an English speaking Patient liaison person who we recognised as Yaz, an ex barman from the Mutlu Hotel. He gave us a sheaf of papers to complete and transferred us to an examination room. Mr T was seen immediately by a doctor and then carted off in a wheelchair for xrays while I was left working on the forms. I was still playing secretary when he arrived back in the waiting area and was told the consultant would be with us soon. Yaz was with us when the consultant gave the diagnosis, fortunately no break, just a problem with the ligaments. Anti-inflammatory gel and tablets were prescribed. We then went to an office area where we rang our travel insurers who gave a reference number to enable the hospital to obtain payment and we paid the £50 direct to the hospital. We left the hospital with a supply of the medication and were back at our hotel in Calis by 7.15. Compare that with my elderly Mum's experience at home in England the following weekend when she fell in the street and dislocated her shoulder. She was taken to A&E and wasn't seen by a doctor for over 4 hours.
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Really sorry about Brenda's predicament, fingers crossed that you get sorted soon.
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Trying to arrange a wheelchair at Dalaman and Glasgow is proving impossible.
>:( >:( >:(
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Have you spoken to your insurers? Their responsibility doesn't end (on the basis you've made a claim) when the individual is released from hospital.
JF
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Thanks for that suggestion JohnF.
Are 0800 numbers free in Turkey do you know we are low on money on phone.
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My friend had the same problem from Faro to Leeds the other year. Made him walk up the steps after surgery to remove his appendix!
Hope you get it sorted. If there's anything I can do from this end I'm available to try.
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Many thanks stoop
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Trying to arrange a wheelchair at Dalaman and Glasgow is proving impossible.
>:( >:( >:(
Friends needed to add wheelchair assistance to their booking when they went back this weekend. They contacted the airline, who organised everything at both ends. If I can help in any way, just shout.
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How did she do it Liz - I've tried the website and a friend at home only gets a recorded message on the 0800 number.
I would try the 0800 number if I knew it was free as we are low on funds on Brenda's phone and there I no landline where we are staying.
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She rang the pre-flight admin desk of her airline. Let me know which airline you are with & I'll try & search it out for you
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That's so very kind Liz - it's the one and only Thomas Cook
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OK, you need to log into Thomas Cook & go to the "Manage my booking" area, & add it there, or that's what's indicated. Without a booking ref, I can't check it for you sadly.
My friend also discovered that there were 2 levels of wheelchair assist & it seems that you, as she did, require assistance including ambulift, which takes you right up to the aircraft cabin.
When she got to Dalaman on Saturday night, she left her OH outside, in the drop off zone & went inside herself & brought the wheelchair + chappie to do the pushing back to him. No queuing anywhere, luggage virtually taken care of at both ends etc. One thing you will need is a fit to fly certificate, which is only valid for 3 days from issue, so if your flight is Monday, the earliest you can get it is Friday / Saturday. Her OH spent 5 days of their holiday in Esnaf, needing an op for a badly broken arm
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What a time you and Brenda are having John. Robin and I wish you all the luck in the world, and it goes without saying, if we can be of any help at all to you, even on your arrival back in Glasgow, please don't hesitate to contact us. Much love to you both xxxxx
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My wife goes to the assistance point at dalaman to get a porter and wheelchair for me .. as you go in to the airport its on the right hand side half way along by the windows.they then fast track you
Ron
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Does anyone know if the tourist office at Esnaf is open all day.
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John, if you need a run down there just p.m. me. It is not a problem and we would be very happy to help you. We also have a Turkish mobile which you are welcome to use.
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Hi John,
0800 numbers are not free from mobiles and not free when dialling from abroad. You can call at cheaper rates from Skype over wifi and can load Skype onto an iPad (or similar) or smartphone.
Hopefully you can find someone who will let you use their landline or a Turkish mobile. You can normally find an alternative number to use rather than 0800 numbers when abroad. There should be one on the Thomas Cook website.
I hope you get sorted out and Brenda gets whisked through the airport.
All the best
Martin
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Hi John,
Correcting earlier post, 0800 numbers are now free from mobiles when dialled within the UK, but will not be free if dialled from Turkey.
I think the Thomas Cook number for assistance is +44 (0)844 855 0515.
If not the right number then I'm sure they will give you another one to call.
All the best
Martin
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Jacqui and MSB - very many thanks for your offers.
The whole thing has descended into farce - I am fully expecting Brian Rix to reappear
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I was about to say that WOULD be a miracle but he's still alive and well at 91! :-[
Hopefully all will go smoothly H. x
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Hi John,
There will be someone in the tourism office at Esnaf all the time, but at night, also at weekends and holiday periods, the cover is less. So maybe more of a wait at these times. I don't know if you have sorted wheel chair assistance out, or when your return flights are. I am at the airport Saturday morning so if after that I can speak to the Thomas Cook airport controller for wheel chair assistance. You would have to let me know your return flight details. Her name is Karen, if you arrive at the airport maybe ask for her? If before this, I think your best hope is via the website or even to contact the Thomas Cook office in Karagozler. The emergency assistance companies do not generally arrange wheel chair assistance unless you have missed your original return flight and they have arranged a new flight back for you.
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Ask the Polıce at baggage checks ıfyou can go through and order a wheelchaır. Go through and turn ımmedıate left and there ıs a customer servıce desk and they wıll radıo for a wheelchaır for you. Usually takes about 15 mıns. I leave my daughter ın the car whıle I waıt for ıt.
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Thanks Lisa and quackery :)
Our flight is this evening lisaa.
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Good luck H, I'm sure the airport will look after you well.
Safe journey home, hope Brenda will be ok, and that you've still managed to enjoy yourself in spite of this, and the awful weather x
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The Outcome – Part 1
I am not sure I have the will to write all this but here goes.
We received the following unsolicited email from international assistance
Dear Mr Stephen,
We are the medical assistance company working on behalf of your travel insurers Saga.
We would like to speak to you or your wife with regards to arranging some assistance for her flight home, can you please give us a call on 0044 208 763 4878
and quote the reference number 2030134
Q: What would have happed if I had not picked up the email. Why didn’t they phone us.
Despite having very little money in her phone Brenda contacted international rescue (IR) as they soon became known.
We then received the following email from IR.
Dear Mr Stephen,
Since my earlier conversation with your wife it seems we are having persistent phone problems.
I'm afraid for us to accept the liability and perform your wifes medical repatriation we must arrange the 2 additional seats as well as the wheelchair assistance as our medical team have recomended this.
This means we are unable to arrange wheelchair assistance exclusively.
I am in the process of having the 2 additional seats and the wheelchair requested, but please be aware if you decline this assistance we cannot accept liability for your journey home.
I will try to call again later this afternoon to confirm this. As well please be aware the hospital have sent a fax to your hotel reception with a fitness to travel certificate.
The certificate categorically states that ther is NO RISK in the patent (Brenda) flying
please collect this from the reception desk.
What soon became clear was 1. If the 2 additioanl seats were not available on our flight and we decided to take or original seats then we IR would not accept ANY liability.
We asked who IR’s medical team were and on what basis they had made their recommendation. To date we have not received an answer
Despite asking, have absolutely no idea which hotel the fax was sent two.
The certificate categorically states that there is NO RISK in the patent (Brenda) flying
IR’s next email read
Dear Mr Stephen
The two extra seats have been booked for Ms Stephen on her original flight departing later this evening.
Thomas Cook Booking ref: JCS7YX
TCX3877 Extra Seats x 2 Dalaman to Glasgow(TM) 2130 0020 23SEP (arrives 24SEP)
Cost per seat £204.00 x 2
Total: £408.00
Needless to say this caused even more stress. We had to confirm that the cost of these seats would be covered by our insurance.
What happened at the airport to follow if you can suffer any more of this ;)
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What a mess John and what stress this must have caused you both... We wait with interest for the next part of this sorry saga.
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At the Airport (NB we had finally managed to contact Thomas Cook Airlines Customer services who confirmed that wheelchairs had been arranged.)
I will keep this as short as I can.
Arrived at the airport in the pouring rain (not IR or TC’s fault to be fair).
Absolutely no sign of a wheelchair. Brenda managed somehow to hobble through the first security check after which we asked one of the security staff for a wheelchair. She made a phone call but no chair arrived.
Brenda bravely said that she would hobble over to check-in. A fair old way given her condition. There we found two Thomas Cook Reps.
I explained our situation but got absolutely nowhere. Their stock answer to my questions/ criticism was we are Package Holiday Reps – you are flight only so we cannot help. At which point I asked the stupid question of where the TC Airlines rep was.
Q: What problems, other than flight queries, might a Holiday Rep expect to be asked to deal with at an Airport Check-In
To be fair we were shown to the Priority Check-in. Sadly, the young man on the desk spoke next to no English. I explained that a wheelchair had been arranged but this was met with a blank stair. He did however summon a colleague who matter something before shuffling offer.
I then presented our Fit to Fly Certificate. Another bad mistake on my part. The young man had not the faintest idea what it was and even asked Brenda (in his limited English) if she was able to fly.
By this time Brenda was getting really sore so had to hobble over to some seating
Then went through the usual processes and were handed our Boarding Cards.
And NO !!!!! you are not getting a point for guessing that they were for our original seats with no word of the additional two seats.
At which point a gentleman arrived with not one but two wheelchairs.
I confess to losing the will to live at this point and told everyone involved with TC and Dalaman Airport, not in the politest of terms it should be said, to go and find something else to do and that I would sort it out on the aircraft if possible.
Unbelievably, the paperwork for the 2 additional seats WAS on board and shortly before take off Brenda was moved to her three seats.
There were a couple of issues on the flight but I won’t bore you with them.
Wheelchair at Glasgow available sometime after landing we were last off along with 4 other wheelchair users.
Brenda couldn’t manage the steps so had to wait for ambilift which had been diverted to an Easyjet flight.
And guess what – our cases were there when we got to baggage reclaim.
THE END
PS I received an email invitation to complete a Thomas Cook Airlines Customer Service Survey last evening.
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That was a real muckin fuddle to sort out John. Almost unbelieveable that the "package holiday" reps were refusing to help you. T.C really need to look at the f4nnies they are employing!!!. You'll need another holiday now lol. 8)
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I have re-read my last post and apologise for the glaring errors and would confirm that Brenda cannot in fact fly. ;)
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LOL. At least you've not lost your sence of humour. x
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Disgraceful, mess and T.C's behaviour was shocking, but for T.C. totally expected. I think you need to make an official complaint to T.C.
If I were you I would write to the Judge in the Sunday mail as you need an apology and compensation. We have used the Judge before and he is excellent and the publicity that T.C. get would be really good to read.
Brenda's condition could have been made more serious by this inept treatment.
I hope Brenda will made a full recovery and Phil and I send her all our good wishes.
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Jacqui - rest assured that there will be strong letters being sent to International Assistance, Thomas Cook Airlines and Saga.
On that matter, can someone tell me if Thomas Cook and Thomas Cook Airlines are separate companies or subsidiaries.
As an aside there were HUGE queues at the adjacent Monarch Check-In desks none of which were manned.
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We had big problems with T.C. three years ago and even complained to the Trading Standards. Thomas Cook were at that time the same place to complain as T.C.Airlnes and their Head Office is in Manchester. We had a call from them there after Trading Standards had spoken to them
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The problem of course will be getting those involved to accept blame/liability.
Thomas Cook Airlines:
Requesting Special Assistance On-line appears to be impossible outwith the EU.
Why do they have no representatives at Dalaman Airport to deal with flight only customers. After all we may have paid more for flights than others who paid for a one week package.
International Rescue Assistance:
Why did they not phone numbers we provided at Esnaf rather than send an email - we may not have had internet access and therefore would have been unaware of their "threat" of not accepting liability.
Who are their medical people on whose recommendations they acted and where did they get Brenda's medical records from.
Saga:
Why do they not state that they use an external company to repatriate their customers when required.
Is their 0800 number helpline free from outwith the UK.
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Sounds like a proper nightmare!
Did she not have any crutches or a walking frame?
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Brenda was provided with crutches by Esnaf at discharge.
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That's good. At least she's able to move around a bit then.
How long do they think the healing will take?
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Consultant at local hospital suggested that Brenda "leave it" of 4 or 5 weeks, resting as much as possible. :(
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If Brenda requires a wheelchair, you can contact Red Cross who will lend one. I recently got one for our daughter.
Poor woman must be in agony. Hope she has adequate pain control and gets better soon.
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Thanks for the information heather07 :)
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Just when we thought our holiday could not get any worse we checked into our Hotel in Glasgow....
(http://s13.postimg.org/c5hdn7p0j/hie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/c5hdn7p0j/)
I had requested a room close to the lifts when I booked the room on 24 July !!!!
I feel another complaint letter coming on >:( >:( >:(
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:o good grief, they couldn't have put you further away if they'd tried!
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The window is at the end of the corridor - our room is on the right :( :( :(
(http://s28.postimg.org/dujksqncp/corridor.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/dujksqncp/)
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Hi John just catching up on posts after 2 months away.
We are really sorry we missed you and to hear about your unfortunate experiences.We both wish Brenda a speedy recovery x
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Thanks pi55y - we did check at the shop and were told you were arriving around the same time we were leaving. :(
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There seemed to be no point in starting a new thread and there are so many other threads that I could decide between so I thought I'd post it here.
One of the few high points of our visit.
(http://s2.postimg.org/fd0hzrpz9/sunset2015.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fd0hzrpz9/)
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Update:
Confirmed as soft tissue damage - signed off for a month :(
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Glad to hear an update John, please give Brenda all our good wishes for a speedy recovery. :)
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It is of course totally impracticable but I would have liked nothing more than to send the present Mrs H back to Calis for a fortnight as part of her recuperation.
Without checking their website anyone care to guess how much a return Thomson flight from Glasgow would have cost ?
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Probably around £400.00 for a single return.
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It'll be crazy money because it's the October school holidays. :(
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But a lovely thought. :) hope it happens.
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If it coincides with half term it'll be an arm and a leg job! Lovely thought though H, :)
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We would have got £ 4.02 change out of seven hundred quid :(.
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Hope you booked it for her :)
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:o that's outrageous! Bet they don't sell many!
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The thing is Marina, they've probably sold loads and thats why these prices are carrying such a premium price. :-\
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Yes, probably Toky but it makes you wonder whether they'll sell the last few at that price or if they'd be more likely to sell at a sensible price : :)
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Extracts from response received from NHS Highland received today
“Both Consultant Radiologists (who examined the complaint) have identified the pathology and note that on examination the mal-aligned hemi-arthoplasty was clearly visible on the x-rays provided. The original reporting Consultant Radiologist would like to offer his apologies”.
“On behalf of the Radiology Team, Mr A****d would like to offer his sincere apologies for this error in the examination on this occasion and the images will be referred to the next Radiology Discrepancy meeting to highlight the pathology and the potential for misdiagnosis”.
The response went on to say ….
The doctor who saw Brenda on 09 November was asked to review his notes and the x-ray taken on 25 September 2015 In light of our complaint it was obvious that there was an abnormality clearly visible. The doctor fully accepted that he did not spot the problem at the time.
This being the case he wishes to apologise to your wife for not picking this up.
The Chief Executive, who signed the response also apologised for the extended period of discomfort undoubtedly experience by Brenda as a result of this important x-ray detail being missed.
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That's terribly difficult to read about John - and I don't even know you.
Your emotions must be all over the place - livid, upset, angry.....all of it.
The suffering unnecessarily endured for so long.
Thoughts with you and her and all best wishes to her for a speedy and satisfactory conclusion to this appalling situation.