Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: jiggs11 on September 10, 2014, 18:58:51 PM
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Hello everyone,
I am a new user to the forum so hope I have entered the correct place to post my question!
I have visited the Calis and Oludeniz area for the last few year's and I am looking to buy a property around the £80,000 range but this will be a holiday home not for permanent living. I was wondering if anyone know's how many weeks of the year you can rent out the property on average as will need quite a bit of income from the property as I will only be using it as a holiday home for a few weeks a year until I retire.
If anyone anyone can give me any idea it would be much appreciated.
Thanks
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jiggs 11
contact Cenk at www.interturkestates.com and he will advise you.He's a member of the Forum. :)
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.....as will need quite a bit of income from the property ..........
In reality, you're not going to make much from it. In fact you could well lose money on it in the first few years after you've paid for advertising, management, repairs and maintenance.
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If you plan to take out a mortgage to purchase in the hope of rentals paying it then I would forget it.
Site fees, management fees, cleaning costs and materials all need to be factored into the costs too. That is before advertising costs and general wear and tear come in to the equation.
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Also factor in accountant fees to do a Turkish tax return if renting
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And the Mavi Tax (Out of the Blue Tax that they make up now and again). Good luck with your plans but I used to tell clients that if they needed to rent it to make it viable then they shouldn't be buying. They'd agree then go and buy from somebody else :D
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I did once say on here that the only to make a small fortune in Calis is to start with a large one.
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We bought 9 years ago with the same idea, to rent out until retirement. However, we got as far as seeing an agent, but then changed our minds and glad we did. We fell in love with the Villa and could not bear the though of anyone else using it. Glad we did as the hassle of renting for very little return seems to be a real pain.
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To make an income to support a Buy to Let in Calis the rental charges need to double (which they won't).
Existing rental charges will just about pay for your overheads and may be for a few flights but they won't support any capital repayments.
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Ok thanks for the info would it make a difference if there was no mortgage so any money that comes in would be in your hand - the fess etc?
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You really do need to spend a lot more time researching this.
And if you think you can get away with "in your hand" payments, good luck with that.
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And if you are buying on a complex it,s common courtesy to inform the people that live there and Don,t want their place turned into an apart hotel. First hand experience of this, a new owner has has destroyed our retirement,and we now have our place on the market.
Really what you are also supposed to do is declare it as income to the Turkish tax man and your country of origin.
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The difficulty is that there are so many properties listed for summer lets in Calis/Ovacik etc - unless you have something out of the ordinary you'll have lots of competition - and as Phil says, rates are not what you'd hope in general. In Ovacik they are competing with hotels charging £4 a night as well as other property owners.
Then you have your taxes to declare (and if you don't and your renters are noisy and inconsiderate your neighbours will soon inform the tax office on your behalf). Then big electricity bills caused by renters putting it on arctic level and going out for the day, breakages, wear & tear, thefts, hassle, pool or maintenance costs - it won't leave a lot.
I have my Calisvilla site that lists Calis properties for holiday rental. There used to be nearly 100 on there on a pay a percentage on bookings (list for free) basis. I changed it to a flat fee and lost most of the properties because people didn't want to pay - and now we have a great little site where a decent number of enquiries are split between a small number of owners, not spread thinly over 100 - but it shows that in the main there are so many available for rent, and by people who maybe feel they don't have the income level from renting to pay to advertise.
My advice is to maybe look to cover costs by looking for long term let till you are ready to move. Rental values are way lower than for holiday lets but unlike short holiday rental, demand is huge locally, and supply isn't.
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I'd agree with Scunner, holiday lets do bring in more rent in the short term, but come with a load of problems, most of which have already been mentioned. You might get £300 - 400 per week but for how many weeks? and at what cost? With a long term let hopefully your tenants will treat the property with more respect as it is "their" home for while and "they" will be paying the utility bills.
I heard from a friend, just 2 weeks ago, that the tax man is doing the rounds of complexes in Calis asking people which apartment they are in and if they are renting etc. So which ever way you go you will need to declare your rental income in Turkey to the Turkish tax man.
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Just to add my thoughts, a lot depends on how much you need to make to cover your mortgage (if that is your intention). In the 3 years that we have been renting, July/August have been fully booked several months in advance and we get £450 per week for a very large, very nice (in my and renters opinion) 3 bed apartment. You can take off electric/cleaning/site fees. September is ok for the first 2/3 weeks and anything else is a bonus, so if you look at about 10 weeks rentals you won't be far out. If you pay cash for your apartment you can make some money - if you have a mortgage of anything over, say £40,000, you won't.
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We get 15 to 17 weeks rental every year. We have a cap for excessive electric use which saves us about £100 a year. We have no mortgage but site maintenance fees, cleaning fees, wear and tear, advertising and we pay tax. It breaks even and provides us with a couple of free flights a year. Don't bother unless you plan to spend time there yourself. You will fund your second home but you will not make a profit and with a mortgage no chance. Renters are sometimes a pain. Especially the ones that think because they paid for a week's rental that means they are entitled to trash the place! Other people's standards of living has been quite an eye opener...
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Excellent post Rachael - other people's standards can indeed be an eye opener. As can finding out how many people are actually staying in your property. Including ones picked up in the local bars and restaurants :o
How does your electricity cap work?
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Yes would love to know about electric cap, we have had a big electric bill for August even with saying to guests to be more careful with air-con , they have been in our apartment for last 3years and want to go again next year and do look after the property in other ways but need a way to approach them about it
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How does your electricity cap work?
Simplest way is for readings to be taken at start and finish of let - pretty sure All Aspects offer this. You decide what is fair usage and take the rest out of their deposit. As long as its made clear at the time of booking what the policy is, renters cant have too many arguments if they turn the place into the north pole for a week and are presented with the evidence, i.e. meter readings.
We've had this a couple of times with AirBNB properties - does encourage you to not take the p1ss.
JF
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As per JohnF's post we take a reading when they arrive and again when they leave. For a 3 bed apartment fully occupied by 6 people they should not be using more than 140000 unit a week. That figure is based on an average taken from 12 months worth of bookings so it is fair. Just remember to put it in your terms and conditions so people know before they book. When we first started doing this we had a couple of renters have tantrums when they realised it was not unlimited and I was taking £30 out of their breakages deposit.
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In all honesty at the best you will at best pay the running cost of the house or apartment plus a few flight
Cost in a year.
At worst you will lose money and never do it again.