Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: SuzzPuss on September 17, 2013, 19:59:57 PM
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So, the Lib Dems have 'managed' to negotiate a deal with the Tories so that every child in England between reception and year 2 will get free school meals. I'm confused, surely children in poverty already qualify so is this not just subsidising affluent families? I understand that some children living in poverty don't currently qualify for the free school meals. If it's possible to discover that then surely it must be possible to move the current parameters so that they do qualify. There must better things to spend the money on than that. >:(
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Possibly, but you don't have to earn big bucks to not be eligible for free school dinners for your kids. On relatively low income, and two kids @ £1.80 a day (that is the cost here I think) - you will need to be finding £36 a week (£144 a month+) so whilst it is quite obviously not equivalent to a nutritionally balanced hot meal - it is little wonder so many kids are packed off with beef paste sandwiches, crisps and a kitkat.
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Fair enough but then shifting the goal posts would seem like a good option. It's the blanket assumption that everyone needs them that the problem I think. And if, as has been suggested on the news, people are giving their kids junk food for lunch then an education programme might be a better use for the money. I don't mean the people doing that for financial reasons, I'd hope they'd start getting the meals if the goal posts were moved. I mean the people who can well afford to send the kids with a healthy meal.
I've been a peripatetic music teacher for years. I know exactly what schools think are healthy meals... :P Hehe! I favour a sandwich every time...
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I've been a peripatetic music teacher for years.
Is that like Deep House Bangin' Trance dude, innit ? Fo' sure !
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Sick!
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Slammin' !
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'That's phat, brotha!
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I is cuttin' up de rug mutha !
I is Krumpin' !!
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I'll have to ban you two soon
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I say old chap, that's a tad unfair ! What ?
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Is it cos I is black? 8)
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Yes
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;D
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No, you is a Wansta ! You wanna be black bro' !
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Children, children come on now! (talking of School) The itinerant musician has a point :) (hmm itinerant -- peripatetic sounds better doesn't it?? :) )
EEEeee, when I were a lad we got free milk and reet good free dinners at School and me Mam and Dad could never have afforded the prices today! (I vaguely remember Orange Juice in the mix somewhere?) There was the situation in past years where "Mam" was a homemaker and rarely worked so kids close to school could go home for lunch, that has gone sadly. This is a more complex issue than it seems, our Society changed radically in the 1960's away from one of the majority receiving relatively low wages but enjoying a lot of state subsidies to assist them, toward one of reasonable salaries and paying your own way, ending up today with a scrambling dog eat dog uncaring tread on anyone and lie about everything one, better isn't it????? Isnt it????
We are approaching a tipping pointy of reversion where the few live incredibly well and those on reasonable standards find themselves moving inexorably toward a poverty line, we have embraced "the American Way" where you can lie, steal, rape and probably murder if you are wealthy------------- just don't get caught being poor!
I agree that "the wealthy" do not need such subsidies, and they wont send their kids to state schools anyway, but for £144 a month I would expect to be able to feed a child quite a wonderful School Lunch if such things as buying and menu standards were properly carried out. Now for 2 children, £144 a month from the average family budget is a LOT of money! I can understand that people would be reluctant to spend that unless they knew that a) it was nutritious and enough of it and b) they would eat it! (got to look and smell nice too!).
The thing is this is another case of dumbing down and artificial standard creation. There could only be a few reasons that this would be awarded to all children during their first years:-
There is general concern at the health of small children -- doubt that is it
Nobody must be known to being assisted -- kids don't care about things like that! Adults cause those prejudices not children -- we had loads of kids at School who would shout out "free dinners miss" when the money was collected.
A cheap shot at vote winning -- the most likely!
I would rather see us spending some tax cash on going back to free milk for Children at least to age 14 regardless of income, free school meals for parents below a certain income level, (cash collection via direct debit or monthly bill for others -- then any kids who do get them free wouldn't be known?) but above all a national change in management. It can be done, look at the Military and NAAFI who purchase just about all the food served in Military Mess everywhere. Intelligent buying and proper menu can produce a good cooked lunch for children at a lot less than it is costing now, but it needs real commitment for at least a 5 year period!
Its not funny being poor, believe me, and those free meals need to be for as long as that family need them, not just 2 years which will be the next "trick" once they have won a few cheap votes.
It really is true that the last man to enter the Houses of Parliament with honest intentions was probably one
Guido Ffaulkes -- better know to you all as Guy Fawkwes!
I don't like our Society at all, and I like the lying conniving pocket lining b*****ds who call themselves Politicians the least of all!
Up the Revolution Brothers and Sisters!
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Yeah, that's what I meant innit?
John, great answer. You've voiced all the thoughts that were going through my mind last night. I imagine the cost of staffing and cooking the dinners must be included in that £144 a month or the food would have to be amazing to justify it! And your 2 children in one family point is a good one too but could easily be addressed. I was brought up in a family which would have qualified for free school meals so I do understand what an amazing help that all is but I just feel it's been mishandled here. Your 'cheap shot at vote winning' thought probably has hit the nail on the head and the idea that they might drop the whole thing in a couple of years is sickening. :(
It's so sad about politicians. They have the opportunity to make a real difference but...
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At my grandchildren's school there is a breakfast club which was started for the children on low incomes. There used to be about 30 children using the facility. It was opened up to everyone about 6 months ago and now half the school are using it..
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I just wish that poor little chap who was killed by the scum he had the misfortune to live with had free school dinners. It really breaks my heart to think of him searching through bins. I don't know how those that failed him can sleep at night. (apologies for going off topic slightly!)
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It's not entirely off-topic Angela. Actually it's a good point. Mmm... If giving free school dinners to everyone stops one little kid having to do that then maybe it's worth it after all.
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It's a fairly poor civilisation where we don't provide hard up people with things because it means wealthy people might get them too.
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Very true, although that isn't actually what I said. I'm all for helping people who need it and do quite a lot of charity stuff to that end. I'd like to make the perimeters significantly wider instead of blanket.
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A cheap political stunt aimed at winning votes for sure and I agree with everything else that John said too.
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It doesn't make it clear in the press whether this will be afforded to children at independant schools as well as state schools, or whether it will be means tested, or whether those who have had child benefit stopped as they are high earners will be included. As Nicola says, cheap tricks, but those that are genuinely in need will still miss out and not just on food
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I'm all for just giving it to those in need but to be honest it's probably much cheaper NOT to means test it. If we look at similar attempts to means test in the past and how much gets wasted trying to sort out who qualifies for what then just giving it to everyone will probably be the cheapest option.
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And don't forget some people who are means tested and found they are too well off to qualify may not be if they have to find £144 a month (or more). So we create a situation where the rich can pay, the poor don't have to and the average are the ones who feel the tightening effect again.
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Quite correct Scunner!
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I don't want to change the topic but wouldn't it be better to significantly raise the minimum wage, do away with zero hours contract and implement and enforce polices that ensured employers paid people a realistic living wage relevant to the cost of living for their labour.
There are millions of children living in households that have earnings below the poverty line many parent/s work more than one job and still don't manage to lift themselves out of the poverty trap. It is always the poorest that are affected and suffer the most and are the least able to change their circumstances.
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Absolutely agree with that Nicola.
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Here, here, Nichola, well said .
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Brilliant Nichola.
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Problem is Nichola, if you raise the wages and get rid of zero hours, etc how are you going to make those parents give the kids money for their school meals?
I understand where you are coming from but giving those on low wages enough to be able to pay for school meals doesn't mean it will happen. This way it's guaranteed every child gets a meal no matter what their parents do with their income.
In an ideal world everyone would have enough money to provide for their kids but it still wouldn't mean they all would.
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I should have said that I'm in favour of non means tested state funded healthy and nutritional school meals and indeed breakfast clubs for children of it means ensuring our children eat at least one decent meal a day.
Because the majority of people do actually work (in spite of what we led to believe) the problems facing both parents and children are compound by the nature of the working environment we have come to accept as normal when in fact it is not normal but exploitative and increasingly advantageous for the employer at the expense of the employee.
In order to 'get on' there is an expectation that people should work longer hours and those extra hours put in can often be unpaid. People often commute long distances adding hours to the working day and in an increasingly 'open 24 hours' society the demand for people to work unsocial hours also increases.
Poorer people are more likely to end up in low incomes jobs working unsocial hours and if they are on zero hour contracts expected to be on call at the drop of a hat and those in better paid jobs will often have to travel or work longer hours.
The victims in all of this are the children and the very least we can do is provide them with a decent meal.
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The victims in all of this are the children and the very least we can do is provide them with a decent meal.
Yes that is exactly the point and by far the most important one. But raising minimum wage levels won't ensure this. Sadly in too many cases it is fags and Sky Sports that are the priority.
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I think we should do both :)
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"Sadly in too many cases it is fags and Sky Sports that are the priority"
I was going to say exactly that Scunner but didn't fancy the flak last night :)
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I think 'fags and Sky sports' is a wee bit on the harsh side. Not every parent puts themselves and their enjoyment before that of their kids.
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No I agree and that is why I said "in too many cases" rather than "always". The point is that often people with not much money are not always the best to decide on how to prioritise their spending. If you give people free school meals for their kids, the kids will get free school meals. If you give them the equivalent amount as extra benefit or wages, the kids *might* get school meals - and therefore it is not as effective a way of doing things.
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I just wish that poor little chap who was killed by the scum he had the misfortune to live with had free school dinners. It really breaks my heart to think of him searching through bins. I don't know how those that failed him can sleep at night. (apologies for going off topic slightly!)
Actually its worse, his mother asked them not feed him and stop other children giving him food as he head a rare eating disorder, I await her execution in Prison with some excitement!
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Been an interesting debate and given me and the lads in "The Worsley Popular Front" (Well its popular with us all in the saloon bar of the Old Boat House) some thought to our manifesto! Also reminded me of some less happy times and however tough it is now it cant come close to how tough it was for my Parents in the 1940's and early 1950's but as has been said, its our sick society where new Flat screen TV's and New Cars take priority over caring for their children for some people. I agree it would be great if we just provided School Meals to all anyway, but if we cant how on earth can you decide who should and should not get them??
Change -- but no MP wants change, might stop their perks --- like smoking in the Bar, isn't that sick, I don't smoke any more, but why should the entire Country not be able to smoke in the bar -- except MP's! ????Aha another Debate!!!!! :)
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I think we should do both :)
So Free school meals and free fags n sky sports. ;)
I have to agree in all seriousness that the free meals option is better than means tested or extra benefits as all children can have a decent meal rather than their parents taking the money for themselves.
I hear so many stories from my wife who works in an infant/primary school about selfish and seemingly uncaring parents.
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Another topic maybe but....
Can you imagine the influx of even more immigrants if we were to give every child in the country free meals?
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No!
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Who can possibly say that by the state providing free school meals that these meals will be the healthy and balanced.
Having spent some time in schools over the years some of the food I have seen did not appear to be at all healthy, free or otherwise.
Pizza & chips, chicken nuggets & chips the odd vegetable baked beans.........
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Agreed, but again it isn't all about giving kids the best, it's about seeing that the greatest number of kids get something daily. I think schools are a lot better now than just a few years ago. When we moved to Scotland the girls were given a school dinners timetable/menu and we were almost drooling reading it :D
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I doubt anyone can say they will be I would just say that I am in favour of them being healthy and nutritional :)
Didn't the campaign run by Jamie Oliver have an impact on the quality of school meals where they are served? I thought it had!
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And just what is wrong with good nutritious Gruel Mr. Bumble???