Author Topic: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?  (Read 3547 times)

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Offline johntaylor49

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Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« on: August 08, 2014, 11:05:06 AM »
Well now, as it is the summer felt it would be even better to have more cats among the Pigeons -- very relevant when you see my 2nd subject -- and get some real Debate, Well?

Lets start with some basic History but not enough to spoil debate:-

Britain founded the state of Israel effectively with the Balfour Mandate
When the British left "Palestine" they handed over all the forts and heavy weapons to the Arab League
In 1948 the "Arabs" invaded Israel and were defeated
In 1967 they tried again and were soundly defeated and a lot of Arab lands occupied -- such as Gaza and the West Bank of the Jordan River
in 1973 they tried again and got back some territory and since then numerous treaties resulting in the
Formation of the State of Palestine on the much reduced land area

Off we all go then  :)








Offline Jacqui Harvey

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 13:18:18 PM »
I find it ironic that Obama is so worried about Iraq he is willing to send arms to help these poor people.  However, he did not lift a finger to help the poor people of Gaza.

Offline kevin3

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 14:16:23 PM »
Obama's appealing for worldwide help to pay for the rebuilding of Gaza.

America funded it's destruction so that's the place to pick up the bill.

Or deduct it from Israel's annual handout from the good ol' USA.     >:(

Offline nichola

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 17:01:21 PM »
OK I'll bite.

First let me start by saying that the Jews have been persecuted for ever. Israel is the only nation with borders created for people based on a religion.

It is understandable after the horrific fate so many Jews during the 2nd WW suffered that the "powers" felt that something should be done to protect them as a race and provide a homeland where Jews from around the world could go, live and settle amongst their own in peace.

They have never had that before, or since as in fact as JT points out the resentment and actions from Arab nations over a period of years demonstrates.

Was it a mistake, was it justifiable, to take away one homeland to create another? We can debate that forever.

However I personally can not condone the sort of violence we have seen perpetrated against the Palestinian people who are also victims, victims of displacement because of the creation of Israel.

The Palestinians live in a prison where anything and everything they get from food, water, medical supplies, cement etc first has to be agreed by Israel. Unlike Israel they don't have an iron dome which they can use to block weapons fired on them by Israel, which is why there are so few Israeli casualties. No wonder the Palestinians build tunnels; it's a means of smuggling in all kinds of things they are otherwise denied.

I am of the view that the Jewish people do live in a state of perpetual fear, a fear created largely by their own government. They get 3billion US$ every year from the States alone, which they use to buy weapons, from the US.

There is hell of a lot of money in war and weapons and while this is the case there will never be peace here or anywhere else in the world. There is no profit in peace.

Until people say enough is enough we can expect to see more of the same the world over whether it's Israel, Ukraine, Somalia, Libya, you name it!



Offline GordonA

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 18:19:05 PM »
Short answer to your original question John,; as long as the USA is OWNED by jews,  NO !!

Offline KKOB

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 19:35:37 PM »
This video by Pat Condell is worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ugsv5u-sW0

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 12:21:26 PM »
Oi Vey Gordon I am sure you didn't mean that "it is all the fault of the Jews" etc. Nichola well your views are interesting but actually giving a homeland to the Jews had nothing to do with the Holocaust, the Balfour Mandate was passed in November 1917 ---

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

When Israel was established in 1948 the first that that happened was their Arab neighbours, who obviously also believed in the extracts from the Mandate of " nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." --- attacked them with an avowed statement of "sweeping them into the sea!  So much for tolerance on their side!


Israel buys arms with money from the US to defend itself?, Hamas buys arms on the black market to attack Israel?, Hamas fights to be free of Israeli Control and Israel blockades Gaza? Israel only blockades Gaza because Hamas keep firing rockets from Gaza? Question is can they ever live together? Is there an end? Not while Hamas refuses to recognise the right of Israelis to live and Israel blockades Gaza.

In actual fact as nearly one third of the Israeli  males under 30 don't work as they are "studying" Judaism and this is a growing number unless they change their attitudes drastically there wont be anyone to fight anyway  :)

I don't like the blunt instrument of Israel, but I wouldn't like people tunnelling down my street and firing rockets at me either!  :) If I was in Gaza I don't think I would like Hamas firing missiles from my Children's Schoolyard, the Hospital we use etc. either! We just had a 72 hour truce, broken by ......................Hamas.

Has anyone noticed how quiet the Palestinian Government in Hebron has been?



Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 12:27:41 PM »
This video by Pat Condell is worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ugsv5u-sW0
People hate hearing what they don't like! But the truth is the truth -- there is evidence to back up almost all his claims. Thing is, its easy to criticise from an armchair --- I have lived and travelled all over the middle east and you get a different view then!

Offline nichola

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 16:10:20 PM »
The Balfour Mandate may have been passed in November 1917 but it was after the 2nd WW in 1948 that Israel was created. I know governments are slow to act but the timing 31 years later is surely more than a coincidence.

Offline johntaylor49

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Re: Gaza and Israel-- will there ever be peace?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 12:12:00 PM »
Well, as usual Politics is one thing and promises are another! Britain actively promoted immigration of Jewish people into Palestine, and actively recruited from there for the Military in WW2, however it was still "Palestine" under British Rule. The trouble came when the British decided to leave, and decided that in order to placate the Arab peoples that they would play it down and even prevent Jewish immigration despite their earlier promises. Meanwhile the displaced Jews of Europe wanted the Homeland they had been promised and ran the Blockade (Blockade -- what! You mean the British Blockaded "Palestine"?  :) ) whilst there was plenty of room there greed and politics took over and the non-Jewish Palestinians saw an opportunity to control. For that reason David Ben Gurion and his followers fought a War of Independence against the British (known as the Haganah) who eventually agreed there should be a separate State of Israel and Palestine but wouldn't hang around to ensure it was completed. The rest -- as they say is History.

Can they ever live together, perhaps the only way is by force, investment and aid conditional upon both sides following rules? Eventually people do live side by side, albeit under tensions such as Bosnia and Serbia where there were Myriad reasons for their Historical hatreds. Or is it impossible, I have no answers but the Debate idea was to see if anyone else has?


John




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