Refugees found dead in truck

[usedbustickets]

The fundamental question for me is when does a refugee become an economic migrant?  For the sake of brevity here I will stick to those fleeing from Syria, although the principle equally applies to others coming from, for example, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, and Somalia.

When those fleeing the war in Syria escaped to Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon they were genuine refugees seeking a safe haven, and they got it in all three of those countries.  When they then decide to move on to other countries they then become - in my head - economic migrants.  However those we now see making this step are not content to make an application for migration to other countries from the safe haven country, they CHOOSE to risk their own safety - and worst still their childrens - utilising all sorts of lawless methods, including the use and payment of criminal gangs, to bust their way into Europe and then on to their preferred  'target' state, usually Germany, Sweden, NL and if they have a chance the UK.  And when they embark on this journey I am sorry to say, they lose all sympathy from me.  Particularly when they choose, for example, to go to Europe instead of the Gulf States where they do speak the same language ... having said that the Saudis, UAE etc. have hardly been rolling out the red carpet for their fellow (islamic) arabs!!

And my heart goes out to the child, and others similarly lost in this rush to economic safety of Europe.  As I have said before on other subjects involving children, I can only blame the stupid parents who would risk their children in this way.

Yes Europe should be helping these people in these war zones, or more particularly when they are refugees in neighbouring countries.  However, let's not forget Europe is in large part one of the causes of the problem when it has supported war in these countries, supporting one evil side or the other, and often acting militarily, especially the UK ... STAND UP BLAIR/STRAW for Iraq..STAND UP CAMERCON/HAGUE for Libya, Syria leading to new despotic regime of one kind or another in Iraq, Syria, Eygpt, Libya or an equally bad or worst opposition such as ISIL.  And this generally allows those neighbouring country's leaders like Reg to believe they can behave in a similar brutal manner.

I could go on, but I need to go and put a cold wet towel on my head, cos this whole bloody mess makes me so angry.  Did none of our smart politicians with all their current knee jerk reactions not see this coming from a long, long way off??

[Jacqui Harvey]

Seeing this child dead on the beach was awful, however, it is not Europes fault.  The root cause is the greedy traffickers who take the money from these people and then don't care what happens to them.  I heard this morning that the child, his 6 year old brother and his mothere were all drown.   They had left the coast near Bodrum for Greece, which was only 10 miles away and could be seen from the beach. 
It is time that Europe pulled out all the stops to find these evil traffickers and also, these innocent people should be warned just what will happen when they hand over their money.   

[Piscoe]

I too was deeply shocked and saddened at the images of that poor little boy. My thoughts go out to them and their poor father and the poor Policeman who will probably have nightmares for months!! As the facts unfold what I have found more disturbing than anything is that they set off from Turkey where they weren't in any danger whatsoever. I guess their motive was for a better life in Europe but hang on a minute, who would risk their childrens lives to this desperate fashion to go from Turkey to Greece?? I seriously don't get it. Are the Turks telling them to move on or they will be sent back to Syria? I don't think this is the case so I am finding this harder and harder to comprehend.

[Colwyn]

they set off from Turkey where they weren't in any danger whatsoever ....  Are the Turks telling them to move on or they will be sent back to Syria? I don't think this is the case so I am finding this harder and harder to comprehend.

There are a large number of Syrian Kurds fleeing from ISIS terror which I believe this family were.. Erdogan doesn't want any more Kurds in Turkey. We have seen how Turkish police can behave on Erdogan's instruction.

[JohnF]

The fundamental question for me is when does a refugee become an economic migrant?  For the sake of brevity here I will stick to those fleeing from Syria, although the principle equally applies to others coming from, for example, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, and Somalia.

When those fleeing the war in Syria escaped to Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon they were genuine refugees seeking a safe haven, and they got it in all three of those countries. 

Not so sure life in some of these camps could be considered a safe haven, especially those in Lebanon.  The conditions in the Jordanian camps are pretty dire also, serious overcrowding, violence and often shortages of food.  Turkey doesn't want them, so where do they go?

However, let's not forget Europe is in large part one of the causes of the problem when it has supported war in these countries, supporting one evil side or the other, and often acting militarily, especially the UK ... STAND UP BLAIR/STRAW for Iraq..STAND UP CAMERCON/HAGUE for Libya, Syria leading to new despotic regime of one kind or another in Iraq, Syria, Eygpt, Libya or an equally bad or worst opposition such as ISIL.  And this generally allows those neighbouring country's leaders like Reg to believe they can behave in a similar brutal manner.

Cannot disagree with anything you've said there.

JF

[Colwyn]

If you think that the UK ought to take more refugees from Syria you might consider signing this petition to Parliament (for UK citizens or residents).
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991

[usedbustickets]

Why keep it to Syrian refugees, why not Afghanistan, Somalian, Pakistani, Libyan and Iraqi too, we've been directly involved in recent wars/military conflicts in all these places too?  But then why keep it to the diaspora of those particular nations, why not extend it to any nation we have had a war in or over, nah sod it let's take anyone who claims to be a refugee.  My only caveat to that is that they can only come in if they take the jobs, housing, school places, social services and health services - all increasingly rare commodities for working class people these days - of politicians, misguided bleeding heart liberals and of course their families too.  And then 'dump' them all in select neighbourhoods, let's see Islington (former working class borough now home of the enlightened chattering classes, Yvette Coopers Constituency, Notting Hill to think of a few.  You can bet your life some of those suggesting this would not be so keen to do so then.

[Highlander]

There has been a huge upsurge of sympathy for the "refugees" who have fled Syria and other areas of conflict.

These people have been in the "fortunate" position of being able to pay the evil traffickers to try and escape.

But what about the poor people in Syria who do not have that option.

So when "we" are taking the moral high ground regarding those on Europe's borders lets not forget those who cannot flee such conflicts.

We need to help them too. Maybe more so.

[nichola]

I defy anyone who hasn’t lived this situation to presume to know what they would or wouldn’t do or what risks they would be prepared to take in these exact same circumstances.

It’s almost impossible to imagine what life is like living among the dead and rubble of a war torn country with bombs exploding and gun fire going on all around you.

The neighbouring countries that do their best to accommodate 1.9 million refugees in Turkey alone, another with more than 600,000 in Jordan and 1 million to Lebanon – a country whose population is just 4 million are doing so in conditions that are becoming unsustainable. Conditions are strained and reaching breaking point.

As aid has started to dry up from governments and charitable giving there is less and less food for increasing numbers of people. Seven hundred thousand children in Lebanon and Turkey don’t receive any schooling and many work for a few dollars a day.

How long would you wait in hope for salvation or an end to the Syrian conflict in a tent in the middle of a camp with few facilities watching your children grow up living effectively in conditions akin to or worse than a prison! One week, one month, one year, FOUR years...

A Turkish refugee camp



A refugee camp in Jordan

[nichola]

What is needed is a solution.

Isn’t it is well past the time that the UN stepped in and set up reception centres and coordinated the relocation of refuges in a planned and humane way. And as for deciding who takes who and how many I would start with those countries that have supplied and gained from the selling of arms to Syria since 2011 and match them $ for $.