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General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: stoop on January 10, 2018, 11:31:47 AM

Title: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 10, 2018, 11:31:47 AM
Never an easy topic to discuss for fear of being branded racist but recently we had a 60 year old lady raped in York. Evidently she was approached by a man in the centre and they both walked for quite a while. Here's the press release:

Posted on 4 January 2018 at 15:38pm in News stories

Police investigating a serious sexual assault have released a description of the suspect.

A woman in her 60s was attacked in York on Tuesday, 2 January.

Detectives have today renewed their appeal for information as further details of the suspect have come to light.

He is described as around 5ft 9ins or 5ft 10ins tall and of thin build, with dark hair and a dark, olive complexion.

He possibly had a well-groomed beard.

He was wearing a dark-coloured baseball cap, with dark clothing and jeans.

The victim was with the man at around 7pm near Lendal Bridge. She then walked with the man, down the side of the River Ouse in the direction of Scarborough Bridge, passing the Esplanade car park and the Post Office building on her left hand side.

The victim and the man then crossed over Scarborough Bridge and, once over the bridge, continued walking alongside the river, out of town towards the back of St Peter’s school and Clifton Bridge.

When they approached the back of St Peter’s school, the man subjected the woman to a serious sexual and physical assault and stole money from her.

Detective Inspector Alan Rowan, who is leading the investigation for North Yorkshire Police, said: “Anyone who thinks they may know this man, or saw anyone matching his description in the area around the time of the incident, needs to come forward.

“This was a horrendous attack on a vulnerable woman, and any information, no matter how insignificant it may seem, could be very valuable to our investigation.”

Anyone with information should contact North Yorkshire Police on 101, select option 1 and speak to the Force Control Room. Please quote reference 12180001044.

Alternatively, Crimestoppers can be contacted anonymously on 0800 555 111.



My question at the time was did she speak with him (they did walk a fair way together) and what about his accent? It wasn't answered.

Today we get this release from them:

29-year-old Abrar Khan from #York has appeared in court charged with rape and robbery in relation to an attack in York on the evening of 2 January. He has been remanded in custody to appear at court again on 5 Feb. A man in his 30s arrested on 5 Jan will face no further action.

OK - it says he's from York but my question is why did they not release more details about him? Does he have a Yorkshire accent or not? Surely that would have enabled him to be caught sooner? How far should the police go to protect rapists - whatever their colour? If he had been a white man with a Scottish accent would they not have stated this?

Local rumour has it he's not actually from York but that he is staying in a local bail hostel. I have no idea if this is correct or not but the one mentioned is not too far from where the attack happened.

Any thoughts on this? Do the police have a right to withhold info if they think it might cause unrest in the city (York is probably one of the most forgiving cities in Yorkshire I think)? I guess I already know the answer to that.

Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Anne on January 10, 2018, 12:14:13 PM
It's not just York Stoop.  It seems to be the norm when reporting on any crime now.
I noticed it months back when there was a spate of rapes here in Glasgow.  'Could have been olive skinned or of middle eastern heritage'  That covers all sorts doesn't it? 
Just my opinion, but I think it is wrong.  They should report the facts, be the suspect, black, white or yellow.  The public have the right to have as much information as is reasonably allowed without prejudicing the case.  More information about the ethnicity of said suspect released would, I hope, catch the perpetrator quickly and save from repeat offences.

Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Colwyn on January 10, 2018, 14:23:41 PM
This is a bit OTT folks: what on earth is all the fuss about? The witness described her attacker. If he had been white or black then he the police should have described him as being white or black. But apparently he wasn't. Presumably the witness described him as having dark olive colouring so that is how the police described him. I agree "dark olive" could cover a lot of ethnicities - from North Africa, through the Middle East to, perhaps India, Sri Lanka or Pakistan. How was the witness supposed to be able to say? She wasn't even sure whether he had a beard or not.

Not a good enough description? What? The attack took place 2nd January and an arrest was made today (10 January). Pretty good going N.Yorkshire Police - if you've got the right bloke. We'll start to find that out when it goes to court on 5 February. I don't know why you are getting a kicking for your doing your job, getting an arrest and taking it to trial. Apparently you've done something wrong along the way. I hope you haven't and the man who did this is banged up for a good stretch.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: kevin3 on January 10, 2018, 15:51:42 PM



           In a nutshell,   Rotherham. 
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Colwyn on January 10, 2018, 15:55:56 PM
I believe Rotherham is under the remit of S.Yorks Police - historically possibly the worst UK Police Service outside the Met.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 10, 2018, 17:59:29 PM
My question was why didn't they mention his accent? Assuming the women isn't deaf I would expect this to be mentioned if she spoke with him. Judging by the length of time she was with him I assume he spoke.

Yes they got their man but it might have happened quicker had they given a full description.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Steve A on January 10, 2018, 19:43:47 PM
Having experience of this type of investigation and press release I will say that the Police release enough information to pique public interest but without jeopardising the investigation.Sometimes the info is drip fed in a series of releases dependant upon initial public response .This is after all a witness appeal not a warning to the public.
If there was someone out there that was genuinely felt to be a danger to the public iam certain the appropriate warning and description would be given.
Remember the press release is only a very small part of the overall investigation and not all releases are published,it depends what else is in the news
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 11, 2018, 00:13:58 AM
If there was someone out there that was genuinely felt to be a danger to the public iam certain the appropriate warning and description would be given

So you are saying a rapist isn’t a danger to the public?

Now I’ve heard it all!
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 11, 2018, 09:03:47 AM
Today on FB:

⚠️ Urgent - please share - particularly in the York and Humberside areas ⚠️

We are urgently appealing to find Elizabeth Jowitt, who is missing from York.

She is described as white, of slim build, 5ft 2ins tall, with mousey/light brown unkempt hair below shoulder length, brown eyes and a Yorkshire accent.

Extensive police searches have taken place in York tonight.

Anyone who sees Elizabeth, or knows where she is, is asked to contact North Yorkshire Police straight away on 101, quoting reference number 12180005594.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: KKOB on January 11, 2018, 13:46:26 PM
Calling 101 if she's spotted outside of the North Yorkshire area won't be of much help. Isn't there a proper number to use ?
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Steve A on January 11, 2018, 18:08:44 PM
Stoop I never said that a rapist is not a danger to the general public,you need to read that in context.However multiple rapists are few and far between and their pattern of offending is not to randomly attack a series of women in a spree.They are careful to plan,time,day,date,location etc .
As stated earlier the investigators will know what the need to release and when,if there as a danger a warning would be given.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 13, 2018, 12:56:58 PM
Fair enough Steve but my point stands and is proven by the fact they mentioned the lady’s accent in the later press release.

I’m pretty certain why they refused to mention it in the rapist link and I think it stinks of PC.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: Colwyn on January 13, 2018, 13:55:29 PM
I've also got an idea why it wasn't mentioned - and it has damn all to do with PC.
Title: Re: Are the police correct when they withhold information about an attacker?
Post by: stoop on January 14, 2018, 10:20:55 AM
I've also got an idea why it wasn't mentioned - and it has damn all to do with PC.

Go on then enlighten us.