Author Topic: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...  (Read 596 times)

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Offline JohnF

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Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« on: January 12, 2018, 16:57:38 PM »
Over the past few months I've had a few emails/PM's from folks asking about Spain, as in cost of living, house prices etc.  I also know a few folks who have already moved to Spain from Turkey and a few others are looking at Spain as their next destination so thought I'd make a few obserations as to what I see as the advantages/disadvantages of Spain, an EU country versus Turkey as I know it.  Feel free to add your thoughts.

I can really only talk about our neck of the woods, Cadiz province, which stretches from just after Estepona on the Costa del Sol in the east along to Cadiz and Jerez in the West.  Prices and processes vary from province to province, and local councils often have their own little quirks to add to the adventure.

House prices:  There is no doubt that property prices are higher in Spain than Turkey, a two or three bedroom apartment in a decent area will cost from €40,000 or thereabouts.  We've seen them for less, but these tend to be out in the periphery of towns, often in high rise blocks.  A three bed apartment (80-100 m2) in a nice block close to the centre will be closer to €60,000.

If you're willing to do a bit of work, in most towns and cities there are a lot of cheap properties - the current trend appears to be that Spaniards prefer living outwith the city centre where they can have a garden and parking isn't such an issue.  You see the evidence on a Sunday afternoon with folks dropping the granny/mother back in town before battering off to their 75m2 little box in the suburbs.

I know of several properties (houses) in our neighborhood, all 250m2 plus, that could be purchased for circa €120,000.  Ok, they will need work but with a good builder (and they are out there) you'll end up with a cracking property.

Alternatively, there are a lot houses in the 150m2 category for sale, ready to move into for circa €100,000.  Many of these will have roof terraces and internal patios, essential for summer temperatures here.

For the try before you buy experience, rentals are cheap - one or two bedroom apartments start of around €250/275 per month for a simple apartment rising to around €500 for a modern apartment with integral garage.  Houses vary depending on location and facilities, but kick off from around €400.

The buying process has similarities with Turkey in that very often folks do it themselves without using a lawyer.  Its all done at the notars office as opposed to the deeds office and the money is handed over then - certified bank cheque only in Cadiz, no cash allowed!  In my opinion, the overall process is pretty straightforward and if you do engage a lawyer, he will act in your best interest as they are far more strictly regulated than in Turkey.

Utilities: Definitely more expensive than Turkey.  Council tax (I.B.I.) rates are set by each local authority and are a percentage of your properties cadastral value (rateable value).  We pay €391 per annum for a 400m2 property so its a lot less than the UK but a lot more than Turkey.

Electricity and water again vary from region to region. In Jerez the water company also has responsibility for rubbish collection so we are paying roughly €25 per month just now, €11.50 of that is for waste removal, the rest our water consumption which is obviously variable. Electricty is a killer, we were €86 for December in a two bed flat, 'nuff said I reckon.

Community charges (aidat) are fairly low - ours is €30pm which includes all communal electricy, cleaning of communal areas and the repair and servicing of the garage lift and the lift between floors.  I know folks that pay a lot less in buildings without lifts.

Transport:  Like Turkey, secondhand cars are expensive when you have your UK head on - something that you'd look to pay £750-£1,000 for in the UK will set you back €3,000 here!  New cars are cheaper than their UK counterparts list prices and there are always promotions and incentives available - we're not sure what we're going to do when we get rid of our UK car in a few months time, given the prices and the issues with parking in Jerez we might not bother with a car and simply hire one as necessary.

Fuel prices vary quite a bit, we paid €1.07 (before our discount) last week for diesel, unleaded was €1.15.  You can save by using loyalty cards, we get 8% off by  using a Carrefour Club Card or fill up when close to Gibraltar, £0.87 for diesel - cant remember what unleaded was.

Insurance appears to be cheap, you insure the vehicle not the driver - that said, a new car may be a lot more than we're paying for our old banger!

Public transport is cheap and, as long as you're not going to or from the airport (surcharges apply), taxis are cheaper than the Fethiye area, but more expensive than Istanbul.  Local trains are pretty reasonable but for longer distances, just like in the UK, the further ahead you book it the cheaper it is.  A return from Jerez to Sevilla can vary between €11.50 to €17.00 depending on when you book and when you travel - journey takes about an hour and is about 90km.  Trains are clean and usually pretty punctual - seats are allocated automatically when you buy a ticket, no standing allowed apparantly.

I'll do food and drink in a couple of days, I've just got a hold of the latest Carrefour brochure for Turkey so will have a look at that and compare with the one for Spain - not very scientific I know, but a decent indicator I reckon.

Heading off now for a couple of tapa and a glass or two of a nice Ribero del Duro (€1.50 a pop) at our local bar - that'll take care of one comparison       :) 

JF






Offline kevin3

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 20:04:54 PM »



     Is a one day bus ticket called a Diego. ??

     Can you take and keep a UK car there permanently.? We were looking to buy in Estapona  12 / 15 years ago but the prices

     were sky high. We had some lovely holidays looking though. Laid back evenings at the Bars around the Marina.     8)

Offline JohnF

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 20:19:21 PM »
Dunno Kevin, don't do buses  ;)

You can keep a UK car here as long as you change the plates and light units, but the general feeling is that it's not really worth it unless it's a classic or something a bit special.

Depending on the make and engine size you'd be looking at €1,000 plus for fees, taxes and parts - that's what we would end up paying for a two litre diesel Cmax.  Add in the sheer inconvenience of driving a RHD car in a country set up for LHD and the attraction of saving a few quid becomes less.  Think car parks, tolls etc.

JF

Offline saoirse

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 08:20:50 AM »
I am in the Valencia region and as you have highlighted prices and practices can vary quite a lot region to region as Spain operates almost on a federal system with taxes etc raised regionally

As a general rule after considerable experience of Turkey and now owning in Spain I would say it's virtually impossible to compare the two places as in one being better/ worse than the other

Again very generally  speaking I would suggest overall Spain is more expensive in some aspects  but I would also suggest quality when eating out,  infrastructure etc are a higher standard

I genuinely could not put one place above the other as it's not comparing apples with apples

I adore the area we now frequent but will def keep touch with Fethiye/Uzumlu as had some great times there

Offline JohnF

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 13:43:13 PM »
You're right, it would be wrong to suggest that one is better than the other, which is why I haven't.  That said, there are advantages and disadvantages associated with living in Spain versus Turkey and it is these I have highlighted. 

JF


Offline patrice

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 14:20:03 PM »
We recently bought in Cyprus in a lovely village called Tala and we love it there.The apartment is a little smaller but we gain by having our own private garden. We miss Turkey for the beautiful views and of course the cost of living is a lot cheaper but it balances out as the flights are more ready available all year round and are much more affordable compared to Turkey.

Offline saoirse

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 14:41:58 PM »
Oh the flights compared to Turkey are amazing for us both in frequency and  price

Whilst it's got better for 2018 last year- Belfast to Turkey, 1 flight a fortnight,  May to Oct around £300

Belfast to Spain     up to 32 flights a week, flights 12 months of year, from £29 return!!! ( and obviously around 2 hrs less fly time)

Offline stoop

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2018, 10:38:04 AM »
I know that coastline JohnF as our friends have lived in the Chiclana area for the last fourteen years. Their current property has been on the market almost three years and still it won’t sell. Having looked there are so many for sale at €200k or just less. It’s a lovely 3 bed villa with pool, garage with roof top terrace and sea view and it’s in a large plot.

The area (Spanish Algarve) is lovely and I would recommend a visit to anyone. Flights are cheap too.

Buying for them was relatively straight forward but I remember their first home didn’t have full planning permission and that the had to sweat until it was five years old and they could apply retrospectively. They also said that about 25% of the purchase price was passed under the table to avoid tax. This is a common practice evidently.

I also remember they bought wine in bulk (plastic barrels) and it was dirt cheap and good quality. Local vineyard I think.

They are moving back for family reasons.

Offline saoirse

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 11:37:35 AM »
There are 4 winerys in my immediate area and as a non wine drinker I have no personal experience of it, friends who do imbibe tell me it is excellent

Whilst back in Ireland I saw the exact wine being sold in a  bar for €7 a glass. It is sold in bottles locally at €2.20,  and at the winery € 2.80 a litre

Offline JohnF

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Re: Turkey v Spain... Spain v Turkey...
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 15:28:49 PM »
I'm not sure exactly how many wineries and bodegas we have in Jerez (fortyish maybe?), suffice to say that within a few minutes walk we have five or six of the major brands (Gonzalez Byass, Fundador, Lustau etc) and numerous smaller independent firms.  They're all very visitor friendly, even the ones that don't actively advertise bodega tours - you show an interest in sherry, they in turn are happy to let you see (and taste) what they produce.  We've also got the other two towns that make up the "sherry triangle", Sanlucar de Barrameda and El Puerto de Santa Maria, close by and they have thirty odd bodegas between them. 

Prices are ridiculous compared to the U.K.  At the higher end, a bottle of Gonzalez Byass Tio Pepe will cost you a tenner in the U.K. (€11.20) but can be had here for €5.95.  Move away from "big brand" bottles and its €1.75 - €2.00 for decent quality manzanilla and fino.  Oloroso and amontillado a bit more but still a fraction of the U.K. price.  I've no idea how much it is in Turkey as the only time I've ever seen sherry anywhere in Turkey has been in major hotels in Istanbul - although I wouldn't bet against Car Cemetery having a bottle or two tucked away!

Being the epicentre of the sherry industry has advantages - every tabanco and most bars have their house sherry for €1 a glass.  Once you work out who has your favourite, happy days.

It's not all just about sherry though, there are several wineries that produce some excellent red and white wines that are rarely seen outside Spain.  Prices vary from a few euros to "bloody hell, how much!" per bottle, and having tried a good few across the range, I can honestly say I haven't found one I didn't enjoy.  For every day drinking (so to speak   :) ) we either buy a local (Tierra de Cadiz) white wine for just over €2 or a Verdejo for €2.45.  Tend to spend a bit more on reds, but only by a couple of euros.

Oh wait...  I didn't mention the local brandy, did I?  Brandy de Jerez has its own D.O. (denomination of origin) and differs from other Spanish brandies in that it is aged in old sherry casks which apparently affects the taste - I'm not a great lover of brandy so I take their word for it   :)

I sometimes think that this region should carry a government health warning regarding alcohol consumption!  But then again, I see the old guys sitting with a glass of oloroso at nine or ten in the morning and they all look fit as fiddles!

JF




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