Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Ovacik Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Scunner on July 15, 2011, 15:50:58 PM
-
A HEARTBROKEN mum who wed the man of her dreams after they enjoyed a holiday romance has told how red tape is forcing them to spend married life thousands of miles apart.
Claire Manson fell in love with Ozkan Keseli during a trip to Turkey and, a year later, she gave birth to their son, Ozzi.
However, Ozkan had to miss the birth after the UK Border Agency refused to allow him to enter the country on a visiting visa.
http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-news/2011/07/15/family-split-by-red-tape-and-3-130-miles-87085-29055349/
-
Scunner I note that you have simply presented this information. Is this a case of presenting the blue touch paper and standing back, for someone else to light blue touch paper also stand back as the whole lot goes bang?
Good tactics on your part, but I'm not going to light that blue touch paper, no matter how well presented :)
-
Is my purpose to provide a discussion forum or a forum and discussions ;)
-
Maybe, but I do hope that the duck thread doesn't get hi-jacked.
-
I must remember to start a new topic about the price of Efes
-
It is sad for them but it is difficult to get even a visitor visa,
If the border agency looked at the application they would see that she hadnt lived here, that he wasnt employed so had no work to return for etc and that they werent married at the time. Not surprised they refused it.
That being said I think that now they are married and have child that he will get one now!
-
What a heartbreaking story. I can only hope that this is an isolate case.
-
Well here goes. The Border Agency is often accussed by the press and people through out the UK of not doing its job in protecting our borders and allowing hordes of illegal immigrants to enter Britain. Then when they do their job - as in this case - they also receive bad press! Something wrong there
In this particular case I have little sympathy for these two. They knew it was not going to be easy to have a relationship seperated by distance and border control, or if they didn't they should have found out. Certainly before getting pregnant anyway. Also getting pregnant when birth control is both freely and readily available is certainly no reason why exceptions should be made in this or in any other case involving consensual sex.
Yes I have sympathy for the child, its not his or her fault that he or she has stupid parents.
-
In this case it suggests that he tried to enter the UK on a visitor/temporary visa. Under the circumstances the Border Agency are only interested in one thing - will he leave on it's expiry - and the answer you would have to come to is probably not, they would view it that he wanted to live in the UK permanently.
-
I must agree with Usedbustickets on this. Immigration is a very touchy subject and the previous government has been accused of virtually opening the doors. This guy is seasonal worker who cannot demonstrate that he is able to support himself. We have a situation where the woman has only a part time job so it is likely that the tax payer is picking up a fair share of the cost of bringing up this child. I admit to knowing very little about Paisley but I am sure there is not a great demand for holiday photographers in the area and there is also an already high unemployment rate. So if this guy is allowed he will finish up claiming benefits.
I know I may sound harsh but we have to draw a line under immigration. The UK has been voted the number 1 destination by migrants. We all know why as we are just suckers and hand benefits out left right and centre.
-
It may be harsh but its highly likely he would not have gone home.
I think that the UK border control should be severe with people or we end up with more of the same there is always going to be exceptions that will hit the headlines that some people agree with and others don't but that's life.
-
Good to see that the border control are doing the job they are paid to do, lets hope that this is a sign of future controls to come, but I won't hold my breath.
[^]
-
The answer is she stays with her man in Turkey............Simples
-
I think she has to stay in the UK as she has other kids. From reading the article they met summer 2009 and had baby June 2010, she must have gotten pregnant more or less straight away!
-
Can't the other kids move to Turkey then?
-
Not without permission of the father.
-
Or fathers ?
-
Probably best idea is not to get up the duff to someone from abroad then.
-
OK, I won't ;)
-
I dont even know the woman, nothing to do with me.....( DUFF )
-
I wonder how Aaron and Lucy feel about what has happened.They will suddenly have a man they hardly know as a stepfather.
-
Tash and Fey have the same problem, Tash has two of the children in the UK and Fey has one here and cant get into UK:(
Luckily he is on holiday here this week :)
-
quote:
Originally posted by duffyinthesun
The answer is she stays with her man in Turkey............Simples
Yep! you got my vote as Governor...lol
and a note to others "Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder!"
:D 8)
-
After reading your posts and being on the other side of things, i.e. my hubby is here with me, I had to reply! It is an absolute nightmare and really unfair. Firstly even if you are a Turk working here, with a job, and a wife and a family, he isnt entitled to ANY BENEFITS and wont be likely too until he becomes a UK Citizen which isnt going to happen! If you are genuinely in love and are apart with or without children its very very hard. In the last 6 years we have spent over 15K on various paperwork, tests, solicitors etc just for my husband to be legal here in the UK. We let every other EU country in with no or very little checks and they are allowed our benefits, housing etc and I think that you are directing you negativity to the wrong people. You cant help who you fall in love with, its fate. What I dont understand though why if they are so in love, why didnt they apply for a spouse visa? Why wouldnt he want to live with her?
-
quote:
We let every other EU country in with no or very little checks and they are allowed our benefits, housing etc
You answered your own question, Turkey is not part of the EU, and if your husband is working in the UK, then he is lucky to be able to work at a job that a British National can do, unlike Turkey, where a foreign national can not work or be employed in a occupation that a Turkish Citizen can do without jumping through dozens of obstacles or else be deported.
-
How do you know a British National can do his job?
-
Don't be stupid Tinx, you know exactly what the meaning is.
-
If a Turkish man is living in the UK with his British family and has no work his family must still be entitled to benefits even if he is not.In Turkey they would receive no help from the authorities and have to exist on the good will of family,friends and neighbours.
I must admit I know very little of how the system works but in France at Calais we saw loads of immigrants trying to cross to England.
-
Ive been reading this topic with interest,and just like to put my views. I have been living in Turkey for 5 years now after retiring, and have lost count of the number of women who come here, fall for the charms of a Turkish man, marry him, and the next thing you know, he has got a visa to live in England. These women do everything to get him a visa. Why, when they marry him, do they not insist on living in Turkey. No, because they believe its easy money in the UK. Also, when we come to live here, we have to prove we can live without working, They dont. As long as they have someone to sponsor them, they are ok. I think what the British Government should impose, is to say, if you marry a Turk, Morrocan etc, then you must live in their country for say 3 years before the husband can apply for a visa. This may help sorting the genuine, from the "Just doing it to get a visa" sort. Thats my rant, and I realise that some Turkish men are genuine, so I apologise if they feel I am just lumping them in with the bad ones. All I am saying that this issue needs to be sorted before there is no room or money left for the English.
-
I dont expect my husband to get benefits, Im just replying to the person that said that the Turkish guy would end up living in the UK on benefits. As it happens we did live in Turkey forst for nearly 2 years and this was where we both preferred to live, unfortunately our business failed and thats the reason why we came back as we had just run out of money. All Im saying is that the amount of hoops that we have had to jump through just so that we can be a family. As for my husbands job he works 6 days a week in a kitchen, at the time of applying for this job there were no other applicants, probably because the lazy English people would rather sit on their bums and watch Jezza Kyle waiting for their benefits. Why the English Authorities dont change the process that they interview the couple it would be so much easier to see if they are genuine or not!!! All im saying is that if your relationship is genuine its a very hard process. The government arent doing a very good job at getting rid of the foreign criminals/visa overstayers that are already here.
-
Janice, I understand and sympathise with you and your husband about the procedures that the British Government put in place, and you are a genuine case. However, what I cannot understand is that living in Turkey for 2 years, and prefering to live in Turkey, When your business failed, your husband did not find work here, but instead you relocated to England. Surely if you love living in Turkey, he could have found work here instead of England.
-
So when you ran out of money, why did you not stay in Turkey. Why go back to the UK, if you have no money it doesnt matter where you are.[?]
As for the lazy English sitting on their bums, im astonished, do you no every english person then, because i think your remarks are very offensive [:(!]
-
Janice, I agree that they should interview the couple.
simpsons - It is very hard to find work in Fethiye that is 12 months rather than seasonal
-
quote:
Originally posted by booo
simpsons - It is very hard to find work in Fethiye that is 12 months rather than seasonal
Then who runs all the businesses and shops, supermarkets, restaurants etc in winter? Cmon, if you are out of work in England, do you run off to another country to look for it? Theproblem is that a lot of Turks are fussy and want as much money for as little work. If I had to feed my family, I would take anything that pays. "Little money,is better than no money".
-
Once again a sweeping generalisation and stereotype card is played. I have found that "as much money for as little work", if you want to apply it to an entire nation, fits the British far better than the Turks. Have you considered that in the UK Janice could possibly easily find work, whereas in Turkey she would probably have been paid next to nothing (and have the very real prospect of not being paid at all) and also live with the prospect of deportation every day? They did what they needed to do after a bad business experience to keep the marriage and family together and fed - there is little comparison between this and the woman in the article who got carelessly pregnant to some bozo she had only recently met.
The racist opinions some people have of Turkish folk on here makes me wonder how they came to the decision to have anything to do with the country at all. I also wonder what our proud Turkish friends who are members make of it all.
-
I agree with Keith here, it is too easy to play the sweeping generalisation of a nation and it's supposed national characteristics. Or indeed how it looks like we are attacking an individual for the views they have expressed.
When I 'lit the blue touch paper' on this thread I tried, as a I always do, to be careful to stick to the specifics of this particular issue. Which is what I would hope everyone else would do in a matter that does require to be handled thoughtfully and sensitivly.
However, where I differ from Scunner is that I think some of the unhelpful comments made here are not being made by racists making racist comments, but are in fact comments being made by probably very nice people - who do love Turkey and it's people - who have given little thought about what they are really saying, and how those comments are received by others on the forum.
I am glad we heard from Janice on her views on the matter, based on her own experiences. What she said was different, not the opposite or conflictual to what some people were saying, just different. Long may she continue to do so.
-
Scunner, I dont wish to fall out with you or others on this matter, but I am entitled to my views. When I said "As much money, for as little work", please read that I did not say the entire nation (as you have stated), but said a lot, not all. This can apply to all nations not just English, but Scots, Welsh and Irish etc. What I am saying about this matter is that Janice and her husband loved living in Turkey, but when their business failed, the went to England to work. Fethiye is not a seasonal town, there is work all year round, the problem is that the ones that work in the tourist industry, suddenly at the end of season are all rushing to get the few jobs available. I believe if you are supporting a family, then you must be prepared to get full time employment and not 6 months here and there. My daughter is 27 and employed by Hillside Beach Club as a Beauty Therapist, for 6 months a year, 6 days a week, 13 hours a day. Yes, she earns good money, but she works bloody hard for it, sometimes she is in pain from doing 7 - 8 massages a day, but still she goes on, unlike the others she works with, who are always moaning they are not getting enough bonuses or money, because they are not prepared to put the work in but sit around smoking and drinking tea all day. I find that when you say British are lazy, and Turks are hard working, the you are insulting people like my daughter. As I said not all Turkish people are lazy, but dont put words in my mouth. After all (and I am not being funny) you slag of some Turkish people saying they forced you out of Turkey.
-
You are entitled to your opinion and your opinion remains in full view. That is the purpose of a discussion forum and I am not in the habit of falling out with members who have views that differ from mine. Good wholesome debate is a passion of mine and I try to generate it on the CBF. Now let me correct you on something. Nobody, Turkish, British or of any other nationality "forced me out of Turkey" and you will not find me saying that in even one of my far too many posts. We decided to go, we wanted to live in Scotland and never at any stage felt that we were being forced out in any way whatsoever. Indeed, I think we hung around too long in the end :D
And you talk about me putting words in your mouth!!!
-
I agree with Simpsons. Its not racial its fact.But its ok to label ALL English as lazy bums, and not one person apart from simpsons has backed the english. Thats sad.
-
Sorry Scunner, but in previous topics you have said you had a gun shoved in you face and your family threatened. If thats not forcing, then I dont know what is
-
We lived in Turkey for 3 years after I was threatened with a gun and threats made regarding my children. I was never forced out of anywhere and come and go in Turkey as and when I please to see mainly my Turkish friends. Do you want to continue discussing a subject you obviously know nothing about or shall we return to the topic of this thread?
-
What's the difference between a British work shy layabout and a Turkish work shy layabout?
One starves.
-
I'm still fretting about the ducks......
-
quote:
Originally posted by simpsons
quote:
Originally posted by booo
simpsons - It is very hard to find work in Fethiye that is 12 months rather than seasonal
Then who runs all the businesses and shops, supermarkets, restaurants etc in winter? Cmon, if you are out of work in England, do you run off to another country to look for it? Theproblem is that a lot of Turks are fussy and want as much money for as little work. If I had to feed my family, I would take anything that pays. "Little money,is better than no money".
The same businesses and shops that you speak of are staffed all year round, so where do all the extra jobs come from that the people who can only get jobs in the summer come from?
I dont agree that Janice has ran off to some other country, the business didnt work out so they had to look at other options and for them the UK must have presented the best option. It would be easier for her to get work in the UK, they would more than likely have family support in the UK.
You wouldnt leave England if you lost your job but in Turkey if you have no job there are no benefits, no insurance for healthcare.........nothing at all
-
UK = Benefits. Turkey = No Benefits. End of Story.
-
When our business failed, we both went cleaning villas for 3 months, my husband tried and tried to get a full time job in Turkey, unfortunately the only jobs that were available didnt cover our rent and bills, at the time our daughter was 18 months old and we were literally down to our last £50. I made the awful decision that my only option was to return to the UK, luckily I had a house to return to, my husband couldnt join me for 6 months due to the visa process taking so long. I then got a job working nights as a carer. If we hadnt had children I would probably have stuck it out and found a way around the money problems, however when you are faced with the fact that you didnt know how you were going to feed you daughter, what would you have done? I loved Turkey and I loved my life in Turkey, when we brought our cake shop the thought that it wasnt going to suceed never entered my mind. All Im saying is that there are genuine Turkish/English marriages and it is hard enough to balance money/work/family life here in the UK without being faced with £1000's for visa, solicitors etc!
-
Anyone who has the courage to start a business has to be admired. No one starts off with thoughts of failing.
It is very hard to be succesfull wherever your business is based. I think that the experience gained can be used in the future to perhaps have another try.
Good Luck :)
-
Life in Turkey is very hard. There are few jobs and unfortunately people who are prepared to let you work and then fail to pay you. In the UK if you are legally resident not just on a visitors visa you are allowed to work. As a British citizen in Turkey who is legally resident I am not allowed to work. Very few companies want to apply for a work permit for a foreigner. When you marry a Turkish person you have to wait 3 years before you can apply for citizenship. I can understand why so many genuine couples opt for trying to make a go of it in the UK. But do agree that meeting someone on holiday and getting pregnant in a matter of weeks is perhaps not the greatest idea. There are many countries that Turkish people can visit without the need for a visa perhaps the couple mentioned could consider settling somewhere that is possible for them to be together legally and without the need for a visa.
-
Janice you do not have to justify why you chose to return to your country or who you married - you lived in the uk and you lived in turkey this is both your right and your choice - you tried in business it didnot work - happens to lots of people - I too married a turkish man 5 years ago we live half the time in the uk and half the time in turkey it was difficult getting a visa at first but was fine as long as you produce the documents they require and can show you can support your spouse and family - good luck with your choice.
-
In the article she says she is flying backwards and forwards to Turkey so her husband can see his son.
The two things I would like to know are:-
If she only works part-time how can she afford the flights
and
do her 2 other children come with her or are they left in the UK