Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Uzumlu Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Eric on February 14, 2008, 11:05:05 AM
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This is my latest press release.
Uzumlu:.. Wake up call.
Foreign people who own properties need to wake up to the realities of what is happening in Uzumlu.
Not only in Uzumlu but Fethiye, Calis, Ovacik, any one within 40kms
There is a Turkish law that states that no industrial unit that emits smoke, dust etc can be built within 3 kms of olive groves and after we protested, we managed to get a second CED report done that proved without doubt that there are at least 4 olive groves within that area. This should have stopped Urantas in their tracks but today we have learned that the 2nd CED report has not gone to Ankara and the Environment Ministry in Ankara have issued permission for the factory to proceed. It clearly shows that money and contacts are still in force in the country.
Only last week the Prime Minister was quoted as saying that corruption had been eradicated in Turkey? Not so we say and this clearly shows that the statement was false.
We need all concerned residents to contact British newspapers, TV, The British Embassy in Ankara demanding that laws are followed.
You may think it will not affect you but it will. You will be seeing huge increases in dust, mercury & dioxin emissions which will affect you health as well as the investment you have in your homes in the area. Please do not leave it to others to try and fight, we need everyone fighting and showing that the foreigners who have made the Fethiye area rich have a right to protect their health and investments.
The fight is still being fought by our Turkish committee but they need us to get off our comfy chairs and start shouting louder that we will be listened to. It is still winnable so please if you know people with newspaper or TV contacts get in touch. If you are prepared to send a letter off to different organisations I will willingly write a letter you can send on.
Please stop the attitude that it will not affect you and support us in any way you can.
We also have a new letter of protest and contact list available so if you want to help contact me and I can send it over to you all.
We need as much public protest letters and publicity as possible so please help as it will affect everyone which includes Calis, Fethiye & Ovacik areas.
Thanks
Fi
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Hi Fi - happy to do what we can. Not sure if the email link is working, but pls do send us lists / letters etc and we will start shouting too.
Are their any members, contacts, friends, collegues who could take this report personally to Ankara ?(sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, not sure how the system works, but thought it may be worth a try).
Toni and Andy
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Fi please let us have the contact list etc., as we want to help as much as we can, thanks.
Sue
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Contacts list to me as well, hang on in there. We're back in April, this time on two legs!! so will help where we can
Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by pookie
Hi Fi - happy to do what we can. Not sure if the email link is working, but pls do send us lists / letters etc and we will start shouting too.
Are their any members, contacts, friends, collegues who could take this report personally to Ankara ?(sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, not sure how the system works, but thought it may be worth a try).
Toni and Andy
Hi Pookie, Starman recently mentioned having lunch with some high ranking officials, might be worth asking him, good luck all :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
This is my latest press release.
Uzumlu:.. Wake up call.
Foreign people who own properties need to wake up to the realities of what is happening in Uzumlu.
Not only in Uzumlu but Fethiye, Calis, Ovacik, any one within 40kms
There is a Turkish law that states that no industrial unit that emits smoke, dust etc can be built within 3 kms of olive groves and after we protested, we managed to get a second CED report done that proved without doubt that there are at least 4 olive groves within that area. This should have stopped Urantas in their tracks but today we have learned that the 2nd CED report has not gone to Ankara and the Environment Ministry in Ankara have issued permission for the factory to proceed. It clearly shows that money and contacts are still in force in the country.
Only last week the Prime Minister was quoted as saying that corruption had been eradicated in Turkey? Not so we say and this clearly shows that the statement was false.
We need all concerned residents to contact British newspapers, TV, The British Embassy in Ankara demanding that laws are followed.
You may think it will not affect you but it will. You will be seeing huge increases in dust, mercury & dioxin emissions which will affect you health as well as the investment you have in your homes in the area. Please do not leave it to others to try and fight, we need everyone fighting and showing that the foreigners who have made the Fethiye area rich have a right to protect their health and investments.
The fight is still being fought by our Turkish committee but they need us to get off our comfy chairs and start shouting louder that we will be listened to. It is still winnable so please if you know people with newspaper or TV contacts get in touch. If you are prepared to send a letter off to different organisations I will willingly write a letter you can send on.
Please stop the attitude that it will not affect you and support us in any way you can.
We also have a new letter of protest and contact list available so if you want to help contact me and I can send it over to you all.
We need as much public protest letters and publicity as possible so please help as it will affect everyone which includes Calis, Fethiye & Ovacik areas.
Thanks
Fi
I am willing to help in any way I can - I think we need to publicise what is happening here as much as possible - Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, etc. There is certainly some underhanded business going on here.
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Thanks guys & gals but you need to contact me through CBF so I can send the letter to you.
Just click on my user name and from there you can email me and I can then forward the letter etc.
Cheers
Fi
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Thanks guys & gals but you need to contact me through CBF so I can send the letter to you.
Just click on my user name and from there you can email me and I can then forward the letter etc.
Cheers
Fi
Have emailed you for info, only too happy to help where we can!
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Bugger, and there was I just cancelled the 'Factory View' house sign!!!!!!!
Turkey, corruption - whatever next?
Before I jump out of my comfy chair I would like to know what the mayors and ruling bodies of Fethiye, Calis, Ovacik and of course here in Uzumlu have done and are doing to combat this evil? Not too much by the sound of things. After all this is their country. We're just foreigners.
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Correct
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Bit late as I had lunch with the British ambassador last monday but still have some very high up contacts in the British consulate here.
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We have been busy sending out letters and emails, we also sent a copy by email to GMTV, but again unless a they receive a lot of the same emails nothing will probably be done. Use this link it takes you straight to the page for contacting them (hopefully) http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=678
:)
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Fi's protest letter is also on the Fethiye times website, www.fethiyetimes.com with addresses to send it to all it needs is a bit of cut and paste. Fi has done all the hard work all it takes is a couple of clicks and its done!!
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Originally posted by Eric
This is my latest press release.
Uzumlu:.. Wake up call.
Foreign people who own properties need to wake up to the realities of what is happening in Uzumlu.
Not only in Uzumlu but Fethiye, Calis, Ovacik, any one within 40kms
There is a Turkish law that states that no industrial unit that emits smoke, dust etc can be built within 3 kms of olive groves
Can someone please explain the reasons why anyone who owns property within 40kms "need to wake up"?
Pete
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:o I may be hazarding a guess, but I think it may be something to do with the pollution, noise, violation, contamination and the sheer and utter demolition of a peaceful and natural way of life......
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I think you might find that the 40kms is the approx. 'fallout' zone covered by the emissions from such an establishment as a cement factory!
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We are about to send our cement factory letter on to all the addresses that Fiona & Eric has kindly supplied. We would like to add that in addition to sending letters to them and GMTV we send a letter to Thompson & Thomas Cook holiday companies with a copy to the Ministry for Tourism here in Turkey. We have heard that both Thompson & Thomas Cook have been following the cement factory progress are already aware of it's clearance for building. These tour companies are now seriously considering 'pulling out' of this area in Turkey. If this is the case then other tour companies would follow suit. If more of us write letters to the tour companies & Ministry of Tourism we would then be putting even more pressure on the government to stop the cement factory. Surely the loss of revenue from tourism and property sales in this area will far outstrip any monies earnt by government from the cement factory.
It may even be worth while if as many people as possible send letters to the English newspapers in the hope that one or other of them will run a story. Surely the government here, local and national, would not wish for such bad publicity with the possible 'fall out' (excuse the pun) that could cause. We are already drafting our letter to the Sun & Daily Mirror!
Paul & Helen
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quote:
Originally posted by lynx
We are already drafting our letter to the Sun & Daily Mirror!
Paul & Helen
Don't use any big words then ! The Oxford Children's Pictorial Dictionary Online might be useful.
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Good idea with the travel companies, will send copies out to them today too. Like you say the more people that send out letters the better chance of someone picking up on it. :)
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Maybe this is worth a try - Five news are doing "your news" this is what they say on their website - Your News is the part of the programme we hand over to you, our viewers. If you have a Your News idea or a story get in touch.
We are going to email the letter regarding the cement factory, also looks like on their website you can send a vidoe message if anyone has the know how!!! :)
They can be emailed at <news@five.tv>
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Now that it looks like the cement factory is going to go ahead are the estate agents selling property in the area being honest and advising prospective puchasers of properties of the plans, or are they still trying to sell the properties hoping that people will not find out? I have looked at a number of the websites and can find no evidence that people are being made aware, I suppose that is because if they know they will understandably not want to buy so what will happen to all the empty buildings still for sale there. There is a property exhibition in Manchester this weekend run by "A Place in the Sun" and how many Turkish Estate Agents there will still be pushing to sell property in Uzumlu hoping that the plans are not common knowledge - it may be worth sending a quick e-mail to the exhibition organisers to highlight what is going to happen, because if I was a prospective puchaser I would certainly want to know. I think publicity is the only way forward now.
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Elaina
I'm pretty sure many of the agents/builders will continue to sell houses in Uzumlu without mentioning the cement factory. Let's be honest here - if you owned a house/houses there and was trying to sell it/them would you make a big fuss over the cement factory?
It's really up to the prospective purchaser to find out what's being planned in a certain area. To be honest - if a cement factory was being built 5 miles from my house I don't think I would mention it if I was selling. Would you?
As for the estate agents - it's really up to them. If they have houses on their books in Uzumlu then they would be daft to mention it. However they could refuse to sell any houses in that area and that would stop them having to wrestle with their conscience.
That's why this type of forum is so valuable. Unfortunately not everyone finds us before they take the plunge.
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quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Elaina
I'm pretty sure many of the agents/builders will continue to sell houses in Uzumlu without mentioning the cement factory. Let's be honest here - if you owned a house/houses there and was trying to sell it/them would you make a big fuss over the cement factory?
It's really up to the prospective purchaser to find out what's being planned in a certain area. To be honest - if a cement factory was being built 5 miles from my house I don't think I would mention it if I was selling. Would you?
As for the estate agents - it's really up to them. If they have houses on their books in Uzumlu then they would be daft to mention it. However they could refuse to sell any houses in that area and that would stop them having to wrestle with their conscience.
That's why this type of forum is so valuable. Unfortunately not everyone finds us before they take the plunge.
That's why we need to publicise this to potential purchasers - if the estate agents won't do it then we must after all how would you feel if you had signed up to puchase in Uzumlu and did not know. Perhaps if they sell nothing they will realise they are "killing the goose that laid the golden egg" so to speak then they would think twice and realise they have more to lose than they will gain.
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and the people who are in Uzumlu and have their house up for sale, how will your publicity favour them?
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Elaina,
We have had lots and lots of posts on this topic and it has had very good publicity on the forum. I'm not saying you should not publicise it wherever you can but you cannot really expect Estate agents and sellers to warn people off the area.
As I said - there might be agents out there that would not carry Uzumlu properties on their books but those who have will continue to try and sell them. If they warn all their potental buyers against the area then they might as well remove them from their book. If that happens then nothing would sell at all up there and the place would die.
What needs to happen is the cancellation of the proposed factory and hopefully the publicity that apperas to be lined up might just have an effect.
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I think if the factory goes ahead the place will die anyway - I have a property there so I will be affected but if I was buying now I would want to know wouldn't you?
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Elaina - yes I would. On the contrary If I was selling I would not want it common knowlege. Would you?
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If I was selling my property then I would have to be honest with the person I was selling to - I am too honest maybe that's my problem but I have a conscience.
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Elaina,
I have had quite a few refferals back to me from people who are looking to buy here in Uzumlu.
They have asked their builders about the cement factory and some, if not all builders, are not giving them the truth. Some have been told within the last 2 weeks that it is not going ahead, others have been told it will enhance their properties value and others say it will not affect the area. Most of these builders use Urantas cement and seem fearful of upsetting the man.
I can understand your feelings and Stoops as its a no win situation for sellers and buyers.
The frustrating thing is that all Emlaks and builders have been asked to help stop this factory but only 2 Emlaks have done anything by way of contacting the working group and attending meetings. Not one builder has attended any meetings to offer help.
It will kill their businesses as no buyers will equal no sales but they seem unable or unwilling to see this. Short term gain!
If I am asked I will truthfully tell people the current situation and the proposed future activities planned but unfortunately the builders attitude is " If the buyer doesn't ask then we don't mention it".
As someone who has run my own business, in the past, I can partly understand this attitude but I cannot accept that they are unwilling to work with us to stop it.
Real shame, but the fight is now in the hands of the lawyers and we will not give up!
Thanks for everyones continuing support and keep sending out the letters.
Thanks
Fi
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Fi,
Don't give up! It's a pity the builders and estate agents will not join your fight to have this stopped but I guess that's business - short sighted maybe but I guess they all have wives and kids to feed today as well as tomorrow.
I'm not picking the bones here but you did say 'If I am asked I will truthfully tell people the current situation'. So I take it if you were not asked you would not mention it . Don't get me wrong - I would do exactly the same - and I am not getting at you.
Good luck with the fight. I have emailed GMTV for you and I hope you get the publicity you need and want.
Stoop
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Reading this thread is pretty depressing stuff. I hate to say "I told you so" but I have been vilified by the majority on here over the past year for speaking, what I believe to be the truth. I reiterate - this matter will be decided by the Turks for good or bad in some smoke-filled room in Ankara or Mugla. Our influence, regretably, will be minimal. Anyone who has lived here for some time can see how the Turks think and behave. They have little or no regard for us 'foreigners' and see us as a 'meal ticket'. This is all so very predictable.
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Whether I agree with your comments or not Chris is irrelivant, This is a highly emotive subject for a lot of people and they are trying to do something about it, they may succeed they may not, but they are trying.
I really do not see the need for you to continually posting your thoughts, we know where you stand you have made that perfectly clear in the past, so why not leave them to it?
Tinx
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If people stop buying or showing any interest in Uzumlu then the estate agents and builders will lose money and that is the only way to get them to see sense - the Turks are money driven and would do anything for a fast buck - hit them where it hurts - in their pocket! Estate agents in the area have made a lot of money in a short space of time - I don't have a problem with that if they are honest and fair and now I think is the time for them to support us - the people who have invested money and helped them. Turkey is a big country, far bigger than England - there is no need for them to construct a cement factory so close to a tourist area. They cannot have their cake and eat it - they either want tourists and an ex-pat community or an industrial wasteland - the two do not go together. I can remember going through an area in Spain many years ago that was devastated by cement production. I still think publicity will help and the internet sure makes the world a very small place.
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quote:
Originally posted by elaina
the Turks are money driven and would do anything for a fast buck - hit them where it hurts - in their pocket!
Does that sweeping stereotypical racist remark include the local Turkish people who are also fighting the plan?
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Tinkerman, this thread was started on 14 Feb and before today I had contributed just once - on 17 Feb. I hardly feel the evidence supports your remark that 'I do not see the need for you continually posting your thoughts'. Thank God for small mercies, at least you did not call me a git and tell me to 'bugger off'!
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Scunner, please can you inform us exactly who are' the local Turkish people fighting the plan'?
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Yes I too would like to know who is fighting the plan - it all seems to be shrouded in secrecy so there must be a cover up somewhere down the line. Openess and fairness - it's not much to ask is it.
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Well if it's a list of names you are looking for I am sorry to be so vague.
I guess I mean the Turkish people Fi refers to in her posts on the subject, who are against the project alongside the foreign ex-pats. I may have it wrong, perhaps there are no Turkish people in protest photographs in the local press holding placards, maybe I imagined it all.
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Are there any Government officals who are supporting the cause or anyone else with some clout in the council. I have scoured the internet about this cement factory and there does not appear to be very much on there as yet apart from what has been mentioned in the forum and in the local English papers in Fethiye. It seems to be very muted and it seems wrong that people are still trying to flog property in an area where there is set to be destruction and devastation. There should be some kind of mechanism to alert people to what is going to happen if the plans have now been approved - as there would be here in the UK with land registry searches that would highlight this kind of thing. I for one would not be very happy if I went along to a property exhibition to end up signing up for a property and then find out about the cement factory - of couse the agents and builders would be laughing all the way to the bank at my expense. Honest and fair practice is not much to ask.
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Elaina, let me put you in the picture before you embarass yourself further, Scunner is one of the Estate Agents you refer to he has his business in Calis, he is also attending the property exhibition in Manchester with his business.
Scunner also owns this website which is allowing this Thread on the cement factory to be debated and for you to make your comments for the world to see.
Tinx
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perhaps critics should attend meetings ,the last meeting i was fortunate to attend the expats were out numbered by our Turkish brothers and sisters ,they have as much if not more to loose than ourselves,Calvin
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So basically what you are saying is I can be accused of being a racist on line but where freedom of speech is concerned I must keep my mouth shut. OK fine - is that fair!!! I work in HR for the Government with people of all nationalities and I am certainly not racist - believe me. I have sunk a lot of money into Turkey and I think most of the Turkish people are charming but the minority spoil it for the majority as is usual. I have lost a lot and perhaps if you knew my full story you would understand but I will not go public in this forum.
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Nobody is telling you to keep your mouth shut.
The estate agents you are slating are the very people allowing you to voice your comments to the world and allowing this debate to continue.
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If you read back I have not mentioned any particular estate agent by name - and I am sure that Scunner will be honest about the cement factory if he gets anyone that is interested in purchasing in Uzumlu. There is more than one estate agent exhibiting Turkish property at the exhibition or if there isn't he will be particularly busy.
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suggest you stand back and read your comments,and you then must admit that some of your comments sound out of order ,we all have invested a lot in Uzumlu and Turkey ,i for one am thankful of the fight that is taking part against the Cement Factory ,and hope in the future to be of some help in the defeat of its plans, hope that more of the same comes from all quarters
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This thread is an important one for the Fethiye region - let's not have this one locked, we have all sunk plenty money into our properties and I for one regardless of what the outcome will do my bit to try and make sure that this cement factory does not go ahead.
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quote:
Originally posted by calvin 1949
suggest you stand back and read your comments,and you then must admit that some of your comments sound out of order ,we all have invested a lot in Uzumlu and Turkey ,i for one am thankful of the fight that is taking part against the Cement Factory ,and hope in the future to be of some help in the defeat of its plans, hope that more of the same comes from all quarters
I don't think my comments are out of order and I am just being honest and open. I have offered help and am due to attend a conference in March with some members of the British media and believe me I will do all i can and I certainly will be e-mailing any website in the UK that I see selling property in Uzumlu. I love Uzumlu and when I first purchased in Uzumlu in 2003 it was very different - all the villas and apartments have sprung up since then and I for one do not want to see it spoilt. I did attend a protest meeting back in September when I was last there to add my support but unfortunately I still have to work in the UK, so I cannot be there as often as I would like and I am sorry about that but that is life. I have to repay the money that I lost when I was ripped off, unfortunately.
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Tinkerman, so Scunner is an Estate Agent and 'owns' this site - your point is?
Calvin, it's easy to attend a meeting, taking action is a different matter. I would hope and expect that in their own country the Turks would outnumber the Brits at meetings; my question is who are they and who do they represent and what actions, if any, are they taking?
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I have read back through this subject and cannot find the exact positioning of this proposed cement factory.Is it to be sited next to(within say 500 yds)of peoples villas/homes?(Sorry if I am going over old ground but this is an interesting thread)I do not want to upset anyone but if the area is to be developed further,to the benefit of all the locals,surely for economic reasons it is necessary for the cement factory to be within the area?Once again,I do not want to "t" anyone off,but is this not a valid point?
Glenn :)
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quote:
Originally posted by elaina
the estate agents and builders will lose money and that is the only way to get them to see sense - Estate agents in the area have made a lot of money in a short space of time - I don't have a problem with that if they are honest and fair and now I think is the time for them to support us
If they were going to build a cement factory near where you live in England, would the estate agent who you used to purchase your house support you if you asked them to.
Methinks not.
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Let's keep his civil guys and gals.
My thoughts are that if you really expect estate agents and builders to fight the cause then you are going to be disappointed. Sorry but that's life I'm afraid.
I would just get on with getting as much publicity as possible and hope that the Turkish authorities can be made to see sense.
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quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Let's keep his civil guys and gals.
My thoughts are that if you really expect estate agents and builders to fight the cause then you are going to be disappointed. Sorry but that's life I'm afraid.
I would just get on with getting as much publicity as possible and hope that the Turkish authorities can be made to see sense.
How can they expect to sell property in an area that is facing an environmental disaster - that is what I want to know. The area is beautiful but it won't be for much longer and although the factory may be small to begin with as is usual with most industrial complexes - they expand. Publicity is what is needed but it will spell the end for property sales in the area until the matter is resolved. You cannot expect people to purchase property knowing that there is going to be a cement factory nearby and not to tell them is what I would call malpractice and underhandiness and I for one would not like it done to me.
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It is certainly a question of ethics but surely as in the UK the onus is on the buyer to research the are you are buying in. Estate Agents never tell you that the house next door is used as a ecstacy factory or that prostitutes hang out on the street corner, they probably know but they won't tell you, you are investing the money you need to research research research.
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Who are the Turkish locals fighting this plan?
Firstly might I say it was Turkish people knocking doors back in June 07 that alerted everyone to this problem. Since then there is a hard core of Turkish locals who have attended every meeting and protest that has been called. It is still the Turkish locals who are giving instruction to lawyers etc etc.. If you want to know who they are I suggest you attend one of their meetings!
The Yesil Uzumlu party are now the banner we work under, continuing our efforts, as the Turkish working party has many members of our fight now included on the Yesil Uzumlu committee. It gives us a banner to work under which makes the fight easier from a Turkish beaurocratic point of view.
If you want to help go along to the library in Uzumlu and join! It has been set up to protect this wonderful area and its people.
The Turkish people fighting this factory far out number the Ex-pats that are trying to do their bit!.
As I have said previously we ALL need to be united to continue the fight.
Thanks
Fi
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgeous_bird
It is certainly a question of ethics but surely as in the UK the onus is on the buyer to research the are you are buying in. Estate Agents never tell you that the house next door is used as a ecstacy factory or that prostitutes hang out on the street corner, they probably know but they won't tell you, you are investing the money you need to research research research.
In England when you purchase a property a search is done with the local council and land registry and it would highlight any developments such as this prior to exchange of contracts but in Turkey there is no such mechanism unfortunately.
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ELaina,
Loads of the UK media have been sent this story but no one has taken it further. If you want to and can do something, ref your conference, then it's over to you!
We need all the help we can get.
Cheers
Fi
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Correct but then we are talking about Turkey, one cannot/shouldn't expect the same systems to be in place and that takes me back to research research research. Do not expect an estate agent to say they have properties for sale in uzumlu but hey I tell you what they are building a dirty big cement factory at the end of the road so i won't show you it. It doesn't work that way. Those who do not want to deceive punters won't take Uzumlu properties on to the books but at the end of the day it is down to those who are purchasing to check out the facts.
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Gorgeous Bird,
You are totally correct
"Buyer beware" I think is the saying, so buyers do your research every time.
Stoop....To clarify my comment earlier "If i am asked"....I do not and cannot tell everyone looking to buy here what is happening as I do not know them , but if they are put in touch with me I will give tell them the current truthful position.
Can I be fairer than that?
Thanks
Fi
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Elaina's view is that all developers and agents keep the possibility of the cement factory a secret is based on what? A survey she did of estate agents and developers in some undercover mystery customer research perhaps? Of course not - it's based on nothing but hot air.
Would I tell a client about it if they asked? Yes I would. Would I tell them about it if they didn't? If they were interested in Uzumlu, yes I would. Is it important for me to keep this information quiet? Important enough to put this website on our estate agency business cards. Maybe Elaina thinks differently, but she is wrong. How can we sell a property without mention of the proposals when it is debated so often and so deeply on MY OWN discussion forum? Act surprised when the customer finds CBF? Or maybe assure them that I don't read it.
I can't imagine that other reputable agents would do any differently either - some would perhaps but not the ones I find recommended on a regular basis.
As for contacting the organisers of A Place In The Sun exhibition, try and get real, they couldn't care less. They make their money by selling exhibition space to whoever wants to buy it. Do you honestly think they would come to the stands of all exhibitors with Uzumlu properties on show? If they did, what do you expect them to say or do?
It is easy to tar everyone with the same brush, you proved that today.
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This thread is asking for 'Urgent Help', all this internal bickering is helping no one. If estate agents would be honest about the cement factory isn't really the issue here, the main concern, I would have thought, is the fight to get the construction stopped. Perhaps if all the energy being wasted on all these 'would or would nots' was directed into the 'war effort' to save the area there would be more chance of a successful outcome and then hopefully no need to question anyones honesty.
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I totally agree that this bickering isn't helpful, but to support Scunner too, the Agent that we bought our property through (over two years ago), did not at that time know about the plans. He has become a firm friend, and when we told him of the situation - having read Fi's threads last year - he was as shocked as the rest of us. He attends the meetings, keeps me updated from the Turkish view point, and is an ethical business man, proud of Turkey and sees it as in everyones best interest to do what he can to advertise and support. He does not use Urantas cement and he DOES advise possible buyers of the situation. It deeply hurts me, that due to his lack of English, he would not be able to respond to this thread and defend himself against these generalist accusations. Therefore I have done it for him. Not all turks are money grabbing as has been suggested and I am offended that people can suggest so. Take your time, see what is happening and get to know the Turkish people a little better....
But now back on thread......Fi, all the letters gone off, we (sadly !), don't know many influential people or move in circles that may be particularly helpful, but will do all we can ....Its not over until the fat lady sings......![:(!]
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Are Chris Tippett and Elaina married to each other? If not it was a great opportunity missed for both of them. Two bigoted racists from the same part of the world who both moved to the same area abroad to roundly insult their new hosts from within their own country.
Ah well, as you say - this bickering doesn't help :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Are Chris Tippett and Elaina married to each other? If not it was a great opportunity missed for both of them. Two bigoted racists from the same part of the world who both moved to the same area abroad to roundly insult their new hosts from within their own country.
Ah well, as you say - this bickering doesn't help :)
I thought this forum was for free speech and did not expect to be insulted every time I post a comment. I have twice now been called a racist and people who know me personally know different. I have posted my comments based on my own experiences of purchasing a property in Turkey and I have never even mentioned the name of any estate agents there and I have not insulted you. I know you are the owner of this forum but it does not give you the right to make personal insults - I don't suppose you are perfect none of us are but you seem to think you are.
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Just to remind all this is what the fight is about not estate agents. This thread has stuck with me ever since I saw the picture (particularly the last one) {A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}16371
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I have been reading this post with some interest as Uzumlu is one of the places I used to visit regularly to escape the heat and dust of Fetiye. To visit the old lady with the lace shop and have the children spoilt rotten by her, to visit the mosque then pop down to the market square to buy my annual bottle of pomegranate sauce, and to sit in the square, surrounded only by Turks was always a joy, the most important thing for me was the peace and beauty of the place and the fact that there were no tourists, Uzumlu as it is now is not the Uzumlu of my past, its peace and beauty has now been compromised by all the new housing, has it occurred to anyone that a lot of Turks might welcome the cement factory as a way of providing jobs for Turks who do not want to be forced into the service industries catering for the part time Brits with second homes, Elains distain of the locals is disturbing and should realize that the needs of the Turks come before hers, as for losing money on her property, as with all investments, they can go down as well as up.
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Over several threads I've noticed that a lot of the CBF wit and laughter has been replaced by a lot of bickering and backbiting, this is such a shame, is it PST? (pre season tension) or maybe something in the water! Whatever the reason, it has brought a new face to the forum[:(!] that doesn't fit in!!
(JMO)
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
I have been reading this post with some interest as Uzumlu is one of the places I used to visit regularly to escape the heat and dust of Fetiye. To visit the old lady with the lace shop and have the children spoilt rotten by her, to visit the mosque then pop down to the market square to buy my annual bottle of pomegranate sauce, and to sit in the square, surrounded only by Turks was always a joy, the most important thing for me was the peace and beauty of the place and the fact that there were no tourists, Uzumlu as it is now is not the Uzumlu of my past, its peace and beauty has now been compromised by all the new housing, has it occurred to anyone that a lot of Turks might welcome the cement factory as a way of providing jobs for Turks who do not want to be forced into the service industries catering for the part time Brits with second homes, Elains distain of the locals is disturbing and should realize that the needs of the Turks come before hers, as for losing money on her property, as with all investments, they can go down as well as up.
I have no distain with the locals and have many friends in Uzumlu but I want to know how I am racist when I had a Turkish boyfriend for over 5 years who I loved and trusted but who ripped me off for £100K to start up a business - stupid - yes - racist no. I even lost my job for god's sake. How would you lot feel! Happy -no - I don't think so. But to my credit I have tried to pick up the pieces and I still love Turkey and the majority of its people but the few spoil it for the majority.
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the Turks are money driven and would do anything for a fast buck - hit them where it hurts - in their pocket!
Elaina, I do not believe you to be a racist as you would probably not be in Turkey if you was, but you must see that the above statement might lead people to think that,
especially any Turkish members of this site. You have been judged by your choice of words and thats no ones fault but yours.
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
the Turks are money driven and would do anything for a fast buck - hit them where it hurts - in their pocket!
Elaina, I do not believe you to be a racist as you would probably not be in Turkey if you was, but you must see that the above statement might lead people to think that,
especially any Turkish members of this site. You have been judged by your choice of words and thats no ones fault but yours.
I was lied to and deceived for over 5 years and yes, Tinkerman I kept my mouth shut I had to and if it were not for my friends and family I would have lost everything all for the love of a country and its people - racist - I do not think so. I too remember the old Uzumlu and how very different it was - please do not try to teach me to suck eggs.
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Please lets keep the fighting to the purpose for which this thread was intended, the fight against the Cement Factory!!
Sue
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Please folks lets concentrate on the main reason for this thread TO HELP STOP THIS CEMENT FACTORY!
If only I had the strength of support(not all Ex-pats give a dam!) here in Uzumlu that this forum has shown.
It is a passionate subject and anyone who wants to stop it, work with us and not create divisions with bickering.
Please all stop having a go, Elaina is obviously feeling very roused about the subject (I wish more were) and if that makes her try to use contacts in the UK then lets support her and stop the name calling.
Elaina please take this oppoutunity to stop and think about what you can do in the UK to raise the profile of this cause and rise above the bickering that has come from some members.
Please folks if you want to scream & shout then scream & shout at people who can make a difference.
Cheers
Fi
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Any further posts, not in line with the campaign will be deleted
Tinx
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Thanks Tinx.
Fi
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Eric.
may I ask why anyone in Britain would be interested or concerned about a cement factory being built in an obscure village in south west Turkey, don,t you think we have enough troubles of our own.
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This may seem a daft question but has anyone thought of writing to the Prime Minister and Minister of Tourism regarding this problem? (perhaps CC all the known tourist operators for the region.) Perhaps they could be invited down to 'see' the problem for themselves? Someone once said to me 'talk to the dog not the tail' and that seems appropriate in this case. If my Turkish was any good I'd do it myself. Surely this is a political prblem not a legal one?
Also, having read the discussion threads for some time now it seems to me that they get very personal and, occasionally, quite vitriolic? Mr Tippett (?) is right, some people do get ripped off, why is it that I was quoted a price of 3 lira for some hair slides in the market, the Turkish lady next to me was given a price of 2? But it's up to us 'foreigners' to overcome the problem, perhaps by learning the culture and language. After all, it's very easy to be ripped off in the UK, and for that matter, anywhere in the world.
One last thing, I couldn't understand why the moderator, apologies but can't remember name, stepped in with his comments to 'Elaina' about being careful what she said about Estate Agents. There ARE unscruplous Estate Agents out there, again worldwide and not regulated, she didn't know Scunner was an Agent so why bring the subject up? Surely Mr Scunner would acknowledge that not all are as honest as himself?
Elaina suggestion about 'making a fuss' at the exhibition is not a bad one but I wouldn't go to the organisers of the event but to the media who would be covering. SO, just about to send an email to the Manchester Evenings news! Anybody joining me??
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May I point out that getting ripped of for one lira in a Turkish market, or the rights and wrongs of local estate agents have nothing to do with the building of a cement factory. may be you can tell me why you think anyone in Britain should or will care.
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Mike A,
The reason for trying to get publicity in the UK is
1. To make people aware of the problems of buying a property in a country which cannot abide by it's own laws
2. Many people in the UK are looking for property in Turkey and again they should have the right to know about something that will blight an area and everyones health who lives there.
3. Turkey is trying to gain accession to Europe and has been given guidelines to abide by in cases such as this and they are not following those guidelines. The Foreign Office in Ankara is monitoring this case closely, with reference to those guidlines.
4. The area affected attracts thousands of British tourists.
5. The Turkish Prime Mister only 2 weeks ago stated that Corruption was no longer in existance here, this case highlights its very much still who you know that can get deals done.
6. Over 350 UK citizens have land or properties in the immeadiate area.
7. Bad press always catches the attention of those who make the decisions and hopefully pressurises them to think again when it may affect their Tourism revenue etc etc
These are just a few reasons why we are trying to reach the British Press.
The UK papers are not just soley about UK news, so forgive me if you do not agree, but I and my other friends and supporters will do any thing we can to get this stopped.
Fi
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quote:
Originally posted by elaina
I thought this forum was for free speech and did not expect to be insulted every time I post a comment.
I'm really too busy to insult you every time you post - can we agree on something else, maybe once every 5 posts?
Scunner
Mr. Perfect
Ok Tinx you delete it ;)
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Thanks for that Eric.
I cant help thinking that it will be a wasted effort, The Spanish land grab personally affecting thousands of Brits had the media jumping up and down for a week or two
but nothing changed and you hear nothing about it now, and that is happening in an existing common market country.
What leads you to believe the majority of Turks are against this, from what I understand the protests have not been that well attended, maybe not as many people are against as you think.
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I agree with Mike A's comment about the Cement Factory creating alternative jobs for Turkish residents. I made this point several months ago. "Cement factory is OK in somebody else's back yard".
Can anyone explain how they know what the impact of the Cement Works will be on Uzumlu and the surrounding area [?] I was talking to a couple of Uzumluites today, at G Mex, who don't give a monkey's about it.
Ken 8)
Gonna have red wine now Keith :D
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Having lived within five miles of and working in the Blue Circle Cement factory in Northfleet (South East England) there seemed to be precious little impact on the environment, the main disruption being the trucks plying back and forth. Lime stone, a few additives, fed into a large kiln where it is crushed into powder then heated to a high temperature, poured into a large hopper, bagged automatically, put on trucks and gone.
(You will be seeing huge increases in dust, mercury & dioxin emissions). thats not been my experience, it sounds like rhetoric to me.
Might I suggest that the "350 Brits with property or land in the area" has had more of an impact on Uzumlu than the Cement Factory will ever have, after all the cement is needed to build your houses, airports, tunnels and improve the infrastructure that lessons the strain on the environment created by the house buying Brits and tourists. The words cake and eat it spring to mind.
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I think it is very unlikely that the same rules and regulations for the production of cement that apply to the UK will apply here.
If you do a bit of internet research regarding the toxic pollution created by cement production I think you'll find you're mistaken. It may be produced in a kiln (under high heat) by the smoke etc. from the kiln has to go somewhere!:-\
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Got to say that I agree with Mike A. I lived for years in the lovely town of Clitheroe in Lancashire. This is the home of Castle Cement and even though the factory was close to the centre (far closer than the cement factory in Uzumlu) the impact on landscape and environment appeared to be negligible.
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Fi,
Did you get my email about the response we recieved from the european enviroment commission?
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Taken from Friends of the earth Web Site about UK cement factories
Health effects
The health effects of particulates, heavy metals and dioxins are well known. Recent evidence suggests that around 10,000 people in England and Wales die prematurely each year from respiratory and heart conditions because of the effect of fine particulates. Metals and dioxins are bioaccumulative and their ill effects can take a long time to become apparent as they build up in the body . These toxins are often carried on the particulates. Cadmium may cause lung and kidney disease, and mercury, which is volatile so escapes in the flue gas, can affect the nervous system. Chromium and nickel are carcinogenic; no safe ambient level in air has been recommended by the World Health Organisation.20
Dioxins are extremely toxic and the World Health Organisation has recently classed the most toxic one as a known human carcinogen.21 Findings by the US Environment Protection Agency (EPA ) indicate that at much lower levels they may have effects on the immune system, on reproductive processes and on foetal development.22 The tolerable daily intake (TDI) for dioxins in the USA has now been set 100 times lower than the official UK level.23
Neither emissions from cement kilns nor their potential local environmental and health effects have been adequately investigated in the UK. This is of particular concern in view not only of the concentration of long lived pollutants emitted but also of their far greater mass compared to plants such as incinerators. The Environment Select Committee in 1997 repeated their 1995 recommendation that a long term human health study should be carried out into the health effects of cement kiln emissions. The Department of the Environment replied to the Committee's original recommendation in only four lines, saying merely that a MAFF study had found no additional health effects from burning SLF compared to burning coal.24
A pilot respiratory study in Ribblesdale found significant increases in ill-health among children in schools near the kiln compared to those out of the area.25 The Acer report, considering the overall
emissions from Ribblesdale, states that "it is unreasonable to conclude that there is no significant risk or problem for local residents."
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Kenkay,
quote
(Can anyone explain how they know what the impact of the Cement Works will be on Uzumlu and the surrounding area?)
We know beacuse we have done the research! Just try looking on the net and you will find all the information you need to know.
If we need a Cement works in the area then build it in an industrail area away from peoples homes.
Markaren,
Got you email thanks and have emailed them too.
As you can see the UK have not got it right so do you really think that here in Turkey they are going to carry out all the air tests and maintainence required?
Fi
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The figures produced are all well and good but without the figures from the other side of the argument they are meaningless, I would no more take friends of the earths figures as gospel than I would the governments of this world.
I know from working with cement kilns that any pollutants are caused by the heating fuel used to fire the furnaces, not the cement itself, the kilns are self contained, once heated they are only closed down for routine maintenance, i.e relining with fire bricks every six weeks or so, no heat or dust escapes from them, they are not vented in any way.
As long as we create the demand for cement production we must live with the consequences of it, that also applies to every other manufacturing process you care to name. This anti cement factory campaign seems more about self interest than it does about genuine health issues and as such I would much prefer to put it on your door step,rather than have you put it on mine.
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
The figures produced are all well and good but without the figures from the other side of the argument they are meaningless, I would no more take friends of the earths figures as gospel than I would the governments of this world.
I know from working with cement kilns that any pollutants are caused by the heating fuel used to fire the furnaces, not the cement itself, the kilns are self contained, once heated they are only closed down for routine maintenance, i.e relining with fire bricks every six weeks or so, no heat or dust escapes from them, they are not vented in any way.
As long as we create the demand for cement production we must live with the consequences of it, that also applies to every other manufacturing process you care to name. This anti cement factory campaign seems more about self interest than it does about genuine health issues and as such I would much prefer to put it on your door step,rather than have you put it on mine.
Well thats us told!
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Mike A,
Your views are are your right. Mine are factual from extensive research over a long period from hunderds of sources and the only one I can find that agrees with your view is from the company wanting to build this factory(co-incidental I'm sure).
My interest is the safety of the area and the livlihoods and well being of everyone living here, Turks & Ex-pats. Yes I live here so it includes my health as well.
If I was a lone voice, you can call it self interest, but with the numbers of others involved in this fight how can it be.
As previously stated, if we need a cement factory, build it where it can harm no-one, there is plenty of space in the area that is not residential.
This issue is on my doorstep and if you do not agree with what we are trying to do then you have the option to turn off this thread.
This is a genuine thread asking for help from those that are interested and to that end I thank you for your thoughts but will agree to disagree.
Fi
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The Turkish Daily News had a write up on the factory in Uzumlu yesterday, I was not aware that the building infrastructure was already started.
The write up also details the polution the factory will cause to FETHIYE and and SEA, BAY AREAS including CALIS, and other areas along the coast, now looking at a knock on affect?
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=97733
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Whether it will do harm or whether it won't, if it's on one's doorstep or anothers, there will be emissions, so for the cement factory to be in this location would be illegal according to the Turks own Law "Article 20 of Law No.3573 on improved olive growing stipulates that in olive groves and in areas at the minimal distance of 3 kilometres to these groves, with the exception of factories producing olive oil, it is not permitted to set up and activate establishments which generate chemical waste, dust and fumes which would hinder the vegetative and generative growth of olives."
Not really much else to say really!!!!
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But money speaks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by wickwilly
But money speaks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, but not much use when there is no one around for it to talk to!!!
"only after the last tree has been cut down and the last river poisoned will we find that money cannot be eaten."
(Author unknown)
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One wonders how much of a backhander was paid to officialdom to get the go ahead, despite it being against Govt guidance.
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I heard 2 tractors but that is only gossip!!
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Bent as a nine bob note!!! ;)
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Yes Eric it is my opinion and like you if the problem was on my door step I would do my level best to make it some one else's problem.
Good luck
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quote:
Originally posted by loz
The Turkish Daily News had a write up on the factory in Uzumlu yesterday, I was not aware that the building infrastructure was already started.
The write up also details the polution the factory will cause to FETHIYE and and SEA, BAY AREAS including CALIS, and other areas along the coast, now looking at a knock on affect?
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=97733
re
I often venture to Uzumlu, I am not sure where the factory will be, I know the location of the quarry anywhere near?
Also as I read in the Turkish News (above) has the foundations been laid? any confirmation?
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Loz, the cement factory will be in the same place (quarry) so, as the crow flies, approx. 2/3 kilometres from Uzumlu. Incerkoy is closer. Hope this helps
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I posted some pics from one of my visits to Uzumlu. You can see where it's going to be in the distance:
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}16865&whichpage=9
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I have followed this thread with interest and now feel that it is time to add one or two comments. My wife and I were on Yetkin and Keith's stand this weekend (I am the handsome looking mature guy in the photo that Rimms took and which appears elsewhere on the forum). I am also a Director of a Turkish Building Company and we are building houses in Uzumlu. When we bought the land we did not know about the proposals for the Cement Factory, despite having carried out proper searches. I have discussed the situation with Keith and Yetkin and where people came to us at the exhibition and asked about the area in general we told them to join the forum and obviously go and see for themselves what the area has to offer. Anyone interested in any of our properties would automatically obtain information about the proposed Cement Factory from the forum if they took the trouble to join the same. Turning to Elaina's comments my proper job in the UK is the manager of a very busy Conveyancing Department for a South Yorkshire firm of Solicitors and I have over 35 years of experience in Planning Law and Conveyancing. A Land Registry search in the UK would not reveal a proposed Cement Factory. A Local Authority Search would also not reveal the same unless the factory immediately affected the property being searched unless you paid extra for a search extension it would then only cover a matter of 200metres beyond the property being searched. If you transfer this to any property in Uzumlu a search would not have revealed the possibility of the Cement Factory. I do beleive that all on the stand acted in a thoroughly professional manner throughout the exhibition.I would mention that my wife & I also have a villa in the village too! Are we concerned yes but not to the extent that we think its the end of the world. I do however commend Fiona & her husband & the others for the work they are putting in but lets not have a go at the builders or the estate agents, some of us like to think we're honest, honest.
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Mikew,
Thank you for your comments and support.
My gripe with some of the builders etc is not that they aren't telling people up front, I can understand buyer beware, but when asked about it, they are not giving potential customers the correct information.
I also find it hard to understand why none of the builders are offering support to this fight, as it will, long term, affect your future business?
Maybe Urantas have a hold over the builders (like offering free cement)that we do not know about?
Thanks
Fi
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Builders build houses Fi, when the work in Uzumlu is finished they will move on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Maybe Urantas have a hold over the builders (like offering free cement)that we do not know about?
Thanks
Fi
How NOT to get builders on your side in one easy lesson.
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We didn't get any free cement!
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Mikew, I think the point Fi was trying to make was it would be helpful if the builders/estate agents were on our side instead of 'pretending' the problem doesn't exist. I can appreciate that sellers of property wouldn't want to advertise the factory because would affect their sales but surely they could put pressure on Urantas? After all, Urantas are not the only producers of building products, there is Yigit Beton for instance. Boycott is a very strong word but... This WILL affect the sales of properties in Uzumlu. I already live here but, when told about the factory if I was buying in the future I wouldn't consider it.
You have a property here so you know that there is invariably a breeze off the mountains (fabulous in Summer) but that breeze will carry any toxins, dust etc over to the village. It is a killer, it affects asthma sufferers, it brings on emphaciama (spelt incorrectly, apologies!) And it's not just the humans who will suffer. My nearest neighbour, Ramazzan, has a herd of 200 goats, as do other goatherders in the village.
This IS a health problem. According to MikeA the kilns are supposed to be cleaned out every 6 weeks, can you honestly see that happening here??
By the way, everyone, there is an article in the Land of Lights if you can get your head around it!!!! I couldn't.
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The Kilns have to be cleaned out because six weeks is about the life of a fire brick, when the fire bricks break down the kilns start to glow red hot, if its just one or two bricks thats failed the hot spots are clearly visible and I was on the team that had to go in and replace them. after six weeks or so, if the bricks are not replaced the outer shell of the kiln overheats and distorts and no longer turns true on its bearings resulting in one ruined kiln.
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quote:
Originally posted by peecee
Mikew, I think the point Fi was trying to make was it would be helpful if the builders/estate agents were on our side instead of 'pretending' the problem doesn't exist.
I think the point Mike was making (apart from the obvious fact that lawyers don't have to use paragraphs like the rest of us) was that builders/estate agents are NOT pretending that the problem doesn't exist. I take it you didn't actually read what he said, or at best chose not to absorb it.
Let's stop the generalisations and underhand suggestions - bring to CBF even one example of a builder or agent who has tried to make a sale in Uzumlu while keeping the proposals from their client's attention. If they are doing that, it is important that you give details so we can all see.
Once again we return to the same point, it's easy to point the finger widely and vaguely, but can you show even one piece of evidence to support it?
I doubt it, but use the big white box below to prove me wrong.
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Well said Mr S! Wots a paragraph?
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OK MR S,
Tufan (Green World Homes) had clients here 2 weeks ago. They were at the point of signing when they heard about the Cement factory. They asked Tufan about it and were told it had been stopped! They were given my details and contacted me and I was able to give them the bad news that it had permission. Sale not completed.
Another client of theirs was put in touch with me a week later and again had asked Tufan about the factory and this was their reply....
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"It is a possibility of a mini cement factory in the area. We have directly contacted the company officials and also visited the proposed site. CED report (ministry of environment's report) clearly states that there is no possible negative effect on the area and the factory and the factory is not going to be visible because it is going to be built further up in the mountain and 20 metres underground".
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A Possibility, still not telling the truth!
The CED report they refer to is the first one done which has been proved incorrect and is being taken through the courts. The 2nd correct CED official report never found its way to Ankara!
The factory may well be underground but the 25mt chimmeys are not. Lets hope we do not have a big earthquake!It will be visible as much as the current quarry is visible!
Shame they and the other builders cannot be bothered to contact the working party and get the facts and start putting pressure on Urantas.
The effects on the area around a cement factory are well documented facts as far as health and enviromental damage are concerned and not ideas that have been plucked from thin air.
I for one can only read that as Urantas's stock reply to try and quell fears but the facts are the facts.
Fi
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Fi,
I'm a bit confused??!! Are Urantas planning to dig a 'cavern' in the mountain to hide this factory or are they going to dig a massive hole to put it in?
Mr S, as the post was from a 'legal' person I read it 3 times and yes, I did absorb it. I DO have a problem understanding why you seem to be taking these comments personally? There was no 'underhand suggestion' intended. I asked what, in my humble opinion, was a fair, relevant question (to which there was no reply I might add)
So, I ask again, did any, to anyones' knowledge, builder/construction company approach Urantas with a view to lodging objections to the proposed site?
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This whole thread seems to be about scaremongering and bickering about who said or did not say what to whom,
you have totally ignored the two posts from people who have actual experience of living near cement factory's
Insulted the Turks on a regular basis with your snide comments about two tractor bribes, money talks, not cleaning out the kilns etc,
( there by revealing your total ignorance of the workings of a cement factory) Is it any wonder no one is listening to you
some of you haven't a clue as to what's going on, wont listen to any point of view other than your own, make outlandish sound bites
about death and destruction, Try working with the Turks instead of insulting them at every opportunity and learn to listen to other people's
opinions, you might actually learn something new yourselves.
I know this post will not further your cause, but neither will any thing you have had to say.
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Well said Mike A. Has anyone taken the trouble to try & identify an alternative site that might be suitable for Urantas? Mikew
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
This whole thread seems to be about scaremongering and bickering about who said or did not say what to whom,
you have totally ignored the two posts from people who have actual experience of living near cement factory's
Insulted the Turks on a regular basis with your snide comments about two tractor bribes, money talks, not cleaning out the kilns etc,
( there by revealing your total ignorance of the workings of a cement factory) Is it any wonder no one is listening to you
some of you haven't a clue as to what's going on, wont listen to any point of view other than your own, make outlandish sound bites
about death and destruction, Try working with the Turks instead of insulting them at every opportunity and learn to listen to other people's
opinions, you might actually learn something new yourselves.
I know this post will not further your cause, but neither will any thing you have had to say.
The English people in Uzumlu are trying to work with the Turks but we can't sit by and watch them destroy what is after all a beautiful village and surrounding area. Once this factory is built it will be gone forever. Turkey is a large country and there must be elsewhere this could be built away from the residential areas. As you seem to feel there is no problem living in the proximity of a factory such as this perhaps you would like to purchase a property in Uzumlu after all there seems to be plenty for sale at present and you did say that you liked to come to Uzumlu to get away from the dust and heat of Fethiye in your earlier post, who knows, you may even be able to get a job working for Urantas as you seem to know a lot about the production of cement.
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I am married to a Turk who is of the same opinion as me ,as are lots of her Turkish friends. I will repeat it. Money Talks!!!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by wickwilly
I am married to a Turk who is of the same opinion as me ,as are lots of her Turkish friends. I will repeat it. Money Talks!!!!!!
Yes, I agree and if the builders and estate agents realise that in the long term they are going to lose money then they will support our cause. No one will want to buy in Uzumlu so why carry on building there
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I think that the people it effects should have a voice be they turk, german, etc.it doesn't effect me and where my places are but I can see the point of view expressed by those it will effect. To me it will be the lorry traffic which I believe has to bring in all the raw materials as well as shifting the finished product that will be the problem. it's unhelpful of those and i will include myself in this to only post to wrangle with other posters.good luck to eric and all those who refuse to steam rollered.
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Elaina
I Know very little about cement production but it seems I know more than the people who have allegedly researched the subject, which emphasizes my point exactly.
I would not consider buying a house in Uzumlu because of all the existing new builds built over the last few years, to my eyes the beauty of the village has already been compromised' but like your post, this has all been said before.
Once again you repeat the mantra of doom and gloom, beauty of the village and surroundings lost forever, etc. more of the same old rhetoric,
Your still not listening, nothings changed. and once again you have emphasized my point.
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Scunner, how are we going to know what builders/estate agents are telling or not telling individuals thinking of buying property in Uzumlu. Even if we did know that potential customers were being lied to what can anybody do here - direct them to Trading Standards, the local Builders Federation, the Association of Estate Agents!! Get real, no one here has any rights. Builders and Estate Agents have a licence to do as they please. There is no comeback. I know, as does everybody else here, a load of tales of builders/estate agents ripping off their customers. It is on this basis that it is probable builders/estate agents are likely to be 'economical with the truth' about the cement factory. But, of course, you will be shocked to hear this.
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Chris. if you read all the posts about builders and estate agents on this site with an open mind
you will see that most of them are positive with hundreds of satisfied customers, your continuing
sniping at Scunner and co is getting tiresome in the extreme.
Why cant you put your point scoring to one side and try to concentrate on your problem of the cement factory
or is that to much to ask.
What on earth makes you think your behavior is helpful to anyone.
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This thread has gone on eight pages too long, you have completely lost sight of the real battle on which this thread was based,
THE CEMENT FACTORY BEING BUILT, if the builders stopped building and the Estae Agents stopped selling in Uzumlu that will only give more reason for the factory to be built there.
Your fight is with the authorities who are going to give the ok for it to be built, no one else.
Tinx
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The title of this thread is: "Cement Factory Urgent help required"
I'm getting a bit sick of all the sniping and arguments that seem to be endless at the moment.
Let's get back to the original topic and if anyone cannot help or does not want to help I suggest they refrain from posting.
I also suggest that the people it affects most - Uzumlu residents - give up on their quest to get the builders and estate agents on their side. It's not going to happen and we are going round in circles arguing about it! My advice - concentrate on the things you can do and forget that one.
Now please - less arguing and more contructive help if possible.
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If Urantus are determined to build a plant then you should be looking at alternative sites, Its worked on numerous occasions in the UK over the past 20 years or so & theres no reason why it can't work in Turkey.In addition if the local mayors can work together then a golf course could be established in the valley bottom which in turn would mean more local jobs, Kudos for the mayors & rising house prices. Thats what everyone wants. Believe me there are golf course developers out there! Start thinking laterally----- (still no paragraphs Mr S ps hope you all had a good flight back)
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quote:
Originally posted by mikew
If Urantus are determined to build a plant then you should be looking at alternative sites, Its worked on numerous occasions in the UK over the past 20 years or so & theres no reason why it can't work in Turkey.In addition if the local mayors can work together then a golf course could be established in the valley bottom which in turn would mean more local jobs, Kudos for the mayors & rising house prices. Thats what everyone wants. Believe me there are golf course developers out there! Start thinking laterally----- (still no paragraphs Mr S ps hope you all had a good flight back)
The valley bottom is essentially a bog/swamp!
Underwater golf!
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I know it is at the moment but not necessarily after its been reworked. Not all of the land is boggy either, I've walked it often enough with inerested parties.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikew
If Urantus are determined to build a plant then you should be looking at alternative sites, Its worked on numerous occasions in the UK over the past 20 years or so & theres no reason why it can't work in Turkey.In addition if the local mayors can work together then a golf course could be established in the valley bottom which in turn would mean more local jobs, Kudos for the mayors & rising house prices. Thats what everyone wants. Believe me there are golf course developers out there! Start thinking laterally----- (still no paragraphs Mr S ps hope you all had a good flight back)
Yes I agree - a golf course wuld be a great idea - it would bring prosperity to the area and jobs for the locals. It would see the land used in an alternative and less damaging way. If only the local council could see the potential in Uzumlu I am sure they would reconsider the destruction of it with a cement factory. Yes, I know the village has changed from what it was but it is progress and it has brought many advantages to the locals who have welcomed us foreigners to live alongside them. The village and valley are still picturesque and charming and i am sure with the right kind of planning the area could prosper without the addition of a cement factory and its associated problems. Yes, Urantas can have their factory but not here - there are less populated areas not too far from fethiye where it could be built. Hisaronu and Ovacik have now been over developed - Uzumlu has potential - we cannot let them spoil it. I can see it now - the Turkish Open in Uzumlu!!
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quote:
Originally posted by chris tippett
Scunner, how are we going to know what builders/estate agents are telling or not telling individuals thinking of buying property in Uzumlu.
How are you going to know when they ARE telling them - it's the same point as you are making, only not the one you want to discuss.
quote:
Even if we did know that potential customers were being lied to what can anybody do here - direct them to Trading Standards, the local Builders Federation, the Association of Estate Agents!! Get real, no one here has any rights. Builders and Estate Agents have a licence to do as they please. There is no comeback. I know, as does everybody else here, a load of tales of builders/estate agents ripping off their customers. It is on this basis that it is probable builders/estate agents are likely to be 'economical with the truth' about the cement factory. But, of course, you will be shocked to hear this.
I'm shocked when I hear anything that you say Chris, but that's another story.
Yes, I know better than most of tales of agents ripping people off, and of them being economical with the truth. There is a 'comeback' for those affected, called going to court. Not fast and best avoided, but to say that agents are above the law and can do "anything they want" is entirely untrue.
Far better than avenues to follow when things go wrong, people should do their research PRIOR to purchasing. Not all agents will give all the information, possibly deliberately. If I was spending over £100,000 I would find out everything I could MYSELF too - I would ask all relevant questions when viewing with the agent, but I would already have armed myself with all the information I could find first. If I was buying an old Citroen 2CV and the salesman told me it could do 200 mph, I would test drive it, research it and find out for myself.
As for being "sensitive", yes I am - because certain contributors to this topic do not LISTEN. The accusation was made that agents don't tell potential customers that there are plans for a cement factory locally. I replied saying that we do (Turkey Property Centre, not agents as an entire sector). One of our developers, a UK lawyer replied that they do. Still the replies claim that agents and developers do not inform their customers of this proposal. What can I (or any other agent/developer) say to get you to drop this sweeping accusation?
When I first bought in this area there was no Calis Beach Website. I found out as much as I could (which at that time wasn't a lot) before I came out throwing money around. I came back and decided such a facility/resource would be helpful and I did it.
The main points are that agents/developers SHOULD mention it, some (I still believe most) DO, and if you bought from one that DIDN'T then you didn't do your research and ultimately the situation you will find yourself in is one that you must take some responsibility for. There are 165,000 different posts on this website alone. All the clues are here if you choose to put in a little bit of effort finding out about the place you are planning to invest in.
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It may be of interest that the whole population aged 13 & upwards of Incirkoy have sent in a petition against the proposed cement factory. I sincerely hope that this will work. At last the Turkish people are waking up to the facts of the dangers of this project.
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Thank you, Voyageur, that is good to know. It stays on the topic instead of two people, who obviously don't like each other, sticking knives in. Perhaps Uzumlu and the other villages could get up similar petitions?
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My reply was on topic and stuck knives into nobody. Please try to stick to the facts.
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A petition was constructed as far back as last July by the Turkish working group. Over 2000 signatures were gathered and given to the Vali in Mugla. Guess what? Which is why a court action is now being put together.
Eric