Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Health & Healthcare => Topic started by: vinvola on September 09, 2011, 11:54:03 AM
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Please take the time to read and respond to this article. It is important and could change the lives of everyone who lives in Turkey.
http://aegeanindependent.com/?page_id=565
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I understand where you're coming from but personally I feel that trying to change the inheritance law is slightly over the top.
How would you feel if a group of foreigners in the UK would want to change the law just because it doesn't suit them?
When you chose to live in Turkey and/or buy property in Turkey, this law already existed.
Either you hadn't done your homework properly or you had accepted this situation.
So why do you feel you have to right to ask for amendments?
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Don't know who wrote that article but if it was as suggested by the Editor - someone needs to go back to school or use spell checker. For such an important document to be sent to the British Embassy it should be written correctly.
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This document is nothing to do with us at the Aegean Independent. We are simply publicising it for those involved. A draft has already been submitted to the Consul in Ankara and when fully completed will be sent to Downing street and our pages will be updated. The spelling has nothing to do with us as we promised not to edit the document at this stage.
If the report is read properly you will realise the principles behind it regardless of who wrote it or how it is spelt.
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I found it interesting to read and I can see no harm a dialogue being held with Turkish Officials and the UK Embassy.
It is not Ex-pats demanding anything other than what they were promised when they had a Turkish Will written and paid for. We are in the same boat as we were told by a Turkish Lawyer that our wishes would be carried out according to our will and yet now we are now told that it's all down to the judge on the day.
So, Dutchie, (no real name provided) says we should not demand changes...... I did my research/homework and I am not demanding changes I'm asking that Turkish lawyers would be honest and tell us that a Turkish will is no more than a bit of paper that can be thrown out by a Turkish court. Until they do that and stop taking our money under false pretences or the Turkish judges uphold our Turkish wills I agree with the document.
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Dutchie please add your real name to your profile, xx xx is not acceptable - if you want to share opinions then a real name is required, if you read this and don't I'll have no choice but to suspend your membership. Thanks.
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And there's no point reading the FAQ section, that is FAQs on using this type of forum. Profile is the one you need, not FAQ.
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Why do I have to add my real name to my profile?
This has not been stated in the registration rules: "Registration is free and only takes a few minutes. The only required fields are your Username, which may be your real name or a nickname, and a valid e-mail address."
Don't get me wrong...I've got nothing to hide. Besides, I'm the only Dutch I know that lives in Ovacik ;-)
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@Firo, apparently you have come across a dodgy lawyer but that has nothing to do with trying to change the inheritance law or does it?
Like I wrote before...I understand where the commitee is coming from but somehow it seems strange - and to be honest - rather arrogant as well.
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I will explain, even though I really don't feel I have to. My experience is that people who do not give their name are a billion times more likely to become a problem. Since the registration notes you quote were written, events have caused us to ask for real names as a compulsory part of the registration process specific to CBF. This doesn't mean you are or will be a problem, it means that we get a far smoother life here when everyone gives their names, and that is why the two name fields are required, and why you had to enter xx in each.
Now please accept that we have been here for a long time and don't ask for a fiver a month, we just ask for people to respect each other and give their real names.
If you have nothing to hide it won't be a problem to add your real name, will it? :)
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Fair enough, I understand and have filled in my real name.
Well actually...not my real name...since we Dutch have this ridiculous naming system which gives us old fashion names at birth that are only registered in your passport and never to be used again.
Wilhelmina is the official variety but in daily life I go by the name of Miriam :-)
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Do they not give you a surname in the Netherlands either? Look, this is taking over the topic. I see you are making a stand and feel you need different rules to the 8,500 other members. I won't reply again in this topic but real name and surname by 15:00 UK time or we'll agree to differ and go our separate ways. Thanks.
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This is unbelievable. For such an important post and for someone to take it over bickering about registering their details. Now I have seen it all.
I must add that I believe that Fira is right. If the laws were in place then we would not have to believe what the bent lawyers are telling us. As for foreign people living in the UK, we all know how the British government has bent over backwards to accommodate them. All the ex-pat community here are asking for is respect for their wishes when they die.
Again I must stress that as well as commenting here please leave a message our our website.
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I'm not trying to make a stand.
You yourself have ... as a last name.
If this is such a big issue for you, feel free to suspend my subscription since I won't be filling out my real last name.
I've got no objections to people on this forum knowing who I am but I don't want other people to find me here just by googling my name. There is such a thing called 'privacy'.
And if you feel the need to suspend me, I assume that you will check all 8500 names whether they are real or not. Just by clicking on a few member in this topic alone I've come across some rather strange surnames...
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I'd love to stay and chat but I have two 10 year olds coming home soon who use the very same arguments as you do, I'll argue with them about how unfair it is that x, y or z has this or that and they don't and it's not fair. For the record, people who didn't give their name in their profile joined before it became compulsory. I could trawl the streets of Fethiye and Europe and get them to come back and do so but I think that might be a fairly wasteful use of my time. I don't give my surname because everyone knows me :) I asked nicely and respectfully throughout and you chose not to so goodbye, can't say you didn't have the chance to comply.
One thing I have learned in 8 years of doing this is that an opinion unsupported by the author's name is worth nothing and should be erased from the memories of all who read it. Now I apologise once more for taking things off topic and hope it can return.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
@Firo, apparently you have come across a dodgy lawyer but that has nothing to do with trying to change the inheritance law or does it?
Like I wrote before...I understand where the commitee is coming from but somehow it seems strange - and to be honest - rather arrogant as well.
Well I guess you have never been caught out by anyone, how clever of you and I must state that there are many hundreds of others who have made Turkish wills with different lawyers so there must be an awful lot of "dodgy lawyers " around the area.
Speak to me on this subject, when you have hit over 50yrs of age and when,who you leave your worldly goods to becomes an issue, that's if you are still in Turkey!
There is nothing arrogant about wanting what you've been promised & paid for, which is something you will no doubt learn with time.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
@Firo, apparently you have come across a dodgy lawyer but that has nothing to do with trying to change the inheritance law or does it?
Like I wrote before...I understand where the commitee is coming from but somehow it seems strange - and to be honest - rather arrogant as well.
We have also had Turkish wills made, on the recommendation of many people here.Everyone that was involved with ours from the Translater to the Notary whom all took our money said nothing about,the Turkish judge will just change your wishes to Turkish Laws.So I don,t think it is arrogant,for us to want our wishes adhered to.I just feel once again what you pay for here is not always what you get,oh and by the way you are not the only Dutch living in Ovacik
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I have been living in Turkey for a long time and I've heard and seen a lot but the country continues to surprise me.
How shocking that a lawyer - or apparently - several lawyers, certified translators and notaries have all be involved in such a rip off and have more or less committed fraud.
The Turkish inheritance law is quite similar to the Dutch law which means that you are not really able to change your beneficiaries. If you for example cut a son or daughter out of your will, he/she still has the right to claim the heritance. With that knowledge, the Turkish law doesn't seem strange to me.
I have no knowledge about the UK heritance law but if you are actually able to chose your beneficiaries the Turkish law might seem strange to you. And - as apparently has been the case with you - if you have been made to believe that you could change your beneficiaries, I fully understand your anger and your desire to change the law.
My initial reaction was based upon the fact that foreigners are trying to change a Turkish law that most Turkish people seem to agree with.
@Firo, I have been fortunate enough not to have come across dodgy lawyers. Personally I don't think that age is really a matter since we are all mortal.
@Milliemars, I haven't claimed to be the only Dutch living in Ovacik. I wrote that I was the only Dutch that I knew of. (Actually meeting other Dutch people was the reason for me to join this forum but that is off topic).
To continue briefly off topic, I would like to thank Scunner for allowing me to finish this discussion. I'll be leaving this forum because of privacy issues but I wish you the best on this forum and I sincerely hope that you will be able to resolve your heritance issues.
Selamlar,
Miriam
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I went with a neighbour to a Solicitor for him to make his will. He was told by the Solicitor although he wanted to leave his Villa solely to 1 son, after his death the other 3 remaining children would be entitled, in Turkish law, to object and get a share of his property.The only way out of this was for him to sell his property to his son and register the deeds in his sons name.
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Pleased to say that I've never had a "dodgy" Advocaat !
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Could do with a little more response from the CBF members on this one.
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In France the law called Reserve Legale means that you cannot leave property to anyone you may want to, children are automatically given a right to claim on an inheritance, or blood line members of the family if there are no children.It can be difficult to gift property when you are alive, even to a spouse.It causes problems when a family member cannot be traced.A lot of Turkish law is based on French or Swiss law.Even if a relative is given the property the matter can be challenged by other relatives. I wonder if solicitors would refuse to make a will in Turkey, why would they if it keeps you happy and they are not breaking the law?What happens on the judges decision is not their problem, they have been paid a good fee.
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Turkish law is really not that much different as people may think. In the UK a family member has the right to contest a will and if the courts decide then the will can be set aside. Expats wanting to change Turkish inheritance law is a cheek and that is for the Turks to decide. If a group of foreigners requested law changes in the UK there would be uproar.It is unfortunate but you cannot please everyone all of the time.The issue is not with the law of the land, the issue is with the legal advice that has been given.The remedy for poor legal advice is through the courts or the Turkish law society if one exists.
Part 2 of this petition deals with the treatment of Expats in Turkey and the lack of free medical care. Bizarre claims are made that the British government has broken contracts. The government has not broken any contracts,the right to free medical care still exists if you live in the UK and that has never changed.When you packed your bags and decided to live in Turkey you knew the rules and those rules have not changed.You were not deported from the UK, you left at your own free will. If anything the expat could be deemed to have broken the contract. Your taxes and NI that you have paid through your life will not probably cover the cost of the pension that you will collect. With potential increases in the pension and longer life expectancy,the total pension paid could be in excess of £150k. Most expats on private pensions(excluding civil servants) have opted for double taxation relief and are not contributing anything in tax to the UK. Your spending power is contributing towards the generation of jobs and growth in Turkey and not in the UK. Other countries with health services similar to the UK do not pay for the medical care of their nationals retired abroad.
Brits returning to live in the UK are not treated as second class, we returned and were able to register with GPs etc. I am a diabetic and immediately I was put on a screening programme and did not have to wait 3 months. I certainly do not accept the argument that most people are in Turkey because the sun is good for the conditions they suffer from. I accept there may be a few but all the people I met in Turkey not one of them ever said they were there because they had a condition that reacted better in Turkey than the UK. Most people are in Turkey because they like the country and the cheap cost of living allowed them to retire early.
Some people have also made negative comments on the way the document is written and I have to agree with them. There are numerous spelling errors and the use of some of the language is confrontational. To accuse the government of breach of contract and the use of phrases like 'Sod Off' is not the best way to get authority on your side.
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This is better. At least we are getting some points of view. Please bear in mind though that the document has not been compiled by a professional. The reason for it is simply to get peoples points of view and to see if it is worth pushing for. This is the first draft and will eventually be re-written in a more fitting manner.
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Would not a decent health insurance in Turkey be a better alternative to expecting Britain to continue taking care of people who are living thousands of miles away?
How many people would vote for a political party who supported paying ex-pats health bills in any part of the world I wonder?Especially with the NHS under so much financial pressure.
Pamela Anderson
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It seems though all Ex pats here would have to do is go to Georgia or the Ukraine and show their passport to be given free health care.I have a question for this Why?????.Can anyone answer this for me please.
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I was a bit worried about the information on bank accounts fiollowing the death of one partner, surely if you hold a joint bank account, it won't be frozen after the death of a partner, will it?
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Apparantly it has happened in the past.
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With regards to Wills that ex pats have made and paid for, I, like I would imagine most people would agree, we just want our wishes carried out, and that certainly is not a 'cheek'. If most ex pats are not Turkish citizens and have no need to leave anything to a Turkish family member, I don't feel we are asking for too much for our Wills and wishes to be to be taken notice of. At the end of the day, it is us who have paid for our property, any monies in the banks are our savings and for most of us, we have given to the Turkish economy and not taken from it.
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Yes it is a cheek. Foreigners living in the UK have to comply with UK law. So what does every country do write a law to suit every minority living in the country. Whether you are Scottish, Irish or English you are required to comply with the law that is in force in the country you are in. Scottish law has differences to laws in England and Wales but you cannot say in Manchester I am Scottish and I want Scottish law applied. If your property and your money is in that country then you have to comply with the laws of that country. The law is the law you cannot have a Pick and Mix.
Turning up in the Ukraine and getting free healthcare is incorrect. You can only get emergency treatment. This is the advice of the Foreign and Commonwealth office that was issued today to Stoke City fans as they play Dynamo Kiev this week. The issue also states that state healthcare is not very good and that anyone travelling should have adequate travel insurance.
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I believe that solicitors in Turkey are advising that foreigners in Turkey will have their wishes upheld as by the law of their native country but how can they guarantee this?If a Turkish court decides against this and maintains that Turkish law is upheld then you would have very little power to dispute it.
I wonder what happens if a British woman marries a Turkish man and she has children from a previous marriage to someone British.Who would have a right of inheritance in those circumstances?
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So is it not worth making a will in Turkey, I would want my possesions to pass to my wife and for her to myself. We do have children but reading this it sounds like they automatically become first line inheritors whether I make a will or not?
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The short answer to this comment is "Yes".
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So was that a "Yes" its worth making a will or "No" Turkish law will kick in regardless of what is written in the will?
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No it is not worth making a Turkish will and YES your children will automatically inherit their share in Turkish law whether you want them to or not!
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Firo is right. This is why this document has been put out to the public but we still need more comments. It is important that we get as many people as possible to read this and leave their points of view.
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This is how our solicitor explained the will situation to us.
If you are married and your partner dies, in Turkish law your children inherit part of the estate. What this means is the surviving partner receives half of the estate and a share of his partners half, if there are 4 children you would all receive 1/5 of the dead partners half. The children if they so wish could claim there share which could cause difficulties with property as these are classed as fixed assets, which would have to be sold to enable the estate to be divided.
In second marriages the difficulty could arise where both partners have children from previous marriages.
If both partners die at the same time, then the children inherit the estate between, no problem for most people.
Our solicitor advised us to obtain hand written letters from all our children dated witnesed notarised and signed to the effect that they have no intention of claiming any of the fixed or moveable assets whilst one partner is alive. As said in previous postings it will still be up to the Judge to decide what happens to the estate, but hopefully this could go some way to influence him.
This advice was given by our solicitor, who did explain that it's not that simple as just making a will, hopefully it was good advice, time will tell!
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Thankyou it explains the inheritance law very well.
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This is another of my pet hate subjects, Wills in Turkey, no such thing, total waste of time and money! After 4 years our friend is still fighting on, Like Hamilton, she obtained apostiled certificates stating family members do not wish to receive money from the property; however, the judge and Tapu manager threw the certificates out of court, they refused to re-cognise them. so it is after many years and thousands if £'s not TL back to the drawing board.
I am still looking for the UK lawyer who deals with the UK Will and attaches the Turkish property to the Estate of the deceased and the property sale then gets handled between the lawyers, not the judge. unfortunately for our friend this info arrived too late.
There is a long drawn out post on here regarding the experience and all the advice incorrect or otherwise. to date the only Will that I know of personally that has been actioned as requested is the Uk Will.
One day when I am not too busy, too hot, I will try again to find the details, Firo I will send you an email if you would like to help with the search.