Author Topic: The REAL nelson Mandela  (Read 11892 times)

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Offline loz

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 20:15:53 PM »
Yesterdays terrorist -- tomorrows hero -- its the Human race -- (I didn't enter   :) )

There are so many really, Kitchener in South Africa, Lee Kwan Yu, Garibaldi etc etc.

I always say Terrorist or Freedom Fighter just depends whose side you are on!

JT

Osama Bin laden for the peace prize later? 

Offline Dutchie

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2013, 21:41:11 PM »

Illuminati puppet Nelson Mandela?!? Come on, get real.

Yes, the man has used violence but why shouldn't he have. He was fighting for freedom.

I've travelled and worked in many countries but when I worked in S.A. in 1997 I was shocked.
Shocked by the discrimination and racism that was everywhere.
Shocked by the way whites were speaking about black
Shocked by the (former) police dogs that would start barking the moment they saw a black.
Shocked by the believes that blacks were physically inferior to whites.

I've seen Mandela's cell on Robben Island. A cell in which he spent many years in solitary.

GordonA, I don't know you but I assume that you are white.
Do you think you would have posted these links if you had been black?
Would you have called him a terrorist?


Offline GordonA

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 00:48:36 AM »
Dutchie, in answer to your questions, ; Do you think you would have posted these links if you had been black?
Would you have called him a terrorist?

The colour of my skin is none of your business, ( you have just revealed yourself to be racist, by asking such a question) but, I am actually, at this moment in time, a rather lovely shade of , shall we say, Caramel, due to my recent sojourn in Las Islas de las Canarias. ( The Islands of Dogs) !!  My natural colour is a rather fetching shade of pink, mayhap due to the fact that I am a true, native born Scotsman !! But my answer would be YES !! I WOULD have posted these links, after all, in my world, a terrorist is a terrorist, is a terrorist, regardless of the colour of the skin of the accuser. Ask yourself this, are/were the perpetrators of the atrocities which took place in the U.S.A. on September 2011 terrorists, or heroes?? in their own minds, they were heroes, martyrs, whatever, in the eyes of the rest of the world, they were cowardly, murdering terrorists.

Offline desmartinson

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 06:08:30 AM »
A great man in his later years, certainly not in his younger years. :(

Offline Dutchie

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 09:24:34 AM »
Dutchie, in answer to your questions, ; Do you think you would have posted these links if you had been black?
Would you have called him a terrorist?

The colour of my skin is none of your business, ( you have just revealed yourself to be racist, by asking such a question) but, I am actually, at this moment in time, a rather lovely shade of , shall we say, Caramel, due to my recent sojourn in Las Islas de las Canarias. ( The Islands of Dogs) !!  My natural colour is a rather fetching shade of pink, mayhap due to the fact that I am a true, native born Scotsman !! But my answer would be YES !! I WOULD have posted these links, after all, in my world, a terrorist is a terrorist, is a terrorist, regardless of the colour of the skin of the accuser. Ask yourself this, are/were the perpetrators of the atrocities which took place in the U.S.A. on September 2011 terrorists, or heroes?? in their own minds, they were heroes, martyrs, whatever, in the eyes of the rest of the world, they were cowardly, murdering terrorists.

You are right in a way by calling me a racist. I've never said that I'm not. I'm convinced that most people are racists, whether they are aware of it or not. Most people are prejudice as well. I'm definitely guilty of that. When I read what you had written and the links that you had placed, I classified you immediately as a white male chauvenist. I don't have any right to do so but it's something that happens unconsciously.

In my opinion the 911 attack is a completely different situation from the apartheid.
The muslim perpetrators (or you might think they were Jewish) had not been suffering for decades in the US.
They had not been beaten for decades, killed, segregated just because of their skin colour.

Black people in S.A. were convined to their own homelands, weren't allowed to travel to the white parts of the country, weren't allowed on white buses, didn't have access to proper education, didn't have access to proper health care, got beaten, killed etc etc.

Mandela started his struggle for freedom in a non violent way but turned to violence when he realised it wasn't making any difference.
Does that make him a terrorist? In my opinion it doesn't. He was fighting for a freedom that everybody should be entitled to.

The 911 attack has nothing to do with that. So yes, I call them terrorists.

Offline kevin3

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 13:27:32 PM »
The real Nelson Mandela made this planet a better place for millions of people
and hundreds of millions are mourning his passing. I am one of them.

Offline Colwyn

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 14:01:59 PM »
Nelson Mandela was a "convicted terrorist". He was convicted by a regime that might best be called "state terrorism". The usual argument against violence in politics is that opponents of the governing powers should choose the democratic route to change the regime. No such route was available to Mandela and his comrades. Was there a non-violent option to gain freedom? There was in 1990 when he was released from prison but I cannot see the possibility of one 27 years earlier when he was imprisoned. His release in 1990 was the product as much of the rising violence in South Africa as it was of international pressure. The fact that a non-violent overthrow of apartheid was achieved was due to Mandela's vision. He gathered his former prison mates to tell them that they would be absolutely justified in being bitterly resentful of those who had imprisoned them and held the whole black population of South Africa in open captivity, and in seeking revenge on these people. However, if they did so, they would create a blood bath in South Africa which would trigger a race war across Africa. He led them instead to a new path and taught the world about "truth and reconcilation" as a possibility after decades of hatred, injustice and atrocities on all sides. It was a truly great achievement.


That is my "real Mandela": I realize that others will have different ones.

Offline Scunner

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2013, 14:37:04 PM »
The truth is that the difference between terrorist and freedom fighter is simply whether you agree with what they are fighting for or not.

Offline peter16

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2013, 20:54:11 PM »
GordonA-- A question, both Jesus Christ and Gandhi were called terrorists by the ruling faction of their time and jailed by them as such. Do you therefore place them in the same category as Mr. Mandela? According to you "once a terrorist always a terrorist" or should one think about this and perhaps realise that "terrorist/murderer" depends on whether you are the oppressed or the oppressor.

Offline Eric

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Re: The REAL nelson Mandela
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2013, 22:11:22 PM »
A quote from a very good friend of mine.  A devoted Fire Officer and before that a member of HM Armed Forces, and from Asian descent.

 
 "What a sad day for all, with the passing of Nelson Mandela, I witnessed apartheid first hand in 1974, when visiting Cape Town with HMs forces, I couldn't go out with the whites, I couldn't go out with the blacks, I was classed as Cape couloured! and I ended up in hospital after a brutal !!! rugby match against SA combined services....(lasted 10minutes and it was racially motivated) I. Witnessed a horrible Regime... And vowed I would not go back, but for one mans fight and devotion....he and others turned my hatred and dislike around ..willing to forgive and accept that with change comes forgiveness ...Mr Mandela you are engraved on my hard drive for life, and may I learn from your example....rest in peace...."

Speaks volumes!!!!




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