Decline in Turkish Tourism

[Rimms]

But Keith you don't know about living in Turkey today, you live in Scotland, I live in Gunlukbasi and so I accept that you have a bit more local knowledge of Perth and I have a bit more local knowledge of Fethiye. Please start a topic about tourism to Perth and I will be happy to comment on the place having drove past it while en route to see an important customer in Dundee.

[Scunner]

Nice to have the WFLD back

Yet another recruit for the Des Martinson School - a peculiar, marginal group who believe that only people who live there can have a valid opinion about the area.

My knowledge of Fethiye/Calis (5 years full time and countless holidays/visits before and since every single year right up till within the last 12 months) is equivalent to your knowledge of Perth because you drove past once? You aren't actually making rational sense?

Tell you what George, if you can tell me it's maybe time for me to move on, can I tell you it's maybe time for you to go to bed?

[Rimms]

Keith, your advice about Perth would be invaluable to many on here, when you lived here in Turkey your advice was also invaluable to me, not least before I moved here, but then you moved away and like many departing ex pats the positives became big negatives

[Rimms]

With love WFLD, and Keith, it's time to move on

[Scunner]

I do understand - people who don't live there/no longer live there have opinions that simply don't count for anything, and because people like yourself and Des live there your opinions, in some self adopted superior way, trump everyone else's.

Once again I'll attempt to point out that this is a topic about tourist figures and I have offered thoughts on why Turkey may be losing out. The figures show it is in decline as a holiday destination. Nothing to do with what I might think about living there. Nothing to do with living there.

If tourism falling through the floor is of no concern to you, you may want to carry on banging on about living there. We are relaxed when it comes to off topic stuff.

[kayakebab]

I'm currently in Croatia, and on occasions I've been disappointed that the Turkey I visited in 1995 where waiters took the time to chat isn't so much the same anymore, probably because they know all about the UK now and have probably had it up to here with rudeness and we're not a novelty anymore.

Anyway.... Yesterday it rained, very hard.
In all the bars and restaurants the cushions and tables were very wet.
In Turkey they would have brought them in and dried everything off.
Last night we were left like lemons trying to find a dry place to sit in 3 different bars, and in the end we gave up and had a drink in our apartment.

You can sit for ages waiting to be served everywhere.
No ones taken any time at all to chat, no ones been particularly friendly, apart from one guy at one place we stayed who has travelled to many places.
In Bosnia we just put it down to the war and the atrocities they've witnessed for their abrupt to the point manner. Here, we can't come up with any reason.
Tourism is buzzing, the places we've been to are stunning, yet we don't have any sense of wanting to return to this area again.

I think in Turkey there is no doubt there's a decline In tourist numbers, due mostly to the media scare stories, and peoples perception of how close Syria is.
I remember it was quiet when the Gulf War was going on.

I don't know of many people who visit Turkey that don't have the urge to return.
Since moving to Turkey friends and family who have never been have returned several times, and introduced their friends.
Even my dad, who swore blind he would never visit, now he comes for a month at a time!

I have one friend who's been going to Dalyan for many years, yet is constantly messaging me the last few weeks to see if it's definitely safe to come.

There will always be people scared by the media etc, and opt for where they see as safer.
I bet those who are scared this year will be back as soon as they feel it's ok, whenever that might be.

[Jacqui Harvey]

We visited a lot of Baltic Countries this month and we found a great welcome everywhere.  Places like Tallin in Estonia were beautiful and restaurants absolutely immaculate.  The one thing we did note was how clean all these places were, no litter or rubbish lying around the streets.  I think this is one of the things that lets Turkey down. There is always rubbish lying around the streets and bins overflowing with rubbish on the ground.  Also dog mess, as there is no policy in Turkey of doggy bags.
I note all the time on T.A. tourists reporting all the rubbish and mess and being disappointed at the dirt lying around.  There seem to be more and more reports on T.A. of rubbish /litter and Calis is named all the time as being dirty. This is bound to put off new visitors to the area. 

[nichola]

I had been wondering, like you do, if there was actually a decline in worldwide tourism rather than just in Turkey.

It would appear not in the first quarter of 2015

http://media.unwto.org/press-release/2015-07-08/international-tourist-arrivals-4-first-four-months-2015

And from the same article

According to the forecast issued by UNWTO in January this year, international tourist arrivals are expected to increase by 3% to 4% for the full year 2015, in line with UNWTO’s long-term forecast of 3.8% a year for the period 2010 to 2020.

Re Turkey and Fethiye in particular our perception (based solely on our experience) is that while British and Russian visitor numbers are down this void has been filled by increases in Turkish holiday makers and visitors from far east Asia, in particular from China and South Korea who seem to have added Fethiye to their itinerary.

We can expect the numbers of Turkish people holidaying to fall off towards the end of August so hopefully those that normally come from the UK in September haven't been deterred.

[JohnF]

But Keith you don't know about living in Turkey today, you live in Scotland, I live in Gunlukbasi and so I accept that you have a bit more local knowledge of Perth and I have a bit more local knowledge of Fethiye. Please start a topic about tourism to Perth and I will be happy to comment on the place having drove past it while en route to see an important customer in Dundee.

George, I'm a bit surprised.  You always come across as an extremely reasonable bloke, who is quite happy to put your view across and also listen to other folks points of view.  Are you really suggesting that because someone doesn't *live* in Turkey their opinion/knowledge is less valuable than someone who does?

I have no desire to live full time in Turkey - there was a time, probably about 2002/3 when we considered it, but for a variety of reasons chose not to.  When I started working for a legal firm in Istanbul I negotiated my contract to enable me to telework, an arrangement that worked well until I "retired" last year.

Anyway, back on topic...

As we have spoken about many times on here, Spain and Portugal are far cheaper to fly to, closer, food is cheap and plentiful (no rice chips & salad to fill half the plate to hide the miserable portion) - wine, beer and spirits fabulous value - and that's the point, it's like Turkey used to be.

Its been over a year since we've been to Fethiye and have no plans to visit before May next year - that's a first for us.  In the interim we've been to Spain several times and managed to squeeze in a few days in Porto (Portugal).  Away from the resort areas, we've found there is little difference between Spain and Turkey from a financial perspective - that said, the declining lira over the past few months has pushed Turkey ahead for now. 

The biggest difference is in what you actually get for your money.  The food is good, its cheap and you can get a decent bottle of wine for less than you'd pay for a bottle of Cumartesi. 

As Keith mentioned, the punitive tax regime in Turkey relating to alcohol and foreign imports is hitting establishments that cater for tourists hard.  The price of red meat at an all time high, six monthly increases on alcohol and tobacco tax, and lets not forget the new taxes that'll be coming on gas and electricity consumption.  Given that many bars/restaurants pay their rent in EUR/USD, the falling lira isn't helping them either - if things carry on they way their going I wonder how many places will close for good at the end of this season?

You factor in the well publicised issues in Syria, the resurgence of the PKK violence, etc etc - is it any wonder Western tourists are staying away?  For many I suspect, the proximity to the Syrian border and what they read in the Daily Mail will be a deciding factor.

Despite all of the above, we still advocate for Turkey when asked - unfortunately, the Turkish government has created a situation where sometimes we feel as though we're defending the indefensible.

JF

[Colwyn]

For whatever reason, income from the Turkish tourism industry fell by 13.8% (down $7.7billion) in the second quarter of this year. As Nicola says domestic tourism has increased (up 9.6% in Q1) but very little of this is related to holiday-making (only 8.8%); by far the biggest reason for travel is to visit relatives, with health reasons coming second.

http://www.todayszaman.com/business_tourism-revenues-down-138-percent-in-q2_395183.html
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/domestic-tourists-spend-37-billion-tl-in-first-quarter-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=86538&NewsCatID=349