Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Residency in Turkey, Visas, Work Permit Questions => Topic started by: ovaciksarah on January 16, 2012, 08:22:27 AM
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Have just been told yesterday that a new law comes in begining of feb that all people with residency have to subscribe to government health insurance which is 200tl per person per month. Does that include those of us who have private medical insurance, in which case, I for one certainly won,t be able to pay for both, and am happy as I am, because at least I can choose to go anywhere in Turkey if there is a big problem.
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As I understand it if you have private medical isurance then you don't have to sign up for the goverment one. But as usual when the goverment here change a piece of legislation there is a lot of confusion as to the exact lettter of the law!
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Am I reading this right, to apply for a resident permit you must now have the SGK, does left know what right is doing on all this? The current process does not mention it at all on the paperwork at present so guess now's the time to get one before/if this is correct and coming in, I have heard that some of the permit helpers are making their clients go through the SGK process now![?]
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Does that include holiday makers who now have to buy a residents permit to holiday in Turkey for 91 days during the 6 month summer season?
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There was an article in the Hurriyet a couple of days ago and according to the article it was as follows:
They implied that anybody with a residence permit and no insurance in their home country could apply for SGK insurance in Turkey.
But this wasn't written clearly.
After having been a resident for one year uninterrupted and no insurance in your home country, the SGK insurance becomes mandatory.
The law has changed starting January 1st and if foreign residents (without insurance back home and residence longer than 1 year ) don't apply within one month for the insurance, they will be fined.
Apparently letters will be send out to foreigners.
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Well, we have just recieved our residence , it took just 10 days and it all worked.
We saw Ilknor on the way to pick it up and she informed us that after one year of residence you had to join the system
By the way, dont be tempted to tell a fib on your residence. We found that they had all our details streching back to 1988 on their computer.
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Jack- do you live there full time and have no other insutance? Thanks- just trying to get my head around this for us part timers who have own ins as well as a RP
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What happens if you have Turkish private health insurance?
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Anyone know when these letters are being sent out?This is the first time I have heard of this new law and been resident for almost 5 years.Always just paid up front for my medical treatment.
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So reading above and the Hurriet if you leave the country during the year then you do not need to have the compulsary SGK but must have some medical insurance elsewhere, does that include or exclude the NHS? Off to passport police today will see what they say.
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the consulate website suggests this might be delayed until december 2012, although the current law states by end dec 2011 with one months grace, ie all to be registered by the end of this month.
This only applies if you have had a minimum of 1 year resident. The amount you pay is dependent on income with this automatically being assessed at the highest level if you dont declare otherwise (highest level is 1773tl a month or twice minimum wage as income).
Given they are trying to get all the Turkish citizens on the system also it is no wonder it is as usual chaotic in implementation and understanding, but am sure all will become clear shortly.
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Seems to be just typical of the Turkish govt. One year they reduce the visa costs to our advantage, the following year they try to put in place complsory health insurance, as we have been expecting. As said on this subject a year or so back, why on earth can they just not leave it as it is, IF any ex pats want health isurance, then take it out. For those who don't, just pay when or if hospital treatment is needed. But no, let's just try and fleece all ex pats for something else.
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When we applied for SGK/Bagkur you had to have had a residency permit for 1 year with no breaks back to UK. Paper work was passport,RP, Nufus number. 1 form to fill in and in 1 persons name only (husband in our case) after 6 weeks we went back ,we had been accepted so we paid for the 6 weeks since applying ,as requested,and then added myelf as spouse to the insurance giving passport,RP and Nufus number and marriage certificate.The cost then was 250tl per month it has gone up to 285tl per month combined fee for both of us since.When we left the UK to retire here we sent back our Nat Insurance cards with a covering letter to say we were moving abroad permanently. We have never had any problems with Turkish Government Health Authority despite being told by ex pats we would have our insurance cancelled, payments refused and letters were forthcoming to us and we would have to pay back any money we had been allocated for medical treatment. Maybe we are lucky or maybe we followed the right procedure and also we did not come across the lady at the new SGK office, we dealt with a charming man at the old office.For us we are grateful for the assistance given us by the Turkish Government. We expected to have to pay medical insurance when we moved here but are suprised the cost is as low as it is and for us it works.I wonder what would happen if you were ever seriously ill here and had no insurance and not enough money to pay for the treatment needed. We think treatment would be refused and then what would you do if you were too ill to return to UK for assistance.We did a lot of research before we moved out here and it paid off. Some things have gone to plan and some have not but we love living here every day.
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I know of people who have been in such a situation (foreigners living in Turkey without insurance) and they did get treated.
For years the hospital tried to get some of the money (about 15.000 euros) but in the end they gave up and wrote it off.
In this case it concerned Germans without any belongings and no property.
I reckon it would have been different if they had owned a property.
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That makes it bad for the rest of us,and does not give a good impression of foreigers living abroad.Surely it is important to have medical insurance or the means to pay for treatment without it. I know people will compare this situation with how foreigners are treated by the UK health service but we do not live in the UK anymore so we abide by this countries laws. We cannot and do not expect this country to change it laws for us. We do not feel we are being mistreated by the Turkish Government in fact we are pleased to be able to join the SGK/Bagkur insurance as we would have had to pay more for private insurance,maybe we are in the minority.
We also know people that if this law comes in will not be able to afford it and do not have the means to return to the UK. They will have a big problem.
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Quackers, totally agree with what you are saying. I have been reading where some people are moaning about having to pay monthly and should only need to pay if they use the service. It is a bit like having a lottery ticket and saying I will pay for it if my numbers come up and I win the jackpot. If everyone adopted that attitude there would be no jackpot to win or in the case of the health issue there would be no hospitals to treat patients.Hospitals and health systems do not run on fresh air.These then would be the people who would start moaning about the poor quality of the medical care provided.
When leaving the UK people should have taken the health situation into account and should have ensured that they could afford it if something was to happen.If they could not afford it then they should have never left the UK.We moan in the UK when we hear of foreigners using the NHS but it is acceptable to do it in Turkey.
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After we came to Turkey my husband needed an operation and it cost us 9500tl. Two years later he needed 2 more operations we had Bagkur by then and the costs were 1800tl and 789tl instead of 13.500tl and 3500tl. A geat saving I think you would agree.We did not expect these operations so were grateful to be on the system. We were informed by ex pats ,who knew everything,that when we went to pay next payment it would be refused and we would lose our insurance and have to pay all the money saved back to the Government. Luckily I am not intimidated by people 'in the know' and got the facts for myself . We even had Esnaf phone us to say they had been told by ex pats that this was the case and was I aware. I just told them watch this space. We are happy here and do not demand anything from the Turkish Government. We make sure we understand what the system is and are polite and say thankyou. I know people who have gone into SGK office all guns blazing demanding they`re rights because they pay tax here, and telling the office staff the Turks are lucky to have us here propping up they`re country by spending lots of money. We are living here because we wanted to retire abroad it was just where to retire and this country ticked all the boxes and still does.
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Sorry if this has come up before but need some clarification. What if you only get residency so you can stay longer than 90 in 180 days ie we usually stay for two 12 week periods between May and October. Would we have to take up insurance.
It seems to me that people who only want to stay part-time in Turkey are going to be forced to pay more ie residency, health insurance. Any guidance would be appreciated.
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quote:
Originally posted by col
Seems to be just typical of the Turkish govt. One year they reduce the visa costs to our advantage, the following year they try to put in place complsory health insurance, as we have been expecting. As said on this subject a year or so back, why on earth can they just not leave it as it is, IF any ex pats want health isurance, then take it out. For those who don't, just pay when or if hospital treatment is needed. But no, let's just try and fleece all ex pats for something else.
They could have spun this far better - they should have left residency at the higher rate and announced that (kindly) health insurance was now included at no extra cost :)
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inclined to agree keith, but would that then have met the EU objective of getting us all registered? (Yes the information is shared with relevant governments).
The health scheme is UN driven, basicly putting in famiy GP system and NHS for all citizens, the anomoly of foreign reidents has been allowed for, once they have been resident for the qualifying period.
At present we are not being asked to pay any different amount to a Turkish citizen except my understanding is turkish pensioners do not pay, it is, as always here, the implementation that is chaotic and the threat of fines etc when not even the British consulate can get the same answer from different departments.
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Surely you would take out holiday medical insurance before you came out on the 90/180 visa . If you do not over stay the visa 90day max stay and return to Uk for 90 days before you came out again you would not need residency or Turkish medical insurance. If you want to come back out before the 90 day compulsory stay in UK is up you will need to either rethink your holiday dates to avoid residency and medical insurance or take residency and then insurance when/if it becomes compulsory. I certainy would not holiday here with no insurance.
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I fully understand the need for all expats to have some health insurance, but surely if you can prove you have private Turkish health insurance that should be enough. It is just your choice. It means we will have to cancel our privagte as I certainly can,t afford both,
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I am confused,but then that can be easy for me,I have read that this maybe be delayed until Dec 2012,ok fine,do we still have to register by 31st January and if so do we have to start paying from the 1st Febuary as stated,even if they pospone it again.......
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Quackers We totally agree with your posts. We too have SGK/Bagkur and went about obtaining it last year and visited the SGK old office just before it moved, filled out the forms in my husbands name and showed the appropriate documents. Six weeks later we were both on the insurance and could obtain any treatments we needed. Luckily we have only had to use this once for a minor operation on my husband. When we made the appointment at the Esnaf as soon as the details were entered on the system it was flagged that we were covered by Bagkur so the operation did not cost as much as we expected. Like you and your husband we did the research before we moved here and as we are both over 65 the cost of private medical insurance was prohibitive so we made sure we had enough available funds to pay for any treatment. We always find that if you treat people with respect and courtesy they are only too willing to help. As you say we now live in Turkey and abide by Turkish laws and customs. We are extremely happy here and have never regretted the move away from the UK where, although we would be getting free health care I am sure the standard of that care would be lower than that we have received here.
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quote:
Originally posted by yakamoz
Sorry if this has come up before but need some clarification. What if you only get residency so you can stay longer than 90 in 180 days ie we usually stay for two 12 week periods between May and October. Would we have to take up insurance.
It seems to me that people who only want to stay part-time in Turkey are going to be forced to pay more ie residency, health insurance. Any guidance would be appreciated.
It has been written a zillion times but I'll do it just once more:
The new law only applies to foreigners who don't have any medical insurance in their home country (and who have been a resident in Turkey for more than one year uninterrupted).
Since you don't live here full time, this probably means that you are covered by the NHS in the UK so it doesn't concern you.
edited to clear confusion
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Please forgive me for being pedantic as you have neen both patient and very helpful Dutchie but your own reply to the poster highlights a crucial query when you say " been resident/ have residency" . Therein lies a massive diff!!!
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Also "have residency in Turkey for more than one year uninterrupted" - one year is the minimum you can have it for, so that either means "have residency", or that people who take one year's residency don't, but those who take longer do..?
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The problem is that the letter doesn't state clearly what they mean.
But they are for sure not talking about having a residency permit.
When I wrote "have residency" I didn't mean "have residency permit"
Maybe my English wasn't very clear so apologies.
I'm just a Dutchie after all 8)
The verb being used in the letter is "ikamet etmek".
If you use zargan.com for translation it comes up with the following possibilities:
to abide, to domiciliate, to hang out, to inhabit, to hold state, to dwell, to reside.
Have your pick :P
But don't forget, that as long as you have an insurance in your homecountry, the whole law doesn't affect you.
By the way Scunner, you can have a residency permit for as long as you want to have it. I have one for five months at the moment since my passport is running out.
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Thanks yet again Dutchie. I appreciate your help.
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I see in todays Fethiye News that they(FNews) are looking into the Health Insurance queries and will put a message on they`re website to let us all know what is happening and what we have to do.It affects Turkish people as well as expats so we are not being discriminated against.
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I have found out today that all Turkish people must register for medical insurance now. If they do not earn enough money to pay for it there is a Social Security system in place and the Government will pay it for them. If they earn over the lower limit they will pay some money towards it on a sliding scale. However I do not think this will apply to us ex pats as when we applied for Residency we decclared that we had enough money to live on here.We gave copies of our bank statements.
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The question of mandatory health insurance for all came up in the Yes / No referendum held in 2010. The Turkish people voted Yes for it. As foreigners living here we were not given any option and also now not being given any accurate information. People i know in Bodrum are saying they need to pay 30 TL, Marmaris are saying 200 - 213 TL, here we are told 215 TL. Why should a single person pay the same amount as a family with any number of children? It seems to me that there are many open questions that are not receiving any answers, which is just resulting in mass confusion and worry. As I do not wish to be slapped with a massive fine i will pay the amount asked, however I do not agree with it and will leave registering until the very last minute in the hope that some clear information is released to all foreign nationals from the relevant authorities.
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quakers the amount you are asked to pay IS income related - for everyone!
if you dont declare income as less than twice the minimum wage (ie currently 1773tl)by the end ofthis month, then you are automaticly assessed at maximum payment due.
Many get residency via capital held rather than income, others are on less than full state pension, so this could be relevant as it would halve the amount due monthly.
Addtionally I believe income is split between the no of persons in a household - although presently common law relationships are not recognised this might help married couples.
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So,what do I need,where do I go to register and when?How do I prove my income?I get pension paid into account in scotland and dont have the books over here.
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So if ex pats have less than the min income (1773tl) will they be eligible for a reduced rate/free payments as the Turkish people are.I ask becuse some of my friends are on a low income and this insurance may cripple them financially and force them to live here illegally by not registering for medical insurance or return to UK.
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edit: it seems that the income for foreigners will be the fixed amount of twice the minimum wage. So the fee won't be income related.
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Thanks Dutchie I will pass that on to them.
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I'm still not sure whether capital is counted as income or just the interest paid on it. If your pension is paid in the UK I also can't see how the Turkish authorities would recognise that income (assuming you were prepared to take the chance of not declaring it)
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I was told today that if you are not registered for Health Care you will not be able to renew your residency permit so they are going to get us one way or another :-(
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I had written a reply to Quackers but I can't find it.
Anyway, I had written that I was under the impression that I had read that the insurance fee of foreigners was also income related but when I checked it, I couldn't find it anywhere. It says in the letter that the income of foreigners will be registered as a fixed amount of twice the minimum wage. The fee will be 12 procent over that amount so around 212 TL.
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Is that 212 each?
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It doesn't say but I don't think so.
I assume it is for families, like it is for Turks.
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For a couple or a family, that sounds reasonable. I just had a look at AXA and they want £168 per month just for one person !
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We pay 285tl per month for the 2 of us and it is good value. But some ex pats are on a low income and this ammount will cripple them financially. They did not expect to have this expense when the moved here. However they will have to have some insurance and if they dont they will have to go back to UK or another country. It is not the Turkish Goverments fault if you do not have enough money to pay for it. You should be able to support yourself when living abroad.I worry about my friends because if they get seriously ill and unable to travel what will they do, die.
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Dutchie, if the letter states that all yabanci are assessed at the max, how can it tie in with the law drafted and also the much lower level of income required for residency?
I would suggest that is something the British Consul needs to petition about rapidly if is the local interpretation.
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I assume because it will be too much hassle for them to check foreign incomes.
How will they ever know whether people are showing all their income or not?
But you're right that it isn't fair on people with a low budget.
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Hi- i have a personal query if anyone can help id appreciate it very much. I got a 3 year residency in may 2011, and have just returned from the uk after a months holiday there. So i wont have lived a full year IN turkey. Do i have to go pay health insurance starting now or would it start in may. Do i need to register before 31st on jan or face a 800tl fine? I have just had information thrown at me from people and cant find any official info anywhere, theres nothing on the british consulate website... Hope someone can help. Sorry if this has already been asked but everyones situation is different, im 20 so dont get a pension etc, i basically live off my partners wage and the small amount of savings that i have,i personally think that if we have to pay insurance into the system we should be allowed to work as turks in the uk on settlement visas are, or be able to choose to face paying full price for health care.
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This is what I've just written in another topic about the insurance issue:
I spoke with Birsen Hanim - the Director of SGK Fethiye - this morning and she was really friendly and helpful.
This is what she said about the subject:
Q: Who need to register at the SGK office?
A: All foreigners with a residence permit who have stayed longer than one year.
Q: If somebody has a one year residence permit and is at the moment for example in its four month?
A: No, they don't need to register since they haven't stayed longer than one year yet.
Q: If somebody has a six month residence permit but had a one year residence permit before that?
A: They won't need to register since we don't look at previous residence permits.
Q: Do you take in consideration the amount of time that people are actually staying in Turkey?
A (after having called the head office): No, we won't be checking passports to see how long they are actually staying. Anybody with a residence permit that has stayed longer than one year, needs to register.
Q: What happens if people don't register:
A: If they don't register before January 31st, they will be fined (note: I didn't have pen and paper with me and can't recall the exact figure but it was around 800 TL).
Q: What happens to foreigners who are currently not in Turkey and won't be able to come before January 31st?
A: Nothing has been said about that officially but I assume that there won't be any problems as long as they register after their return to Turkey and when they show the stamps in their passport.
Q: What if foreigners can proof that they have a health insurance in their home country?
A: They need to show an official translation of their social security status and it has to show that they will be covered in Turkey.
Q: How about foreigners with a private Turkish health insurance?
A: They still need to register and have a SGK insurance.
Q: What will the SGK insurance cover?
A: It will have the same coverage as it has for Turkish people but pre existing illnesses won't be covered.
Q: What is needed for registration?
A: Passport, residence permit and an official translation of marriage certificate for married couples. We also need an official translation of the Social Securiy status in their home country but since it is not realistic to expect that in such a short period of time, this can be brought later.
During the conversation, Birsen Hanim more or less contradicted herself.
I didn't point this out (since first of all it would be rude but secondly since I didn't want to point out the loopholes).
She said that foreigners with a one year residency permit need to register after they have stayed one year. But if the year isn't over yet, they don't need to register.
To me this sounds that nobody with a one year residency permit needs to register since you will always be within that one year (and they don't look at previous years).
It becomes a different story for people with residency permits longer than one year.
If you have an e.g. 3 year residency permit and more than one year has passed, you need to register.
I think this was more or less the whole conversation we had. If I think of anything else, I'll add it here.
In your case, it means that you need to register and pay for SGK in May.
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Thank you Miriam, that is very clear and also very comprehensive (no pun intended) It looks like many will have to cancel existing insurance arrangements
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Thanks! I reckon thats going to answer a lot of peoples questions :)
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One question that seems to differ from what we had been led to believe is the subject of having a health insurance policy in the uk. To what originally seemed quite straight forward, as in....'if an ex pat had a uk health insurance policy, there was no need for the this turkish insurance' (or on those lines) The latest seems to suggest that it has to cover an expat in Turkey, and yes of course that would make sense. There seems to be very few uk health policies to cover this, meaning an expat would have to take out an 'expats health insurance policy.
It would be helpful if any members have just a uk health policy that does in fact cover the applicant for being in Turkey.
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My sister is here with us for 1 year(here since Oct 2011) and she has residency because of the new laws coming into force on visas. She has 1 year health insurance with a UK company (its called a gap year insurance and you can only have it once). We are going to register her next week and we are going to point out the insurance she has already and see what they say. I will post the results here.
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I had a quote for a private Health Insurance Policy last week - cheapest they came up with was £106.00 a month. SSK/UHI whatever they want to call it is cheaper but still going to struggle to pay it :-)
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My son,s and my joint private insurance is 1365tl per year, and I can c hoose if ill to go to any hospital anywhere in Turkey, much cheaper than the turkish insurance as I have no claims for the last 7 years. If this new law fall down as most of their laws do after a few months and I have cancelled my privaste one, I will have great difficulty in starting again. Where exactly is the office we have to go to to register?
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Well done Dutchie and Quackers for keeping this discussion level headed and informative..........valid points are always heard on here but usually shot down with moans and groans. It's nice to see actual helpful info rather than a litany of negative whinges
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quote:
My sister is here with us for 1 year(here since Oct 2011) and she has residency because of the new laws coming into force on visas. She has 1 year health insurance with a UK company (its called a gap year insurance and you can only have it once). We are going to register her next week and we are going to point out the insurance she has already and see what they say. I will post the results here.
Surely your sister doesn't have to register because she has not had residency for 1 year??
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quote:
Originally posted by ovaciksarah
Where exactly is the office we have to go to to register?
It's about 4 blocks from the otogar roundabout on the LHS going towards Kipa.
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I expect not Baz but we are going to the office to find out and make sure just in case. Anyway she may want to stay longer as she loves it here even in the rain and cold and her UK insurance will run out and is not renewable.
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State Health insurance, yet another way of extracting money from Yabancilar (Foreigners). What is wrong with, Pay As You Go, when you need it pay for it, if you wish to sign up for the State System then that should be your choice. I believe we are being asked to register because the powers that be do not know who actually lives here, and this is merely a Census to try and find out and identify us. The British Government, will as usual do nothing to assist us. Why not e-mail The Honoury British Consulate in Fethiye at bhcfethiye@superonline.com and make your opinion felt. Why did we pay NI for all those years, for your own lifetime healthcare or for the benefit of the illegal immigrants that swarm in to the UK on a daily basis?
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Further to my earlier post, here is the e-mail address for the BRITISH AMBASSADOR, David Reddaway in Ankara: david.reddaway@fco.gov.uk This is where the buck stops, get those e-mails flowing...
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You paid NI for years to be covered by the NHS while in the UK, it is our own choice that we decide to go and live in another country, therefore giving up a lot of what your motherland has to offer you free.
When we move to start a new or better life in warmer climates then we are a guest in that country and have to accept the laws of that country and if they decide to bring in health-care as compulsory to foreigners living in their country we have to accept it as a way of life.(not that I agree with it)
It might not be just Turkey who wants to know who is actually in their country but also the UK would like to know just who is not in the UK anymore and claiming benefits, there has been a lot of talks going on between Britain and Turkey just recently, as soon as you take out a residency in Spain and Portugal and sign up to their Health Care it is reported to the UK.
You may have paid NI for years for your own lifetime health-care, but it is not just the illegal or legal immigrants who are benefiting on what you have paid it is also a lot of your own countrymen who have lived on benefits there whole life who are benefiting from it as well.
It all depends on what it will cover a person for, but at 2,500 lira per year for a married couple it might be good value, we will have to wait and see.
In the small print of a lot of private health insurances it states that if you have had an illness and then it recurs you are not covered for it, or you can have health checks to get a diagnoses of the ailment and then not be covered for treatment after that.
I paid NI and tax for years in the UK but by my own choice decided to go and live and work aboard, so gave up my rights to a lot of things, but that was my own choice no one made me do it, so it all comes down to you have to live to the laws of the country you are living in and what ever they decide to charge you for the pleasure to do so, or sell up and move on.
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I have lived in Turkey for nine years and from my considerable previous experience you will be paying out and will getting little back. To quote from Land of lights: even with SSK cover, no pre-existing or chronic illnesses will be covered by the scheme. So diabetcs and asthmatics for example, will still have to pay. What is wrong with paying when you require care?
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How will they know if you have a pre existing condition? They can't get hold of your medical records, can they?
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i don't believe they can get my medical records - but if you were to get it rediagnosed here you would have to present yourself to the Dr with symptoms he could identify as what you already have - in my case I have an underactive thyroid - I would have to stop taking my medication for the symptoms to reappear - then go through all the tests again to get the diagnosis - I'd rather keep buying my medication over the counter - my 6 monthly blood test isn't expensive either. But you are right - if you have something pre-existing like asthma I guess turning up at hospital when you are having an attack and claiming it's the first time wouldn't be out of the question.
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The only way I would think they will know is if you are on medication for it or tell them. Rimms.
Until I read what the British Embassy/ Consulate have to say regarding the cover and what you will get I am keeping an open mind on it all.
Yes the paper did state you would not be covered for chronic illnesses, but a lot of private insurances do not cover for this unless you take out extra cover and pay a lot more to have them covered, I had a health insurance once that covered me for an operation but not for a bed or the stay in hospital, did not know this until after the event and I put a claim in, so I always read the small print now.
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Happy Brit, your opinion is as mine, and I would think the majority, as I have certainly posted before.
For those who want to take it out and maybe benificial, then go ahead. For those of us who don't, just leave it as pay If or when anything is needed, we all know where we are, and the higher hospital costs etc, if needed. Myself after 4 years, have never even needed to go to pharmacy for asprin.
We all realise that laws are laws wherever we decide to live, but to have this just about forced upon us is not good, especially as 'pay as you go' has worked fine and we know where we stand.
We are also aware of the rules etc about being out of the uk for a certain amount of time, and what or what we maynot get from the nhs, despite paying NI for x amount of years, and i'm sure we all except that, as it is also a uk law. I very much doubt many ex pats in Turkey are benefit cheats, for one reason, Turkey is not in the EU and therefore would (I think) be very difficult to cheat, compared with say Sapin.
But this confusing compulsory health insurance has not been thought out at all clearly, but should that really surprise anyone!
No doubt during this coming year, it will make sense and no doubt there will be changes, for the better we would hope.
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Quote But this confusing compulsory health insurance has not been thought out at all clearly, but should that really surprise anyone!quote
How do you know this has not been thought out clearly, and why should it not surprise anyone, to my mind someone has thought it out clearly to collect more money into the economy.
As I said before I do not agree with it, but what can you do.
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i dont actually see anything to complain about EXCEPT where yabanci residents are being treated differently to Turkish citizens.
These are the issues I would like for the British consulate to take up.:
The disparity on the turkish sliding scale of income related payment, particularly given that the level assessed is at odds with the law regarding income levels to acquire residency. (might be a Human rights case that one)
The disparity where Turkish pensioners do not pay, and Turkish pensioners resident in the UK do not pay, yet UK pensioners in tukey do.
The disparity whereby Turkish citizens pre-existing conditions are covered yet uk residents ones are not. I believe a turk resident in the Uk with pre existing conditions would be covered.
The lack of clear guidance for Uk citizens on its website, in a timely fashion, to enable compliance.
I do however accept that the discussions and obtaining of clear inormation are probably as difficult for the Consul as the rest of us.
the level of fine, given no clear and timely guidance issued to its citizens residing here.
Everything else is personal feeling/ circumstance/ frustration, and honestly that is no different whether you are Turkish or Yabanci.
The law has been issued for quite some time, is fully available in English and the only real complication is at the levels of local interpretation and lack of clear guidance.
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quote:
Originally posted by col
For those who want to take it out and maybe benificial, then go ahead. For those of us who don't, just leave it as pay If or when anything is needed, we all know where we are, and the higher hospital costs etc, if needed.
Isn't that just as impractical in Turkey as it would be in the UK.
The building of hospital, health centre etc. facilities cannot possibly be funded by a "pay as you go" system
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quote:
Originally posted by hubblebubble
The law has been issued for quite some time, is fully available in English and the only real complication is at the levels of local interpretation and lack of clear guidance.
I thought/read that this only became law on Friday 20th Jan as prior to that the Consulate stated it had verbal information this would not be active / come into force?? till Dec 2012
Whatever!!! it does NOT give enough time for people to adhere to the law and I am sure sure there will be pandemonium this week when we all try to register :-\
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Apparently the queues are very long to register,not with just UK citizens. As I have said before my husbands existing illness diagnosed in the UK has been recognised here. All he had to do was pay a doctor at the hospital to do the tests needed to confirm his illness . The doctor then sent a report to Ankara. They stamped the report and added his illness to his Bagkur/SSK on they`re computer system which is accessed by pharmacies and hospitals, dentists and opticians. We got a copy of the report for our files and produce this report ,if requested, when we get a prescription filled for his medication.The medication is then free apart from asprin and vitamins which cost very little.
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cinders that simply is not true, I for one was reading this law at least a year ago in relation to some charity work being paid for by a local charity. Act 5510.
The Consulate website, whilst stating for some time about the verbal discussion, additionaly stated that the current law had NOT been changed and would need to be if Dec 2012 were to come into effect.
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I think Quackers you are fortunate - as the law states clearly Foreign citizens pre-existing chronic illness will NOT be covered under UHI.
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Regarding Highlanders comments. Why not look at Letoonia and Esnaf Accounts and see who has contributed the most money to their annual turnover, foreigner or turkish national? have you ever heard of private enterprise?
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Again, give the TOP MAN some hassle (very appropriate)... The e-mail address for the BRITISH AMBASSADOR, David Reddaway in Ankara: david.reddaway@fco.gov.uk. This is where the buck stops, get your e-mails going...
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quote:
Originally posted by happy_brit
Why not look at Letoonia and Esnaf Accounts and see who has contributed the most money to their annual turnover, foreigner or turkish national?
Can you show me where this information is available?
Also please can you put your correct name into your profile. What you have is not acceptable. Thanks.
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Scunner, wake up. It was a rhetorical question. Private Healthcare in Turkey is big (private) business!!! Funded ny non nationals
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Please don't tell me to "wake up" - you suggested we looked at figures that we are unable to. Your cannot back up your claim.
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quote:
Originally posted by happy_brit
What is wrong with paying when you require care?
Can you tell me if it is the case that Esnaf could be run on solely a "pay as you go basis"
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With a large number of new members joining in the last few days - presumably due to the issue in this topic - can I remind everyone that this is a discussion forum, not a place for aggression. We are all here to try and make sense of things and to help others where we can. Please help where you can and if you can't post calmly and respectfully, we'll see that you won't be able to post at all. Thanks.
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Is that a threat to free speech? Trouble with the British, too civilised to see and and say when they are being taken for a ride. Block my posts if you like, your system is easy to get around. Without wishing to cause offence, who on this Forum feels we are being take advantage of with Compulsory Healthcare??? If so e-mail your Ambassador, stand up and be counted.
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Would you be good enough to answer my question please.
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quote:
Originally posted by happy_brit
Is that a threat to free speech?
As you appear to be still talking, no.
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Highlander, no problem, the Esnaf and Letoonia are private hospitals, business as usual. The Turkish people part fund it with their state system and we pay whatever fees are requested when we use the service, exorbitant or not! FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Incidentally the Devlet SHOULD BE for the sole use of Turkish people, it is after all a State Hospital! This system has been in place for years.
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what if all ex pats suddenly decided to close all their banks accounts ( highly unlikely but just suppose ) and move back elsewhere? how would businesses in calis, fethiye,hisaronu, olu deniz survive. i love staying here but i am not going to be taken for a mug. at the end of the day this is just another tax which of course the ex pats will pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! remember the road tax,the 90day visa. watch this space.
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They survived for thousands of years before the British expat turned up, I'm sure they'd find a way...
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happy brit you do write some nonsense. To say that it is the expats that are the main source of income for 2 big hospitals in Fethiye is a load of tosh.Highlander and Scunner asked you to back the statement up by giving a link to these hospital accounts. Now you have changed your tune as you cannot back up the claim.
Dealing with the issue that the UK government has a duty to provide you with healthcare while you live in Turkey. You choose to live abroad and you were not forced to live abroad. If you did your homework before you left you should have known that Turkey does not operate a free healthcare system. Come back and live in the UK and you will qualify for free healthcare under the NHS. Healthcare has not been taken away from you.
It is perfectly acceptable for you to have a go at foreigners using and abusing the NHS, but it is acceptable for you to do that in Turkey. Turks pay high amounts of income tax and also have to pay this statutory health insurance but you think you should be exempt from having to pay for it and only pay if you get ill.It is a bit like saying that I will only pay car insurance to the insurance company when it is necessary to make a claim.
In the meantime before you have to use it who is actually going to pay for the upkeep of the health system?
I find your statement that the state hospital should only be for Turks insulting. When I lived in Fethiye the state hospital was the only place that I could go to see a physio. So under your rules I should not have had treatment for a serious ankle problem.
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"In the meantime before you have to use it who is actually going to pay for the upkeep of the health system?"
My point exactly - it seems to me to be nonesense to say that a health system soley on pay as you go.
I think happy_brit now accepts this point.
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Jack13 - may I ask if are you in favour of the reduced residency charges.
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When I read some comments on this forum I wonder what some expats expect. Some think because they bought a property that they should have the right to only abide by those laws that suit them.They moan about the visa changes to 90 in 180 days because it ends the visa runs and is forcing people into having to get a residents permit. Anyone permanently living in a country should have a residents permit. Changing the visa rules brings Turkey in line with the rest of Europe. Expats should be thankful that they are allowed to get a residents permit so easily. Look at the hoops a Turk has got to go through to get into the UK.I know a number of Turks who applied for visas and have been turned down. I have never heard of a case where an expat has been refused a visa.
The vast majority of expats do not pay any direct taxes in Turkey but they expect the Turkish government to provide an infrastructure that is similar to what they left in the UK.They pay around £150 a year in council tax and they expect motorways for it.
We now have some people up in arms about this health insurance and how they are going to find ways round it.We have some saying that it is the responsibility of the UK government to look after their health needs.In my opinion the introduction of a healthcare system for the whole population is a good step forward and all should have to contribute.I see it as a step forward by the government.An individual should not be refused medical care because they cannot afford it.It is the responsibility of the Turkishgovernment to look after the majority of the population and it is not there to ensure the comfort of a few expats.
I think some people need to get a grip on reality. We are living in a very different world than what it was even 5 years ago.
Threatening to move money out of the country and go to live somewhere else really is a threat without teeth. At the end of the day the Turks have got the most important thing in the capital investment that has been made in property. Look at the impact on the housing market if every expat put their property on the market. They would be lucky to get 30p in the £1 invested.
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A reasoned coherent post OPO as far as I can see.
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Very well said OPO, I couldn't disagree with any of that (which is fairly rare for me as I think you know).
In addition to your last paragraph I must add that I despise the "where would they be without us Brits" attitude. A notable proportion of British expats truly believe they are the saviours of Calis, or Fethiye, or South West Turkey or Turkey itself. You are not, they do not need you and the area does not either - although you are warmly and genuinely welcomed if you choose their country to be your home. Over the last ten years the number of Brits there has increased incredibly and given the choice between Calis 2002 and Calis 2012 I know which one my heart prefers.
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highlander. in reply to your question. yes i was quite happy that the cost of residency did drop quite dramatically but at the end of the day there always seemed to be an ulterior motive to recoup the lost revenue thru visas and such like. i am quite happy if this health insurance does go thru to pay the cost. we live in a foreign country therefore i am quite happy to abide by THEIR rules.
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Thanks Jack13 - I must have misinterpretated your previous posts.
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We've lived here for 7 years and last year for the 1st time in my life I ended up in hospital. The level of care was great and well worth the costs involved.
However it made us realise we are, after all, vulnerable and have to think ahead.
Don't ever take your health for granted.
We are OK with paying the insurance but just totally confused by the lack of information and worried about being fined!
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So we are all agreed- forcing foreigners to join a health scheme which will give them less coverage ( no pre exist cons) than the locals is fair?
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Ditto Janmack, I have no problems with taking and paying the insurance In fact I welcome it, been looking for affordable insurance for years. But I only have 3 months left on my 5 year residency so cant take it out yet :( I think! Will double check this week! Its not the fact that this has been bought into effect, but because there is so much confusion of how it works and who must and who cant register, and the very short notice to sort it out
By the way. only my guess and opinion , I think that while people are saying just do 1 year residency at a time to get around the system, Im presuming that having one year remaining and ignoring previous residency is a one off while the scheme is launched, After that as usual, the residency permit will be taken as extending it. so extra years will count towards SSK
pps I forecast this when residenct visa went down :D
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I cannot understand for the life of me with all this giving short notice to sort it out, it is only 210 lira a month or if it was the full 2,500 lira you had to pay no one should have any problem of walking into a bank and paying it, if you have you should not be living in Turkey.
Brit expats in what ever country they more to somehow get it into their heads that they are the most important person in that country and that country should change for them.
You are a guest in a foreign country you choose to either go live or work there the people of that country did not beg you to come.
Maybe the people of Turkey enjoyed their lives and were maybe happier before we all moved in on them.
You have never had it so good, you bought cheap houses, hardly any tax to pay on them a year, good interest on your money, now if they brought the property tax in-line with the UK's Council Tax what would a lot of you do then, crime is low in most places, you can at least walk out without the fear of someone suddenly taking a liking to your mobile phone and stabbing you to get it, clean fresh air and a lot of history all over Turkey to go and see.
As for the medical insurance it is a good thing and a good step forward, I have been looking on line and a lot of the private health insurance does not cover for previous medical conditions well unless you pay through the nose for it.
People state well we do not live in Turkey full time only five or ten months here the rest in where ever they come from, so what are you going to do regarding a sudden serious accident if you have to stay in hospital for a few weeks or more, how are you going to pay for it, unless you take out medical insurance for the whole family to cover everything, which I am sure would be more expensive.
But you still think you should be able to just use the system as a pay as you go, what about the upkeep of all these hospitals and clinics don't you think you should be paying a bit towards the upkeep of them as well.
Also if you are only going to get a RP for a few months, which I believe will be stopped, a year will be the shortest if it is not already, how are you going to get a car, telephone and the rest that is required only if you have a RP, surely it is better to get a five year RP and pay the health insurance and just come and go as you please.
As for someone saying that they are not out of the UK for more then three months so they are still able to use the NHS, well surely flying back and forth four times a year with a family costs more then a RP and the health insurance combined and if the children are school age how can you do this.
Scunner has already said he liked Calis in 2002 better then 2012 so no doubt the Turkish people most likely think the same give us back our life as it was before they all descended on us, yes some have made money from you buying there but others haven't.
Turkey is not a small country, go visit the companies in Istanbul and Samson then see for yourself the money that is in the country and the wealth and the hospitality they give you when you visit them, not like the UK, yes a limousine to collect you from the airport to the best hotel there is booked and paid by them, looked after all the time you are there, wife's taking you out while your husband is doing business with the company,and I am not talking just about the big bosses wife's the workers wife's as well.
Turkey owes you nothing you owe Turkey for them letting you go over there and live and have a better life so shut up grumbling about every little thing they change and if I hear one more person say "Well this is Turkey" I will find it hard not to hit them.
And if you cannot afford to live and pay for any changes that come along you should not be living there in the first place.
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brilliant Sus.
I haven't lived here long, but the thing I hate most is that some Brits spend their lives moaning about all things Turkish.
If they don't like it no ones forcing them to stay.
They're probably the same people who spent their time in the UK moaning about foreigners coming in and wanting everything for nothing.
Im looking forward to having peace of mind as I get older that there's a good system of healthcare and that I will be looked after in the worst case scenario.
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Well said Sus!
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I for one agree withh happy_brit. I quite happily pay approx 1880TL PA on prescription drugs for existing ailments. Now I am expected to pay an additional 2500TL and I will still have to pay for my drugs! Not only that my partner and I are not married so our total bill is 5000TL, more than our rent!I think the visa charges should have been left as they were and we pay as and when we require healthcare, at whatever the true cost is. As in all things, keep it simple.
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Do you not think though that someone who's current health level requires 1880TL worth of prescription medicines a year and living in a foreign country should have some sort of medical cover in place?
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quote:
Originally posted by simon66
I for one agree withh happy_brit. I quite happily pay approx 1880TL PA on prescription drugs for existing ailments. Now I am expected to pay an additional 2500TL and I will still have to pay for my drugs! Not only that my partner and I are not married so our total bill is 5000TL, more than our rent!I think the visa charges should have been left as they were and we pay as and when we require healthcare, at whatever the true cost is. As in all things, keep it simple.
Well in that case you might be better off going back home and getting it all free.
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Well said sus:D
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Well we got there just after 9am and it was chaotic !
Saw some Brits coming out - early birds:D
I had collected our forms on Friday so filled them in as best I could over the weekend and got my photocopies on Saturday locally.
Went into the managers office on the right and said "I think I am complete" in Turkish (Gill is not sure I am complete) - she checked thru and my only problem was I had photocopied the picture page of my blue book and she wanted the next page and also asked me to add a tel number at the foot of the form.
We went back to the photocopy shop (just to the left at the lights only 5 mins away) - got the 2 copies and returned.
I had taken a ticket from the machine when I first went in and my number was 110 (just after 9am) - I noted they were at 51 now at 9.45am I noted they were at 65 and the security guard gave me another ticket with 160 on it but I had "saved" my previous one. So I decided to try my luck with the lady manager again and meekly knocked on her door - went in and said in Turkish "my Turkish is not very good but I think I am complete now" - she took my little organised plastic folder - made sure my details were stapled together - then did the same for Gill's - then stapled the 2 sets together and said "complete" and put them in a little pile on the end of her desk.
I asked for a receipt (in Turkish) - she looked at me and said "yok" so I decided to take the chance - smiled and left - back home for coffee on the balcony after a little walk around the houses for 11am (we only live 10 mins walk from the office).
I also pointed out at the outset 2 things which she understood:
1. We are only 3 weeks into our first ever visa (a 5 year one) - fine she said and checked the dates.
2. We married in Fethiye 4 years ago so my copy of our certificate is in Turkish - fine she said after checking it.
So I (fingers crossed) - hope we have complied with the law and whether right or wrong I believe the Fethiye office wants to see you have a current valid visa with a year or mire left on it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
Well in that case you might be better off going back home and getting it all free.
Home? To the UK - where healthcare is the "poorest quality of care for people over 60 imaginable"? Are you mad..?
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Just checked the SGK information and it would appear that you only have to register at the end of your first year if you have a residency of more than one year. David Davies of the Aegean news states that he will process your application for a fee of 25tl to save anyone having to go through the madness of waiting for 4hrs or more at the SGK office in Fethiye If anyone needs clarification please ring David on 05306102860 or e-mail kurtulusescape@hotmail.com
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We have now spoken to the embassy in ANKARA and they are waiting on confirmation from the turkish government and say we all should hold off until late this afternoon or tomorrow morning to get the truth and ankara will email all local consulate offices
Taken from Fethiye expats on faceook this morning [?]
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
quote:
Originally posted by Sus
Well in that case you might be better off going back home and getting it all free.
Home? To the UK - where healthcare is the "poorest quality of care for people over 60 imaginable"? Are you mad..?
Well let just say I have never been certified as being so yet :)
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I do not blame the Turkish people. I put the blame at the door of our Diplomatic Corps, who, by the way pay UK NI stamps in Turkey and receive local medical care. I propose we start a Class Action against the UK Government on the grounds of Breach of Contract. I have a law firm in mind who will take the case. I will do the casework FREE. It costs the same to represent 2000 people as it does 1 person.
There will of course be a charge for the lawyers in the UK but I can keep them down. 40 years my husband paid UK stamps 37 years myself, and if the Brits in Whitehall think they can throw us to the wolves then they picked on the wrong girl. Please e-mail me at: erin.brok2012@yahoo.com
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Sorry Just read previous page and realised all this had been said but today there was only one english speaking young lady there who said it isn't her job as she knows nothing about it .So its still wait and see.
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That's why I have locked the other one - so we can have one discussion with everything in one place and easy to follow :)
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Look at UkinTurkey on facebook they have made a statement as in
UKinTurkey
Healthcare in Turkey for British Residents
We are aware of the confusion surrounding the new compulsory healthcare requirements for British nationals. It seems that regional offices are applying the rules differently, adding to the confusion.
We have contacted the Ministry of Health again to ask them to clarify the requirements of the scheme immediately so that British nationals can make informed decisions about the options open to them.
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Boy! I have read all the threads on this subject and it seems there is still so much confusion.
We are 3 months into our residency of 5 years. It seems that we won't pay until we have completed our 1st year.
What I am not sure about is whether to register now or wait until the end of our 1st year. People are saying on here that we don't need to, but we do run the risk of a hefty fine if it turns out that we do.
With that in mind we will register now. We need to get our marriage certificate translated and notorised (something I note was not needed to get our residency). Please could someone advise the idea of the cost and also is there any benefit of getting together with other people to ask for more that one at once? (ie bulk order!)
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Is this your first residency as I am on my second which I renewed in August 2011.
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quote:
Originally posted by tylerbabe
Is this your first residency as I am on my second which I renewed in August 2011.
It's our first residency. I note from a previous thread that it appears the authorities don't use/take notice of any previous residencies, only the current one.
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Tylerbabe -Good, I saw this posting too - from "UK in Turkey consulate" and the information is to the point and clear... Big Message to all WAIT - thats the message im getting.. I dont see the point in anyone panicking, running off registering or typically guessing answers based on rumours, newspaper reports, hearsay, word of mouth and scaremongering and generating a million and one questions from so many people. I could rant so much about this and other things us EX pats are put through via unfair treatment living here, howerver - so what we chose to live here.. just want the plain and honest process and system clarified..
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Hearsay and word of mouth have been pretty much all there has been so far though. Can you imagine a Brit living up in a mountain village miles away and miles from anywhere, no internet and no visitors - the first thing they would know officially is that they have an 800 lira fine to pay!
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Re: Entitlement to UK Medical Treatment for people who have emigrated.
Take two groups of workers who started work and paying National Insurance at the same time say 30 years ago.
All of the workers in Group A are still in the UK and are still paying NI. Some of the workers in Group B emigrated after 25 years.
Why should those workers in Group B benefit from the additional 5 years contributions that the workers in Group A have paid.
And the numbers in Group B would be infinitesimal compared to those in Group A.
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Hello everyone,
I have tried very hard to simply follow the debate on this subject, without getting involved, but needless to say eventually it has got the better of me!
Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their contributions, it is comforting to be able to come here for information,even if currently it is all still very uncertain.
There appears to be wide ranging opinions regarding this health care issue, some of which I agree with and some I dont, as I am sure we all do.
I would like to start by relating something interesting that I heard over the weekend. I was watching the Doha debate on BBC Entertainment, the debate came from Istanbul, and the subject of the debate was about Turkey itself. During the debate, the chairman was questioning one of the panel, and he said, I assume with some knowledge, that quote," of the working population of Turkey, less than 4% actually pay income tax" Now, if that is the case, I feel it would be reasonable to assume, that if more than 96% of the working population dont pay tax, then they wont be paying health insurance either?
We all know that historically it has been difficult for the Turkish Government to raise money via direct taxation, hence the indirect taxes on goods and services is so high. So, I would suggest that the Health care system, along with most things in Turkey, is funded in this way. Therefore the vast majority of Turkish citizens pay for Health care via this method, including us Ex Pats, and yet we are being forced to pay again.
Maybe this push to get everyone registered is in some way an attempt to get all the Turkish working population into a system, so they can no longer avoid paying direct taxes?
Moving onto the confusion about the requirements of registering/applying for health care. earlier in the debate, much mention was made of 12 months UNINTERRUPTED residency, and maybe the key to this may lie in the interpretation of "uninterrupted"?
For example, if someone not residing in Turkey, lets call them a tourist, has, despite the fact that they dont spend much time here in Turkey, opted to pay for a residents permit instead of going the visa route, for whatever reason, it is being suggested that as they have a residents permit for more than one year, they will have to pay the approx figure of £100 per month for Turkish Health care.
It has also been stated that you have to produce a certificate from the UK stating that you are no longer entitled to NHS treatment, this they will not be able to do, as they are in fact still entitled.
Now, the idea that what are essentially tourists coming to Turkey will have to pay for this Health care is quite simply ludicrous, even for Turkey!!
So, do we assume then that 1 year uninterrupted does NOT in fact apply simply to the length of the residents permit held? If so, what does uninterrupted mean? Could it mean that you have to have spent 1 year uninterrupted actually living in the country? If so, then that would negate the "tourist" issue, but then begs the question, if you do live in Turkey, but return to the UK for a few weeks each year, does that mean your not uninterrupted either??
I also find it very strange that we are being asked to prove we are no longer entitled to UK NHS treatment to qualify for the Turkish scheme? Why? Does anyone really think the Turkish Government could care less, as long as you are paying them the £100 per month?? I suspect there could well another motive at work here, driven by the UK government to identify Expats who are still claiming to be in the UK, an issue that I dont want to get into in this debate. Yes, there is no doubt that many Expats in Turkey, and other countries do try and appear to be living in the UK still, and argue that they are simply claiming what they have paid for all their working lives, rightly or wrongly. However, before we all get excited about that, I am sure there are many of you living in the UK with property in Turkey which is rented and for which no tax is being paid to either the Turkish or UK Governments, so lets not go there.
Quite simply, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the option of paying for Turkish health care, that suited everyone. It is not as though we are, or have been, getting something for nothing, and are now being asked to pay for it. Many of the Expats have never visited a Turkish Government hospital, and have always gone private, on the so called " Pay as you go" basis, and no, the private hospitals in Fethiye, such as the ESNAF are most certainly not kept going by the Expats, we would probably be outnumbered by 100/1 by Turkish patients, which perhaps tells you something about the Government hospitals, I dont know?
Yes that does mean the private hospitals are being subsidised in some way by the Government health scheme, as they get a discount, but I also suspect that when we go we pay more than a Turkish patient to reflect this, I may be wrong?
I do not actually know the answer to this one, but a foreign national, Turkish or otherwise, living in the UK, who is financially self sufficient, so not working, are they expect to pay National Insurance contributions?? I doubt it.
Also, it is my understanding that the money that is paid by the Turkish into this scheme, also entitles them to an old age pension, something that almost certainly we will not be entitled to.
Now, rightly or wrongly, there are people living in Turkey on small incomes, they moved here because they could attain a better standard of living due to the cheaper prices that prevailed at one time, not sure that is necessarily true today, but again lets leave that one for another time. The reality is that many people simply will not be able to afford this extra expense, especially those couples living together but not married. Many more, probably myself included, will have to trim the budget in other areas to pay this additional cost, so the net result will be that the local economy will lose out on the £100 a month I used to spend elsewhere. I am not trying to suggest that the world will stop spinning because of that, but there will be some sort of impact.
Finally, yes of course we were all pleased that the cost of residency came down, but lets be honest, with was a huge disparity between the cost of visa's and residency, and yes I understand there was the issue of reciprocal costs in the UK, but I see nothing reciprocal about the health care costs.
So, thats a few of my thoughts, which I am sure many will disagree with, which is fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Lets just hope that this situation is sorted out very soon, one way or the other, so we all know where we stand, and life can settled down again, until the next time, because there is always something!
Incidentally, anyone know how often they would fine you for not joining the scheme? Could be the cheaper option!LOL
Regards,
Gordon
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http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/kalkan-news/201328-universal-health-insurance-uhi-and-sgk-update-january-2012
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I went today with my sister who is here for 1 year then maybe next year she will return to live here. Turned up at 9am ish. Number 117 was our ticket waited for nearly 1 and half hours. The lads on the desk are taking a lot of comments from brits and turks poor souls they looked fed up. They did not know the answer to our query so referred us to they`re boss. We went to see her and as luck would have it a reporter for the Independant newspaper was in the office and translated for us. She must be finding out whats going on for her newspaper. The answer to my sisters query was she has to regiser if and when she comes back to Turkey as she will have held residency for 1 year and will renew her RP upon her return.
Just worked out this insurance is equal to 2 Effes per day for 2 people. Good value I think.
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Simple question....Why is everyone running to register for something they have no idea is about? No idea yes! You see some of the truth may have been said but we are all far from knowing the implications of registering into such a scheme. How will it benefit you? does it benefit you? is it compulsary? etc etc ...everyone has been bushwacked and scared into doing this due to a fine per person if you dont. This happened with the road tax. Why why why give this govermnent fuel for the fire? They will just have something else round the corner. How can they the turkish goverment force this fine? Maybe im thick or maybe they just can because they are the govermnet and dont give a damn about x pats (who give to this society)1 little bit. it beggars belief but im shocked at all the Brits living here like pawns of the governement and rushing to join up. im also equally shocked at the lack of information from our own government. Its a mess and as i said in the previous thread its comical but nobody is laughing. i for one will sit and wait and when and if there is an anouncement will make my choice. if it was the uk no way in this world would all those who have gone to gunlukbasi and registered have done so. Im angry cause its a great place but if i was a brit now thinking of retirement over here id never do it. nobody wants to say it but the mentality is stupid and everyones scared to say it. Stupid stupid stupid. Sometimes nothing makes sense to us not because of the cultural difference or language barriers but just mentality. They i believe should never and will never be part of europe. but sorry im just ranting but can i honestly say i feel sorry not only for people like myself who have to still work for a living and now maybe having to hand over very hard earned money to this lot but to the x pats who just survive and still want to stay here. many will leave yet the government must know that and do they care? Well thats another topic.
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And the famous quote from the newspapers today - whom have taken it upon themselves to help with the scaremongering, guessing games etc...
"However, in the absence of definitive advice from the British Embassy, or the Turkish authorities, we must stress that that what you see on KTLN is ONLY OUR VIEW"
I am surprised so many people are even going to the insurance offices asking for advice or joining this insurance just yet - the turks working there are just as confused, how can they give advice when the finalised law is not out. So, why would anyone hand over any money at all right now - even just to register - just to jump a potential quew, save a bit of time, or avoid a fine which is not imposed yet? and of course there are other people out there, who would greatly offer to complete the necessary forms/documents for us to also save time... at a cost of course!!!!!... Why not just wait, sit tight and see what comes out officially soon... then fight it!... cant fight anything before it is real.... x
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swimmer67 the finalised law is 5510 - available in English, covers all aspects of the Social insurance and UHI including that for foreigners, also level of fines etc - feel free to look it up.
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Hubble bubble.. Thanks - I have read that.. so is that as from Today - completeley finalised and confirmed with British consulate? so thats it all sorted?
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Well last time i checked the British weren't able to make Turkish law... and bear in mind Brits are not the only yabanci affected.
My understanding is that the Consulate have requested direction to local SSK offices so that they are all uniform in their requests and negotiating a coverall NHS letter.
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Went over today at 2.30pm and registered - straight forward no one queuing
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Well said Hoopsman, on everything you have posted.
I have posted on this also, and agree with you, yet
some replies appear to rebuff my thoughts, and some of them
from members who, according to their profiles, do not live in Turkey.
Having spoken to a few estate agents, (as I still want to move from fethiye) they seem to believe this insurance is bad news, as in... making it compulsory for ex pats, rather than letting us have a choice and paying when needed for treatment etc, as it has been working fine. A few friends I have also spoken to just today, will not (as yet) renew residency this year, but like me, they are lucky enough to be able to return the uk for a while till this fiasco is sorted.
Hope to catch up with you soon.
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" I have posted on this also, and agree with you, yet
some replies appear to rebuff my thoughts, and some of them
from members who, according to their profiles, do not live in Turkey".
Don't know if that was directed at me col but the fact that I do not live in Turkey certainly does not preclude me from have a view on the matter and if I disagree with your thoughts then I believe that I am perfectly entitled to rebuff them.
I posed what I thought was a reasonable question "do people think it is possible to run a health service with everyone contributing on a "pay as you go basis".
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Regarding the pay as you go basis for health service. Turkish people have insurance called Bakur which must be paid monthly which enables them to health service in Turkey. They still have to pay a small part of any bill. This also covers them as its connected to their pensions. Now! if they dont pay it effects them for pension and they pay full price at hospitals and chemists for prescriptions which are damn expensive here. So... The pay as you go basis is for x pats and my question is simple. Why dont we have the choice which has been mentioned above? If you are in uk and pay ni you are covered BUT many people also CHOOSE to have private insurance for whatever reason. If i break a leg tomorrow i would go to hospital get it sorted and pay my bill. Many people want it that way. Nobody i have met in Turkey want this new insurance because they dont even know what they get from it. How sad is that. What i think Colin is saying is when your on the ground and it effects you its terrible and worrying at the same time. We should have a choice and not forced to take something we may never get any benefit out of. its mad. The pay as you go basis is nothing to do with the Turkish National health Service....its private. Private Health Service.
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quote:
Originally posted by hubblebubble
swimmer67 the finalised law is 5510 - available in English, covers all aspects of the Social insurance and UHI including that for foreigners, also level of fines etc - feel free to look it up.
where can I look this up? only version I can find is well out of date.
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quote:
40 years my husband paid UK stamps 37 years myself, and if the Brits in Whitehall think they can throw us to the wolves then they picked on the wrong girl
National Insurance stamps have nothing to do with the National Health Service which is free at the point of source for those that qualify ie reside in UK and not absent for long periods so on what basis have you been thrown to the wolves?
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Here you go Crazybird, somebody kindly posted this on another forum, be warned it's 94 pages long if downloaded and saved as a PDF file.
http://www.sgk.gov.tr/wps/wcm/connect/1513fcb9-6954-42f1-9711-1708b08ff3a0/SOCIAL_INSURANCE_AND_UNIVERSAL_HEALTH_INSURNCE_LAW.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
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Chinook,The NHS is not free its paid for by the public in NI contributions, tax, VAT etc, no government has any money they spend OUR money how they see fit, even the non working public in the UK contribute in some way through indirect taxation. VAT.
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this statement has been posted on Facebook by Loz...
From Kym Ciftci regarding the Health insurance in Turkey Please read and pass on. For all of you in Didim - Here is latest post on the subject from the Embassy Warden here:
After a conversation tonight with the Consulate General in Izmir he has confirmed that the Ministry of Health has advised that they will be issuing a letter to all Resident Permit holders. The policy will then have to be tak...en out within one month of receiving the registered letter. As it stands William from the Embassy will not be coming to Didim this week as the British Embassy are trying to make arrangements to meet with the Ministry of Health to discuss. Once further details are known I will let you know and William will then be able to come to Didim with the correct information. For those that are only travelling to Turkey on a residents permit but for a few weeks at a time then they can take a letter from there family NHS doctor to say that they are still registered with a docor in the Uk take this to the SGK office and they will therefore be exempt. Any questions please let me know.
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In reply to just a couple of things Hoops Man has said. We (me and my husband) have had this health insurance for a year and when it works its great. It gives peace of mind too. And the reason people are "running to register for something they have no idea is about" is the 886TL fine they could be clobbered with if they don't toe the line. Yes, things might change in the next few days and there turns out to be a delay or something, but would you ignore the threat of the fine and do nothing????
PS, there you go, Tinx's post (That I hadn't spotted :-\) means there will be an inevitable delay while people wait for the letters.
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BM06 - Chinook didn't say the NHS was free. He/she said it was free at the point of source for those that qualify
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
BM06 - Chinook didn't say the NHS was free. He/she said it was free at the point of source for those that qualify
Exactly H those that qualify at the point of source have paid for it in some way ;)I am sure he said it was free though ;) :)
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quote:
Chinook,The NHS is not free its paid for by the public in NI contributions
Thanks Highlander; its he by the way. All I was trying to do was to dispel this myth that many people believe that they are entitled to treatment specifically because they paid NI contributions during their working life when nothing is further from the truth.If you paid nothing in NI contributions taxes etc you would be still entitled to free treatment if you qualify, essentially through residence in the UK.
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I really do not want to hijack this topic but you may well be entitled to treatment but its not free, if you have not paid anything into the pot? then someone has, its not FREE!
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Been wading through the wording of the legislation and maybe this may be of intrest if it is also applied to foreigners- it would appear that Turks who are out of the country for 6 months continuously are off the health scheme. Maybe its possible such a condition may apply to part time foreigners- just a thought.
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BM06 I am referring to recipient not to funder and my point was not a hijack but a response to someone who was trying to enjoin people in sueing the British Government for letting them down over the introduction of the new Health Insurance requirements on the basis that they had paid NI stamps for many years.
Below is an extract from the NHS website
quote:
If you move to England permanently, or return to live in England permanently, you're entitled to free NHS hospital treatment.
What we should be asking the British Government is why they have not set up a reciprical agreement since Turkish people who have permission from the Home Office to live in the UK are entitled to this free NHS hospital treatment.
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So get a letter from your UK doctor and you can skip this..?
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"BM06 I am refering to the recipient not to FUNDER", well we agree on that then.
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quote:
"BM06 I am refering to the recipient not to FUNDER", well we agree on that then
I don't think we ever disagreed you misread what I had said - back to topic
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The insurance is not just aimed at ALL Foreigners (not just Brits) living here it is also aimed at the Turkish people. They get the fine as well if they do not register. As I understand it the fine is already in place and comes off when you register. At the moment you are just registering no payment is asked for. Maybe when they get everyone on the system (a huge project) then payments will be asked for.
I know people who live here full time and still claim they`re medical treatment from NHS. They make hospital appointments and then return to the UK for them and when asked have you been out of the country for more than 3 months they just say No. No checks are made. Good luck if they get away with it. I personally would feel guilty as I came here of my own free will and knew I was not entitled to NHS treatment.These people cannot afford the SSK here but as I have said before what if they have a major accident, heart attack ect and cannot travel back to Uk for treatment. They have no insurance and no money or property to pay for treatment.Will they be treated here free of charge I think not.
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This message is doing the round via emails: -
IMPORTANT:
There will be a meeting and petition signing at Cafe Soul on Wed and Fri of this week, the signed petition will be taken to the Mayor of Fethiye, it will voice our concerns and complaints against the new health insurance, bring your friends Turkish or English, the more the better, lets try to make our voices heard for a change.
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I find it funny the way some expats seem to think that this whole issue revolves around UK citizens.
There happen to be other nationalities living in Turkey and Fethiye but apparently they're not welcome to sign the petition :P
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Pi$$up - brewery
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If I was Turkey I would say well people, if you do not like the rules or what we do in our country go back to your own country and live.
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Who is organising the petition and signing at cafe sol?
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quote:
Originally posted by Denise40
This message is doing the round via emails: -
IMPORTANT:
There will be a meeting and petition signing at Cafe Soul on Wed and Fri of this week, the signed petition will be taken to the Mayor of Fethiye, it will voice our concerns and complaints against the new health insurance, bring your friends Turkish or English, the more the better, lets try to make our voices heard for a change.
Please don't forget your t-shirts and banners they will really know you mean business then, get in touch with The Sun newspaper and tell them how you are being treated in Turkey and ask them to send a journalist over, better still contact Skynews to come over as well, while your at it cancel your bank accounts and sell your houses just to let them know you really mean business and tell them if they go ahead with this scheme you will all be leaving.
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But how would Turkey survive without all the money that foreign residents are spending here :P
After all, we may be talking about (rough estimate) 70.000 people in a country of 70+ million :D
It's time to start seeing things in perspective.
Turkey doesn't need "us".
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you got a beef about something Sus ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
But how would Turkey survive without all the money that foreign residents are spending here :P
After all, we may be talking about (rough estimate) 70.000 people in a country of 70+ million :D
It's time to start seeing things in perspective.
Turkey doesn't need "us".
If they carry on like this we may not have a choice if they need us they will tell the lot of us to sod off.
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A petition to be taken to the mayor in Fethiye - I'm sure the mayor couldn't care less, what's all this got to do with him?!! Take it to the man at Mete Market for equal effect :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
Please don't forget your t-shirts and banners they will really know you mean business then, get in touch with The Sun newspaper and tell them how you are being treated in Turkey and ask them to send a journalist over, better still contact Skynews to come over as well, while your at it cancel your bank accounts and sell your houses just to let them know you really mean business and tell them if they go ahead with this scheme you will all be leaving.
I've just read on FB that somebody has contacted Skynews to inform them about this plight 8)
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quote:
Originally posted by desmartinson
you got a beef about something Sus ;)
Free Speach that is all I am allowed to have my view on things as well as you or anyone else.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
A petition to be taken to the mayor in Fethiye - I'm sure the mayor couldn't care less, what's all this got to do with him?!! Take it to the man at Mete Market for equal effect :)
:D:D:D
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quote:
Originally posted by quackers
I know people who live here full time and still claim they`re medical treatment from NHS. They make hospital appointments and then return to the UK for them and when asked have you been out of the country for more than 3 months they just say No.
Wonderful[:(!]
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Sus - irony is very difficult to get across on here but you're doing a pretty good job.
Will there be a petition to sign asking for the previous residency charges to be reinstated.
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Dear Sky News
I am living in someone else's country and therefore not paying National Insurance contributions in the UK anymore. Now they want me to pay for medical cover over here - like they are asking the locals to as well. But I am British, why should I. What a liberty. Can you come and film us, a change is as good as a rest so we're going to Cafe Sol for a change of scene from the bar we usually go to every day. Later we'll deliver a petition to the man who sorts out all the block paving here.
I moved here for a stress free life, with all this going on it's little wonder I'm not in hospital.
Regards
Johnnie Expat
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:D
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To attempt get back on topic...I can't find a reply to Hotlips's question asking how much it costs to get a marriage certificate translated and notarised. Does anyone know please?
Many thanks.
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:) :).. that was at scunners post.
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re scunners post...
:Dinnit
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quote:
Originally posted by janmack
To attempt get back on topic...I can't find a reply to Hotlips's question asking how much it costs to get a marriage certificate translated and notarised. Does anyone know please?
Many thanks.
I saw in a previous post 64 TL ish and double for a poor Scottish chap as his certificate was different so clearly they couldn't use the usual template!
Ps I believe they are offering a Full English Breakfast and an Efes for only 7 TL if you sign the petition and consume the Efes before 9am ?
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Further to my previous post. At 06.00 Turkish time today a Fax was sent to 10 Downing Street for the urgent attention of David Cameron. I have made it clear the situation we are dealing with here, and have asked for the problem to be actioned at the highest level in London and Ankara. I will post back on the Forum when I have received a reply.
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Thanks for that info Ian.
Think I'll pass on the full English and efes though ;)
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did you send Dave a copy of Johnnie Expats letter too?
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:D:D:D:D
This is for Highlander, Scunner, Ian and a few others posts I have just read.
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:D:D:D
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Koray Atak charges 30TL to translate the certificates and then he took it to the notary for us and they charged 60TL.
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How impossible is it to deal with an Englishman (Briton) abroad. To me, the irony of this story is that British expats are now attempting to stage <cack handed> protests about having to pay for something in a foreign country that welcomed them to set up home. BUT...the debate actually started because British people were finding it frustrating because it appeared they felt they were being EXCLUDED from joining!!!
You can please some of the people some of the time but many of the British expats in Calis NEVER ;) God help anyone who has moved to a foreign land where a £20 a week change in local costs can't be absorbed into the budget of life and causes you to "threaten" to leave and take your money with you!!! If you can't pay £20 a week how do you seriously propose to pay the £8,000 or more it will cost - when your age increases and health fades??? To scoop the cancer out of your insides or to fix your broken legs when that mad driver leaves the road and smashes into you
That is one scary place to be - I'd be more worried about living like that than any healthcare petition protest. There are my honest feelings on the matter and if you don't like them - TOUGH!
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quote:
Originally posted by kayakebab
did you send Dave a copy of Johnnie Expats letter too?
The more you send to our Dave the better, thought he was having too much of a busy time in the UK trying to get a top put on these benefit claims of £26,000 being handed out, but no doubt he will drop everything and fly over to Turkey and of course
Scunner completely agree with you on your post, but must say I have never laughed so much for a long time, never heard anything like this before.
Would have been better to address the fax to William Hague he is the one who runs the Foreign Office, but then again he is busy sorting out the people who have got council houses and renting them out while they are living aboard.
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If I were to protest, my main beef would be the lack of organisation and proper notice. I would also like to know what wording would be on this petition.
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Oh, one final thought (for now) - If you can't afford that £8,000 in the event of a major health scare, you really shouldn't be living there. If you can afford £8,000 in the event of a major health scare, the interest on that will cover four fifths of what this will cost you each year. That's everyone sorted? Good.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo
If I were to protest, my main beef would be the lack of organisation and proper notice. I would also like to know what wording would be on this petition.
Well no arguments there from me. As with the 90 - 90/180 - 90 - 90/180 visitor visa episode, it is difficult to see how this could have been handled worse.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sus
quote:
Originally posted by Denise40
This message is doing the round via emails: -
IMPORTANT:
There will be a meeting and petition signing at Cafe Soul on Wed and Fri of this week, the signed petition will be taken to the Mayor of Fethiye, it will voice our concerns and complaints against the new health insurance, bring your friends Turkish or English, the more the better, lets try to make our voices heard for a change.
Please don't forget your t-shirts and banners they will really know you mean business then, get in touch with The Sun newspaper and tell them how you are being treated in Turkey and ask them to send a journalist over, better still contact Skynews to come over as well, while your at it cancel your bank accounts and sell your houses just to let them know you really mean business and tell them if they go ahead with this scheme you will all be leaving.
Don't shoot the messenger, I was asked to post this for information for those who are interested, apparently the Cafe in in Calis along the front, and everyone is entitled to their opinions!
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quote:
Originally posted by crazybird
Further to my previous post. At 06.00 Turkish time today a Fax was sent to 10 Downing Street for the urgent attention of David Cameron. I have made it clear the situation we are dealing with here, and have asked for the problem to be actioned at the highest level in London and Ankara. I will post back on the Forum when I have received a reply.
No offence Crazybird but you are living on a different planet to most of us. You actually truly appear to believe you will be getting replies! Good job you marked it for Dave's "urgent attention" because they don't interrupt his busy day for faxes only marked for his attention. You will have made Whitehall sit up to attention as that fax whirred in.
Good idea to ask for this matter to be dealt with at the highest level. Without that they might have dealt with it at just quite a high level, and that wouldn't be any good at all.
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"Mr Obama...you better take this...we have a "crazy bird" calling on Skype..."
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Can I ask a silly question....
Why a fax - why not a fax and an email.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Can I ask a silly question....
Why a fax - why not a fax and an email.
Because Dave gets too many emails and his staff state they can not guarantee reading all of them or replying to them and when they do it can take weeks to do so.
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Yes, you can't bounce a fax
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You have made our day Keith. Havent laughed so much for ages. Sorry it this offends anyone else but I agree with everything you have written. What makes this problem worse however is that we just do not know what we are getting for our money. I have asked 3 Turkish people this week who have had to sign up for it what they get and they dont know either. We will be signing up for it like most people I know because of the scaremongering 836TL. We looked into private healthcare when we first came here but it was a prohibitive price for Barrie so didnt follow it up. It remains to be seen whether we will be allowed to sign up for SGK in which case I will have to pay the 216tl? for myself. As I drive maybe a sensible option.
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Get a petition together and give it to the Mayor of Fethiye and what is he to do with it?
I know declare Fethiye is no longer part of Turkey but is a British dominion and all health treatment will be free. British passports will be available to all people living in Fethiye.
Sue the British government for neglecting expats. Who and Where are you going to sue?
If you can afford the legal costs you can afford to pay for health insurance.
Get the Turkish government to change the law so that you pay if you use the system. If you do not then let the Turk with less money than most of the expats foot the bill for the upkeep of the health system.
From the posts on here it will take 6 months just to agree what you are up in arms about.
We have the earlier post saying that it has nothing to do with those who do not live in Turkey. It does because it is those people that live and pay taxes in the UK that will foot the bill for it.
Refuse to pay taxes, Oh cant do that as you do not pay taxes in the UK.
When signing the petition will those who illegally return to the UK and use the NHS own up to doing it. Again, it is the people who live in the UK are picking up the tab for this illegal treatment.
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I am struggling to believe so many expats apparentlly see the world through the bottom of their beer bottle and believe it revolves solely around them and their paltry bank balances and miniscule input to the economy.
Surely if you choose to live in Turkey - it is up to you to stay current on news which might affect you, law changes etc . Alternatively you can choose to see the world very parochially but don't flippin whinge when it comes knocking at your door over an issue that is helping bring Turkey into the 21st century.
Think of all those babies in need of life saving treatment who wont now get turned away from hospitals as the family cant pay when you forego that Efes to pay your UHI.
The Consulate could and should have done more to clarify in advance - in their defence getting definitive and unconflicting info from Turkish governmental departments is far from straightforward and they have been working on it a lot longer than the US, Canadian, Australian and NZ consulates who all reckon they only found out yesterday sigh.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ovacikpeedoff
Get a petition together and give it to the Mayor of Fethiye and what is he to do with it?
It depends how stiff the paper is for what he can use it for. :)
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SCHEME SIGN UP DATE EXTENDED- VOICES NEWSPAPER
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quote:
Originally posted by Ovacikpeedoff
Get a petition together and give it to the Mayor of Fethiye and what is he to do with it?
(http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/basketball.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
SCHEME SUSPENDED- VOICES NEWSPAPER
Quelle surprise!
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Birtish Embassy website updated
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/
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FOREIGNERS living in Turkey are to be given at least one month's grace over the controversial imposition of the mandatory health insurance, it has emerged.
Following meetings between British Embassy and SGK (Sosyal GUvenlik Kurumu) yesterday (MON), it seems that the January 31 deadline - by which all expats had to be signed up by or face a 886TKL fine - has now been suspended at least for the time being.
In its place, SGK officials say they will send out letters to all expats and the policy will have to be taken out within one month of receiving the letter.
A statement from a British Embassy Consul warden to Voices via Facebook last night said: "After a conversation tonight with the Consulate General in Izmir, William Buttigieg has confirmed that the Ministry of Health has advised that they will be issuing a letter to all Resident Permit holders.
"The policy will then have to be taken out within one month of receiving the registered letter.
"For those that are only travelling to Turkey on a resident's permit but for a few weeks at a time then they can take a letter from their family NHS doctor to say that they are still registered with a doctor in the UK - take this to the SGK office and they will therefore be exempt."
Calls by Didim British expats for a meeting with William Buttigieg has been put off for the time being. The statement added: "As it stands WilliamButtigieg will not be coming to Didim this week as the British Embassy are trying to make arrangements to meet with the Ministry of Health to discuss.
"Once further details are known I will let you know and William will then be able to come to Didim with the correct information."
In a separate advisory note from the warden earlier yesterday, those expats who are travelling abroad this winter - for example back in the UK, in India or South East Asia and were in fear of missing the Jan 31 deadline - they were advised to keep proof of their flight tickets to avoid the fine. However that threat has receded with the new advice about issuing letters.
In a further twist, expats on forums were claiming that if you are retired - or it declares Emekli on your residency permit - this is usually found on the left hand page opposite your picture under the category profession - you were exempt. This still remains in doubt.
Equally for those with private health insurance, they are still in doubt as to whether they need to apply or are exempt.
For example, a statement issued by one private health insurer in Didim categorically stated that to one of its clients: "If you are retired (this has to be written on your Residency Card as Emekli down below your photo) or have an health insurance in UK you will (be) exempt for SGK Goverment Health Insurance. You don't need to apply."
If this is correct, then that would surely opt out all but a few expats as they declare they are retired any way!
The British Embassy website had yet to be updated beyond a holding statement on Monday stating: "We are aware of the confusion surrounding the new compulsory healthcare requirements for British nationals. It seems that regional offices are applying the rules differently, adding to the confusion.
"We have contacted the Ministry of Health again to ask them to clarify the requirements of the scheme immediately so that British nationals can make informed decisions about the options open to them. The Ambassador has also raised this with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs."
For those in Didim, kusdasi and Akbuk and other areas of Aydin Province, wanting to join the scheme voluntarily, they will have to apply to either the Soke office - Konak Mah. Yildirim Sokak No.22 Soke - 0256 512 1251 email address: sokesgm@sgk.gov.tr;
or Aydin: Aydin Sosyal Guvenlik Il Mudurlugu Ramazanpasa Mahallesi Hukumet Bulvari No:62, (0256) 213 60 55 or email: aydinsgim@sgk.gov.tr
Visit www.sgk.gov.tr for further information.
Direct Link: http://voicesnewspaper.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5191
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What do you get for your money??? We get greatly reduced rates at Esnaf for seeing doctors,blood tests, scans,xrays,operations ect.Free medication on prescription from doctors. Reduced rates at Kartel for eye tests and any operation. Reduced rate on lenses at opticians, Reduced rates at Dentist.
I agree hubblebubble that our poor turksih neighbours now have a way of getting the much needed medical help they require free as before they had to suffer or hope the family would help pay for them. I know of a case in Yaniklar where they came round the houses asking for donations to help pay for medicine for a sick child.Not just the ex pats were asked all of the people living in the area. They only wated a couple of lire from each household and all that could gave.
I also remember a few years ago in Caliş a gentleman being in Devlet hospital in urgent need of a heart op. He had no money and no property. They asked his family in the UK to pay and they said no they had no money so someone was going to get up a collection to pay for this expensive op. He died before they started. I would hate that to happen to me and mine.
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From Facebook
"The petition signing will be at Nil Bar Calis front tomorrow between 11am and 12-30 pm, then onto Cafe Pazar 1pm to 2-30pm and PJ's bar 3pm to 4-30 pm. On Friday we will be at Kismet/boys bar in Fethiye 12 midday to 3 pm"
How fitting to have a pub crawl health in Turkey petition signing in 3 bars. Having it at 3 different places 10 minutes walk apart makes sense. People living near PJs won't need to walk literally around the corner to the one at Cafe Pazar!!! PMSL you couldn't write it. Like the petition, which hasn't even been started yet let alone written.
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I asked what the petition is about, apparently one Turkish man is only paying 100tl a month, and its not fair, and some nationalities aren't going to have to pay it at all.
I shan't be joining the pub crawl, I mean signing.
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Which nationalities don't have to pay at all? Where did their research on this come from?
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"British nationals who have lived in Turkey for one year will receive a letter about joining the scheme and then have one month to register. "
Ooooo - goodie ... or will it be like the phone and ADSL bill arrive way past the payment date if at all?
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you know when my kids used to say 'its not fair' I used to point out lifes not fair - get used to it!!
If you have food in your belly, more in the cupboard, a roof over your head, an education and access to potable water and quality healthcare - you are priviledged in this world I feel.
Under any health scheme, be it private or public, some will subsidise others.
Be grateful you have a choice where to live and how to live.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Which nationalities don't have to pay at all? Where did their research on this come from?
They heard it from a man in a pub who heard it from a man in Nil Bar who got it from a lady in Cafe Pazar who saw it on the telly in PJ's
Last seen heading towards Kismet to tell his mates
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Thanks Kieth for the post from Facebook.
Without it I would have been in the wrong Bar at the wrong time.:P
I will revise my petition signing / Pub crawl itinerary forthwith.:D
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I read Linda Kayekebabs post of the Fethiye ex.pats forum. It was perfect!!
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Hubblebubble
I echo similar sentiments
Maybe some people need to step back a little - take some quality time time to digest your script (or ay least debate same during their pub crawl)
quote:
Originally posted by hubblebubble
you know when my kids used to say 'its not fair' I used to point out lifes not fair - get used to it!!
If you have food in your belly, more in the cupboard, a roof over your head, an education and access to potable water and quality healthcare - you are priviledged in this world I feel.
Under any health scheme, be it private or public, some will subsidise others.
Be grateful you have a choice where to live and how to live.
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Fully agree Hubblebubble
I passed by the SGK office this morning, it was packed to the rafters with about 30 - 40 on the pavement outside, I did hear that at one point there were 500 in the office! I was on my way to the Aegean Independant office, where 3 of us got the forms filled in in around 30 minutes - worth every kurus of the 25tl fee in my book
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Here is another question .After you have signed up for the insurance when do you start paying?
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awwww, thank you Anne!
quote:
Originally posted by mercury
I read Linda Kayekebabs post of the Fethiye ex.pats forum. It was perfect!!
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A couple of things people need to think about.
If you are retired you might be exempt. What does that mean and where does someone who is retired stand if healthcare is required?
Will retired people have to pay the full amount for treatment?
Where is the money that some retired people have paid into the system already?
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Turkish nationals are means tested paying between nothing Yesil Kart holders, 35tl. 100tl or 213tl depending on income. All Turkish children under 18 receive free health care - those over 18 in full time education also receive free health care up until they are 25. Turkish people are covered for pre exisiting medical conditions.
Turkish people who are legally resident in the UK are allowed to work and to use the NHS. They are not asked to pay for treatment if they have a pre exisiting condition and their NI and income tax are based on their earnings. We are not permitted to work yet are having our income automatically assessed at 2 x the Turkish minimum wage when we can't earn any money. Pre exisiting conditions are not covered.
For people that have good incomes and can afford 213 lira a month great but I can't and am sad that after wanting to live in Turkey for such a long time that I am now having to seriously condider whether I can afford to stay here. If it was means tested for everyone I would be losing a lot less sleep. Meanwhile there are a lot of people in the same situation. I think we all agree that it is good cover but that doesn't mean we can magic up the money every month.
Maybe a bar isn't the best place to sign a petition but like it or not most people know where these bars are - if people want to sign the petitions then they know exactly where they will be and when.
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I have been so taken aback by some of the nasty and smug comments made on this topic. We all have different opinions and we are all entitled to our opinions. I for one disagree with about 60% of the comments on this topic but no way would i be as rude to the posters as some people have been - keep your unpleasant comments to your selves, they are unnecessary.
For a variety of reasons I do not agree with being forced to pay the SGK (as i have said previously) - that is my opinion and i am entitled to it. I made a decision to cancel my private health insurance 2 years ago and pay for treatment as and when i needed it (which has been once). It is a choice i do not regret and one i wish i could continue with. Instead i am being forced into this stupid health system which i do not like, do not want and do not agree with. I left England about 20 years ago - i never go back, i have never claimed any benefits or any NHS treatment, and in the previous countries where i lived i was not forced to pay into a system that i did not want.
These are my feelings and my opinions and are therefore right for me.
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quote:
Originally posted by kizkucuk
Maybe a bar isn't the best place to sign a petition but like it or not most people know where these bars are - if people want to sign the petitions then they know exactly where they will be and when.
Like it or not people know where they are? I neither like that nor dislike that! I would hope that people would be able to find one bar in the place they live full time and not need three to choose from. Why do you think signing a petition will help - you don't even know what it says. As I said ealier, if £20 a week is make or break then I am sorry, you are living a very precarious life a long way from "home". Why is this £20 a week the breaker for everyone who is complaining? Your household bills must have gone up £20 and not a peep out of anyone. Interest on local savings must have come down by £20 a week for many in recent times - nobody was signing petitions and heading home then?
This isn't lost savings or a gas bottle going up, this is something that could one day keep you alive - nobody is going to stick their professional hand into your innards for free you know.
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Just out of curiosity, if an expat takes out citizenship do they then qualify to be means tested? or pay less?
(http://www.londonpatriot.org/wp-content/uploads/cat-and-pigeons.jpg)
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kizkucuk i fully understand your concerns.
- as stated earlier there are several issues I feel the British Ambassador to Turkey could usefully address in relation to the apparent disparities and also in terms of reciprocity agreements. If you are going to petition for anything, i would suggest a simple request that Uk citizens would feel better served by their embassy if these matters could be negotiated with the turkish government, might be rather more likely to help those in similar circumstances to yourself.
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If you can't afford 213 TL per month for insurance, how do you plan to pay for medical costs when an emergency happens?
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Yes Loz, you are correct as things currently stand!
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Or pay for air fare if you plan to go back to the UK where they probably know you are no longer eligible anyway? My medication costs more than that per month and SGK pays it all because it is chronic. You won't find me complaining about the cost! Only the d*** computer mess up. ;-)))
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I may or may not sign the petition as has been pointed out we do not know what is in it.
I have already emailed both the Turkish and British Embassy regarding reciprocal agreements.
All that I am asking is that British citizens living legally in Turkey receive the same as Turkish citizens living legally in the UK.
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well, here's the online version....
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sgk-health-insurance-turkey/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=button
sorry, I'm not being a total snob here, but spelling, paragraph spacing, grammar and punctuation should have been checked and double checked for something that's supposed to make officials take notice. I'm not saying this to be pedantic but it should be of a certain standard to be taken seriously. I lost interest half way through and have a sneaky feeling the receiver will too.
I feel too that the last sentence isn't going to make it look as though they're people who feel at one with the nation they've chosen to live with :
''we see it as another way to make money from people who haven't got it contrary to Turkish belief''
Although I'm not a big fan of the petitioning idea I am happy to offer my services if they want a proof reader for anything else.
And again, honestly I'm not being difficult over this, but they will fail before they start if it's not done properly.
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quote:
Originally posted by joannasal
I have been so taken aback by some of the nasty and smug comments made on this topic. We all have different opinions and we are all entitled to our opinions. I for one disagree with about 60% of the comments on this topic but no way would i be as rude to the posters as some people have been - keep your unpleasant comments to your selves, they are unnecessary.
For a variety of reasons I do not agree with being forced to pay the SGK (as i have said previously) - that is my opinion and i am entitled to it. I made a decision to cancel my private health insurance 2 years ago and pay for treatment as and when i needed it (which has been once). It is a choice i do not regret and one i wish i could continue with.
These are my feelings and my opinions and are therefore right for me.
Well said!
I am having to read a lot of replies that really bear no relevance to the topic. There has been so much confusion trying to find out how,why,what etc that have lead to people coming on here to get some helpful information.
Thank you to all the members that have directed me to the relevant Embassy website update and other useful information, it has helped enormously and I appreciate your help.
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My God [:o]
Since when did SGK become a law?! It was the social security institution last time I looked!!!
How embarrassing is that document :-\
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"sorry, I'm not being a total snob here, but spelling, paragraph spacing, grammar and punctuation should have been checked and double checked for something that's supposed to make officials take notice. I'm not saying this to be pedantic but it should be of a certain standard to be taken seriously"
Couldn't agree more !!!!!!!!!
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More conflicting info - just looked at Fethiye expats (health forum)and some one posted on there they had spoken with Embassy in Ankara and (like Voices newspaper) were told you do not have to register before 31st Jan. I decided to call (number was posted: 0312 4553344) - spoke to a very nice lady there who said she knew nothing about this, was not able to advise me not to go before 31st and that 'sometime' this week the embassy website will be updated, after talks with Turkish government are completed.
I will listen to the lady at the embassy i think rather than the newspaper as (although i do not agree with this health ins) i do not want to risk getting slapped with a big fine.
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quote:
Originally posted by kizkucuk
All that I am asking is that British citizens living legally in Turkey receive the same as Turkish citizens living legally in the UK.
No country has the Health system of the UK, so how can you ask for reciprocal treatment. Turkey does not operate NHS.
In the UK you pay NIC, do we complain? so what the hell is the difference to paying 213Tl?
When we lived there I paid for our insurance, somewhere between 700 and 900Tl per year, we never had need to use it but it was there.
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"they don't seem to realise how many people are on pensions here so are on a low income and tight budget already"
"STOP THIS LAW NOW OR LOSE MANY FOREIGNERS"
Percentage of foreign nationals (all nationalities) living in Turkey = 0.10%
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"STOP THIS LAW NOW OR LOSE PEOPLE THAT BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION DON'T SPEND MUCH"
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quote:
Originally posted by loz
quote:
Originally posted by kizkucuk
All that I am asking is that British citizens living legally in Turkey receive the same as Turkish citizens living legally in the UK.
No country has the Health system of the UK, so how can you ask for reciprocal treatment. Turkey does not operate NHS.
In the UK you pay NIC, do we complain? so what the hell is the difference to paying 213Tl?
When we lived there I paid for our insurance, somewhere between 700 and 900Tl per year, we never had need to use it but it was there.
But one thing you have to remember in Turkey it will be their own money they are paying it with, in the UK it may have been the tax payers money paying their NI
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DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
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Loz I didn't complain about NI and tax as I was working and my contribution was based on what my income was. The 213tl is based on an assumption that I have over 1500 tl a month income.
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People are going on about the cost and UK expats paying the highest level. There is a means test that has already been applied when you applied for your residency, you have to prove a certain level of income per year to be granted residency, which is why everybody has been put on the highest level.
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...and therein lies the honeytrap
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Besides, how would they ever be able to test the income of foreigners?
Just rely on foreigners to be honest enough to show all of their income :P
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchie
Besides, how would they ever be able to test the income of foreigners?
Just rely on foreigners to be honest enough to show all of their income :P
When we applied for residency we had to show a bank statement, confirming that you could support yourself/yourselves.
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Yes but how could you prove you couldn't afford it is behind the question I think...
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quote:
In the UK you pay NIC, do we complain? so what the hell is the difference to paying 213Tl?
When we lived there I paid for our insurance, somewhere between 700 and 900Tl per year, we never had need to use it but it was there.
How many times does it have to be said the payment of NIC has NOTHING to do with the NHS . The NHS is free to recipients if you qualify. If a Turkish person is given permision by the Home office to reside in the UK they are entitled to the free services of the NHS. As I have said previously we should be lobbying the British Government to negotiate a reciprical agreement with Turkey as other countries have.
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Sure, you needed to show a minimum income.
If the SGK fee will be means tested, then the maximum income counts.
Meaning that they will have to rely on the honesty of the foreigners ha ha.
By the way, when I applied for my visa ages ago, I only had to show 100 euros per month.
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Can I put forward a really proposterous observation.
What a splendid Forum this is for people who are concerned about/have strong views on this subject.
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quote:
Originally posted by kayakebab
well, here's the online version....
www.ipetitions.com/petition/sgk-health-insurance-turkey/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=button
Well obviously the first hour will be busy - bringing a chaotic clamour of people who have been waiting for it to open so they can add their name, and an hour has now just passed - and in that short time an incredibly impressive 18 people have signed the petition already!!!
Watch out Turkey!!
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and not even the authors.
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A reciprocal health agreement is designed to cover you on a trip to a country and not designed for those permanently resident in another country.The Dept of Health website makes it very clear if you reside in another country the NHS is not available and you should make adequate provision for healthcare. I do not know how they can make it any clearer.
Turkey is no different to anyother country. If yougo to live in ireland or France or any other country the same rules apply. Why should a couple of thousand brits in fethiye be treated differently to millions living in other countries.
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From the health insurance in Turkey Site :
''The British Embassy have made an announcment today confiming that they are still in talks with the Turkish government but they have realised at last that they have not given enough notice so panic over, they have also said that so long as you have proof of insurance from UK you don't have to pay here, they are still thrashing out all the details but it looks like this has been a false alarm. I suggest that anyone without health insurance goes to town and gets quotes from private companies, you will find this much cheaper and post the results on here to help others choose to. Any more developments will be posted as they appear. The petition is also cancelled for the time being. Thankyou for your support and input all.''
I thought people were complaining that if they have private insurance they still had to register for SGK - this post is suggesting its all been a false alarm and we should go and get private cover. Surely its only delayed until we get our letters?
Oh and the petition is cancelled.
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From the British Embassy in Ankara;
Update:
As we posted yesterday, we are aware of the confusion and concern in the community over the new healthcare requirements for certain foreign nationals that the Turkish authorities have just announced; and over the additional confusion caused by the way in which regional offices are apparently applying the new policy inconsistently.
As those who have lived in Turkey for some time will recall, we were initially told in 2010 that a compulsory healthcare scheme was going to be launched. We were later informed that implementation had been delayed until December 2012; and then that the scheme was likely to be cancelled.
In the meantime, some British nationals wanted to join the scheme and were able to do so. However, late last year some people experienced problems relating to their pension/NHS status. They asked us to assist, which we did.
We were not officially notified by the Turkish authorities that the scheme was being reintroduced this year and that it would be compulsory for all long-term residents.
The Turkish authorities have now announced that the scheme became effective on 1/1/12. In the document passed to us, it appears that once a non-Turkish resident completes one year of residence in Turkey, they must apply to join the scheme. It applies to all nationalities not covered by the health scheme of their own country. British nationals who have lived in Turkey for one year will receive a letter about joining the scheme and then have one month to register.
We are in touch with the Turkish authorities, including through the Ambassador, to register our concern; to discuss the implications of this measure if it is implemented as announced; and to protect the interests of our community.
We would like to thank those of you who have taken the trouble to write to us. We will keep you informed of developments through our website and facebook pages.
Healthcare in Turkey for British Residents
We are aware of the confusion surrounding the new compulsory healthcare requirements for British nationals. It seems that regional offices are applying the rules differently, adding to the confusion.
We have contacted the Ministry of Health again to ask them to clarify the requirements of the scheme immediately so that British nationals can make informed decisions about the options open to them. The Ambassador has also raised this with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
...and therein lies the honeytrap
Exactly,they get us every time
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I think a lot of people are misreading the info and are saying having UK private insurance excludes them from the SGK scheme. What it reads is:-
quote:
It applies to all nationalities not covered by the health scheme of their own country.
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So,what do I do now?Register or not?Dont want to incur the fine.Am not covered by the NHS and have no private medical insurance over here.Have always paid up front for my medical requirements.
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So I think this means : As I only got my residency two weeks ago, I don't apply until I get a letter (or not)next December.
Right ??
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quote:
A reciprocal health agreement is designed to cover you on a trip to a country and not designed for those permanently resident in another country.The Dept of Health website makes it very clear if you reside in another country the NHS is not available and you should make adequate provision for healthcare. I do not know how they can make it any clearer.
A reciprical agreement is designed for whatever is agreed between the respective countries . Whilst the NHS is not available to those that live permanently in Turkey it is available to Turks who live permanently in the UK. I believe that there are countries who have such agreements with the Turkish government for their people who live in Turkey. We need to urge the UK Government to make similar agreements
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The information below has been sent to me and a few others and requested to pass on as it appears on the Turkish Website:-
I have spoken to my friend Ramazan this morning who kindly went onto the Turkish website with regards to this Health Insurance and gave me the following information which I'm sure will interest you.
We have been given a figure of 212.76 TL per month. I am not sure where this figure came from. The information Ramazan read out to me is that if your income is below 295 TL per month you would not pay anything and your treatment would be free. If your income was between 295 TL and 886 TL you would have to pay 35.40 TL per month. If between 886 TL and 1773 you would have to pay 106.40 TL per month and anything over 1773 TL you would pay 213 TL. The 213 TL is close to the 212.76 TL, so does that mean the government presume we all are bringing in more that 1773 TL in interest each month?
By the information that has been explained to me, your interest is your income, so the more you bring in the more you pay as I have just explained. If this proves to be the case, then what happens for instance if you are bringing in say 1775 TL which is at the highest level and the bank interest rate drops after they have calculated what you earn, would you be reduced to the lower rates and how would they know? I would imagine there are a lot of Ex Pats in the Fethiye area who are bringing in less than 1773 TL including myself. Does this mean we will get the lower rate? There has been no mention of any of us bringing bank details when we register, so how are they going to know what our income is? If we did show our income, it would take some considerable time for this to be sorted out.
The benefits of this insurance means that you do not pay anything at the State Hospital and prescriptions costs would be 20% cheaper. If you decided to go to Esnaf or Letoon hospitals, you would pay only 30% of the cost. For example if your treatment came to 1000 TL you would only pay 300 TL.
It is imperative that we all register by the 31st January if you have already had Residency for one year or more, otherwise you will be fined 886 TL. If you have only just taken out Residency or had Residency for less than one year then you do not need to register until the end of the first year.
Below is the link where Ramazan received his information, if you speak Turkish you will be able to understand it all, or you may have someone to translate it for you:
http://www.internethaber.com/sgk-genel-saglik-sigortasi--396048h-p2.htm
I hope this helps a little as I know the more information we receive the more it helps. If these rates do apply to us, then for those of us who are not so well off, then maybe it isn't so bad. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.
Regards
LS
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quote:
Originally posted by grizabella
So,what do I do now?Register or not?Dont want to incur the fine.Am not covered by the NHS and have no private medical insurance over here.Have always paid up front for my medical requirements.
"British nationals who have lived in Turkey for one year will receive a letter about joining the scheme and then have one month to register."
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That message referred to Didim area Eric, I put it on in full yesterday
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No its not. The bit I pasted is directly from the British Embassy's web site. Link below.
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/
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What would they know about Turkish organisation:D
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Joking apart, why take the chance? we got our marriage license translated, took our forms which we luckily picked up there to the SGK office,
when you squeezed through the door go to the right, there is a mock up of a form on the notice board showing the information you need to enter, fill your form in the take it into the managers office on the right and all done! we were there about 10 minutes
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
Joking apart, why take the chance? we got our marriage license translated, took our forms which we luckily picked up there to the SGK office,
when you squeezed through the door go to the right, there is a mock up of a form on the notice board showing the information you need to enter, fill your form in the take it into the managers office on the right and all done! we were there about 10 minutes
Great info, we had to fill out one form each (same form) and
just to add, on the topline you will see a row of boxes where you enter your kimlik number. We did not wait long and the lady was helpful :)(despite the strain of checking everyones paper work) She then told us we will receive health insurance card via post. Will wait to see how much we pay/when and where to pay. :D C
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@Denise40, apparently your friend Ramazan didn't read the whole article.
This is written on page 4 about foreigners:
Ayrica gelirlerinin brüt asgari ücretin iki kati oldugu, yani bin 773 TL oldugu varsayilarak, her ay 213 TL prim borcu tahakkuk ettirilecektir.
In addition, their income will be assumed as twice the gross minimum wage, meaning 1773 TL, and a fee of 213 TL will be applied.
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Chinook so you want the british government to create an agreement that is totally different to any other agreement that the UK has in place at the moment. Foreign health cover under these agreementscost the UK in excess of £1.7 billion over the past 3 years.
So what about the rest of the expats living abroad should they not be included. Let us have a free health service for everyone irrelevant of where they live and let the UK tax payer pay for those who have decided to live in thesun. Get real because it will never happen.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinook
quote:
In the UK you pay NIC, do we complain? so what the hell is the difference to paying 213Tl?
When we lived there I paid for our insurance, somewhere between 700 and 900Tl per year, we never had need to use it but it was there.
How many times does it have to be said the payment of NIC has NOTHING to do with the NHS . The NHS is free to recipients if you qualify. If a Turkish person is given permision by the Home office to reside in the UK they are entitled to the free services of the NHS. As I have said previously we should be lobbying the British Government to negotiate a reciprical agreement with Turkey as other countries have.
Sorry you are wrong that the NIC has nothing to do with the NHS.
The main areas funded by the National Insurance contributions are the NHS, unemployment benefit,sickness and disability and the state pension.
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Why the hell should the British tax payer pay for us that decide to leave the UK and go and live or work abroad, I have lived abroad for twenty-four years now and do not expect the British tax payer to pick up any bill for me, even though I paid NI and tax while in the UK, once you leave you leave your rights to free NHS behind you.
You are the ones having a good life in a better climate, why should the hard working Brit support you, it is hard enough for them to support themselves and their families at the moment.
Not sure why some Brits think they rule the world and everyone should bend backwards to please them.
Stop moaning and going round like headless chickens and pay what you are supposed to, it was your choice to leave the UK and if you don't like what life is dealing you at the moment well move on.
Why the hell you are expecting everything for nothing is beyond me if you cannot afford to pay then you should not be living in Turkey you should have stayed in the UK and got everything for free.
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A little harshly put perhaps, but I have to agree.
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Just become a Turkish citizen get passport go to england and get what all the foreigners get ,simples init [^]
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Thankyou Lance you always make me laugh, and some levity on this thread is surely a good thing!
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quote:
Sus - Sorry you are wrong that the NIC has nothing to do with the NHS.
The main areas funded by the National Insurance contributions are the NHS, unemployment benefit,sickness and disability and the state pension
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/BeginnersGuideToTax/NationalInsurance/IntroductiontoNationalInsurance/DG_190052
Suggest you read this link when you will find that paying NIC builds up your entitlement to certain state benefits none of which have anything to do with the NHS. NHS is a free at point of source funded by general taxation. NIC has no more to do with the specific funding of the NHS than car tax or VAT.This is why for example a Turkish person, amongst others, who is given the right to live in the UK is entitled to use the NHS for free without making any payments
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quote:
Ovacikpeedoff - Chinook so you want the british government to create an agreement that is totally different to any other agreement that the UK has in place at the moment.
The UK does have healthcare agreements with other countries admittedley many relate to short term visitors eg people who stay for no more than 6 months in any year; but is there any reason why they could not negotiate to get the same rights in Turkey as Turkish people with valid residency have in the UK. There would be no cost burden on the UK in the same way that the UK government does not seek reimbursement from Turkey for the free treatment provided to their citizens residing in the UK
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Chinook - a favour please - can you leave the person's name in you are quoting. Thanks
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quote:
Highlander - Chinook - a favour please - can you leave the person's name in you are quoting. Thanks
Thanks for the reminder Highlander
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinook
quote:
Sus - Sorry you are wrong that the NIC has nothing to do with the NHS.
The main areas funded by the National Insurance contributions are the NHS, unemployment benefit,sickness and disability and the state pension
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/BeginnersGuideToTax/NationalInsurance/IntroductiontoNationalInsurance/DG_190052
Suggest you read this link when you will find that paying NIC builds up your entitlement to certain state benefits none of which have anything to do with the NHS. NHS is a free at point of source funded by general taxation. NIC has no more to do with the specific funding of the NHS than car tax or VAT.This is why for example a Turkish person, amongst others, who is given the right to live in the UK is entitled to use the NHS for free without making any payments
Suggest you read this link as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
The NHS is largely funded from general taxation (including a proportion from National Insurance payments).[
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quote:
The NHS is largely funded from general taxation
Sus thats what I specifically said. Your previous post gave the impression that it was specifically funded from NIC and therefore a benefit derived through that action.The money just comes from a big pot; and always remember that a Wikipedia entry is subjectively written by an individual which is why I would always quote by choice from official publications.
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Surely it doesn't matter a fig where the money comes from, NI Contributions and/or General Taxation. The point is if you are contributing you are entitled to benefits. If you stop contributing you are not entitled to benefits.
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Agree Highlander which is why I said that the money came from a big pot. My point was/is that paying NIC either currently or in the past does not entitle people to treatment under the NHS. The treatment benefit is provided free of cost to those that qualify.Many people from their posts appear to be under the misapprehension that it does.
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Foreign citizens legally residing in the UK are entitled to NHS care. If it was any other way test cases would be brought and the government would be forced to concede as it is an infringement of human rights.
Secondly, reciprocal agreements do not work on the basis of no fees charged at national level. All treatments are invoiced at government level and as I stated earlier the UK has paid over nearly 2 billion for the past 3 years.
Thirdly, reciprocal agreements do not guarantee free medical care. What they guarantee is that you would be entitled to the same treatment as a local at the same cost that the local pays.Agreements are designed for short trips such as holidays and business. If you decide to reside in a country then the agreement does not apply. The EU health card will get you up to 3 months care and no more within the EU.
We see the sensational headlines when the odd foreigner claims but many foreigners are employed in the UK paying tax and NI and contributing to the growth of the economy and that entitles them to access the NHS. On the other hand we have expats living in Turkey that are contributing to the growth not of the UK economy but to the growth of the Turkish economy and expect the UK taxpayer to subsidize them.
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In reply to Highlander, can he tell me why I am not entitled to healthcare in the UK even though I am still paying income tax in the UK.
That means I am contributing, doesn't it?
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The question was raised 'what do I get for my money'. We (Rindaloo) and myself joined the Bag Kur system in January 2011. In the last year I have had Cataracts removed from both eyes at the Esnaf Hospital in Fethiye. WITHOUT Bag Kur I was quoted 1000tl per eye. WITH Bag Kur the operations were FREE. I opted to pay an additional 200tl per eye for top quality replacement lenses. Normal quality lenses were also free. Following a complication caused by previous eye surgery in the UK I was referred to a professor who specialised in my condition. His consultation fee was 25tl the same as any specialist consultation in the private hospitals. (Esnaf, Letoon etc). Provided any follow up consultations are within 10 days they are not charged for. The eye clinic in Esnaf has state of the art equipment and extremely knowledgeable staff and doctors.
From going to the Esnaf to make an appointment to see the surgeon to having the operation was 2 weeks. I didn't have to go to a family doctor or optician first to get a referral and then wait weeks or even months just to have the initial consultation. I have been completely stunned at the level of care I received and am so glad we took the decision to subscribe to Bag Kur. I think the NHS could lrearn quite a few lessons from the Turkish health care system, particularly in reducing waiting times.
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In reply to farmer
I did say in my post that if you are contributing you are entitled to benefits and I readily confess that I was meaning people resident in the UK and not people living abroad who still pay tax in this country.
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So us living in Turkey and still paying UK tax on our pensions and get SFA out of the UK are subsidising everyone in the UK. Letting us stop paying tax in the UK would help us pay for our SGK here, that sounds fair to me.
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Well after sorting the confusion out and find that I am entitled to join the ssk , I went today , it took me 5 minutes and hopefully I will soon be on the scheme, I for one am happy to pay if it means that at long last I have affordable health cover, and will not have to return to the Uk to live if my health deteriorates
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Farmer if you are paying tax in the UK it might be worth investigating whether you can claim double taxation relief and elect to be taxed in Turkey.If your income is in the form of a pension it is worth considering.
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quote:
Originally posted by farmer
In reply to Highlander, can he tell me why I am not entitled to healthcare in the UK even though I am still paying income tax in the UK.
That means I am contributing, doesn't it?
Explanations below;
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374
Quote;
"What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.
Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK"
Other links/explanations below;
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074373
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I have just read that David from the ex. Independant newspaper is being so kind as to help fill in forms for us at 25TL per person "because there is no one at the office thats speaks English" he can copy all the forms and save us waiting around for hours" There is a lovely woman there who speaks English and is very helpful. Needed 1 copy of passport. 1 copy of RP second page and if applicable 1 translated and notarised marriage certificate. There is an example form on the wall showing you what to fill in. Nice work if you can get it!! It makes me so angry that these people try to take advantage. It takes 10 minutes...:-\
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I confess to not knowing of the regulations cited by Eric.
Presumably however those who have chosen to live abroad have been and are aware of these regulations.
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Yes. Anne, Mercury, I went today too, it was easy but I did have Yetis with me , We took a queue number and went outside to wait , i remarked to Yetis that Turks etc will be making a killing charging for help, heard of one bloke charging 20tl each and taking 10 people at a time!
After 10 minutes Yetis went inside and realised that there was a Yabanci section , we went in and in 2 minutes I was registered
Maybe if we had had time it could have been a good money spinner for our respective charities here :D
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On a less selfish note, I was surprised how many Turks were registering, Yetis said these were all unemployed and now the Government will understand how huge the numbers are and will maybe give them more help
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinook
Agree Highlander which is why I said that the money came from a big pot.
Come on you said it had nothing to do with the NIC it was funded by tax.
I said the NIC payments funded NHS, unemployment benefit,sickness and disability and the state pension
:)Please have the decency to admit when you are wrong or say OK we were both right up to a point :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
I confess to not knowing of the regulations cited by Eric.
Presumably however those who have chosen to live abroad have been and are aware of these regulations.
Thank you Eric for you post.
Yes, I am classed as a "UK Resident" because I live and work abroad but not as a "Ordinarily resident"
A "UK Resident" has no claim on free use NHS or benefits after they have been out of the country for three months may be six months now not sure if it has changed yet and also have no right to vote.
Under the current Regulations, certain people who have lived in the UK who are currently working overseas are still entitled to free National Health Service (NHS) hospital treatment in England. The following groups of people would be fully exempt from charges for NHS hospital treatment in England:
Anyone who at some point has lived lawfully in the UK for ten continuous years and is working abroad for a period of not more than five years
Please note it states Working not Living and enjoying your Life outside the UK.
An "Ordinarily resident" is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.
Therefore none of us who live full time in Turkey have any claim against the UK for Health or benefits.
So it all boils down to that I have got a UK Passport and a UK State Pension as I paid my NIC all the time while abroad, but that is the only thing I am still entitled to, which I think is really good that I have both of them still.
This is also a good read for UK Pensioners living abroad.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_128863
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I contacted the Embassy yesterday and they told me to hold fire until thursday as there was another meeting in Ankara to discuss other details such as pre=existing conditions for people in Bagkur etc.
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Been this morning in all the rain. 6th in queue. Handed over all paperwork,it was duly checked and I was told you will receive a letter in February or March.10 mins altogether.
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Sus
NIC does not specifically fund the National Health as you keep saying nor ,and this is my point, does paying it , entitle you to any specific national health benefits, as they are free if you qualify, unlike the other benefits that you enjoined it too which are only available if you make NIC payments. SO often you hear people saying words to the effect " I paid my NI so I am entitled to go back and have treatment under the NHS"; the post that I responded too referred to for periods of 37 and 40 years. They are not unless it was a pre-existing condition before they chose to live outside the UK.I know someone who has had hip replacement under the NHS,the need for which arose after he chose to live full time in Turkey ,and for which he returned to the UK when appointments were made and operations carried out. He cannot see that what he has done is fraud as in his words he has "paid his stamp"; and the reason he did it - he does not have medical insurance in Turkey.
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Don't know if this helps, but its worth reading. I think that the British way of lets panic now and sort it out later, is all too abundant.
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/
British nationals who have lived in Turkey for one year will receive a letter about joining the scheme and then have one month to register.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinook
Sus
NIC does not specifically fund the National Health as you keep saying nor ,and this is my point, does paying it , entitle you to any specific national health benefits, as they are free if you qualify, unlike the other benefits that you enjoined it too which are only available if you make NIC payments. SO often you hear people saying words to the effect " I paid my NI so I am entitled to go back and have treatment under the NHS"; the post that I responded too referred to for periods of 37 and 40 years. They are not unless it was a pre-existing condition before they chose to live outside the UK.I know someone who has had hip replacement under the NHS,the need for which arose after he chose to live full time in Turkey ,and for which he returned to the UK when appointments were made and operations carried out. He cannot see that what he has done is fraud as in his words he has "paid his stamp"; and the reason he did it - he does not have medical insurance in Turkey.
Please please please, OK OK OK my lord and master you are right, if that will make you happy.:D
But I did not say that the NIC specifically funded the NHS I said something along the lines that it helps to fund the NHS, benefit, sickness pay and state pension.
Please if you want to be right be so,I do not mind at all. :)
I agree with you on the hip replacement yes it is fraud but if they want to have it done then it is up to the individual and the UK Government to sort out and stop it happening.
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This may have been covered already. But i have just registered and it was very easy, in and out in a few minutes. There is a form pinned up on the notice board there to assist you in filling in your form. Some people had to leave and get correct documentation, so please take the original translation of your marriage certicicate and kimlik number. You also need to write your telephone number on the form. A copy of your passport and residency. You do not need a ticket, just join the queue for the foreigners section which is a small office on the right as you go in the door.
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How many 90 day breaks can you take out of the UK in a year or a 3 year or a 5 year period.
I am sure I read somewhere that people who took a "year out" to travel were covered by doing a calculation over a number of years?
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Ian. I believe if you are ordinarily resident in UK you can go abroad for up to 6 months. Here is a link.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374
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A few questions.
Is a current NHS registration card proof of qualification of being a patient in the UK?
If you are in receipt of a UK state pension are you qualified to receive NHS treatment, even if you are abroad for 6 months abroad?
If you are retired and receiving a UK pension are you permitted to join the Turkish NHS?
If you are not permitted to join the Turkish NHS do you have to register?
A high % of expats living in Turkey are doing so in receipt of UK State pensions. Does Turkey really want to accept the medical care of this ageing population?
Some of the retired expats would opt to join the Turkish NHS rather than pay into far more private expensive schemes, will they be allowed?
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Hamilton,
Your first questions about the NHS, the answers are yes, if you are in the UK, you will have no NHS cover whilst in Turkey.
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I am a retired expat receiving a UK pension and I joined over a year ago and they knew I was retired as it says so on my Residency.
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Hamilton Further to Diverbaz's post your card will technically cease to be valid if you have been in Turkey for more than 3 months. In reality it prbably depends whether your GP has taken you off his list.
On your second point the answer is no . This only applies if you reside in an EU country like Spain
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinook
Hamilton Further to Diverbaz's post your card will technically cease to be valid if you have been in Turkey for more than 3 months. In reality it prbably depends whether your GP has taken you off his list.
On your second point the answer is no . This only applies if you reside in an EU country like Spain
I think you will find that UK retired residents can stay abroad (no stipulation as to where) for periods over 6 months(there appears to be no time limit) and still be entitled to UK treatment on return. The 3 months applies to normal residents.
An interesting point though if you carry a valid EU medical card that might entitle you to treatment within the EU? including the UK
If you are retired own a property in the UK, pay your council tax, tax on your pension in the UK, exempt for NI as you are fully paid up, why should you not be entitled to UK NHS regardless of how long you are out of the country?
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quote:
Originally posted by Pauline Smy
This may have been covered already. But i have just registered and it was very easy, in and out in a few minutes. There is a form pinned up on the notice board there to assist you in filling in your form. Some people had to leave and get correct documentation, so please take the original translation of your marriage certicicate and kimlik number. You also need to write your telephone number on the form. A copy of your passport and residency. You do not need a ticket, just join the queue for the foreigners section which is a small office on the right as you go in the door.
Thank you Pauline for this useful information. Can I ask what sort of time you went as you were done and dusted so quickly? We collected our forms on Tuesday mid morning and the place was packed.
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Sounds good but what if: You are taken seriously ill, have an accident ect and are unable to travel or get permission to travel back to UK for treatment ,have no private medical insurance or the money here to pay for treatment/operation.
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There is a Murdur office on the right as you go in Lee. Thats why it only took us less than 10 minutes at 2 p.m. today. All our paperwork was sorted before we went in including the form which someone gave us before we went but it will only take 5 mins to that.
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quote:
An interesting point though if you carry a valid EU medical card that might entitle you to treatment within the EU? including the UK
Apparently not...
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx
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Hamilton you are wrong. There are time stipulations. In England is being outside the UK for 182 days,in Wales and Scotland it is 6 months.
The definition of residency has between defined through common law. You cannot be ordinarily resident in 2 countries.Ilearned this doing my accountancy exams many years ago.I am no expert on the law but taking out residency in Turkey could be seen as declaring you are ordinarily resident in Turkey. Those who have opted to have their pensions taxed under Turkish law are certainly in a dubious position.
As Quackers point out how much of this discussion is really relevant. The most likely case of needing healthcare is when you collapse with a stroke or a heart attack. You will not be in a position to return to the UK.
If you live in Turkey and apply for the EU card it is illegal.Why is it we are very quick to have a go at foreigners for trying something illegal but we are happy to do it ourselves.
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quote:
Originally posted by quackers
Sounds good but what if: You are taken seriously ill, have an accident ect and are unable to travel or get permission to travel back to UK for treatment ,have no private medical insurance or the money here to pay for treatment/operation.
That's the risk you take if you do not register and pay the fee in Turkey. Being retired I personally think it's a good idea to register and pay the fee, but I am unsure of what my entitlements will be???? so is it worth it??? That is the reason I think that it's important to keep my options open and if possible hold onto my UK NHS registration which I beieve is valid.
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English ne'r the foreigner
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I have just received this from PWC
http://www.vergiportali.com/Content.aspx?Type=BulletinDid=3410
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quote:
Originally posted by starmanTM
I have just received this from PWC
http://www.vergiportali.com/Content.aspx?Type=BulletinDid=3410
Talk about more questions than answers, this makes it even more confusing, do we or don't we HAVE to register by the 31st Jan. Has ANYBODY had one of these letters?
I know we haven't and we have been here for 4 years, albeit on 2 consecutive RP visa's of 3 years each, the last one taken out in August 2011. We are also registered at the Nufus Office so they can't say they don't have our address, or are they waiting until August 2012 to tell us - confused? Damn right we are.
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OK
My residency permit is only two weeks old and I have been told not to apply until I get a letter or within one month of serving 12 months of my residency.
A guy in front of us was refused as he had lived here for only six months on his new residency.
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OK folks here is the latest from the Embassy website:
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals
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Important Advice HERE (http://inspiringmylife.com/wp-content/uploads/dont-worry-be-happy.jpg)
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Well here's the latest from FCO.
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals
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Thanks for that LeeGlo, I have cpoied the new part of the text here incase it suddenly disappears (as has happened before).
Help for British nationals
Latest Update on Turkish Health Insurance Regulations
This is an update to our notice earlier today 25 January about the sudden changes to the Turkish health insurance system which have introduced compulsory state health insurance for foreigners when they have been in Turkey as registered residents for over a year. Foreigners in this category are required to join the system by the end of January or face a fine for non-payment.
The Ambassador and a consular team called on the Turkish authorities today. He set our concerns over the substance, cost, lack of clarity and short notice of the change that has been announced.
After further discussion, we have established with the Turkish authorities that the situation is now as follows:
- Following our representations, the new compulsory requirement to register for Turkish health insurance will NOT (NOT) apply to British residents in Turkey.
- But British residents who have already chosen to join the Turkish system will be allowed to continue in it.
- And other British residents will be allowed to join the Turkish scheme if they wish to do so.
- Under the rules in their current form, those who have been resident for over a year and delay joining the Turkish system beyond the deadline of 31 January 2012 can choose to join later; but they would have to make a backdated payment to cover the period from 31 January if they had been resident in Turkey for a year at that date, and pay a fine.
- We are in continuing contact with the Turkish authorities over all this, including about the fine given that the situation remains confused and that our resident community members have not had adequate time or information to make such an important decision.
- We will let you know as soon as we have more information.
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That's that sorted then
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Yup, but there's the slightly icky bit at the end about "Under the rules in their current form, those who have been resident for over a year and delay joining the Turkish system beyond the deadline of 31 January 2012 can choose to join later; but they would have to make a backdated payment to cover the period from 31 January if they had been resident in Turkey for a year at that date, and pay a fine.
"
Lets hope that can be clarified incase someone decides in the future to join the system (say 3 years) and cops 3 years of payments AND a fine.....
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For f====s sake!!!!!
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told you all about 15 posts ago they havent got a bloody clue what they,re doing. ;)
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quote:
Yup, but there's the slightly icky bit at the end about "Under the rules in their current form, those who have been resident for over a year and delay joining the Turkish system beyond the deadline of 31 January 2012 can choose to join later; but they would have to make a backdated payment to cover the period from 31 January if they had been resident in Turkey for a year at that date, and pay a fine.
"
Lets hope that can be clarified incase someone decides in the future to join the system (say 3 years) and cops 3 years of payments AND a fine.....
Does not say you can choose to join or not, just that you can join later.
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"Under the rules in their current form, those who have been resident for over a year and delay joining the Turkish system beyond the deadline of 31 January 2012 can choose to join later; but they would have to make a backdated payment to cover the period from 31 January if they had been resident in Turkey for a year at that date, and pay a fine."
I read it as meaning you can choose to join now or not. If you choose not to and decide later to join, you will be clobbered with a fine AND backpayments to the 31st Jan.
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They do love their fines don't they :-\
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Repeat. will they, wont they,will they, wont they, what a great topic this is to keep the forum active. :)
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BUT,
When does the residency rule apply,we renewed ours May 2011 do we wait until May 2012 to register i.e after having lived here a year,or is from the date of issue.
We have heard,and seen in print,cases of people being told come back when your current residency is a year old but also know of people who have had their latest residency only a few months yet were allowed to register.
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quote:
Originally posted by desmartinson
Repeat. will they, wont they,will they, wont they, what a great topic this is to keep the forum active. :)
What? Like it's dead without this thread!!!!! :o
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Love it.....at least everyone now has a choice, so everyone should be happy. Apart from those who are now going complain that they didn't really want to join but have rushed to do so....
We will still join at the end of our first years residency as we think that for approx £80 per couple per month it's great value for peace of mind.
Moral of the story ,yet again, do not rush to act on any changes here in Turkey just wait and see, as in every case so far it all changes before the original deadlines.
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Not on topic but can I ask - if people have the choice to have their pension(s) paid in the UK or Turkey, why do they chose the UK.
With apologies if that's a daft question
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Not on topic but can I ask - if people have the choice to have their pension(s) paid in the UK or Turkey, why do they chose the UK.
With apologies if that's a daft question
do behave John:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo
quote:
Originally posted by desmartinson
Repeat. will they, wont they,will they, wont they, what a great topic this is to keep the forum active. :)
What? Like it's dead without this thread!!!!! :o
of course not Lynne, thats what CBF is all about, even the people that live in england, oh and scotland cant resist it. ;):D
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I promise to behave desmartinson, if you promise to answer the question :o
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quote:
Originally posted by George Warner
BUT,
When does the residency rule apply,we renewed ours May 2011 do we wait until May 2012 to register i.e after having lived here a year,or is from the date of issue.
We have heard,and seen in print,cases of people being told come back when your current residency is a year old but also know of people who have had their latest residency only a few months yet were allowed to register.
Some friends of ours registered today, they renewed their RP in August 2011, as we did, they were asked for a copy of the page of their RP showing the previous visa period as well as the current one.
So it looks as though previous RP periods (if they are consecutive) are being taken into account. We are going tomorrow and I'll post to let you know how we get on as ours is definitely consecutive.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Not on topic but can I ask - if people have the choice to have their pension(s) paid in the UK or Turkey, why do they chose the UK.
With apologies if that's a daft question
You can have State Pension paid in Turkey but maybe not Private Pensions, depends on your provider. We chose to have our State Pension paid in the UK because it was much easier and it allows us to draw on it in Sterling via our Flex a/c card and exchange it at a favourable rate here.
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John, mine is paid in the UK but I do not have a choice in the matter. Because I was in South Wales Fire Service which covers several Unitary Authorites, it is a 'Combined Fire Authority' which the IR regard as a Government pension and cannot be paid here. If I had been in a 'County Fire Service', Devon, Durham etc, it would not be regarded as a 'Government' pension. Work that one out! Same pension scheme!
Given a choice I would have it paid here then there would be no tax to pay.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Not on topic but can I ask - if people have the choice to have their pension(s) paid in the UK or Turkey, why do they chose the UK.
With apologies if that's a daft question
i do not have a choice - my company pension admin will only pay in the UK
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I have a Civil Service pension which I have no choice, must be paid and taxed in the UK, and a private pension that I am about to apply to have paid tax free here.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
I promise to behave desmartinson, if you promise to answer the question :o
i assume you mean pensions question John, i cant answer yet as i dont get mine for another 2 years. ;)
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Well why in heavens name were you asking me to behave:-\ when all I did was ask a perfectly civil question which as you will see some people were kind enough to answer
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That's good news about the Turkish Health Insurance and clears a lot of uncertainty.
Now we have a choice , take it, or leave it, with-in your allocated years residency.
I know we will be taking advantage of this and not just wait until we get an illness , it has piece of mind built in.
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apoligize John, didnt mean to offend you.
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On the British Embassy web site they have made an annoucement that you DO NOT HAVE to join. But if any brits want to they can.
Good news for un-married people now no rush to get wed we can do it later & join when & if we want.
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I have my pension paid into UK account too - but only because its a government one and the contracted out bankers wont pay to Turkish bank accounts, EU, Canada and USA only!
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some people are saying they want to join but are waiting for their years residency, my renewal is only 4 months old and they accepted it no problem, there was also a 90 day visa between my last residency.
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This is the paragraph that will need to be re written, it will be interesting to see the new wording.
quote:
Under the rules in their current form, those who have been resident for over a year and delay joining the Turkish system beyond the deadline of 31 January 2012 can choose to join later; but they would have to make a backdated payment to cover the period from 31 January if they had been resident in Turkey for a year at that date, and pay a fine.
Will it say something like, it's not compulsory to join the SGK scheme if you can prove you have health cover in Turkey (not NHS, no one has NHS cover in Turkey).
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I do not believe this is quite the turn around people are thinking it is. On the one hand it says it is not compulsory to join, on the other hand it says if you do not join now and join later you have to pay back fees and a fine. So, it is just a fancy way of saying join now or we will sting you even more. I am still going to hold out until Tuesday and see what (if any) updates we receive.
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Joan you are just confusing things. Read the statement again on the consulate web site. its says if you CHOOSE to join you will pay back dated. if you dont choose to join your not in it. Its simple . i said in previous posts that i was surprised all x pats running and signing upto something they new nothing about. So there they are in the system now. its laughable. Theres a massive lesson to be learnt here. Anyway i was never going to be bullied to join something and would never have paid a fine if it was given. BUT, having said that now that i have the CHOICE i will now get as much information ie, what am i covered for for 212tl a month and decide on that. People will be relieved now its sorted but all you people who have registered surely must be asking the question yourself 'what are we covered for'.
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Any chance of a bit of guidance on my questions below:
As an unmarried couple (for l8 years), we think the rules say we BOTH have to pay the 212tL a month, but if we married we would only pay one set of 212tl a month, which we could then afford and would appreciate the peace of mind having medical insurance would give us.
Residency Permit:What would need to be done regarding our current 4 year Residency Permits. Does my `wife` have to have hers completely redone from scratch at a totally new charge for the change of surname, or is there a smaller charge for just the change of name. Anyone had to have this done?
House Tapu: We have had this in joint names for 8 years, so if we marry does a new Tapu have to be issued and at what cost and will the then current date on it mean we can`t sell our house for a further 5 years without having to pay capital gains tax on any profit. Or is there a simpler way of changing the details, again anyone done this?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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quote:
Originally posted by Diverbaz 1
not NHS, no one has NHS cover in Turkey.
I don't understand Baz, if that is the case why do so many British expats make trips to the UK to pick up their prescriptions?
:D
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Hoopsman - I understand your point, however, like many people I know, I do not believe the Turkish government will just let this drop. I would not be surprised if in a year or so it comes up again and we are told that 100% it is now compulsory and fines and backdated payments have to be paid. I may be being cynical, but will still wait and see what information we get in the next few days. I hope your understanding is correct and mine is wrong!
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So is it registration form or an application to join form now?
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Sorry joan just making the point is that its clear as the nose on my face. You now have a choice. You can join this scheme or you can choose not to. Whatever rules or regulations the Turkish government hit us with in a years time is irrelivant. Why worry about what may or may never happen. probably something else will come out and then we will start all panicing again. What are you waiting for till tuesday? The consulate clearly state that its not compulsary so let me put it this way. if you dont register and then the turkish government say you are getting a fine surely you can claim your fine back from the british govermnent because its splashed all over their web site that its cancelled(not compulsary) so there you are stop worrying it aint going to happen.
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After the roller coaster few days and many emotions (including blind panic amongst some) I do have to say that now it is a choice rather than a requirement, that for those who don't want to ignore the fact they have no cover and are getting older in a foreign country - it is a bloody good deal..! More so of course for married couples and families. I looked for health cover when we moved there and there was nothing, not even private health schemes.
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Exactly Scunner. A friend had a major heart attack out at sea in the summer, had heart bypass surgery in Turkey & a Harley St doctor told them that he could not have done a better job. Total cost IRO £16k & not covered by insurance. If that were to happen to me, with SGK, most of that cost would be covered & if not, I may well be pushing up daisies before I've had to pay that amount in to the sysytem. I know which I prefer to do
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Why worry about what may never happen???? You take out insurance on your homes for anything that may never happen. We have Depram insurance incase we have an earthquake, it may never happen. You take out car insurance incase anything happens. Some have pet insurance just in case anything happens.Why not medical insurance just incase anything happens.
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George as I understand it you register your intent to join the system ,when you get your card and payment ammount, if you do not pay them then when you need medical assistance you wil be required to pay your back payments but not the fine as you have registered before the deadline. If however you register to join after the end of Feb or even years later,because you need medical assistance, you will be required to pay the fine and back payments to Jan 2012 because you failed to register and pay monthly subscriptions.
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We had private health cover and it cost us 6000 USDollars a year, because at the time you had to have health cover in the country we were living in, thank the lord we had because in eightteen months I had to have two emergency ops that cost in total £14,750, so the small amount Turkey are asking you to pay is nothing.
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We currently have little or no pre existing conditions and as we hope to spend 8 months a year in Turkey for a few years - this is a good deal for us at about £75 a month IF we are allowed to join?
So we will join now before I start "falling to pieces" in my 60's :)
And not sure if it is "urban myth" but we have heard it said regularly that things we are told "it's your age you will have to live with it" in the UK by our doctors working to targets are dealt with more sympathetically here ........?
We have also been told of some fabulous treatment for extremeley serious conditions so maybe you can actually go into hospital here and come out without MRSA ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Denton
Any chance of a bit of guidance on my questions below:
As an unmarried couple (for l8 years), we think the rules say we BOTH have to pay the 212tL a month, but if we married we would only pay one set of 212tl a month, which we could then afford and would appreciate the peace of mind having medical insurance would give us.
Residency Permit:What would need to be done regarding our current 4 year Residency Permits. Does my `wife` have to have hers completely redone from scratch at a totally new charge for the change of surname, or is there a smaller charge for just the change of name. Anyone had to have this done?
House Tapu: We have had this in joint names for 8 years, so if we marry does a new Tapu have to be issued and at what cost and will the then current date on it mean we can`t sell our house for a further 5 years without having to pay capital gains tax on any profit. Or is there a simpler way of changing the details, again anyone done this?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hello Denton,
My husband and I bought our property before we married.I haven't changed my passport or bank account here to my married name. I got my residency in my maiden name but showed my marriage certificate.
I believe that the residency and Tapu won't need to be changed, you are married but use different names.
It's an interesting point and has now got me thinking!
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Don't forget though
If you havn't done the first year of your residency, you dont have to sign up for 11 months. There is no fine or backpayment as you dont qualify until then
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Thanks for your prompt reply Hotlips. I had not looked at the matter in this way - all I could see were hurdles ahead.
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I am now very confused, does this mean (someone confirm) if I take out the Residency for one year this year to avoid being penalised regarding the 80/190 day rule, it is not mandatory to buy the Turkish health insurance?
:D
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To fill the financial gap left by the loss of British expats from the health insurance scheme, Efes is going up to 9 lira a bottle minimum selling price. A victory for all.
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quote:
I am now very confused, does this mean (someone confirm) if I take out the Residency for one year this year to avoid being penalised regarding the 80/190 day rule, it is not mandatory to buy the Turkish health insurance?
Correct Loz :)
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quote:
Originally posted by loz
I am now very confused, does this mean (someone confirm) if I take out the Residency for one year this year to avoid being penalised regarding the 80/190 day rule, it is not mandatory to buy the Turkish health insurance?
:D
No No No you do not need the Turkish Health Insurance as you have to do one year on your RP before you apply for it.
Hope I have now unconfused you. :)
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Going off subject for a moment. I am getting fed up with these digs at the treatment of the old by the NHS. There is this myth that if you reach a certain age you are left to die. This is utter rubbish. My aunt was 72 when she was diagnosed with breast cancer and she has been given the exact same treatment as a younger person would be given. She has had a number of serious complaints since and they have treated each one with the upmost care and attention. She is now 79 and a few weeks ago she had a bleeding problem. She went to the local GP and within a week she was called to see a specialist. The specialist said they must undertake a number of tests and my aunt asked what if it was cancer. The consultant just turned to her and said not to worry and if it is we will treat it. Being old my aunt has problems understanding half the medical terms. The consultant knew that and as soon as he had the results he phoned her up to tell there are no serious problems and to have a nice Christmas.My aunt has nothing but praise for the way she has been treated by the NHS. A couple of times when she was in hospital during my visits I met the consultant treating her and he was happy to give me the time to explain what was wrong with her and the treatment she was getting.
If the NHS is so bad why are you up in arms about signing up to the super healthcare system in Turkey that everyone seems to rave about. Let us see how that system will look after you if you cannot afford to pay. There are a number of Brits in Turkey who run back to use the so called useless NHS at the first sign of a problem.
.
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Great news, but its a pity that it didnt come earlier, as me and a lot of people have had to pay to have our marriage certificates translated and notorised. I could have put that money to good use, like buying some more Efes. Will the Turkish Gonvernment make an offer to reimburse us. I dont think so.
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I have heard of several cases where people have gone to the Devlet and on production of their residency book, have been given treatment/tests at minimal cost. This surely will no longer apply unless you have the SGK, otherwise there would be NO point in it. By not having SGK, I am sure the cost of medical treatment etc. will be exceptionally high should it be required.
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Yes, you were kindly offered to join a club with benefits - I am sure that for those who politely decline, there will be no favours anymore.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Yes, you were kindly offered to join a club with benefits - I am sure that for those who politely decline, there will be no favours anymore.
Oh No :o do I hear the scratching of a pen on paper writing yet another petition when this happens to the first few who declined the offer to join.
The British Embassy unindated with emails and phone calls from angry Brits stating it is not fair, we demand pay as you go treatment, the UK have a right to look after us after all the NIC and Tax we paid, we are going home and you will see that Turkey has no tourists and your economy will suffer.
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Has anyone heard that due to the system going into meltdown that the Turkish government have extended the registration period until the end of February? The information did come from a Turkish person who said it was on the Turkish government site but as I have seen nothing on the British embassy site to confirm this yet, I am not sure if this is the case.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ray1951
I have heard of several cases where people have gone to the Devlet and on production of their residency book, have been given treatment/tests at minimal cost. This surely will no longer apply unless you have the SGK, otherwise there would be NO point in it. By not having SGK, I am sure the cost of medical treatment etc. will be exceptionally high should it be required.
You are quite right, some time ago a Turkish friend came with me to register at the Devlet as I wanted to have some tests done. I had a consultation with a family doctor, blood & stool test, Dexa scan, and a further consultation with a skin specialist, because I was worried about a brown spot I thought might be skin cancer, total cost 85TL. In my opinion that was excellent value.
I also had minor eye surgery at the eye hospital Kartelmed, was in the operating suite within 20 minutes of walking through the door - cost 300TL. This included 3 visits I had already made to the private clinic in Calis.
Now some might argue that because I had paid for a residence permit then I was entitled to that, but in actual fact I had paid for the privilege of being allowed to remain living in this country for the period of my permit, and the reduced cost of medical facilities was a bonus.
This new health scheme is intended for people who actually live here full time and that is, in my opinion, where the problem lies in that people have taken out RP's in order to buy cars, get phones and avoid the new visa regulations. Before anybody starts shouting at me - I'm not saying they shouldn't have, just that it complicates things.
We have just been to sign up this morning, in and out in 10 minutes, no problems. At our ages we think that this is a good bargain, even though we have a "pot" put by for emergencies it could be wiped out in one go by the need for major surgery.
For people who are in doubt about who should/shouldn't register because their current RP is not 1 year old - just copy the page showing your previous visa period and you should have no trouble. That's if you want to join of course.
PS - Just checked the Embassy website, nothing new, no mention of extension of time or change of rules. So it looks like it's a case of if you want to join or think you may need to in the future DO IT NOW!
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One of the most important issues facing anybody thinking of moving to a foreign country to live permanantly must surely be the question of sorting out adequate medical cover for yourselves.
We joined the SGK Feb 2011,cost for the two of us 400 TL,my wife had an operation,lots of tests,stay in hospital,etc,etc.I can only say I was impressed by the speed,efficiency,and professional way the matter was processed.
Then we were informed,along with many other's that our insurance had been terminated due to the system being changed in December.
Residents,and by residents I mean the people that live here 12mths of the year,now have a God given chance of getting themselves into a medical scheme,with full cover,for what I consider pennies.
I think it's bloody wonderful,as it stands,at this point in time,we can get back in for half the price we were paying,nowt wrong with that.
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and that is in your opinion, and nothing wrong with that, what they have done now is give people the choice to join or not to join, your choice was to join, other people may not want to, at least it is fair and up to the individual/
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My Turkish friend says that everyone has until the end of February to register now as they have been swamped. He was there this morning and that is what he was told.
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Quackers when i said dont worry it aint going to happen i was not refering to us getting an illness in the future! It was refering to the insurance scheme being compulsary. My point was you have a choice. i for one am looking at joining once i have looked into it more. many people already have private cover so they dont need to join it at the moment. One thing though, 212tl this year for British i wonder what increase will be added for next year. The plot thickens.
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What plot[?].
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hoops man, as the premiums are tied to the average Turkish wage x 2 for foreigners there will be increases annually but I can't see them being huge. Rumours abound that it will go up to 250TL in summer when the next cost of living rises come in.
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Well I am just a happy man the Irish Embassy FINALLY got round to posting details for us lot. Bit dissapointed SGK isnt totally free for us like the RPs but they say they are working on that.....
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The biggest revelation to me with this entire story is the number of people who's whole life and future in Turkey is twenty quid a week away from being absolutely impossible.
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Amen.
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Scarey stuff Scunner
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
The biggest revelation to me with this entire story is the number of people who's whole life and future in Turkey is twenty quid a week away from being absolutely impossible.
Quite - while I appreciate that some people are on a tight budget it does beg the question just what will they do if they suddenly do need treatment, i.e. for a bad fall, road accident, heart attack.
It also makes me wonder how people in such circumstances can relax and enjoy life in a foreign country with no back up plan for such eventualities. Personally I'd find it very worrying.
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Our Bagkur goes up 15 tl each year so far.
Just for information. I have been informed that athough we have Bagkur/SSK we still have to register at SGK Office but do not need to take it up we can stay on Bagkur, we just have to put our Bagkur number on the form.
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does anyone know if this law is deffinetly coming in as i want to get a 5 year residency but i wont be able to afford to get the insurance as well and be able to live there comfortable. is there any way that this law could change at all like they did with the visas.
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Berrygirl91 ...from what I can understand it is a choice to join (at the moment) but this being Turkey things can change as we all know.
I think you also need to ask yourself, if you cannot afford the £20 a week for medical insurance, can you really afford to live here at all with the raging inflation and rising costs?
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Am I right in thinking that for a married couple it is the Bag Kur scheme that is needed and if so could you tell me how much it is to cover a married couple. Or is the SGK at 212tl a month extended without any further charge to cover the wife.
Thanks a lot.
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SGK @ 212TL (at the moment) covers man and wife.
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Thanks Eric.
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I've only just been told of all the queries questions ect on this site regarding SGK, for gods sake I can't believe how stupid some people are it's so simple and clear. You DO NOT have to sign up at all, you may get a letter "in Turkish" about SGK destroy it as many already have and carry on as before, how simple is that. If you want private insurance get it, it's much cheaper than SGK and better because SGK doesn't cover pre-exsisting health problems and will cancel out UK NHS cover. Anyone questioning this statement I get all my information direct from either British Embassy/consulate and turkish politition friends, I do not rely on heresay, gossip ect. Come on folks it's as simple as ABC.
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quote:
Originally posted by stevie wonder
I've only just been told of all the queries questions ect on this site regarding SGK
No you haven't, you were on Facebook slagging CBF members off over a week ago about this specific topic
quote:
Originally posted by stevie wonder
it's much cheaper than SGK
No it isn't
quote:
Originally posted by stevie wonder
I get all my information direct from either British Embassy/consulate and turkish politition friends
Sounds like it - you should have got them to write that petition for you too, what you came up with was appalling!
quote:
Originally posted by stevie wonder
I do not rely on heresay, gossip ect.
No Steve, you create most of the gossip in Calis these days
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Oh look, it's the guy who publicly stated that CBF was full of "bull$hit" & he wouldn't be seen dead posting here, I'll shut up now, don't want a ban for the rest of my thoughts.
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Stevie Blunder[:o)]:D:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Supacabby
Oh look, it's the guy who publicly stated that CBF was full of "bull$hit" & he wouldn't be seen dead posting here, I'll shut up now, don't want a ban for the rest of my thoughts.
Yep, the very same Mark. Is it any wonder we get bull$hit on CBF with people like him posting rubbish like this. Also the guy who was going around telling people I had died last year. Too many hours, not enough to fill them.
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He needs to get a life me thinks!!!!
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No no, don't have a go at him. We need him. He is obviously the fount of all knowledge where it comes to SGK and he will be able to sort out all our problems. Job done.
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quote:
Originally posted by anna-marie01
He needs to get a life me thinks!!!!
This is his life
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quote:
and will cancel out UK NHS cover. Anyone questioning this statement I get all my information direct from either British Embassy/consulate and turkish politition friends, I do not rely on heresay, gossip ect. Come on folks it's as simple as ABC.
Clearly you don't otherwise you would have been told that taking out SGK does not per se cancel a persons entitlement to NHS. Entitlement to free treatment under the NHS is based on residency in the UK. You lose the right technically once you have been out of the UK for 3/6 months depending on circumstances whether you have SGK, Private Insurance or no insurance at all[:o)]
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most recent info on British Embassy site:
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/
I had heard that the 31st Jan deadline had been extended, but this is clearly saying deadline is 31st January, so tomorrow is the last chance if you want to sign up and avoid back payments and a fine by the looks of things
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What a nice first post from Stevie Wonder 8) - what I "wonder" is why he bothered. [?]
Hell it's so hard to be sarcastic in print !!
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quote:
Originally posted by kayakebab
most recent info on British Embassy site:
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/
I had heard that the 31st Jan deadline had been extended, but this is clearly saying deadline is 31st January, so tomorrow is the last chance if you want to sign up and avoid back payments and a fine by the looks of things
I was at the SGK office this morning and the deadline has indeed been extended. Also for foreigners.
The SGK network was down this morning so it was completely empty inside. Almost scary :)
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Is this the Steve ,i think it is, a font of all knowledge in a certain bar on the front ,the self proclaimrd prophet of the EPK.If not then i am sorry for my words but by Christ you sure sound like him.
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quote:
Originally posted by ronzeus
Is this the Steve ,i think it is, a font of all knowledge in a certain bar on the front ,the self proclaimrd prophet of the EPK.If not then i am sorry for my words but by Christ you sure sound like him.
Well Ron, he is obviously not "the sunshine of your life" but I have a "superstition" someone must have "called to say they loved him" :o ;):D
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quote:
Well Ron, he is obviously not "the sunshine of your life" but I have a "superstition" someone must have "called to say they loved him" :o ;):D
:o "I wish" " For once in my life" I could "Blame it on the sunshine ",but to insult Scunner and CBF " I aint gonna stand for it" so be "Overjoyed" bm and "Dont worry about a thing" ;):D:D:D
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Like Dutchie,we went to to register on Monday,system down, "dont worry extended by one month come back later",went again on Tuesday place full of the indigenous population registering at the last moment"dont worry come back later period has been extended by one month"
SO!! went today to be told by the Manager its too late,registration ended on Tuesday.Only extended for Turkish folk,
After consultation between staff and said Manager it was decided because of a gap in our residency,we renewed last July, we could apply at a later date without penalty,Left and Right hand syndrome or what?
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And they wonder why expats get upset, that's just plain discrimination!
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but it did say 31st Jan on UK Embassy website which is where us expats should be taking info from really, and I did post this a few days ago to warn everyone.
Anyway, all was well luckily. I hope no one else has left it too late and will incur a fine though.
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Phil and his neighbour went with a Turkish friend to help with translating last week and they weren't allowed to register as they had not completed 1 full years residency.
Woman checked both their books.
Totally and utterly confused by it all now.
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no Jan, I couldnt register either, again, it does say you need to be 1 year resident on Embassy site, but some people said they hadnt been resident a year and had given theirs in so decided to give it a try! Theres a hand written sign on their wall in the office saying you need 1 year continuous residency, so they must have had a few of us trying it!
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Finally clarification on SGK. Check out Fethiye Times who have a link to FCO.
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No need, it easier just to post the link here
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/3723724/healthcare-presentation
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Thanks for that Scunner.
Still some areas that are as clear as mud in the presentation!! What is classed as temporary employment - any one got any ideas?