Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Property For Sale in Calis Beach & Turkey => Moving To Turkey => Topic started by: Dippey on September 22, 2005, 16:38:38 PM
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Thought i'd bring this back up again (it is posted elsewhere) as its now up top on my list of things to sort out before we move over next year.
We looked at selling our house in UK and taking the equity abroad money abroad, but instead we saw an option of keeping our house, getting the council to pay our mortgage and when the mortgage is paid off we can either sell up and take all the dosh or continue leasing to the council and living off the monthly lease payments, still not sure what to do on that bit, will let you know in five years odd.
anyway, there have been a few new memebers since i last mentioned this so its for you too.
""I'm giving my house in UK to Local Councils Housing Assoc for a fixed period of either 2, 3, 4, 5, years, they will pay me the market rental, Quarterly in advance, for the fixed term whether it is occupied or not, without any management deduction.
To me this means the local council is basically paying our mortgage.
When my morgage expires, which is soon, the Local Council will still
be paying me a fixed quarterly amount which will be the equivalent of three times the cost of living in Turkey. And guess where I will be - In Turkey living of the proceeds the Local Council are giving me for renting my house out to them.
We found the initial start and contacting the council easy, just go to your local councils website and find the "housing Assoc" link, email them that you have property you wish them to have, they will send you a list of requirements and draft of the contract.
There are a number of things that need to be done/carried out:-
No furniture, no garden tools, nothing left in loft.
Do require Fridge, oven, washing machine and must be electrical tested and passed.
All tiling in bathroons kitchens, floors must be perfect, no damaged ones or mould.
Gas heating/boiler must be passed, and take out a 3star service cover.
Cooker must have antitilt and chained to wall.
Plus a few other things, but nothing that a private rental company should insist on anyway.
Each local area is interested in certain properties, i.e they are not interested in one bedroom flats, as they have plenty, or put people in a Hostel, their main requiremnts are for 3/4 bedroom houses so they can replace/rehouse families.
Property will be given back to you at end of term unless you wish to renew and they still want it.
Downside, if our plans in Turkey don't work out, we have no house to return to until the agreement finishes, but i've never been one to give up and if the Housing Assoc/council are paying me there is no need for me to work in Turkey anyway, gosh, retired already and only in my 30's.
Dipps""
Things have changed sinced then so i'm not retiring, as in i have secured a job in Turkey staring next March/April, the delay being the amount of notice period I have to give to my present company, and the work permit paperwork, WOW, sign twelve times, stamp this stamp that, original copies of things i never knew i had! that another story.
Dipps
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Good post, but...
One other thing to consider is the type of person who will be living in your house (remember that you are going to want to sell it once it's vacated).
There is a single property on my road which is rented the way you have described. The initial rent was to a Kosovan family, but before long there appeared to be about 20 people living in it. I assume 16 of them weren't supposed to be there and I dread to think where they were all sleeping.
When they left it was rented to an Oriental family. All was quiet..very quiet until it was raided by the drug squad! It seems the family weren't actually living in it - just using EVERY ROOM IN THE HOUSE to grow drugs! It must have been like a rain forest in there!
It has now been rented to a couple who have taken to parking their car on the front lawn. It has a drive, but for some reason the couple seem to think the car prefers the lawn (now a mud patch).
So unless the council are going to return the property to its owners (they are teachers) in its original state, I dread to think how much equity has been lost due to the damage caused.
Glen
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Good point Glen.
Anne
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The council is reponsible for returning the property back to the owners in the same condition as before the lease starts as with any property rental thru council accom, the council has insurance and will take before picture etc etc etc, so if i do get the family from hell i can redorate in new colours etc and make the council (taxpayers) repair and upgrade as needs be, a new fitted kitchen would be nice if they break some cupboards for me, a bit like over exagarating an insurance claim form:D:D.
In any worst sinario, any loss on equity owing to tenants placed by the council they would have to make financial compensation, its all in the contract.
I have already done all the "what ifs", barring a meteor strike on Wycombe i'm covered all round, even for fire, Fred West's etc.
As long as the council pays my mortgage for me they can do whatever they like to the house, its the financial aspect that is important to me which is covered/protected not what type of person who lives in it and what they do to it.
When i get more and more info and a upto date copy of the contract i shall stick it on here.
Dipps
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We also have a house near us where this has happened and the property is now in a terrible state and the family housed there has neen removed from a council estate because of their behaviour. We have all been issued with sheets to log the behaviour problems so that this can be used in court to get them evicted.
We are selling our house and taking the money.
Teresa
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Think my neighbours will be pretty p issed with me !!:D:D:D:D
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I do agree with that, I have no wish to inflict this on my neighbours. It appears that Wear Valley have entered into an agreement to take families from estates in other areas of the country for 30 pieces of silver each.
Property absentee landlords are buying in residential areas and handing the property over. The owner of the property in our area is from London and lives in France and is presumably very happy while he inflicts misery on others. I am not affected by this property personally but I have seen and heard enough to know that I will not be doing it.
I also realise that business is business and money is king.
Teresa
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Thanks for the info Dippey,
Although it's not for everyone it is a great idea and, in my case, could work out very well for my in-laws.
I'm going to see them tonight and will run it by them.
Glen
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Thanks all,
I was very interested in the responses, and have been meaning to post a presentation i did to Genesis (largest Uk home assoc society)reagrding homelessness and the pressure on social housing demand, yes apart from boob jobs, motor racing, etc etc i have got involved in this as well, and hopefully dispell some myths about renting your home to the local council.
For example your home is more likely to be rented to government departments like nurses, policemen, or thru insurance companies for emergency housing owing to fire flood, subsistance.
Actually having the neighbors from hell down your street is more common in private houses than council lease, but anyway more on that later, give me a day and i'll stick the real details up of what kind of people will end up in your property, expelling the myths of Princess Diana was murdered daily express readers (has anyone actually read that paper today, what a load of buuuuuu, you have to go thru 14 pages before you find any actual news.. never mind.. give the readers what they want to read).
Full details of renting to Housing dept coming soon.
Dipps :)
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here we go...
What are the factors resulting in demand for social housing.
The are many reasons (including returning from abroad, or being a daughter of a woman who has gone to turkey to marry a waiter and left you with £35!!) and contrary to myth Asylum seekers come well down the list: - If you wish to lease your home to the local council here is a presentation I did to a housing company regarding homelessness last year, figures are from NSO (National statistics Office and supported by Office of the Deputy Prime Minister).
Ok at:-
No 1- Parents/relatives unable/unwilling to accommodate.
This is the main reason for homelessness. 2001 contributed to 33%. Teenage pregnancies. Uk has largest rate in Europe. Women/children fleeing abusive situations. People with Disabilities or complex needs, people with mental health issues, people with substance abuse problems, people with HIV, Youths who are unable to live at home.
No2 - Breakdown of relationships.
In 2002 157,000 divorces granted being 1.9% on prior and steadily growing, average 22%. Highest rate since 1997. More than 40% of marriages will end in divorce. Average marriage lasts 9 years.
3) End or loss of private rented/tied accommodation.Mainly the end of an assured tenancy. Biggest increase since 1991 to 2001 up to 22%, private rentals being sold at profit. Workers i.e. Nurses/ Police leaving/losing jobs (Note no mention of asylum seekers yet!)
4) Mortgage arrears
Economic climate reducing this reason up to 2001, but notable increase in 2004 and early 2005. Job Losses. House purchasing beyond means. Loss of joint income. Additions to family.
5) Private Rent Arrears
This is a stagnant area of 3%, mainly job losses, again loss of joint income and additions to family.
6) Others Reasons
Asylum (oh there you are near the bottom of the pile!!), increase in countries within EU, leaving an institution, prison res. Home. Sleeping rough or in hostels. Returning from abroad, Emergencies such as floods, fire, homelessness act extension, increase movement of population.
Fact 1:-There are more ASBO's, injunctions (excluding marriage/children), noise summons executed in court on or between two private residents than social housing/private residents.
Fact 2:- You are more likely to have a government worker living in social housing than an asylum seeker.
Fact 3:- Most social housing people are placed based on the area suited to them, (you understand that for better or worst which everway people wish to read into it). But where there is a shortage of housing, inner cities, large towns on outskirts or cities, you will get the odd exception of people being places in areas not suited to them.
Selling your house privately does not guarantee your purchasers will get on with your old neighbours better or worst than social housing. You will sell at best price whoever the buyers are and stuff your neighbours at the end of the day, they would to you.
Why sell when you can continue to get regular steady income guaranteed for years????
Ok, that's it for this week.
Dipps :)
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The idea of letting your home in the uk on paper appears to make good business sense, however, what of the tax implications?
Non-resident UK landlords is approximately 25% of the the net monthly rental, ok you may be lucky enough to off set some personal allowance deductions.
Capital Gains tax, charged on the assets the value increases from the date the property was obtained through to the selling of the property.
Also if there is still a mortgage on the property the mortgage lender will have to be notified, in most cases this is not a problem and no objections are raised.
The local authority are going to pay the rental whilst the property is vacant, but, do they waiver the whole of the council tax for vacant property or is the owner/landlord still expected to pay the council tax less the 25% vacant property discount, which only applies if the property is not furnished. And don't forget the water bills, are these meter or standard? a dripping tap in an empty property soon amounts to a large bill if on metered water.
Maintenance, insurance, 3 star cover agreements for landlords certificates etc. the bills are starting to mount and you have yet to receive your first months rental.
What of the accountants bills? yes they can save you money but cost you for this service. So unless you are an accountant or yourself fully conversant with the yearly tax demands and numerous forms it is not as plain sailing as first appears.
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Good points Loz and thanks for raising them, as they say the devil is in the detail.
as an accountant i'll try and answer some in general form, and i won't charge:D. For arguement sake lets say the monthly renatl is £800 pm (£9600pa). Obviously age pays an important factor and if you are still working and earning a wage. For this we shall take it that you are fed up of UK and wish to live abroad but are in your 50's and don't want to touch your pension or your savings yet.
quote:
Non-resident UK landlords is approximately 25% of the the net monthly rental, ok you may be lucky enough to off set some personal allowance deductions
So you've made £9600 on rental, then deduct your annual costs for Building insurance, 3* gas service, your personal allowance of 4895 and don't forget your partners allowance of 4895, plus deduct any mortgage payments (interest part only). Now we should have brought the tax amount down to zero or even negative, if not put a provision/accrual in for future maintenance, and we should be looking at paying only 10% tax band on the small amount involved.
quote:
Capital Gains tax, charged on the assets the value increases from the date the property was obtained through to the selling of the property.
This is an issue that only arises is you wish to sale the property, there is no bearing on CGT thru renting, and CGT has been covered elsewhere.
quote:
The local authority are going to pay the rental whilst the property is vacant, but, do they waiver the whole of the council tax for vacant property or is the owner/landlord still expected to pay the council tax less the 25% vacant property discount, which only applies if the property is not furnished. And don't forget the water bills, are these meter or standard? a dripping tap in an empty property soon amounts to a large bill if on metered water.
The council are responsible for all utility bills from the start of the contract to the end. You need not pay anything.
quote:
Maintenance, insurance, 3 star cover agreements for landlords certificates etc. the bills are starting to mount and you have yet to receive your first months rental.
Insurance and 3* cover should not total more than £400, if you can afford to buy a place in Turkey then you should be able to rustle up this amount.
Importantly I'm glad you brought up maintenance, this is an area that you should be aware off, the landlord (you) should make real cash provisions (which are tax deductable) for any major repairs, i.e new roof tiling, new windows etc. The good side is the council will get there people to do any major repairs at a cheaper cost than the yellow pages bridgade.
quote:
What of the accountants bills? yes they can save you money but cost you for this service. So unless you are an accountant or yourself fully conversant with the yearly tax demands and numerous forms it is not as plain sailing as first appears.
Flaming accountants, worst than solicitors, taking in consideration of above you should always seek professional advise on any personal money or financial matters. But if they are any good they should get your tax return down to zero and you can even offset there charge against any tax due.
Dipps :)
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well answered dipps
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Maybe I am wrong in my thinking but I thought that only one partner could offset the personal tax that being the one having lower rate bands of tax.
What of MIRAS? what are the benefits of opting out? if life does not work out abroad can one opt back in?
All I intend on doing is letting the general joe public see that it is not a matter of emptying the house signing a piece of paper and then living the life of Riley.
(This is getting to deep for me now, I need another coffee fix)
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Make me a coffee too please, actually cancel that, Kate Moss has just arrived..:D:D
No problem Loz your questions were very good for a TB person:D:D and i'm glad you asked even if its not for you there could be questions that others should know about, i myself am on a learning curve here as well, so it gave me some thinking to do.
PS Miras was abolished in April 2000, those were the days! another tax hikes by Gordon, (memo to self to leave UK before the economy really goes tits up in two years time).
dippz
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Dippey, thanks very much for taking the time & trouble for your postings on renting your house to a Housing Association. It's an avenue I had never previously considered or was aware of. I will be contacting my local council soon. TT. 8)
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Well all very informative, but we are selling ours.
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when we go eventually ,we will sell ours too, cannot be bothered with any hassle afterwards
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wouldnt want to put my lovely respected neighnours through the trauma either. Hope you are welcomed back with open arms by yours dippey - should you ever need to return.
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Unless my neighbours will pay me £60,000 every five years and also guarantee that when they move they will let me vet thier purchasers/my new neighbours- i doubt it. But the financial aspect is immaterial compared with some of the responses.
Interesting responses, i do hope that any person who has children or relations in lease or council care are not offended by some of the responses. Even those CB members or those reading as guests, living in council accomodation or have brought thier property thru the right to buy are not offended by these comments either.
Perhaps if these little english responders "not in my back yard", have a problem with people in lease/council houses, they could get together and put all these what they consider "infidels" in a bus, tube or skyscraper and blow them all up and just get rid of them. Or, the little english reponders can round them up, as done with others groups in the past, and just gas them.:(
Dipps
(edited owing to spelling/gramma!)
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Hi Dippey
a Good and well written thread....Thankyou. I thoroughly agree with your last article
Pete
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Hi All
I tried this option up here in the North West and got told the council or any local Housing Trusts are not interested in taking houses from private owners to rent out. Probably just up where I come from but that is the response I got otherwise I would have been doing exactly this. Instead I have had to sell my home.
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Why do you have to sell[?]......The local Council may not be interested ,But I am sure there is privte rental sector in the Northwest, this then always gives you a property to go back to if the need arose. :)
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Dipps,
I'd be more worried if you were coming to live near me in Turkey!! Imagine the headaches!!
Stoop:D
ps -- this sounds like a good alternative to just selling up - especially now the market is so slow and prices are stagnating. Go for it if you can.
pps -- I am not advising you as a qualified Financial Consultant! Don't come back to me for redress if it all goes t*ts up!
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What about all these people with money in their pension plans to invest in property next year, do you think that will help boost the market?
Teresa
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Hi teresa...... our dear friend Mr Brown abolished that last week in his budget
Pete
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Oh - missed that one, must have been doing something interesting. Thanks though.
Teresa
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Believe me tribaleder nobody could have checked out more options of what to do with their property than I did over 18 months I almost became expert at it.
I couldn't remortgage or do buy to let as the rent that was quoted by two property letting agencies for my property (refurbished)was not acceptable to the buy to let lenders. I tried the council who were not interested, I tried housing trusts who said no, I had it up for sale with 3 estate agencies it didn't sell and then I went to Auction and it didn't sell. Then just recently in November I found a sort of house e-bay on the internet and sold it on there.
Horses for courses I guess, I was sad to let it go but I was in such a situation it was no longer working for me and it had to go or it would have been removed from me.....