Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => Football => Topic started by: badger on July 19, 2010, 21:28:28 PM
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We Watched this excellent film last night.Superb acting by the main characters,even if Billy Bremner did resemble Rab C Nesbitt :) The looks on the Leeds board faces when old big head breezed in was brill.
Some very funny one liners, like when Derby signed Dave Mckay,
"He's got to be 150 years old,and he's broken more bones than Evil Knieval"- Having watched D M play many times I think he meant other players bones :)
Also Cloughie begging Peter Taylor to renew their partnership.
Just how factual it was maybe our LUFC members could give us their opinions. Johny Giles right hook was of course factual :)
As the closing credits said the achievements of the dream team might never be surpassed
The best manager to never manage England
Stoop no doubt ordered reserved tickets for the film premier 8)
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Geoff - agree totally - fascinating viewing if you were around at the time as we were :)
Ian
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Saw it at the flicks last year and dropped in and out of it last night. Very interesting but not sure how factual it was. I met Don a few times and saw many of his interviews and he wasn't really as arrogant as the film portrayed him. Clough obviously had a big problem with him though and it looks like it started with the FA Cup game.
I do remember that Keegan/Bremner bust up though. Classic!
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The interview that I think summed Clough up. Arrogant and out of his depth when he took on the Leeds job. At least he seemed to learn something and went on to become a great manager in the end. It was never going to happen at Leeds though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxsRt2yG8Es
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I think it showed the changing face of football even then.
Revie leaving shook the squad,
They were on the slide from then on.
Clough proved that his style of football was the future.
His triumph's in Europe outdoing Revie and Leeds.
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Damn! Forgot about it. Ah well, will look on iplayer.
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Michael Sheen is brilliant. he also plays Tony Blair in THE QUEEN and David Frost in FROST NiXON
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quote:
Originally posted by barry44544
I think it showed the changing face of football even then.
Revie leaving shook the squad,
They were on the slide from then on.
Clough proved that his style of football was the future.
His triumph's in Europe outdoing Revie and Leeds.
Just a really bad move by the board at Leeds. Clough had never hidden his hatred for Bremner and Hunter etc and in all honesty they should have appointed Giles.
As for Clough outdoing Revie in Europe. Yes he did but remember it was Leeds that paved the way by being only the second English club ever to reach the final and the first since manu in 1968. It could be argued that Leeds changed the way football was played in England (and not everything was good about that I know). This was followed by the 'golden era' of the late 70's/early 80's when Liverpool, Villa and Forest got to the finals and won the damn thing.
As for our game .. well ...
The match remains highly controversial to this day. Riots broke out after a disallowed Peter Lorimer goal and a series of controversial decisions by referee Michel Kitabdjian, later banned amidst allegations of match fixing in other competitions.
WE WAS ROBBED!!!!! :)
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In case you forgot :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wweh3ROiqWI
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How factual was it? I understand Johnny Giles took the author to court for defamation/libel and won! "It could be argued that Leeds changed the ways in which football was played" Perhaps it was more accurate to say the way football business was conducted - see Alan Ball's biography in which he tells of Revie paying him regular bribes to agree to move to Leeds. It perhaps explains why Clough in the film said "you can put all the medals you won in the bin, because you cheated".
I agree a very enjoyable film although very much shunned by the Clough family.
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Great film and a great insight to the life of a man that really was "The best manager England never had".
I drive past the City Ground every morning, it is a shame to see a once mighty and vibrant stadium in such a poor state of repair. I often try to imagine how things were when they were at the top of their game and how good the supporters felt as well.
Moving across the river for a moment, I was at pitch side at Meadow Lane this morning and admiring the ground improvements for the new season. Notts county celebrate 100 years playing at Meadow Lane this year and 2012 welcomes them to the grand old age of 150 years old, the worlds oldest football league club. :)
Brian Clough a true gentleman.
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Both Dave Mackay and Johnny Giles sued the filmakers for inaccuracy.
Dave Mackay had already moved to Swindon Town when Clough left and was not involved in turning the players against Taylor and Clough as was depicted in the film. Also, Giles looked as tall as Wor Jackie Charlton!
It also implied that Clough never actually started managing Brighton but I'm sure he was in charge for approx 32 matches before he came up north.
I still thought it was a fantastic film and demonstrated why Clough should never have been appointed in the first place however once they did, they should have have held their nerve and stuck with him. At least for a season!
I was at the Charity Shield final when Messrs Keegan and Bremner did their part striptease!
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It shows that no manager can get a team to play for him if they simply don't want to. In full disagreement with the Leeds fans on here I do think that given time and a more positive backing from the players, Clough could have built a legacy at Leeds too. But that was never going to be allowed to happen.
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But why would the players back him when he had slated them and told them to their faces they had won by cheating? Not the way to make friends and influence people. He was just an arrogant, abrasive person who thought he was untouchable. Both Derby and Leeds proved he wasn't.
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Players aren't employed to back people, they are paid to kick the ball around and score more goals than the other team. They put their own selfish feelings ahead of the results, which were quite appalling and to the players justifiable to make their point. That betrays the hard working loyal Leeds fans who had paid to watch that. Even Luton beat them at Elland Road, it must have been grim!
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Even Luton beat them at Elland Road, it must have been grim!
Grimmer than grimmer! ;)
The leeds players acted like prima donnas at the time, they were still being paid and happy to take the money whatever the rights and wrongs, they should have got on with the job at hand like every body else has to do in the workplace!
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Can't agree guys. If you had a boss like that I'm pretty sure a strike might be appropriate.
Just because they are employed by the club doesn't mean they don't have brains and feelings. Clough got it wrong and paid the price. Leeds went on to the European Cup Final under Jimmy Armfield. Now there is a true gent!
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And Revie slowly disappeared down the plughole :D
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Revie left Leeds at the top of his game. We all know now what a poison chalice the England job is. I think he did well ditching it for the Arab cash. Left his wife and kids well provided for at least.
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Well for certain it was a golden age for managers with character :)
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Very true - on that fine note - bed time ;-)
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I enjoyed the film,but i did not like the way Dave Mckay was portrayed,i've met him and he is a true gentleman.Cloughie did'nt need to be,as a forest fan we neede him to do exactly what he did do and he did it big time,thanks Brian.
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Got to admit he did a good job at Forest. Maybe it was the fact that Forest was a small club that made the difference. He wasn't expected to take them to the 1st Div title and European glory was he?
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Aha, there is the interesting thing. No doubt he and Taylor together had the skills required to take a smaller club to the top, but who has the skills to take a team already at their peak and leave a legacy? I doubt it was inexperience that caused Clough's downfall - could anyone have stepped into Revie's shoes and become a legend? At that time it was extremely unlikely. This also explains the YTV interview where Clough clearly wants to do something but can't think of anything to out-trump Revie other than doing the same "better". This was also all he had when he told the players to bin their medals. It wasn't the best aspiration to hold but as explained, what else could he aim for?
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Yep .. and I don't want to get into the 'big club - small club' argument but Forest have always been described as a nice little club and just maybe it was the lack of expectation that enabled him to become a legend there. No doubt he would have been at Derby as well if his ego hadn't got the better of him.
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There's no argument about that Stoop. At the time we are discussing, Leeds were indeed a "big club" :D
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Haha - still are mate - just not got a 'big team' ... yet
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Here we go again, still talking about the past, wise up guys, we,re crap, and allways have been since bobby robson nearly made it for us. lets get real, WE NEED AN ENGLISH MANAGER look at the last 8 teams in the world cup and who their managers were.
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quote:
Originally posted by desmartinson
Here we go again, still talking about the past, wise up guys, we,re crap, and allways have been since bobby robson nearly made it for us. lets get real, WE NEED AN ENGLISH MANAGER look at the last 8 teams in the world cup and who their managers were.
This thread is not about England 8)
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I think most of the Dutch side would have made it into the Leeds team !!
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quote:
Originally posted by barry44544
I think most of the Dutch side would have made it into the Leeds team !!
What that bunch of softies? No chance ;):D