Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: Highlander on October 01, 2015, 22:07:56 PM
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How much longer are we going to be expected to paid to have 30 Met police officers in Praia da Luz working on the Madeleine McCann case without, it would seem absolutely no progress.
Makes my blood boil.
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Here here.... !!
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Me too ???
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My heart goes out to the thousands of parents of missing children who have received none of
the support or back up this case has received. A " spokesperson " almost from day one. Private
jets to fly the parents round the world meeting world leaders and celebrities, worldwide publicity
and appeals. The whole thing disgusts me, is it a case of who you know.?
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And me makes me very cross indeed...
Kerry Needham ( mother of Ben Needham) think that is her name was in a magazine the other week saying that nowhere near the amount of money or time was ever spent on looking for Ben when he disappeared in Greece all those years ago...I have always kept up to date with her story as Ben is a similar age to my youngest son, i remember being horrified when it happened...
Personally i think it was time to stop the investigation a long time ago, sadly i dont think the McCanns will ever be reunited with their daughter...
Whilst it is very sad i stand by what i said in the beginning when Maddie first disappeared they should never have left her or any of those children to go out to dinner...And even more so when Kate McCann
appeared on a documentary or sumat a while back and said Maddie had been unwell the day she went missing i was gobsmacked when i heard that...
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I strongly suspect we wouldn't have seen so much activity if it had been manual worker from the east end of Glasgow and his wife involved - in fact I also strongly suspect that they'd have been the focus of the inquiry and at a minimum, charges relating to leaving their children unattended would have been brought.
Lets not forget what the assistant chief constable of Leicestershire Constabulary said in 2008:
"While one or both of them may be innocent, there is no clear evidence that eliminates them from involvement in Madeleine's disappearance."
JF
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The Government recently said £10.1 million had been spent so far and the Home Office have budgeted
for a further £2. million in 2016 in the search for Maddie. I believe that's without the millions donated by
the public. The McCann's were offered the Complex's babysitting services when they booked their holiday
but declined. They eventually returned to work but asked everyone else to keep looking.
I seemed to remember Ben Needham's family selling their house to fund their search, and it was something
like 12 years before British Police went to Kos to search. They were badly let down by their own country.
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Personally if I lost a child, l would NEVER stop looking, or want anyone else to stop. I'd do anything-ANYTHING. It's only natural. However and sadly, it is so long ago now and regardless of questionable circumstances, perhaps it is time to reduce these horrendous investigation costs. YES the McCanns did leave the children alone but in a place they were in a position to watch. Does that mean they don't deserve to know what has happened to their child? Will they be judged and punished forever? Their personal misery will be never ending. I do think that costs should be scaled down but I do believe the investigations only continue because they are close to findings which could destroy the core of this hideous and growing child abduction.
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In a place they were in a position to watch?
Obviously not, their child is gone.
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I don't believe they were in a position to watch over there child.
But my main point is that the resources devoted to this case are TOTALLY disproportionate.
As JohnF said the response would have been totally different had it been for example a single mother or "working class" couple.
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How many families in the UK whose children are missing have 30 detectives looking for them.
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Keith, what I meant is this,
As parents we all do our very, very best. Nobody deliberately puts their children in danger. Times have changed. We once lived in a house with a very long garden, we would often sit midway down it in the summer evenings with friends, 'watching the house' feeling that our children were safe in their beds. It wasn't until this tragedy that we realised what could have happened. We would not have heard or seen someone slipping in a front/side window of the house (even if we were in our lounge) It scares me and I still feel for them, it must be tortuous. I don't think there's much hope now for Madelaine but these abductions must be stopped. So sad.
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I have to agree with Karennina, I feel so sorry for Kerry Needham, nobody bothered to look for her little boy Ben, my heart goes out to her
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I agree, a wonderfully well put post Karen.
I remember us getting expat gossip for having our girls sleep on two comfy seats pushed together by a waiter in a restaurant while we enjoyed our evening. I am proud to say we never once left our kids and went out without them - whether or not they appeared to be 50m/100m away and I could see one of the four walls they were inside.
Lotty I also agree with you - anyone who thinks you can keep your eyes on little kids 24/7 should try having twins!! I do think however that down a long garden from your home and in the restaurant across the complex you are holidaying in are fundamentally different.
The part I found odd about the whole thing (apart from the obvious) was that here we had two professionals, likely to be working excessively long hours in the NHS, in a restaurant with chums while their children slept without parental supervision. At the time of this happening, I was working excessively long hours, and having to stay away from home several days a week.
Holidays were the time when I got to eat with my wife and children and boy did I treasure that. I am unaware of any friends that I would rather go to dinner with on holiday than my children.
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Bad parents
Meeting Point 2003
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/1239441_10200404909825368_1448653469_n.jpg?oh=e2d5c559c85efe53a74834effe80acf1&oe=56A4FFD2)
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In the 70's I worked at Pontins and the "babysitting service" was a chalet patrol consisting of a couple of teenagers on bikes with an adult supervising. They rode around outside the chalets listening for babies or children crying. If they heard anything they would come and put the chalet number up in the bars for parents to see.
Were the children locked in the chalets or were the doors unlocked so "chalet patrol" could go in and quieten the child?
Makes my insides turn over at what could have happened to these children but nobody thought anything of it then.
Our boys came with us when we went out on holiday and slept in their pushchair when they wanted to. We have done the same with our granddaughters and empathise when we see couples pushing sleep-resistant toddlers up the prom until they finally give in and the parents can have a well-earned rest :)
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I'm not going to apologise for saying this, I know that a lot will disagree but I am still firmly of the mind that the parents are more involved in the disapearance than they will admit.
No parent would stop actively looking no matter the cost if they believed the child to be alive. >:(
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Agreed in full (and no apology from me either)
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Me too - there is just something about Gerry McCann especially.
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Possibly why the police are still looking for evidence. Not so much in the search for Madeleine or her body, but more for enough evidence to charge one or both of the parents with murder.
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And me also and i also wont apologise!
What is the compo they are seeking of 360k from the Portugese police would that be paramount in your head to start a compnsation claim at a time like that, surely they would have more pressing/ demanding/time consuming legal stuff to take up their time...
They were doctors Kate McCann said on a documentary or reconstruction prog a while back that Maddie had not been well during the day of the night she disappeared, surely any responsible parent would not leave a I believe the mother said listless and pale child on its own particularly when you have a medical background, choking on her own vomit had she been sick menigitis all spring to mind...
They had an apartment with a cooker in surely they could have nipped to a shop bought some supplies changed their plans and cooked nobody would have to have starved...
I have been accused of being an over protective mother over the years but i would far rather that...
It was only last week i was asking my 23 year old does he have any recollections of a glass being pressed on him when he was young as in me checking for the meningitis rash thingy ( i forget what it is you do as had no need to practice it for a long time now!) if ever either of my sons were under the weather poorly, listless or not right it would be "Derek go get me a glass"! Would i have gone out for the night even with our regular babysitter would i hell!
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If you check out www.mccannfiles.com you can see why the police out there were suspicious from the start.
The McCann's version of events kept changing,and in the days after she went missing they played tennis for hours
each day. Could you.??
When we last discussed this I Googled the holiday complex and someone had filmed the walk from the table in the
Tapas Bar to the McCanns apartment door and posted it online. It was a route march in which you had to leave the
complex, walk up a road, back through a gate and up some steps to the apartment floor level. I have no opinion of
who the abductor / abductors might be but I'm sick of the McCann's playing the victims.
The victim is MADELEINE. For the price of a few bottles of red a babysitter could have done their job for them.!
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I agree with everything in your post kevin3.
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www.mccannfiles.com Scroll down left hand side and click on Apartment 5a. Someone's telling porkies.
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The official Twitter account behind the search for missing youngster Madeleine McCann has been shut down after being trolled by supporters of Ben Needham's family.
Kate and Gerry McCann, the parents of three-year-old Madeleine who disappeared in Portugal in 2007, decided to close the official Twitter account after receiving 'toxic content' and 'hatred'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3261469/McCanns-shut-official-Madeleine-Twitter-account-trolled-supporters-Ben-Needham-s-family.html
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I was in Waterstones today & noticed that rather than spend time looking for her missing Daughter, Kate McCann has written & had a book published. >:(
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It's a question of priorities Hamlet. It's just that theirs are out of kilter to most peoples. >:(
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For a long time I was consumed with everything I could read about Madeleine, the whole case disturbed and upset me a great deal ( I too had a young blond daughter and the thought of what might of been happening to her chilled me to the bone) and then it became apparent the press were playing us like pawns. I would be up for hours searching the net and if you go beyond the usual troll stuff you it was amazing what you could find ( lots of it has now been removed). Although I do think the Mccanns know more than we the public do, I don't think they killed or caused her accidently death. Time lines don't add up, here is a couple who didn't know Portugal, would of had to dispose of there daughters body within a small time scale and then control there feelings while the search began for which she wasn't found locally. But I do believe she was taken....for a reason and I think they ALL know this.
Gerry Mccann is not only a heart specialist he was a health advisor for the Government (I think it was for radiation but will have to do some research to confirm this, its been a long time.) His name was listed on the companys web site but it was very quickly removed once Madeleine was made a ward of court.
On the night Madeleine went missing its also suggested there was another member of their group who was quickly ushered out of Portugal by private jet, they worked for the Government. Hence the support they have received I guess.
Her plight has raised awareness of other missing children, child trafficing and abduction. New strategies and warning systems are now in place along with early warning systems when a child goes missing.
Despite whatever we think about this case the the only FACTS we have is that a child is still MISSING and until a body proves otherwise she still deserves to be look for, Madeleine is the victim and if it was my daughter I wouldn't care if the country went bankrupt looking for her, I would fight tooth and nail for her to be found.
markar
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Just to add it was Commare that Gerry Mccann was the medical advisor to the Government on radiation from nuclear power and its relation to childhood cancers. There was a major report on its findings in the weeks before madeleine went missing. Was he silenced???
markar
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There are many many gaps and inconsistencies in their accounts of what happened that night. Ok none of us really know what we would actually do if we returned to find our child missing. However running out of the apartment (leaving your other children) and shouting "she's been taken" seems odd to me, personally. I think my first thought would be "she's missing" and would spend every hour of every day looking for her. Something they have never done!
It's strange but from the moment I saw Gerry I thought he was a controlling individual. Something about him made me wonder if they were involved.
The more I read about this the more I wonder exactly what happened. I think it's much more complicated than a child abduction.
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Agree with pretty much all that Stoop. Why say 'she's been taken' when you find your child missing? Surely your first instinct would be that she'd wandered off and then move heaven and earth to find her! Have never been able to find a great deal of sympathy for them for leaving 3 very young children alone in that apartment just to have a meal out with friends, my sympathy lies with poor little Madeleine.
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Wasn't the shutter forced? That might explain why he thought she had been taken.
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If that's the case Scunner then yes it would go some way to explaining why she said that, but in my heart of hearts there is still so much of this tragic event that is not quite right.
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Definitely - even just reading here the other day that the parents played tennis in the days after their daughter went missing. How odd, we spent days looking for our bleedin cat, I would hate to know what I would be like if we lost our child. Certainly not finding any time to play tennis.
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Absolutely!
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If you read the item "Apartment 5a in the McCann Files that I posted earlier the shutters they said had been forced
were examined in minute detail and the fragile paint was untouched. Their stories changed in the first few hours.
They said the apartment was locked, but admitted a week later that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked
as it was less hassle to check the kids from that door than going round to the main door and unlocking it. And when
they were playing tennis in the following days their other two kids were put in a creche each day,all day.!
Having lost one child would you let your other kids out of your sight, in a strange country.? Not on your life mate.
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Don't forget there was lots of false information been feed by the press in the early days, I have just looked back on the report that says that Gerry had been arranging games of tennis in the days after Madeleine went missing, The same article in the Daily Mail also goes on to say hair and bodily fluids were found in Robert Murrats apartment!!. He was awarded about half a million in liable damages. As I said we were being played by the press, Madeleine stories sold papers.
What I really can't get my head around is this bit. They had government help from the off ( possibly because of Gerry s involvement with COMMARE, MI5 or 6 were also involved) so let's say they had support in disguising what really happened then why carry on with the whole charade years later. Most people have nothing positive to say about the mccans and feel as we are discussing now it's gone on too long, so why not fade away quietly,go get on with you life and it would fade from most people's memories, why would you keep dragging it up at every possible opportunity. Surely even MI5 could of persuaded them to put it to rest. THERE SIMPLY HAS TO BE MORE TO IT.
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Markar - I have read your posts with great interest but confess to being completely lost.
But I do believe she was taken....for a reason and I think they ALL know this.
Who are they and what is the reason
They had government help from the off ( possibly because of Gerry s involvement with COMMARE, MI5 or 6 were also involved).
I don't understand the implication. What help are you suggesting they received from the UK government.
If my daughter had been "abducted" I would have expected the British Consul to be involved as early on as possibe.
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I have just looked back on the report that says that Gerry had been arranging games of tennis in the days after Madeleine went missing.
Has that been categorically denied ?
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Hi highlands
I will answer you questions later when I am back at my computer ( it's just to long to do from my phone) I have found the whole thing case really interesting.
I am then away for a few days but I will come back to you though. Promise
Markar
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I've read lots of the report that Kevin has mentioned and the shutters were examined and not proven to be forced open. Logically she either wandered out of the front door herself, was abducted and taken out of the front door or was indeed already dead and had been moved by someone. It's highly unlikely she was passed through the window as there would have been DNA left at the scene. However we cannot rule out the Portuguese police messing up can we?
Read the reports and you will see how odd her parents acted after she went missing:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/
The First Reactions
Here we read the first reactions from Kate and Gerry's closest family and friends, immediately after they have been contacted individually with the news that Madeleine has been 'abducted'.
Note how consistent the stories are that an 'abductor' gained access to a locked apartment by breaking open the shutter on the bedroom window and escaping by the front door.
The story changed later when it became clear the shutters on the window had not been forced, were not damaged in any way and could only be opened from inside the apartment.
From that point, the McCanns became convinced that an 'abductor' had entered through 'open' patio doors and escaped through the open shuttered window.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, is eventually forced to admit that "There was no evidence of a break-in".
Gerry rings his sister, Trish Cameron, at 23:40 on 03 May 2007
Heart specialist Gerry McCann rang his sister Trish in Scotland after Maddy vanished from her cot placed between two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.
Trish revealed yesterday: "He was breaking his heart, saying 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'."
Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken."
"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull."
"They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her."
Link to Daily Mirror article containing this quote
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ok here goes
[/quote]eve she was taken....for a reason and I think they ALL know this.
[/quote]
They being the Mccanns, the tapas 7 and the Government collectively.
Did Gerry Mccann know something damaging about the health effects of nuclear power?
Also Gordon Browns brother Andrew works for a nuclear power company, is there a connection?
They had government help from the off ( possibly because of Gerry s involvement with COMMARE, MI5 or 6 were also involved).
I don't understand the implication. What help are you suggesting they received from the UK government.
If my daughter had been "abducted" I would have expected the British Consul to be involved as early on as possibe.
[/quote]
Help from The Government went beyond British consul, They were issued they own spokes person the role soon taken over by Clarrence Mitchell which still stands (I forget the name of the tempory one), Gerry was having regular telephone calls with Gordon Brown.
Esther Mcvey was an associate of Kate mccann, and I believe she was the one who got the ball rolling with sky news in the early hours of the 4th may.
I agree we would expect British consul help but do you think you or I would of got this much support?
I have tried to put things into prospective here and i just go round in circles.
Why are they STILL getting so much help and funding?
There are only 2 answers as far as I can reasonably see.
Mccanns are either Guilty of Madeleine's demise or not guilty.
If guilty, why weren't they suspected straight away? why did the government and other agencies so publicly get involved in supporting them. MI5/6, Scotland yard, Government would surely know after 7+ yrs and would of either charged the Mccanns or had a quiet very (firm) word to let it go, along the lines of.... we know what you did...it would be very embarrassing for everyone involved, red faces, costs ect, you got away with it now play it down, lay low and let it all fade away quietly. The public wont notice, majority are fed up to the back teeth of you anyway.
Not Guilty and really do not have any idea what happened to her.
Then I can understand why they carry on with the search and try and keep the case going and as high profile as possible.
But I agree there are too many inconsistancies and contradictions.
still mind boggling...the whole case is a minefield , if anyone is really interested then I would suggest searching through some forums but chose carefully, I am a member of one who simply wants justice for madeleine whoever is to blame, whatever the out come, not a site that just wants to troll and vent their anger at the mccanns.
markar
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I do believe there is more to the parents' involvement than has so far become apparent.
But the one simple question I would hope some of you might be able to answer for me is...
Bearing in mind that there is no doubt that the McCanns were extremely intelligent, professionally respected indivduals (as far up as to MI5 perhaps) - why would they come to the opinion that the best place to offload one of their own children would be abroad, in a place they know relatively little about, and stage the whole thing across a swimming pool from where the child is/was, while surrounded by 7 close friends?
Ok so it's a fairly long question.
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Bearing in mind that there is no doubt that the McCanns were extremely intelligent, professionally respected indivduals (as far up as to MI5 perhaps) - why would they come to the opinion that the best place to offload one of their own children would be abroad, in a place they know relatively little about, and stage the whole thing across a swimming pool from where the child is/was, while surrounded by 7 close friends?
You could argue, where better...
JF
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Yes that is what I am asking you to do ;)
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I just did ;)
JF
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Did Gerry Mccann know something damaging about the health effects of nuclear power?
Also Gordon Browns brother Andrew works for a nuclear power company, is there a connection?
Forgive me if I am being thicker than normal but why was that a reason for Madeleine's abduction ?
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Gerry McCann is still alive! Silencing him by taking his child is not ever likely to work!!
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Expect to be shot down in flames, but here goes, whatever the rights and wrongs of leaving your children alone in an apartment, someone knows what happened to that little girl. If either or both of the parents were involved (not a theory I subscribe to) I can only say that the grief and despair on the mothers face and the fact they have continued to try and keep their daughter's abduction in the public eye suggests they are happy to have everything about that dreadful night minutely examined. If I was in the slightest bit guilty I would have kept my head down. However I do agree there is absolutely no point in police from this country wasting time and money on something that will never be solved. I think it should be accepted that we can never know what happened to that little girl, very sad.
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I agree. The pain of loosing a much wanted child (They had IVF) is etched all over their faces. They did make a mistake leaving the children alone. A thing most people cannot understand and many will not forgive. A mistake that will live with them all their lives and this one mistake seems to be the reason so many people hate them and want to blame them for being involved in all sorts of unsubstantiated theories.
I don't believe for one minute they had anything do to with their daughter's disappearance. They would never have mounted such a long and expensive search for her if they had any involvement. The book Kate has written is to further fund the search. Kate is a broken women who, I am sure suffers every day for the mistake she made, however, this does not make her a murderer.
I hope, one day Kate and Gerry will have peace and a conclusion to their misery.
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What about the possibility they overdosed her by accident as I think I read somewhere they said she was unwell?
Maybe they sedated her so they could enjoy a drink and a meal in peace and it went wrong?
There are so many variables in this case but having read reports on what they have said over there years it seems they know she I'd dead.
So maybe they didn't choose Portugal Keith. Maybe it just happened and they hid the truth so that they could carry on with their life and work.
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Number of Police to be cut from 29 to 4.
Not before time in my opinion.
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Still enough for a 4-card game then.
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Who makes the tea though?
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They'll be having that in the clubhouse.
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It was reported in the press last week that two whistleblowers with inside knowledge
have named someone in signed affidavits that has taken £100,000 from the Maddie
fund of donations from the public, to fund "his" lifestyle, and this information has been
forwarded to the Police.The McCanns spokesman said the McCanns, who are directors
of the fund were grateful for the information and will co operate with the police.
So once again poor Maddie has been let down. Something else gone missing. >:( >:(