Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: sue mac on October 13, 2015, 14:59:34 PM
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We are owners on a complex in Ovacik. We have heard recently of two properties on our complex that have had debts outstanding against them and the properties have been taken off the owners by the banks as the loans are outstanding and unpaid. It is with much worry that we have now heard of a third property that has a debt outstanding against it. The current owners had no idea, and had not had any problems until they decided to check their tapu out. When the Tapu was checked, and the loan verified, the official in question stated that it was probable that most of the properties on the complex would have loans against them! However, we are aware of at least 8 or 9 properties that have sold and changed hands over the past ten years....how would it be possible to sell a property if there was an outstanding loan against it? Is this possible in Turkey!!??? I know anything goes out there but surely this is not possible. Thank you for any advice. Its a worrying time. We are visiting the area on Thursday and will be taking our Tapu out with us to have it checked at the "deeds offices" in Fethiye...
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However, we are aware of at least 8 or 9 properties that have sold and changed hands over the past ten years....how would it be possible to sell a property if there was an outstanding loan against it? Is this possible in Turkey!!???
Yes it is - the debt stays with the property. Saying that, a decent emlak or solicitor should pick up the fact there are debts at the time of purchase and notify the buyer accordingly. The buyer can them decide to either a) back off b) take on the debt or c) reduce the purchase price by the relevant amount.
The problem is when folks buy direct from a builder and allow the builders "solicitor" to handle the conveyancing. Its more common further round the coast in places like Altinkum where folks have found that the builder took out loans against their property, without their knowledge, and these debts ended up being transferred along with the property.
Until recently, the lengthy time between getting Military Permission and actually getting the deeds also allowed the unscrupulous to borrow against properties, very often after the customer had paid for it in full.
JF
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If buying a resale this is something your solicitor should check
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It is possible to sell with a huge debt on a property and it was one of the things that Cenk and I highlighted when people came up with the old "cut out the agent, go direct to the builder and save the 3%" - mind you, those people generally didn't listen and saved the 3%. Some subsequently lost their property but hey, 3% is 3%.
So how does it work...
1. Buyers go direct to developer (to save 3% wasted paying estate agent)
2. Contracts are agreed and builder takes power of attorney for purchaser to save them having to come over all the time
3. Builder takes out huge loan secured on the property he just sold, prior to changing ownership to purchaser's names
4. At deed office, deed man says "It is my duty to inform you that there is a humungous fecking debt secured on the property you are about to sign for on behalf of those British people.
5. Builder says "Yeah I know, it was me who got the loan - where do I sign the property out of my ownership and my life"
6. The property, and loan, transfer into the ownership and responsibility of the purchasers
So there you have it. If you buy through an independent agent this is pretty much impossible.
By the same token, if you didn't go direct to the builder without an agent - and give the builder PoA, you should be fine.
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By any chance a house built by the former mayor or his brother?
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The question I thought too :o
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I noticed some English people leaving a bank in Fethiye today and get into a car that had NG on the side. Supposedly New Generation, but maybe Nicholas Group? Think so....... So they are still operating, albeit under a different name, though same initials. You have to hand it to them, quite clever.
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yes, unfortunately...properties built by Nicholas.:(
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Did you buy direct from Nicholas - and who (if anyone) held your Power of Attorney?
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Yes we did...and their solicitor, somebody called Selva held our POA as far as I can remember. We received our tapu approx. 12 - 16 months later. The property completed on 25th September, 2005, ten years ago. Nicholas ceased to trade a number of years ago. Would this make the POA nul and void? (not that that would matter if they took the loan our prior to them ceasing to trade) Im flying out tomorrow, so will take my TAPU to the deeds office in Fethiye, which I understand is next to Migros. I will hopefully find out one way or another if there is a debt registered against the tapu or not. Thanks for help...any further information or advice greatly appreciated, if not for myself for anybody else who may also be about to find themselves in a similar predicament.
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Hope you find your Tapu is debt free Sue...
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Thanks Nichola....will update.
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Sue Mac, best thing you can do is just get the Tapu checked at the office. It takes minutes, and believe me after the stories we'd heard it took a great weight off our shoulders when we got a good response. Couldn't thank the Tapu office staff enough for not ruining our lives with bad news, and literally skipped out of the building ;D ;D It's amazing how many people fell for the "you need to give us Power of Attorney" line from the Builders.
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Sue you recently mentioned that you were slowly removing yourself from CBF and I think because you felt we can make people feel silly or small. That's fair enough, but I see it that we just tell it like it is. You have come with a problem and that again is what we have done. Anyone can come here and we will pitch in and help, even if the facts aren't to everyone's taste.
Just one thought over and above those so far. The people you mention who have successfully resold could not have done so if there was a debt secured on the property - so all those sales are positive news for you.
Caustic and to the point I may be Sue, but I hope with all my heart that your Tapu gets a clean bill of health next week. I know how stressful these situations are - how these people can sleep is beyond me. All I know is they do while the people they ripped off don't.
Please let us know what happens, I will send you positive vibes from across the bay.
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Just to advise you all that we visited tapu office on Thursday, and were advised, thankfully and to our major relief, that all is clear on our tapu. Unfortunately not the same for some neighbours of ours who only discovered last week that their villa was going up for auction yesterday! They had to dash out to turkey and have now visited the bank to try and stall the auction whilst they try and sort things out. Devastating for them. Please...if your property was built by a builder ( in our case NICHOLAS HOMES), THEN PLEASE CHECK YOUR TAPU AT THE OFFICE. Yes, it only took two minutes! Here is what you need to ask: "Tapularin uzerinde herangi bir ipotele veya bir sorun varmi? Bunu ogrenmek istiyorlar". Good luck to everybody.
Keith, I do find your comments extremely honest and to the point...and I am 99% of the time in agreement with you. I was not necessarily pointing the finger at you when I said what I said....I just think sometimes people on here can be a bit unnecessarily silly and rude, and offputting to others who may wish to ask a question but don't as they do not wish to feel ridiculed. and although this is my opinion, I know Im not the first person to say this.
But on the whole the forum is a fantastic source of advice and knowledge..and on the whole, the contributors are decent.....I would not remove myself from it as over the years I have benefited greatly from it. and I like to think that I can offer advice and knowledge too to others.
Onwards and upwards.... ;)
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Great news on the tapu sue mac.
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Really pleased for you - I am sure many of us can say "there but for the grace etc etc"
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thanks all. I am just so upset for the people I know that have been affected....and am wondering just how many people in the area are affected and as yet do not realise it:((((((
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Good news on the Tapu Sue Mac. After our elation on receiving the good news at the office, our thoughts also turned to wondering just how many people are affected by this scenario, and how the hell do they resolve it?? We've heard of it happening to plenty, but I doubt we've even heard about the majority. There are just so many properties in Hisaronu & Ovacik, and surrounding areas, that could be affected.
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I knew my positive vibes across the water would work Sue. I saw you had posted and it took me a couple of minutes to even read the outcome. So pleased for you - what a life changing moment that could have been waiting for one man to say yes or no.
I do hope they get what they deserve. I remember his English wife thinking she was a cut above the rest of us out there. I hope she realises that every last thing she buys, be it cars or a bag of chips, is paid for with money her and her husband stole.
Delighted for you and Cenk and I raised a glass to you guys in the Fish Market last night...
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lol, I was in the fish market myself on Saturday night :)) OK, getting back to this serious and devastating issue....our neighbour, who has found out her debt is huge, and is now in the process of giving up her life savings to cover half of the debt, and taking out a mortgage to cover the rest.....has asked me if I can help her get this as public as possible....by hightlighting it on here and seeking contacts of anybody else who may have been affected by Nicholas Homes. This was organised crime...and the more people there are affected and in this position now....the better the chances surely of fighting it and bringing justice? We CANNOT just sit back and see hundreds of property owners lose their villas and apartments because of these scumbags....Can you believe, he was sat in a car in Fethiye as my neighbour walked out of the bank on Monday, where she had gone to stall the auction of her villa!!! she and her husband attacked the car, he pleaded forgiveness, shouting that it was his company and not him responsible!! Unbelievable.......Can you suggest anything that we could to bring this out in the open? any local rags we could contact...anything at all.....tia.xx
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Very pleased Sue your Tapu has turned out ok.
Terrible for others that have found themselves in this situation...
Two properties on our complex resold over the last few years do i take this as a good sign andxleave well alone or go get mine checked what would other Nicholas owners advise doing please?
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Get it checked. Better to know
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I have wrote down what i need to ask can someone please tell me what the part in the offices is called that i need to go to? I want to be sure whichever way that i have been to the right place and got the right answer..thank you.
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Glad to hear you were ok Karrenina. x
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Thank you Sue Mac and thank you for making us all aware of this :(