Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Information and Services in Turkey Section => Cars, Bikes, Scooters, MOTs, Speeding... => Topic started by: hamilton on March 15, 2011, 12:23:02 PM
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Has there been a recent change regarding Goverment vehicle insurance requiring a Kimlik number? I have insured my car previously and it has not been a requirement, but it appears to be now?? Does it now mean that you cannot insure your vehicle if you do not have residency?? is there anyone that is aware of the recent change?
Regards
Tony
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We bought our car last year and had to have a kimlik number, fortunately the lady at the garage helped us to obtain this and we were told we could not purchase the vehicle without residency, and that was how she found the kimlik numberI am aware that things change very quickly here so perhaps someone who bought more recently could advise you[?]
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I have bought and sold a car in the past couple of weeks and on the back of the noters "contract of sale" 4 pages of my residence permit have been copied.
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You do not need residency to buy or sell a vehicle. Last year the Notary Offices changed their software without realising that there was no space to put a foreigners ID such as passport number or tax number. As a result they just told people to get residency as they could not be bothered to go through the long winded process to get around this. Notary No 2 knows the problem and how to get around this so go to them. This information was given by Koray Atak of Atak Services in Fethiye, he is generally correct in all things legal and if you have a problem then contact him, or his wife Gunes (pronounced Gunesh)who will guide you through the system.
We insured our car last October, no residency no problem. We have just returned from Bulgaria, driving there and back, got the insurance Green Card from our insurer no residency no problem. You do need residency for travel insurance (holiday type) and medical insurance with some companies.
Once again-you do not need residency to buy or sell motor vehicles!
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Thank you Eric for the info. I knew about the confusion regarding buying and selling vehicles and that had been cleared up.
The insurance company were adamant that they could not proceed with my insurance renewal without a kimlik number. I have used the same insurance company for 3 years, with no problem. I will try again and post the outcome.
thanks
tony
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Look at this thread Tony as same problem as yours but when he followed Eric's advice managed to get his insurance.....
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}39732
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Once again-you do not need residency to buy or sell motor vehicles!
Depends on the province but in Istanbul you MUST have residence full stop.
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My checks so far point towards a change and you do need a Kimlik number. There are others trying to sell vehicles and Atak have not been able to help? If anyone knows a way around it, other than what has already been posted could you please reply.
Tony
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I can confirm that you do NOT need residency to obtain goverment insurance. A change of insurance company sorted out the problem.
Thanky ou to those that responded trying too help.
Tony
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Told ya:D:D:D ;) ;) ;)
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}39732&whichpage=2
We actually popped into our own insurers today to check on this. She confirmed that you DO NOT need residence to insure your car.
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maybe regarding insurance but your quote saying you do not need residence to buy and sell vehicles is not accurate.
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Read the link
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I dont need to read the link. I am not saying your wrong but I am not saying your correct either as always, different rules apply in different regions of Turkey. Just saying your info is not accurate because here in Istanbul, they will not sell you a car without residence. how do I know this? because my company has helped many many people over the years with car purchases as its one of the services or company offers and it just simply cannot be done here in Istanbul, Ankara, Bursa or Izmir.
Its not the first time there are different rules for different things across the provinces as how to apply for a residence permit and what is needed is different from province to province which is annoying.
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Good thing we were answering the question on what applies here in Mugla then and not what applies in Istanbul...lol ;):D
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I have bought 2 cars and sold 1 with no residency and have bought both insurances with no problems.
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I havent got a government vehicle anyway
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We are insured with Axa Sigorta and have just renewed the policy this afternoon. Kasco and Traffic insurance with no problems at all. We do not have residency and where only asked for our tax number. All sorted for another year. Eric why dont people listen or read the threads.
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seconded
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:D
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Help please, tried to get traffic insurance today with whom we were insured with last year - surprise can't do it without residency, went to another place they could do it but 100ytl than last year (is that a sham)?, can anyone who has successful insured their car within the last couple of months email me with the name and directions to a broker as it runs out tomorrow! Thanks
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
I havent got a government vehicle anyway
Its called a Mobility Car in the uk ;)
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Traffic Insurance was due today - Ok so we left it a bit late to sort out! started to try to renew yesterday anyway it seems the problem was not with our residency but with a new computer system that kicked off on 1st April insurance now linked with the traffic police system, because our old policy did not include passport or tax number, this hasn't been required in the past (this we could have added with the previous agent before expiry date had we known)! Because the computer said NO - it wouldn't come up with showing I had a policy and all the details needed to be able to proceed with a renewal!! Anyway with paying a bit extra we got it sorted - didn't fancy a trip to the traffic police to see if we could add details to their system as we didn't have the time with the policy expirying today. One lesson learn't don't leave anything until the last minute!
Thanks to the lovely lady (Dina) in the renault garage who speaks excellent english, explained everything to us, i.e you don't need a residency number for insurance so long as you have passport and tax numbers, she deals with all insurance policies, car, home etc.
However, would be interesting to know whether anyone else experiences these problems because according to her - its one big headache for foreigners and Turks alike!
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Hi Eric can you tell me where No2 notary is located in Fethiye.Thanks Gary
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Opposite the Zabita Offices, behind those buildings, upstairs. Or, if you know where Mozaic Bahce is, stand there looking towards the sea, No 2 is upstairs in the buildings to the right of there about 30 metres.
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Thanks Eric.
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I can confirm Denise40 is correct. I went to my agent on Tuesday to renew my insurance. Afer 2.50 hours I blew. He kept ringing the insurers and screaming at them that I have been waiting for all this time. I took my Kimlik number (new nufus number), my passport number and my tax number. After another 2 hours (total in office 4 hours) my insurers could not process. He explained that the system had changed on the 1st April and yes no matter what they did the computer said "No". I had to come away, I was so exhausted, hungry and tired. He phoned me yesterday to come down so that he could copy my ownership documents. I could hear him on the phone and I gathered by what he said that he had tried to go with another insurance company. I have not heard anything today so it's in the hands of the Gods I guess. I said I have to drive my car for work and he assured me that if the police pulled me over for any reason I was to get them to phone him mmmmmmmmmm
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Sold our car to a Turkish friend last week, we were at no. 6 notary above Kent vets. before the car could be tranfered to another person it had to be put on the system, so car docs new T.C. no. from residency, tax no & passport details had to go to traffic police for updating there system, then same docs to the tax office for there system to be updated after lunch our car was on the notarys system all business was concluded sucessfully-eventualy!! The new 'TC' or Turkish Republic no's seem to be the problem the only way to find out yours is via the internet once you have it keep it safe for future transactions.
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Isn't technology great! I thought TC numbers are only given if you have residency? this didn't seem to be the problem, we were unable to get insurance based on our previous policy because the information now required wasn't uploaded when system went live this being passort or tax number so therefore it wasn't linked to the traffic police PC system, I would suggest to anyone with insurance they check with their agent to insure their details are with/linked to the system otherwise problems may arise when you need to renew. Basically we had to buy a new insurance policy as if we had never had previous policies so ended up paying extra for higher premium - had we not left it until the day of renewal we may had sorted something out.
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We are selling our car, and need to know if anybody has been able to do it without residency. We do have residency but the buyer does not, though he will be applying. As Erik says the No. 2 Noter does not require a residency kimlik number - is this the case now, or not - if anyone has made a recent sale or purchase using No 2 Noter, what was the outcome? Many thanks in hopeful advance :-)
quote:
Originally posted by Eric[?]
Told ya:D:D:D ;) ;) ;)
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}39732&whichpage=2
We actually popped into our own insurers today to check on this. She confirmed that you DO NOT need residence to insure your car.
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I sold my car last year. First of all I found Notaire 2 incredibly unhelpful, insisting that you DID need residency to buy/sell. they just couldn't be bothered to do the extra bit of work required.
Bought residency to sell car but then found out that it wasn't required[:(!] What a waste of money that was[:(!]
There is another Notaire, No. 5, I think, that are very helpful. They are very close to No.2, difficult to explain but down the one way street, past fish market, heading towards PTT. The insurance office street. They are up some stairs in a little shopping arcade.
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There was a change in the law during May last year.You need residency to sell legally apparently.But then again this is TIT(this is Turkey)!
If you are caught driving your car and do not have a residence permit the police can impound your car.You may also be http://www.noternet.org/umumi/arac-satis-ve-devirlerinde-esas-alinacak-adresler/fined.
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No that may be wrong. If you do not have a KPS number you can get a temporary one and use the address on that.
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Thanks, peecee...I will try this one :-) Its not the end of the world if we can't finalise the sale before the buyer gets residency, but we'll give it a good try. Especially as some say it is not necessary at all!?
quote:
Originally posted by peecee
I sold my car last year. First of all I found Notaire 2 incredibly unhelpful, insisting that you DID need residency to buy/sell. they just couldn't be bothered to do the extra bit of work required.
Bought residency to sell car but then found out that it wasn't required[:(!] What a waste of money that was[:(!]
There is another Notaire, No. 5, I think, that are very helpful. They are very close to No.2, difficult to explain but down the one way street, past fish market, heading towards PTT. The insurance office street. They are up some stairs in a little shopping arcade.
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Hi Daffodil,
Err, how do you get hold of a temporary KPS number? Thanks for your input.
quote:
Originally posted by Daffodil
No that may be wrong. If you do not have a KPS number you can get a temporary one and use the address on that.
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I am not a solicitor or qualified to give definite advice but what I think you do is go to the local Muhtar and get a form from him which registers your address. The form is a KONUTTA KALANLARAAIT KIMLIK BILDIRME BELGES (Form 5). You can take this with you to the Nufus office and get a temporary number from there.The notary can use this number when selling the car. It all seems up in the air to me and maybe the British Consul at Izmir would be a good place to contact for what is exactly correct. From England 0090 232 463151.
To obtain the form 5 you will need to provide information like a rental agreement or tapu and photographs to the Muhtar. Of course the address on your vehicle documents should be the ones you are registered at.
Good luck!
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To get your Turkish Identity number take your resident permit with you and go to the Kaymakamlik in Fethiye (situated between Migros and the PTT) and as Daffodil says go to the Nufus office.
The Nufus office is just inside the door on the ground floor. There is a sign on the wall to the left of the door. The guy just inside the door will look you up on the computer and issue you with your ID number and give you the information on a piece of paper.
You then take the bit of paper given to the office a little further down the corridor Room no3 (above the door) and this information will be entered into the system.
You will need this ID number to take out or renew car/bike insurance :)
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Daffodil and Nichola,
It is very kind of both of you to help, much appreciated! We, the sellers, already have residency, but the buyer does not. He has asked us if we can find out if it is absolutely necessary to have residency to buy our car, as obviously he'd rather be able to have the car asap. He is still in the UK until later in the month. So it looks like he will have to follow the procedure you outlined, not us, then we will all be able to go to the Noter and carry on with the sale. Either that, or apply for his residency, which he intends to do anyway, and wait the 3 weeks or so to get it and the kimlik number. Many thanks, guys, you have cleared up much of the confusion in my head :D
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http://www.ceydayg.av.tr/articles/how-amendments-to-turkey-s-highway-traffic-regulations-affect-non-turkish-citizens-who-wish-to-buy-or-sell-a-car-in-turkey Good luck! :)It is worth reading this article as a person on a tourist visa makes a statement to the notary and does not need a KPS number.
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For those who never read peoples links ;)
The laws regarding buying or selling a vehicle in Turkey were amended on the last day of 2009. Before then the vendor and purchaser declared their respective addresses on the purchase agreement, and a notary public then proceeded with the transaction. Since January 5, 2010, the notary public is required to take the address of the parties as recorded on the KPS system, irregardless of whether this is the actual current residence of either party.
The Kimlik Paylasim Sistem, or KPS for short, is an ‘Identity Sharing System' enshrined in law in 2008. Its purpose is to establish an address-based registry of the Turkish population. This system takes as its starting point the citizen identity number issued to each Turkish citizen. Non-Turkish citizens do not have a KPS registered address, nor do they have a Turkish identity number.
These laws have had an unfortunate unintended consequence for non-Turkish citizens who wish to buy or sell a vehicle in Turkey. Some notary publics have incorrectly taken the confluence of this legislation to mean that non-Turkish citizens may neither buy nor sell vehicles in Turkey. This is an obvious injustice in law, and one which is not a correct interpretation of the legislation.
Non-Turkish citizens who hold residence permits for a minimum of six months will have been given a temporary Turkish identification number. Consequently, they would be registered with the KPS system. The problems arise for those non-Turkish citizens who do not hold this residence permit for whatever reason. In this case, the notary public is required to take as their address that given by statement to them. In other words, a non-Turkish citizen who has entered the country on a tourist or other short stay visa may legally give the address of their choice for purposes of this transaction. There is no requirement for inclusion in the KPS system, as it does not apply to these individuals.
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I was quite interested in some of the issues raised in this topic about what has been happening regarding buying selling cars, for example the need or not for a resident permit etc.
I asked Dogan who is no expert but he said that the law is the law everywhere in Turkey (unlike for example the States which may have different laws in different States) so there shouldn't be different systems here in Mugla as opposed to say Istanbul.
I mention this ony because sometimes loop holes or getting around the system may seem a good idea or conveniant at the time but in the event something happened at a later date it might cause problems.
I guess like the UK ignorance is not a defence that will wash with the authorities.
I did find this topic a bit confusing to be honest.
As I understand it you do need a resident permit to purchase a vehicle - Eric you posted as I was still writing not sure how if at all this has on bearing on what I am saying.
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OMG - its no wonder confusion reigns, with some Notaries insisting on a residency and others not...isn't there one person or head of department who has authority over them, who is able to make sure all Notaries are informed as to what is the law on this and what is not. Our friend, a sworn Translator, phoned the police for clarification on this, she was told that foreigners need to have residency in order to buy or sell a car in Turkey. If thats so, why are they not making sure all Notaries have the same information?. People are contributing a lot of info here on the Forum, but there is still different opinions. Some say definitely yes to residency, others say definitely not. I think we need absolute clarification one way or the other, and everyone should act accordingly. We have no wish to break the law, or get around it; we just want to know what actually IS the law.
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Spoke to Koray Atak today regarding this, yet again. He reiterated that there has not been a change in the law that requires residence to either buy or sell a car, there has been a change in the requirements for recording such a sale. As in the article above, the authorities in their infinate wisdom decided to ask for a persons kimlik number on the computer system, forgetting that foreigners can buy and sell but do not necessarily have a kimlik number. The easiest way around this, according to them, was to tell everyone to get residency and then their kimlik number to make it easier for the authorities. A similar cock up has affected SOME insurance companies/agents but not all. So basically it is a software problem in that there is no slot to put a foreigners ID such as passport number or tax number. This has not been resolved yet.
So, foreigners have 2 choices;
1. Contact Koray Atak of Atack Services (ataktranslationatgmaildotcom) who will sort you out ;)
1. If you want to do it yourself get a 1 year residency (£50 approx), then your kimlik number and away you go.
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Well I'm total perplexed! we got car insurance in May without residency - without TC number - accepted using passport and tax number - however we couldn't renew our previous policy because of the new (April) link up with Traffic Police and Insurance companies because the previous policy was lacking details that hadn't been uploaded and not previously required.
Joy oh joy!!
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Do you think that perhaps there is confusion between registering your address and applying for residency? If you are asking to insure a car it seems reasonable to be asked for proof of an address and obtaining an accommodation certificate in case of an accident.The number given at the Nufus office is proof you have registered your address.
The accommodation certificate (KONUTTA LANLARAAIT KIMLIK BILDIRME BELGESI FORM 5) simply is that, not residency.
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Hi,
Just sold our second-hand car to a foreign buyer who has no residency. The Notary said, no residency, no sell...so I asked them to check this; they called the Traffic Police, who confirmed foriegners do NOT need residency to buy a second-hand car, only a new one! So the sale has now gone through .:D
quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Spoke to Koray Atak today regarding this, yet again. He reiterated that there has not been a change in the law that requires residence to either buy or sell a car, there has been a change in the requirements for recording such a sale. As in the article above, the authorities in their infinate wisdom decided to ask for a persons kimlik number on the computer system, forgetting that foreigners can buy and sell but do not necessarily have a kimlik number. The easiest way around this, according to them, was to tell everyone to get residency and then their kimlik number to make it easier for the authorities. A similar cock up has affected SOME insurance companies/agents but not all. So basically it is a software problem in that there is no slot to put a foreigners ID such as passport number or tax number. This has not been resolved yet.
So, foreigners have 2 choices;
1. Contact Koray Atak of Atack Services (ataktranslationatgmaildotcom) who will sort you out ;)
1. If you want to do it yourself get a 1 year residency (£50 approx), then your kimlik number and away you go.
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well that clears that up then - nice one :D
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Nice one indeed. Give it a month 'though and someone else will be asking the same question and we will go through this all again ;): :):D[xx(]
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In fairness I think those of us who are doing this stuff for the first time need to clarify the up to date situation, as rules and regulations clearly change all the time in Turkey and it's not any help reading some of the older posts. But I'm sure that you 'old hands' could find us irritating when of course we are asking questions that have been on before.
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Hi Jacqki,
All you need to remember, is if the Notary says no, just ask them to call the traffic Police in your area to confirm what the situation is. The rules should apply to all of Turkey - I have no idea if they do or don't and if they don't, why not. It never hurts to ask, not just take no for an answer. By the way, I'm not an old hand, its the first time we have sold a car.
Cheers :)
quote:
Originally posted by jacqki
In fairness I think those of us who are doing this stuff for the first time need to clarify the up to date situation, as rules and regulations clearly change all the time in Turkey and it's not any help reading some of the older posts. But I'm sure that you 'old hands' could find us irritating when of course we are asking questions that have been on before.
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Why does the rule differ between an old car and a new car?
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Sorry, they didn't tell us...we were just so pleased to get a result that we forgot to ask... :) does anyone know? I can't think of a particular reason why not...
quote:
Originally posted by Daffodil
Why does the rule differ between an old car and a new car?
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Thanks bunny4jeff I was just referring to Eric's post where he clearly is bored by us newbys asking questions that have been on the forum before and trying to explain why we do that.