Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => The Debating Chamber => Topic started by: Highlander on December 30, 2015, 22:16:39 PM
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Is it right that the head of the Environment Agency in England is being criticised for not curtailing his holiday earlier.
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Erm
Yes
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Yes it is right John and if I was him I too would NOT have curtailed my holiday because what the feck difference could one body make ?
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confused.com
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The Head of the Environment agency is paid approximately £250.000 to fulfill the purpose of the Agency which is: " "to protect or enhance the environment, taken as a whole ... Protection of the environment relates to threats such as flood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood) and pollution." If he doesn't make any difference why the hell are we paying him a quarter of a million quid a year? He should be on duty.
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Of course he should have returned. Still based on this years new year honours list it shouldn't stop him getting some gong or enhanced gong in a year or two. Three cheers for the British Honours system, KGBs allround!!
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Defra is the government department that has overall national responsibility for policy on flood and coastal erosion risk management, and provides funding for flood risk management authorities through grants to the Environment Agency and local authorities.
If I were the head of the Environment Agency who had had to deal with repeated cuts to my budgets over the preceding years, cuts to local authority budgets who too have responsibility, who had all the advice about the flood risks to the public, businesses, towns and the environment ignored by the government, who had watched while vast subsidies were paid to the grouse shooting estate owners and friends of those in government and to farmers to clear vast swathes of the countryside of its trees and hedgerows I think I would have stayed exactly where I was and let those ultimately responsible for the disastrous consequences take the flack!
Of course of George Osborne the Chancellor responsible for ongoing cuts in funding there has been neither sight nor sound. David Cameron who heads the party responsible for the ideological austerity cuts on public services that have been imposed on the British people of which the Environment Agency is just one, to pay through the nose for those in the financial sector and banks who jeopardized the economic security of the British people with impunity, didn't even have the balls to face the wrath of people affected by the floods. He confined his recent visit to the affected areas to only meeting with those from the armed services who would be constrained by protocol from expressing opinions.
Whether or not the head of the Environment Agency stayed on holiday is just a red herring to detract from those really responsible for ensuring the people are protected.
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Meanwhile 'our' Jezz turns up in York today, is asked why it's taken him so long to show his smug face and he answers "I didn't want to get in the way"
What he really means his it's taken him almost a week and he still can't find a link to the flooding and bombing Syria!
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It wouldn't have happened under Labour would it.?? They had 13 years unopposed to sort out our rivers but silted
them up with the £billions they poured down the drain. ;) ;)
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I would expect nothing less from Tory apologists to try and detract from the issue with irrelevancies and attempt to shift the blame. There is only so long you can blame previous governments and I think six years is well past that used by date.
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So rivers only take 6 years to silt up.? And who says i'm a Tory. I WAS a born and bred Labour supporter and member
until Blair and his lies cured me of that. If only he could have done for our economy what he's done for his bank balances. ;)
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If I were the head of the Environment Agency who had had to deal with repeated cuts to my budgets over the preceding years ... I think I would have stayed exactly where I was.
I see the point you are making Nicola and in other circumstances might agree. But Sir James Bevan, the Head (CEO) of the Environment Agency only took over the job on 30 November 2015 - just a month ago. Surely he had some idea what he was taking on? And why he was being rewarded so handsomely for doing it.
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It's entirely possible that the holiday was booked during his previous employment and that his new employers agreed to honour that arrangement when they took him on.
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And it is entirely possible to curtail your holiday (whenever it was booked) when there is a major disaster concerning a matter for which you have senior executive responsibility.
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In the last 5 years the UK has given £ 1,5 billion in aid to India. That's the same India that has a space program to get to Mars,
the same India that has just signed up a £multi billion deal with China for a Bullet train system, and a £multi billion deal with
Russia to build Nuclear Power Stations and provide India with a new Missile System.
I bet the people affected by these and previous floods would like to know how much was spent on the UK's flood defence's
during those 5 years.?
I seem to remember the EU giving Turkey, a non member, money to carry out flood and drainage works, some of which was
supposedly spent in the Fethiye / Calis area's. I wonder how much the EU has given the UK, and it's flood victims.??
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The UK doesn't claim these kind of benefits from the EU. This is because Maggie's Magical Rebate had a clause in it which stated that when Britain got EU special cause grant it has to top it up to the full amount it would have been without the rebate (e.g. a 2/3rds rebate means that when the EU chips in 1 million the UK tops it up by 2 million). Since the Treasury isn't in the business of helping out ordinary citizens it doesn't agree any UK bids to the EU. Just ask the people in Cornwall who qualify for oppressed area status but cannot apply for EU help because HM Gov forbids it.
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If I were the head of the Environment Agency who had had to deal with repeated cuts to my budgets over the preceding years ... I think I would have stayed exactly where I was.
I see the point you are making Nicola and in other circumstances might agree. But Sir James Bevan, the Head (CEO) of the Environment Agency only took over the job on 30 November 2015 - just a month ago. Surely he had some idea what he was taking on? And why he was being rewarded so handsomely for doing it.
Still think it is a red herring to detract from those actually responsible for the havoc the floods have caused and the devastated lives and livelihoods.
In post a month, well paid or not he is not personally responsible and can hardly be called to account, and if he turned up what difference would it make. But the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and this Tory government are responsible for the decreased spending on flood defenses. it's not to say that there wouldn't have been floods if Labour had continued in office but the fact of the matter is that they were increasing spending and the others have decreased it is not unreasonable to conclude that the consequences could have been less severe.
That is something worth talking about because it is just one public service of many that have taken a hit over the past six years, public services which should be about providing for and protection the people, just this one is more visible and in your face than some of the others!
From the Office for National Statistics - year on year increased spending under Labour, year on year decreasing expenditure under the coalition and Tory government. Not sure why it stops at 2013 but we all know there have been more cuts in the last couple of years. Also worth noting how very little was being spent when Labour took office in 1997...
Figure 12.1: Environmental protection expenditure by government, 1997 to 2013
United Kingdom
(http://s11.postimg.org/7e71x0fzj/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7e71x0fzj/)
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It seems our wonderful EU have most to answer to regarding river dredging and deeming any silt hazardous waste.
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I think it is a bit more complicated than that, and wasn't it the UK Environment Agency working in Brussels that pioneered the policy!! We would have had this river dredging policy with or without the EU!
Two excellent articles by George Monbiot explain more...
"Maize is being grown in Britain not to feed people, but to feed livestock and, increasingly, the biofuel business. This false solution to climate change will make the impacts of climate change much worse, by reducing the land's capacity to hold water."
"The Labour government in 2005 it published a devastating catalogue of the impacts of changes in land use. As well as the loss of fertility from the land and the poisoning of watercourses, it warned, "increased run-off and sediment deposition can also increase flood hazard in rivers". Maize, it warned, is a particular problem because the soil stays bare before and after the crop is harvested, without the stubble or weeds required to bind it. "Wherever possible," it urged, "avoid growing forage maize on high and very high erosion risk areas."
The Labour government turned this advice into conditions attached to farm subsidies. Ground cover crops should be sown under the maize and the land should be ploughed, then resown with winter cover plants within 10 days of harvesting, to prevent water from sheeting off. So why isn't this happening?
Because the current government dropped the conditions. Sorry, not just dropped them. It issued – wait for it – a specific exemption for maize cultivation from all soil conservation measures."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/farmers-uk-flood-maize-soil-protection
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2014/mar/14/uk-ban-maize-biogas
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" The Cuts " some people are are blaming on the Tories/Coalition were caused by the previous Chancellor leaving us in the Brown stuff.
Borrowing money he couldn't repay in order to buy votes and waste on crackpot schemes. In Labours 13 years in power did they sort
out the NHS.? Sort out crime and the causes of crime.? Sort out Education, education, education.? Do you remember Blair's mantra's.?
And when the EU imposed their anti dredging legislation on the UK in 2000, which political party was in power.? Short selective memory's.
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I think you will find that the economy under Labour was managed far better...
Yes there was the world wide economic crisis caused by the banks at the end of their last term in office which some people still see to think was the sole fault of Brown which required an increase in spending to bail out the banks but I think you will find the evidence speaks for itself.
(http://s23.postimg.org/56bonvsif/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/56bonvsif/)
Considering the billions being cut in public service funding I'd like to know exactly what all this extra spending by the Tories is actually being spent on.
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Iv'e run my own business for over thirty years and know that if you have no money you stop spending.
Labour always had access to someone else's money so couldn't see the need to stop spending it.
Gordon Brown's mindset was " We can't be broke, we've still got some Cheque's in the Cheque book "
He was wrong.!!
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I'd be really interested to know how to set up a business without making any investment whatsoever. I've had two successful businesses and both required start up and ongoing investment.
I believe the British people, or any people anywhere, should be invested in and it makes good business sense too. After all what is government for if it isn't about investing in the countries greatest asset, the people.
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So why do you support a party that is traditionally anti business/ anti profit, and has created a benefit dependent society.?
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http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/energy-environment/we-really-need-to-get-this-story-about-rivers-and-flooding-straight/
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Does the Adam Smith Institute have a grudge against the English language? I thought they were merely ignorant of the writings of Adam Smith which they seem either not to have read or to have completely misunderstood. Still, they are happy splashing in their little puddle, I suppose.
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Does the Adam Smith Institute have a grudge against the English language? I thought they were merely ignorant of the writings of Adam Smith which they seem either not to have read or to have completely misunderstood. Still, they are happy splashing in their little puddle, I suppose.
beats reading the same anti - everything except left wing crap in the Guardian though ;)
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I think you will find that the economy under Labour was managed far better...
Yes there was the world wide economic crisis caused by the banks at the end of their last term in office which some people still see to think was the sole fault of Brown which required an increase in spending to bail out the banks but I think you will find the evidence speaks for itself.
(http://s23.postimg.org/56bonvsif/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/56bonvsif/)
Considering the billions being cut in public service funding I'd like to know exactly what all this extra spending by the Tories is actually being spent on.
Who was it that was responsible for selling the country's gold reserves at the bottom of the market?
Who in effect deregulated the banks?
Gordon Brown that's who.
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So how well do you think Gideon is doing?
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So how well do you think Gideon is doing?
Seeing as he inherited a fairly rubbish situation back in 2010. Who can forget the note in the treasury drawer stating there was no money left as the previous government had spent it?
Basically the country had the equivalent several credit cards maxed out and many loans from the likes of Wonga. Paying these back is not the work of a moment, there are many things that could have been done better, but there does come a point when someone has to say enough. It is not easy and it is not pleasant but it has to be done.
That said tax breaks and evasion for large corporations needs to be sorted out and quickly. Some of these though were about when Brown was Chancellor why were they not so important then?
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Done to bail out the banks... Do you think the banks should have been allowed to fail!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/thomaspascoe/100018367/revealed-why-gordon-brown-sold-britains-gold-at-a-knock-down-price/
As for selling off the every single one of the countries assets I believe that was the Tories - paid for and owned by the tax payer yet sold off for a one time receipt losing us billions in revenues year in and year out ever since.
British Aerospace and Cable & Wireless, British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, Jaguar, British Telecom, the remainder of Cable & Wireless and British Aerospace, Britoil and British Gas, British Coal, as well as electricity generating companies Powergen and National Power, and British Rail, Royal Mail (at a loss), the National Parks, the NHS is being sold piece by piece...
In 2012 George Osborne began a rapid sell-off of government-owned stocks and shares and they are set to deliver the biggest ever sale of publicly owned corporate and financial assets in 2015-16... and yet they are still managing as my FACTUAL graph above shows to get us deeper and deeper into debt! Amazing incompetence at its best!
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Gordon Brown sold the gold in 1990 and 2002 the banking crisis started in 2007.
The article also states; "Responsibility is evaded by all bar those on whose shoulders it ought to rest. The gold panic of 1999 was expensively paid for by the British public. The one thing politicians ought to have bought with that money was a lesson in the structural restraints which needed to be placed on banks now that the principle that they were ultimately public liabilities had been established"
The organisations you mention, with the exception of Royal Mail and the National Parks were arguably being returned to their rightful owners i.e institutional and private shreholders as they had been nationalised by the government in the first place.
The creeping privatisation of the NHS was begun in 2006 when Andy Burnham was health secretary.
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MadMart, sorry (for you) if I am wrong :-\ , but I really can't believe that you actually believe the ultra rightwing cant you have written.
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Tell you what. I'll lay bets Nichola doesn't but it was copied and pasted from her link!
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I'm just watching the latest resignations from the Labour Shadow Cabinet on Sky News, with more expected to follow.
What a sad spectacle to see a party that was formed for all the right reasons being reduced to this. Blair started the slide
downhill with his New Labour hijacking and Corbyn will finish the job. If they move any further to the left they'll fall off the page. :(
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On topic, it's sad to see that now the floods have receded the plight of those affected has gone from the headlines and front pages.
My oldest son has his own business carrying out works to fire/ flood damaged properties and sees at first hand the heartbreak and
despair of the residents affected. A couple of years ago he carried out works on flooded properties in Carlisle and North Wales and
16 / 18 months later people were still having to live in caravans out the front of their homes, faced many obstacles from insurers and
the stench remains in the homes for 12 months or more. In 2002 the EU set up the Solidarity Fund to help member states in times of
disasters. The UK has only claimed once, in 2007 they received £ 120 million for floods that year. Italy has received £1 billion for
Earthquakes. !! " Ask and ye shall receive". A government spokesman said they were considering "all forms of support for those
affected by the floods" Don't Consider, Demand.
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How to pay for flood protection. The two leading members of the Environment Agency came up with their solution yesterday at a Commons' committee hearing: people should pay for their own flood defences!
The committee is asking about who pays for local drainage boards' work.
Sir James Bevan says "it's absolutely right local people make choices that affect them" and choose what they are prepared to fund.
Sir Philip Dilley says: "I do think it would be a good idea if more of this money was collected locally to deal with flooding."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/flooding/12084973/Flooding-Environment-Agency-chiefs-face-MPs-questions.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/flooding/12084973/Flooding-Environment-Agency-chiefs-face-MPs-questions.html)
That gives a good clue as to what qualifications these two people have to be appointed by Central Government.
Kevin, I think that BBC Five Live has a special day focussing on the aftermath of the floods starting at 11.00am today.
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Thanks Colwyn, i'll try and catch some of it later. The two gentlemen you mention made an excellent case for the abolition of their
employment contracts along with most of their colleagues, if not the whole bleedin' lot. Their belated offer to let the local community
select local flood defence needs should go hand in hand with the local communities right to select Environment Agency staff based
on their job performances. My son and his team are in Carlisle now and are on first name terms with other crews and local residents,
such are their frequent attendances over the years. It's a total disgrace. >:( >:(
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If you are going to listen on iPlayer it actually started at 10.00am. As well as the justifiable local anger and the anticipated official excuse-mongering I thought there was a lot of thoughtful and constructive discussion about the future of flood management.
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I saw a bit on BBC 1 News earlier regarding the flooding of peat bogs, flooding farmers arable land (by agreement,and no doubt subsidies)
making small natural dams to hold back flood water, but I think the Beavers got there first. After years of paying thousands of jobsworths
hundreds of millions of pounds to achieve very little of use to humans, serious and importantly local discussions are finally taking place.
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Agreed and planning permission given back in 2007. Still to go ahead according to Persimmon Homes. Madness!
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14188092.Controversial_York_housing_plans_press_ahead_in_2016_despite_flooding/?ref=mr&lp=4
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Following an onslaught and severe reprimand from members of CBF, Sir Phillip Dilley, Environment Agency Chairman has resigned.
Apart from his abject failure to carry out his duties he has been caught out telling lies about his holiday, holiday home, and his wife's
background. Now lets hope his fellow board members follow suit.