Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: Clioman2 on June 17, 2009, 18:09:54 PM
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has the number of these increased this year or is it my imagination? We got back to the UK on Tuesday but during our stay in Calis were a little put out at the number of them. In addition to the usual couple of rose sellers there were women squatting on each of the wooden pedestrian bridges holding babies and begging. We were also approached whilst dining by two young boys holding their hands out and whining rather than talking. The number of rose sellers looks to have tripled since last June too and to have three approach you in ten minutes is a bit annoying. These people arrived in a group most nights and the only time we saw adult males they were drunk and carrying cans of beer. They had one of the women approach a shop with a bag of shopping that we assumed they were claiming to have bought earlier. The shopkeeper soon saw her off and pointed her to the mini-market across the road. She didn't have much luck there either. One of the drunks got a little niggly but after the first shopkeeper calmed him down he and his mate jumped on a moped and scooted off. Yes I know we all have a living to make but do they all have to descend on Calis?
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Hi Clioman
Welcome to CBF 8)
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Cheers Crabbit, had a cracking time as usual during our two weeks. We've been coming since 1996 and have seen a few changes but it's still our favourite in Turkey. We managed to track down Falcon, the famed restaurant puller-inner, to his new Estate Agents across from Josephs. Hope it's a success for him.
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no theres a few in belfast ,so the interviews say
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these people!! as you call them, have to make a living anyway they can. it is not for us to criticize them their way of life they are turkish gypsies
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quote:
Originally posted by puma
it is not for us to criticize them their way of life
Does that depend on whether they use Deodorant or not :D
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It can irritate some I guess when you are out for a meal and they come wave after wave. Doesn't bother me, I developed a very effective "NO" expression some time ago :D
Some responsibility must lie with the restaurant owners. Some (Bella Mamma's may be one) don't allow them in. This at least gives you the choice.
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I agree with the above post.If you get this on a regular basis you do tend to turn off to it.Its not just Turkey you get this but many other countries. The worst I have experienced was in Portugal where they use mothers and new born babies to get your attention.I must admit it depends what they are trying to sell you that makes a difference.
If they are selling dvds I have noticed they tend to do ok. Also the young girls selling red roses.I cannot say the same for the carpet sellers though. They are as we we all know just trying to earn a living so but can be a big irritant as said previously.
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There does seem to be an increase of the 'rose sellers' but also young boys begging. One night while we were sat in the Harem at a front table one of the young boys attempted to snatch my bag off the table, my partner was quick and moved it and the boy ran off. The next night while we were sat in Mangal restaurant we saw the same boy running down the road and a few minutes later being dragged back up the road by a policeman, the lad was crying and I did feel for him, he only looked about 8!! So watch your bags!!
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quote:
Originally posted by jennyjo
the lad was crying and I did feel for him, he only looked about 8!!
Whether 8 or 18 a thief is still a thief and no matter which country they are in they should do to them what they do in Saudi Arabia.
Feel sorry for them !!! not bloody likely
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quote:
Originally posted by puma
these people!! as you call them, have to make a living anyway they can. it is not for us to criticize them their way of life they are turkish gypsies
if you read my post it comprised statements of events and questions, not criticism. also if you read jennyjo's post a little below your's you will see that we have a right to be concerned....
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Being a bar owner, we have had our share of 'beggers' but to be honest, this year hasn't been so bad. Maybe they've all gone to Calis?! The only hassle we get is from the weighing scale kids but maybe thats our fault. We always give them a soft drink and send them on their way.
One night last year, one of the lads, aged 9, came into the bar at gone midnight, sat down, and burst into tears. After calming him down, it turned out he wasn't allowed to go home because he hadn't made his 'daily quota'!! He had to provide the family with 40 lira a day - he only had 22. Needless to say, I gave him what he needed and he hasn't forgotten it. He comes in every day and waters the plants for us
I get annoyed sometimes with the kids but I don't blame them. It can be irritating but do as Scunner says, a simple look will send them on their way!
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Not only in Calis, Fethiye is full of them.
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I met one of the gypsy lads in Ovacik from down in Fethiye area who was only a child and he was not allowed home until he had made enough money. He was going to sleep rough in the woods that night as he could just not make the money. Apparently he was not the only one there. This was a couple of years ago though.
We have been told by Turkish friends not to give to them. I do not know what to think.It is awful to see them sitting on the pavements with those weighing machines when they are so obviously exhausted.
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Going back a few years now about 8/9 when I lived in Hisaronu there were alot of the 'beggar' children on the main street. I always felt sorry for them and the fact that they had to sit out on the road side with their weighing scales etc and what a poor family they must come from. One evening I was late for work and on my way I noticed a car pulling up on one of the backroads... out got 2 of the 'beggar' boys... and proceeded to their 'usual' spot on the main street. I then asked a friend of mine about them. The boys were the children of a fairly well to do family, their parents sent them out to earn some money.
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The last couple of years there has been two young boys (probably brothers) with their weighing scales in Calis, usually at Scarletts by the end of the evening! They are lovely kids, and very polite. We shared crisps and sweets with them last summer, but they were very reluctant to take them. Our youngest daughter always has a "weigh in" when we see the lads, just so that we can give them a couple of lira. To repay her, they made her get up to dance several times at Scarletts - we had a real laugh with them. Though we had been told the story about their alcoholic father who sent them out to earn money each evening, not allowing them to return home until they had earned enough.
Haven't seen them at all this year - are they still around?
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There have been two young boys together on the Fethiye prom these past 3 weeks
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quote:
Originally posted by Crabbit
quote:
Originally posted by jennyjo
the lad was crying and I did feel for him, he only looked about 8!!
Whether 8 or 18 a thief is still a thief and no matter which country they are in they should do to them what they do in Saudi Arabia.
Feel sorry for them !!! not bloody likely
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So you have never stolen "borrowed" anything in your whole life then? If you have not you are a very rare breed Crabbit.
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quote:
Originally posted by rwr
So you have never stolen "borrowed" anything in your whole life then? If you have not you are a very rare breed Crabbit.
In that case I am a very rare breed. :D
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I think they are a nuisance and not as poor as we think they are,but I have noticed there are more of them since last year,its annoying when you are in a conversation and they just stand there waving there goods, it was funny though last month when one of our family asked her husband to buy her a rose,she then bit the head off it and offered the stem back to the lady and said, now stop stalking me,
think about it, you could spend a small fortune in one night,on perfume, roses, bouquets,blow up squeaky toys,lighters/keyrings,baskets, rugs etc.say yes to oe, and they'll all descend on you.:P
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Are those people with the crappy flashing lighters and keyrings really deaf and dumb?
:D
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how long ago was it the kalepark resteaunt area used to be a gypsy village?
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What is the relevance of that Stuart?
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Are those people with the crappy flashing lighters and keyrings really deaf and dumb?
:D
Hard to say, I know people who have tried to catch them out.
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I've been trying for years :D
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I was in the old town centre part of town last year when a man came along with a group of about five young boys all with weighing scales and sent them off to various "pitches". They all seemed pretty cheerful about it but it was like watching Fagin from Oliver sending his "boys" out to collect money.
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Reading this topic has jogged my memory as to how the Turkish shop owners would hassle you to death whenever you walked passed there shops a few years back.Even follow you up the road trying to sell you their goods. Then there was of course the dreaded market stall holders.Anyone else remember those good old days.
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remember them well, hubbies bartering got too much for them in altinkum and they threw him out :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
I've been trying for years :D
They are hardly going to answer you!!!!!!!!!!!
If it is a con it is happening in many other countries. I have been sold things in Crete and Tunisia.
I watched the guy in Tunisia speaking to the waiters and they were as fluent in Makaton as he was. I was embarrased as i was working with special needs at the time and their signing was far superior to my efforts.
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quote:
Originally posted by heather07
They are hardly going to answer you!!!!!!!!!!!
Well you never know, someone reckoned they are trained for weeks on end in the art of non-reaction.
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The people that sell the flashing lighters keyrings etc are legite if they have an official identity card, which at the time of seeling they normally pass you a card to explain and then they should pass you the id card.
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Anyone remember the guy with the telescope offering "A trip to the moon, 1 Lira"?
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Going back to Stuart's question, the area around Kale Park is often referred to as the 'gypsy quarter'. That is where we live .... but we're not gypsies? It is called Etibank and the houses were built by Eti Bank for their employees about fifty years ago. I don't know why it's referred as a gypsy quarter as its a lovely area with lovely people and views to die for!
Going back to the original thread, what these 'beggers' are doing is actually illegal and we often see the police rounding them up. They soon re-appear though! As i write this, I have seen eleven kids walking past with their weighing scales in the last fifteen minutes. Why pay a lira to be told you're fat .... or anorexic in my case!!!
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go to any large city and you will see some one begging or offering to sell you some thing
when I worked in London you would see them washing car windows at traffic lights, women with small babies at the lights as well as rose sellers and on the Tube a man with a harpsicord and a young boy collecting money all supposed to be illegal but still getting away with it
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was in London only yesterday and a foreign lady pushing a pram approached me with her hands out asking for money. When I got back to the tube (Kings Cross) a young lad with his puppy were begging for food money :(
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The difference is that it is easy to ignore those on our streets when we are busy going from place to place in our normal everyday life but when we go on holiday and you are relaxing having dinner and you approached several times by people trying to sell you a rose or perfume although no different becomes more of an problem than at home.
Question
If somone was sat begging with a child who clearly looked starving would you give the mother money?
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Iv'e seen the mothers and babies in Fethiye and wasn't sure so I watched the locals.Most walked past,one or two gestured them away with the back of their hands.We get them in the Midlands at the markets and car boots trying to sell you fake gold or holding their hands out for money.(Two of the car boots I go to are out in the country,no bus service,so you can only get to them by private transport.???)
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I think Gorgeous Bird has made a very valid ... and thought-provoking point! If I saw a child, obviously in need, would I give the mother money? No I wouldn't. I would buy them a meal. Maybe that is just to ease my guilt but rather that than give them money that might be going elsewhere?
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I have seen the children sitting for hours on end with their scales (some of them very young )and I feel sorry for them but it is difficult to know how to react to them. I think they probably have the scales to show they're providing a service rather than begging, which I suspect is illegal.
I have not given them any money because I feel that this just perpetuates their plight. If they never received money, they would not be sent out to beg in this way.
Sue
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quote:
Originally posted by sue@henry
I have seen the children sitting for hours on end with their scales (some of them very young )and I feel sorry for them but it is difficult to know how to react to them. I think they probably have the scales to show they're providing a service rather than begging, which I suspect is illegal.
I have not given them any money because I feel that this just perpetuates their plight. If they never received money, they would not be sent out to beg in this way.
Sue
I think that Sue and the three previous posters have a point, and if you recall my original post that shows what the adult males were doing then giving money is the last thing that one should do.
Handing money to the beggars will simply swell their numbers and increase the hassle for Turks and holidaymakers. Is that what we really want? Fight the gut reaction and think long-term. It's better for everyone in the long run.
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I can remember, I think it was last year, that there was a crackdown on 'professional' beggars in the area as they were actually coming into Fethiye from different areas by buses. The police and council swooped on them and turned them away, with some arrests too.
As Kismetbar said, he would rather by them a meal.. there was one time that I got approached by an elderly woman that just wouldn't take no for an answer... she was asking for ekmek para (money for bread). I'd had enough so I tootled off to the nearest shop and bought her a loaf of bread, handed it to her and she called me all the names under the sun! It is difficult when they tug your heart strings by using children but alot of the time the children that are with them are not even theirs.
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It's hard, a real moral dilema, in my instance a woman sat with a starving child on the edge of Fethiye market, I fought my desperate feeling of giving the woman money because I just felt that the starving child was a comodity to her. Mother did not look starving and I know as a mother myself that I would go without anything to feed my child, it just didn't look like that was the case. My biggest desire was to snatch the child from her, it absolutely broke my heart I was shocked to the core and often wonder if the child is still alive. I walked away in tears.
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We were in a bus stop in Albufeira and two kids were "begging"-it was more like demanding money with menace. The boy had the hardest eyes I have ever seen on a young child. As we refused I happened to look across to a small cafe and there was the kids Mum and dad drinking beer and staring at us. On a hill just behind the bus station was a gypsy camp. They had obviously picked a good spot.
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the relavence to my question about the kale park area being a gypsy camp was meant to be a reply to the original question.
the whole top area there was a gypsy shanty town till the belidye cleared the area. so presumably more gypsies about then.
just wondered if anyone rememberd how long ago....must be about 10 years or so.
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I thought I'd share a little story with you :)
During one of our last holidays to Calis before moving there, we went for dinner on the seafront. At some point in the evening, an extremely disabled man started making a painfully slow journey along the prom. I've never seen anyone as crippled as this poor guy. He 'walked' aided by two crutches, one had to be about half the height of the other. He was stooped forward so far that his head was only a few feet from the floor. Around his neck was a length of string attached to a tray, in which there was a selection of pens, key rings and the like. I've never seen one person take so much attention in my life. Everyone was watching him and really feeling his pain. Dozens, including us, 'bought' pens and the like, 5 and 10 lira notes were given in abundance, even quite a few 20's. This guy was horrifically disabled, it was plain to see and impossible to be a trick or anything of the like.
We always arranged for our taxi man to be at the bridge at a certain time for us and later that's where we went. I guess he wanted to fit in just one more fare because he was about 15 minutes late.
During this 15 minutes we stood and watched the disabled guy and an 'associate' of his, both sitting on the steps opposite Golden Moon Jewellers. The other guy counted the notes, and the pile was way over 1" thick, took about an eighth of it off the top and gave it to the disabled guy, put the rest in his pocket and swiftly buggered off.
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Can quite believe that, I used to mind money for Nesim,(shoe shine)and he used to take the rest back to his uncle (Hagi), and bank what he used to make,
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I am surprised at a few of the replies!!!! Im sure no child or adult grows up and when asked "What do you want to do when you grow up" replies " I want to beg on the streets" We do not know how lucky we are. To give no money in turkey or england on grounds that they will spend it on drugs/alcohol or parents sending them out is a poor excuse not to give. I worked with homeless begging people in Oxford for many years. I have seen sad times in Turkey as well. I sponser children in Gambia who have nothing. and I mean nothing.. Cant believe we winge so much............there are far more people less fortunate than us...I would give money to any worthy charity. How can we all moan when there are children out there living a real hell is beyond me!!!!!!!.
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I give my money to organised charity where you are sure that the cause is receiving the money. Not where the disabled man is being pimped or where the mother keeps the child starving deliberatley.
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That's a good point, if you want to help people locally who need it, why give it to someone who may be driving home in a flash car to his big house? Donate it direct to the carnival charity, so you can see in black and white how it was spent and who benefited.
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Laffa
Is Hagi not the nice man I think he is ?
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Regards the begging.
Ask yourself a question.If you were hungry,would you sit on a pavement all day,every day holding your hand out.??
There's a severely handicapped old lady goes round the markets,ect in an electric disability chair.She does'nt beg.She's got off her arse and created a little business,selling odds and ends.There's also an old one armed man selling odds and ends.I always look after both of these people because I admire them.
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With regards to the lady in the electric chair, she used to beg on the streets but a kind Swiss couple took pity on her and set her up with the chair and gave her some capital to buy some stock. She's a lovely lady!
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I might give money to a mother and child where one of them looks starving. It would have to be the mother, which it never is. Who the hell would make their child more malnourished than them?
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We always buy a little something from the lady in the electric wheelchair. She certainly gets around in it.
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quote:
Originally posted by littlereddevil
Laffa
Is Hagi not the nice man I think he is ?
Hagi used to be called "the uncle", and he put the shoe shine kids up with somewhere to live,i'm not in a position to say how good or bad he was,I could write a book on Nesim, he had evry football kit in the prem division and Rangers, Celtic, you name it,he also had alot of toys, we bought him a new bike over one year and he came back and asked for the receipt on his old one, obviously going to sell it,so we took the new one back off him,but gave it to him before we went home,he grew up very streetwise, which is understandable, but as he grew he lost his charm ,we used to bring warm clothes and boots over for him to take to his family in the winter,hard to believe when your basking in the Calis sunshine,but he was from east Turkey and said it was a very cold place,he would sit with us till 3 in the morning and then come down and have a breakfast the next day, then sleep on the sunbed until it was time to go to work,but he would always take off his new clothes and put the old ones back on ,he said he must look poor when he works,but trust me he made more money than most of the waiters did,apparently he works in Hison now,and has a few children of his own, but is now divorced,he was never allowed in the pool at the Mutlu, some people let him in and others never,and when you think how young he was its no wonder he became the little shyster he did,
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I'm amazed people get so annoyed by these little things. We have a quick chat with the ones we have got to know over the years, and it's a polite 'no thanks' to the others and no more thought of it. As for the lady buying a rose and biting the head off in front of the seller, if someone I was out with did that, it would be the last time I went out in their company. I've never heard anything so rude and disrespectful.
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I've always found that a stern but polite "NO thankyou" usually does the trick. Some of the kids are quite sweet, the little rose girl, alma i think her name was, always sat and had a chat with us. She even taught me some turkish once, bless her.
Out of curiosity, is the elderly lady still about that walks with a hunch and usually carries wood in a sack on her back? We always used to see her around the sunday market area but don't recall seeing her on my last visit.
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Along with the stern but polite 'No Thankyou' gesture a hand on heart too. Does the trick.
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quote:
Originally posted by GrantT
I'm amazed people get so annoyed by these little things. We have a quick chat with the ones we have got to know over the years, and it's a polite 'no thanks' to the others and no more thought of it. As for the lady buying a rose and biting the head off in front of the seller, if someone I was out with did that, it would be the last time I went out in their company. I've never heard anything so rude and disrespectful.
GRANT, fortunately the rose lady knows me, and took it in good spirit,realising the person in question was pi-sed,in fact I was more shocked than the rose lady,but having said that she went on to take another 30 lira from our table,and yes she is a bit nuts, and yes again I would still sit in her company.it takes all sorts.etc
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typical scouser will talk to any one LOL
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yes begging does happen all over the world, however two years ago my family was sat in serkul 1 my daughter was 13 at the time and a young rose seller approached us and we said no thank you, she continued to stand by our table and stare at my daughter, my daughter has severe facial scars due to being born with a large brown birthmark, however the rose seller started laughing then went on to spit in my daughters face, before we could respond one of the waiters saw this and chased her away,i was furious as we are always are polite to them, i will not give these people the time of day after that
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Now that makes me think quite the opposite to what I said before. I'd never decide not to give a penny to "these people" because of the actions of one. That was a horrible thing to happen to your daughter but I have never heard of anything similar happening. It does seem harsh to tar them all with the same brush as that nasty piece of work you had the misfortune to meet.
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thank you, and i agree i would like to think that i treat them as individuals however after this it was hard to do that, but as you say we cannot tar them all with the same brush
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Sharon, what a terrible thing to happen to your daughter, thats is awful.