Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Uzumlu Discussion Forum => Topic started by: stephen4355 on July 25, 2009, 07:54:43 AM
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Last March 2009 I used the local butcher to shop as I had done so extensively in the past. I rather considered the guy pretty friendly and welcoming. On 3 different occasions at that time my debit card was swiped for payment. After the first swipe I was told it was not working, and so it was on each of the following swipes on 3 occasions when the card was swiped twice. Then I was told nothing went through. I then paid cash in full for all I had purchased on the 3 visits which I belived at that time had not been paid for and that my card transactions had failed. .
On seeing my statemnts however, each and every attempt with my card had gone through and was paid the next day. Not withstanding this I had also paid in cash. I immediately informed the butcher and his response was that it was a bank problem. My statemnts clearly show the duplicated payments being debited to his acount. It is now 4 months later and he has done nothing to adress this problem or repay me. He says I should have to go to the bank ? I will be going to the police and taking whatever action is required to get my money back, and futhermore make sure as many others are aware of this balatant dishonesty and greed of this local Uzumlu butcher.
I am told from various sources now that his name and trading history is less than reputable. Does anybody else have knowledge of these or any other scams of poor practise from the past? It is a great shame and a pity that this sort of experience damages trust and faith in supporting local businesses. I hope this butcher will be shamed into repaying me or if not, then, taking the consequeses and bad publicity of involving the police and courts to prevent him from such dishonest trading in future.
I welcome any fedback or help an asistance in nailing this guy. A boycott of his shop would almost certainly get the message home that customers will not tolerate being ripped off !
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I have had this happen also BUT NOT at the local butcher but at Migros in Fethiye and eventually my bank coughed up the cash as it was not my fault, if it is the local butcher I think it is, I have always found him to be honest and helpful, having said that I never use credit or debit credit either in local butchers or big stores now and I think he may be right in saying it is up to the bank to sort out, I have also had this happen at Dalaman airport, good luck and try the banks.
P.S. If you do use your debit or credit card does not matter for how much, KEEP the receipts until you have checked them against your statement, its surprising how many people don't, and if the transaction does not go through ask for cancellation slip it should print one off saying transaction did not go through, basically any evidence to say it did not go through.
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I too have found him a honest and helpful person, and are surprised by your experience ,i hope this is all a miss understanding and that your problem is resolved soon,as for asking to blacklist this person i in my opinion think you are wrong,:( again i hope your problem is sorted soon.Calvin
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quote:
Originally posted by friar tuck
I have had this happen also BUT NOT at the local butcher but at Migros and eventually my bank coughed up as it was not my fault, if it is the local butcher I think it is I have always found him to be honest and helpful, having said that I never use credit or debit crda either in local butchers or big stores now and I think he may be right in saying it is up to the bank to sort out, I have also had this happen at Dalaman airport, good luck and try the banks.
Thanks Friar T. However. My bank statement clearly shows the debits being mde and paid to the butcher so he has ben paid twice for each of the thre transactions two times. On top of tht he has also had the cash. In such circumstances it is for him to sort it out as my contract was with him. He will know from his own statements what he has in reciepts and he does know well I paid him additionally total in cash. Because I used a debit not credit card I have no recourse through my own bank. I am afraid that his actions are dishonest at worst and extremely unhelpful and bad business practise at best.. I am pleased for you that you hav found him good in regard to your own dealings. Interestingly it appears all if not most of the local Turkish do not use him and it is the English that do. That in itself to me raises questions and doubt about his credentials. I think you make a valid point about use of credit and debit cards generally. Thanks again.
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quote:
Originally posted by calvin 1949
I too have found him a honest and helpful person, and are surprised by your experience ,i hope this is all a miss understanding and that your problem is resolved soon,as for asking to blacklist this person i in my opinion think you are wrong,:( again i hope your problem is sorted soon.Calvin
Calvin, Thanks for your comments response. Again pleased to hear your experience is good in this respect. As for getting it sorted and resolved this is all I have wanted and been waiting for.. After 3 months it is not unreasonable to take and seek some action to get a resolution. As for boycot / blacklist that is a matter or individuals of course.
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This has happened to me twice, once with BIM and also for a telephone top up. Eventually my bank had to request repayment from the supplier's bank, took a long time but was resolved. Keep receipt even if it says that it hasn't gone through. I wouldn't have been able to get the money back without it. As regards the butcher I would endorse other people's comments as to his honesty.
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it has also happened to us, but strangely in a bank ATM, certainly not at the Butchers in Uzumlu. In 4 years of using the Butcher in uzumlu we have found him helpful, kind and friendly. He has always looked after us very well. It is not unusual that the locals do not use him. Few locals have surplus money to spend on food bought from supermarkets - most grow their own fruit and veg and use the markets. Meat is a luxury in Turkey and most meals are meat free. It could have been an error with the banking equipment - it happens.
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quote:
Originally posted by pookie
it has also happened to us, but strangely in a bank ATM, certainly not at the Butchers in Uzumlu. In 4 years of using the Butcher in uzumlu we have found him helpful, kind and friendly. He has always looked after us very well. It is not unusual that the locals do not use him. Few locals have surplus money to spend on food bought from supermarkets - most grow their own fruit and veg and use the markets. Meat is a luxury in Turkey and most meals are meat free. It could have been an error with the banking equipment - it happens.
Thanks Pookie... I am encouraged by the positive feedback from you and others on the forum. Perhaps I am just unlucky to be ripped off on this occasion. Still after 4 months and no effort on part of the butcher to repay me or assist with his bank what am I to do..
Thanks again for feedback..
Stephen
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I`ve known the local butcher and his lovely family for 3 years.He is,in my experience,a very decent and honourable person.It would certainly seem that there has been some hitch in the banking system.Be that as it may,fact remains that there is a problem which should be resolved urgently and amicably.without recourse to heavy artillery such as police or lawyers.Perhaps one of our expats who speaks Turkish could assist?The disclosure of the relevant bank records by both parties should be the obvious starting point.(PS I introduced myself to the main Forum yesterday)
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Agree wholeheartedly with Villan i think time to stand back and reassess the situation , and in the cold light of day i am sure that Stephens problem can be sorted . life is to short for all this bad feeling .Regards Calvin
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quote:
Originally posted by calvin 1949
Agree wholeheartedly with Villan i think time to stand back and reassess the situation , and in the cold light of day i am sure that Stephens problem can be sorted . life is to short for all this bad feeling .Regards Calvin
Hear hear, life is too short and all we want to do is enjoy our beautiful part of Turkiye , which the locals have always welcomed us to.
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I too would be angry if nothing had been resolved in 4 months.Clearly you should speak to a solicitor about this if your bank or the butcher wont help you.
WW
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Before I start I will say that I am a good friend of Eddie and his dad, in the three years that I have lived here I have found them to be both generous in friendship and in material ways. I am suprised that it has come to the situation where someone is being called disreputable and dishonest. In the four months this has been going on how long have you been here Stephen and during that time have they offered to go to the bank with you to sort this matter out? I am free on Monday and if you wish I will accompany you to the bank with Eddie and Seyfun and act as an independent person to get this matter resolved,I am sure they will be available and agreeable.
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Wise words and cool heads!But only right that justice also be seen to be done and that should not involve the son(and my pal!)translating.Need total independence.Sadly,strong defamatory statements have been published and it is in everyone`s interest to resolve matters properly and this wiil obviously necessitate requisite apololgies at some stage.Cheers.Jan
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not sure I understand your post Jan ....?
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Originally posted by pookie
not sure I understand your post Jan ....?
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Sorry.Just that there has been a serious mistake(and we all know what Turkish banks are like);Stephen is out of pocket and understandably unchuffed;Butcher has been seriously libelled.You and the others have sensibly suggested amicable resolution,and Phil has kindly offered to assist.My only further suggestion was merely that perhaps Eddie would not be the ideal interpreter given the sensitivity and familial proximity-but that is for Stephen to consider.
/quote]
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I'm sorry to hear that you've had this problem Steven and understand that you should feel aggrieved. I too have had a similar problem with the bank but found that they corrected the matter very quickly when I called in at the branch in Fethiye.
I must also say that I've always found Sayfun and Sesgin to be honest and honourable people even before Sayfun opened his present shop premises.
I commend Phil, whom I also know to be an honourable man, for his offer to help resolve this matter.
If there is a problem with the translator, most banks have an abundance of English speaking staff who are always willing to help
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e have had the same problem with the petrol stationon two occasions, however our credit card company refunded the payments and are taking it up with the garage, this may be a honst mistake but we were never issued with transaction cancelled reciepts which makes me wonder
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Well said Phil and well done I sincerely hope this problem can and will be resolved as soon as possible, I will add that the reason I use Seyfun is because his prices are always the same because he is up to date with his scanner etc., not always the case in other local shops, but I suppose that happens all over.
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We too have been using this shop since we bought in Uzumlu nearly 3 years ago. We have found him helpfull in every way and honest.
If as Stephen says the locals don't use him then that is probably because he is a little expensive for some items, but that is the price you pay for convenience. If like us you do not have a car then the extra you pay for some items is still better than having to bus it to Fethiye.
Also I would like to add that unlike most, if not all the other shops in the Village he does put a price lable on his stock, so you know exactly what it will cost, then it's up to you if you buy or not. This rules out the one price for locals and an inflated price for tourists, which sadly does happen in other shops.
Also when we have shopped there he will always offer us a lift home, or if he is busy we go alone and he will bring the shopping to the house when he is free.
I can only think this issue must be a banking error and would suggest as Phil did it is sorted out via the banks and not the strong arm of the law.
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Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the feedback and especially the positive comments that commend the butcher and his shop. I also liked him enormously, had great fun and was more than happy spending money there and enjoying his company whilst doing so. It's this that makes it all the worse and regretable. I feel betrayed frankly, and I had warned I would go public if nothing was done to address the problem.
The situation to resolve this really is quite simple and does not require me to go to the butchers bank. His bank is his business. He has a list of transactions from my statement and the dates showing payments made to his account. Either that money went into his account or it did not ? The butcher just like you and me will have his statements. If by some remote chance the monies showing as paid from my account have not been credited to his account then I need some help from the butcher - his bank and my bank to see where those payments did go. I have been repeatedly promised these matters would be looked into and addressed.. They have not, and until posting this yesterday I seriously doubted they would have. I am grateful for the forum and its members for being a vehicle to at least get a reaction and perhaps a little urgency now in resolving these matters. I am very freindly, easy going and what is more forgiving, but I will not be messed around, fobbed off, and taken for a ride by anyone. I will do whatever is required to have this resolved as quickly as possible so a line can be drawn. However... Eddie the enraged Son has done little to facilitate matters given his deplorable actions last evening. On my leaving to Dalaman last evening I briefly encountered Eddie as I passed the butchers shop. He was aggressive, mean, verbally abusive and verbally threatening. I simply insisted that this should be resolved and it should not have come to this. I suggested a repayment ASAP would be helpful. Eddie refused to listen but wanted to shout. I then departed as I am not interested in having such a yelling match in the street. Eddie then followed me in hot persuit in his car chasing mine as I went on my way to Dalaman. He repeatedly overtook, cut in, cut me up. He yelled and screamend uncontralabley with rage like a mad dog. He shouted racial abuse slagging the English. This continued all the way down the hillside road where on occasions in his attempts to stop me, he tried to run me off the road ! His diving was wreckless and dangerous. His manner and behaviour totally illegal and unacceptable. To cap it off whilst swerving violently from side to side Eddie managed to produce a large long stick with which he then aggressively made very threatening and violent gestures.. All whilst driving at speed!
I beg to ask the question why does Eddie have such a threatening weapon at the ready being carried in his car? All of last nights events were whitnessed. Eddie was even foolish enough to carry out all of this whilst we were being followed by another car !
Yes, yes... I would like an end to this, and to call it a day, and in an amicable manner. What message can Eddies uncontrollable and indefensable actions of last night do to help? I suspect we have regretably not heard the last of this until I recieve an unreserved apology and payment due in full without any further delay.
Eddie now unfortunatly would seem to be in risk of very serious trouble with the authorities unless he takes urgent corrective action. I am sure his very many friends will advise him soon enough what he should do.
I shall continue to post factual accounts of these matters until resolved.
Stephen Chidgey.
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Originally posted by phil1839
Before I start I will say that I am a good friend of Eddie and his dad, in the three years that I have lived here I have found them to be both generous in friendship and in material ways. I am suprised that it has come to the situation where someone is being called disreputable and dishonest. In the four months this has been going on how long have you been here Stephen and during that time have they offered to go to the bank with you to sort this matter out? I am free on Monday and if you wish I will accompany you to the bank with Eddie and Seyfun and act as an independent person to get this matter resolved,I am sure they will be available and agreeable.
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Phew, this is escalating. My thinking is that it is for the butcher to sort this out with his bank. I assume you have given him plenty of time to sort this out before you resorted to mentioning all this on CBF. I like Eddie and an dismayed and sickened at his reaction to all of this. Clearly he thinks you have been unreasonable. BUT if you have approached his father and explained the situation and had no help from him then what on earth were you supposed to do next? -Go away and forget about it, sign it off to the vagaries of the banking system? I don't think so.
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Posted - 25 July 2009 : 06:47:05 First Topic Posted
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 07:54:43 Second Topic Posted
I suspect after reading your introduction and having your place in Uzumlu for three years, you have only just joined CBF to have a go at Seyfun, I also suspect there is more to this than meets the eye, having known Sesgin for over 4 years now I have never known him act in the manner you describe.
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Hi Friar T. Yes.. you are right in that I have used the forum to get a result from the butcher. I am pleased you have faith in him and so did I.. Ther is nothing more to this than the fact I have lost out financially and that is of no concern to the butcher for why I dont understand..
I doubt you would sit around and do nothing in this situation. Believe me, nobody regrets me having to air this in public more than me, but having warned him and Eddie I would do so and they still do nothing then what am I to do ? As I said and I am happy to endorse. I liked him and enjoyed shopping at that shop. Good quality product and I always got great service... All the more perplexing then that given this it is not sorted and become the issue it has.
quote:
Originally posted by friar tuck
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 06:47:05 First Topic Posted
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 07:54:43 Second Topic Posted
I suspect after reading your introduction and having your place in Uzumlu for three years, you have only just joined CBF to have a go at Seyfun, I also suspect there is more to this than meets the eye, having known Sesgin for over 4 years now I have never known him act in the manner you describe.
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Stephen, I think its terrible what has happened to you,I can see it in black and white, you've been charged for goods you did not get, and want your money back, simple,
but I cant help but think no matter how this is resolved you wont be able to relax and enjoy your home in the sun in the future,especially with the antics of the irate son,I would have been terrified, but hope it all works out well.
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Hello Iaffa,
Thank you for your comment. The Son Eddie is a very good guy in fact and does very good deads to help many English people and others with translations among other things. He obviously and quite naturally has to support his Father and was very misguided in what he did last night. I was not and am not intimidated by such behaviour however my passenger was extremely so. he is young and will learn soon enough right and wrong as well as what is acceptable behaviour.
I come out as often as work allows so not in Uzumlu all the time much as I would like. I am sure all this will be well resolved by the time I retire .. Thank you again
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Originally posted by laffa
Stephen, I think its terrible what has happened to you,I can see it in black and white, you've been charged for goods you did not get, and want your money back, simple,
but I cant help but think no matter how this is resolved you wont be able to relax and enjoy your home in the sun in the future,especially with the antics of the irate son,I would have been terrified, but hope it all works out well.
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i have watched this thread escalate with interest and shock. i promised myself i would not put any more comments on here but i feel i have to. We have only read one side of this event and as friar tuck said there must be more to this than we are reading. Although Eddies actions (as stated by Stephen) seem unreasonable i feel there must have been something said or done for him to react that way.We still have to appreciate we are in their country and that what we think are simple and quick problems that are resolved instantly in the UK are not over here.
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Hi Goatman,
If you discover what the "more than this" is , please do let me know. As far as I am concerned, it could not be simpler regardless of any cultural differences. Money is money.. You buy goods for a price and do not accept paying 3 times the face value. It may well have been a genuine mistake originally no doubt.. However.. to ignore the issue, and discount the concerns of a good customer for such an extended period is plain bad business. I have always accepted that I am a guest in Turkey. I believe in using local businesses and treating all in a friendly respectful manner.. That does not preclude me standing up for what is right and holding my corner when required to do so as I am sure you would in similar circumstances. I have also been balanced I feel in reflecting the good I experienced with the butcher and his shop goods and services. Furthermore and despite last nights serious threatening behaviour and dangerous acts by Eddie, I have at the sametime acknowledged he is popular, likable and does good things.. I think I am being generous in my balanced reflections given the gravity of the experiences..
Stephen
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Originally posted by goatman
i have watched this thread escalate with interest and shock. i promised myself i would not put any more comments on here but i feel i have to. We have only read one side of this event and as friar tuck said there must be more to this than we are reading. Although Eddies actions (as stated by Stephen) seem unreasonable i feel there must have been something said or done for him to react that way.We still have to appreciate we are in their country and that what we think are simple and quick problems that are resolved instantly in the UK are not over here.
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Hi Stephen
You do not mention what bank you use, however it should make no difference,when your card transaction is being processed it goes through an authorisation centre.sometimes when they are busy the transaction will return as unauthorised this is due to time scales, this can happen a few times so is not the retailers problem as he has no control over it.
It can then happen that the authorisation centre then recieves the origional request which is then authorised.now that you have your statement with the duplicated transactions you should contact your bank and advise of the matter. the bank will then dispute the tranactions with the retailers bank and hopefully refund your money,
There should be no need to contact the retailer as banks will take action
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Hi Cadavanti. My debit card was a UK issue Barclays Visa. If I am a good customer and my supplier is in receipt of duplicate funds and cash as well why would they just not either deny having those funds or refund them? My bank can't claw back debit card payments made where a pin number has been entered to confirm the transaction. In each case this was so.. Therfore I am reliant on the honesty and co-operation of my supplier. Yet to be forthcoming ! Thanks for input.. I wish it was possible the way you suggest... It would be so preferable to where we are now.
Regards
quote:
Originally posted by cadavanti
Hi Stephen
You do not mention what bank you use, however it should make no difference,when your card transaction is being processed it goes through an authorisation centre.sometimes when they are busy the transaction will return as unauthorised this is due to time scales, this can happen a few times so is not the retailers problem as he has no control over it.
It can then happen that the authorisation centre then recieves the origional request which is then authorised.now that you have your statement with the duplicated transactions you should contact your bank and advise of the matter. the bank will then dispute the tranactions with the retailers bank and hopefully refund your money,
There should be no need to contact the retailer as banks will take action
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quote:
Originally posted by cadavanti
Hi Stephen
You do not mention what bank you use, however it should make no difference,when your card transaction is being processed it goes through an authorisation centre.sometimes when they are busy the transaction will return as unauthorised this is due to time scales, this can happen a few times so is not the retailers problem as he has no control over it.
It can then happen that the authorisation centre then recieves the origional request which is then authorised.now that you have your statement with the duplicated transactions you should contact your bank and advise of the matter. the bank will then dispute the transactions with the retailers bank and hopefully refund your money,
There should be no need to contact the retailer as banks will take action
This is exactly what happened to me and the credit card company made it as difficult as possible for me, it was only after several phone calls and letters that they agreed to refund the money that was paid to Migros through there mistake, no doubt Migros kept the money paid I don't know, but my argument with them was that it was a mistake on either there equipment or that of Migros either way it was NO fault of mine and as I said they eventually paid up.
I am not having a go at you Stephen but I do think you may bring more pressure on the banks to help you solve this problem, they will of course deny that there equipment is faulty they always do if it means they have to give cash back.
I really do think this thread has run it's course now good luck to you Stephen and if we do meet up in Uzumlu I will certainly buy you en Efes or two.
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen4355
I think I am being generous in my balanced reflections given the gravity of the experiences..
Stephen
You`re being more balanced than I would be in your position 8)
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F Tuck Hi... Thx... I think you miss the point with respect. If
the butcher has not had the funds credited from my account as indicated then fine. He can say and prove and no problem. If I am a good customer why would he not want to level with me and help? If it is a bank problem then fine but the reality is the account payment details on my statement provide not just account details but also account name too.
I am big enough to be seen to and admit to being wrong ..Even bigger to apologize too... However.. I have seen nothing to persuade me the butcher has not had and been in receipt of the funds. Until such time as this is resolved the topic regretably will remain live. It will also remain live until there is a publicly posted response either from Eddie or on his behalf apologizing unreservedly for his actions last night.
I look forward to a beer with you, but if it is beholden on the end of this thread then that will be a matter for others to make that happen by their actions.
Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by friar tuck
quote:
Originally posted by cadavanti
Hi Stephen
You do not mention what bank you use, however it should make no difference,when your card transaction is being processed it goes through an authorisation centre.sometimes when they are busy the transaction will return as unauthorised this is due to time scales, this can happen a few times so is not the retailers problem as he has no control over it.
It can then happen that the authorisation centre then recieves the origional request which is then authorised.now that you have your statement with the duplicated transactions you should contact your bank and advise of the matter. the bank will then dispute the transactions with the retailers bank and hopefully refund your money,
There should be no need to contact the retailer as banks will take action
This is exactly what happened to me and the credit card company made it as difficult as possible for me, it was only after several phone calls and letters that they agreed to refund the money that was paid to Migros through there mistake, no doubt Migros kept the money paid I don't know, but my argument with them was that it was a mistake on either there equipment or that of Migros either way it was NO fault of mine and as I said they eventually paid up.
I am not having a go at you Stephen but I do think you may bring more pressure on the banks to help you solve this problem, they will of course deny that there equipment is faulty they always do if it means they have to give cash back.
I really do think this thread has run it's course now good luck to you Stephen and if we do meet up in Uzumlu I will certainly buy you en Efes or two.
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Just out of interest, what is the amount of money we are talking about here?
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Hi Stephen.. Just a short question .. Which bank's ''debit'' card was it !!? 'cause some banks transaction is diffucult and might be trouble and post machine swipe trouble . Was that Turkish Bank's debit card or English bank where you had that debit card from England ?
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I used my English bank account / English Barclays debit card. I use it extensively and have never experienced any other problems. It is only reasonable that the supplier should co-operate with the customer to resolve such issues. As far as my bank is concerned, payments were made and authorized with my pin and therefore credited to the retailer as documented on my statements.
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Must admit, if the customer can prove from statements that payments have been taken twice, for the same amount, within the space of a few seconds/minutes I would have thought the retailer would be honour bound to pay the money back (especially if the customer then paid in cash as well). It is much more difficult to get money back on debit card payments.
Just a thought but perhaps the person 'working' the machine wasn't quite sure what they were doing?
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This could be an honest mistake or a scam or a bank error but whichever one it is I really think it shows that it's not always the best thing to go public on these matters - especially when libeling someone who's business is his livelihood.
Maybe it would have been better to get a local Turkish/English speaking person to mediate in this instance to find out if the money had definitely been credited to the butcher's account. Then a course of action could have been decided. Trust me I work with these machines and they are far from 100% accurate.
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quote:
Originally posted by stoop
This could be an honest mistake or a scam or a bank error but whichever one it is I really think it shows that it's not always the best thing to go public on these matters - especially when libeling someone who's business is his livelihood.
Maybe it would have been better to get a local Turkish/English speaking person to mediate in this instance to find out if the money had definitely been credited to the butcher's account. Then a course of action could have been decided. Trust me I work with these machines and they are far from 100% accurate.
I Could not agree with you more i think that you have repeated every thing that has been posted .Stephen i think it is time to lay this to rest ,until your next visit out here ,when i am sure there are many among us who will help you and Eddies Father sort out your problem letting this incident pray on your mind cannot be any good for you ,as i said before life is to short i am sure when things have calmed down a satisfactory outcome to all parties can be achieved,Regards Calvin :)
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I have not libeled anyone, just merely reported the incident having had no co-operation from the retailer. It almost certainly was an error initially but to ignore repeated requests to help rectify the issue is bad form. I am fully aware that bank card readers can be at fault however all the card transactions were made and authorised by my pin. All the transactions appeared at the time not to go through so I paid all in cash. After that the payments appeared on my statement debited to the account name and numer of the butcher retailer. What difficulty is there in confirming or denying those payments are recieved or not? I have had no response so going public on here warns others to use their cards with caution and allows people to draw their own conclusions about buying from that shop.
I make no apologies for either going public or warning others of this regretable experience. Having had the reaction from Eddie the Son of the butcher I guess at least they are now thinking about how this might be resolved and indeed how Eddie might avoid very serious charges resulting from his dangerous driving and threatening abusive behaviour with a wooden baton. Given that aggression it is hardly a matter for me to be exercising discretion. I have still yet to report and make a formal request for charges but I most certainly will if I do not see an public unreserved apology and agreement to fully cooperate in having my over charges repaid.
quote:
Originally posted by stoop
This could be an honest mistake or a scam or a bank error but whichever one it is I really think it shows that it's not always the best thing to go public on these matters - especially when libeling someone who's business is his livelihood.
Maybe it would have been better to get a local Turkish/English speaking person to mediate in this instance to find out if the money had definitely been credited to the butcher's account. Then a course of action could have been decided. Trust me I work with these machines and they are far from 100% accurate.
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I would call this libelous but it's your call at the end of the day.
"I will be going to the police and taking whatever action is required to get my money back, and futhermore make sure as many others are aware of this balatant dishonesty and greed of this local Uzumlu butcher."
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To withhold information, be unhelpful or to hold monies not belonging is dishonest. I have no case to answer. The good thing about this forum is that we can all express views and opinions and we are all entitled to them. Would you condone aggressive violent behaviour and dangerous driving as a suitable response to these difficulties? Are your apparent assumptions that my allegations are unfounded and libelous more serious possibley than threatening violent behaviour?
I will agree with you and other contributors that it should not have come to this. That said I am not about to roll over and submit to wrong doing, threatening behaviour and intimidation. Niether am I about to fall over myself to be polite and appealling just so as not to offend the politically correct.
This can stop right now. Lets see a response and an apology from Eddie and an agreement to co-operate in obtaing re-embursement of my losses.
quote:
Originally posted by stoop
I would call this libelous but it's your call at the end of the day.
"I will be going to the police and taking whatever action is required to get my money back, and futhermore make sure as many others are aware of this balatant dishonesty and greed of this local Uzumlu butcher."
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I never said that your allegations are unfounded merely that calling a local businessman dishonest and opening a topic entitled -"Uzumlu Butcher - fraudulent card payments" is a libelous accusation in my opinion. It also seems that what has gone on since then - threatening, aggressive and violent behaviour stems from your original accusations. Wrong though that is (and I do not condone it for one second) this type of response was always a possibility.
As I said - it goes to prove that it's not always a good thing to bring these things to an open forum. You might end up getting your money back but at what cost?
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Thanks for your comments and feedback... Appreciated thank you..
Not wanting to repeat myself... I never wanted this. I have resorted to the forum to get a reaction and attention to my reasonable requests privately since March. If you ignore wrong doings and are seen as a walk over that will just be exploited in the future.
I do not believe for one minute that my monies have been miscredited anywhere else other than with the butcher. I do believe that this was a genuine mistake initially, however, oportunism or just not being bothered to sort it out has taken hold and now made this situation so much worse. (since I am not here that often I guess I was easy to ignore) It still makes what has happened dishonest regardless. It is in the public interest and it is nothing other than fraudulent to retain monies collected in error especially when paid a 3rd time in cash. If you were the retailer in this situation and you were not in receipt of those funds, would you not have exclaimed that at your earliest oportunity? Sadly, when I am repaid, I will be vindicated yes, but regretably and presumabley others will take a view on the retailer, something which he could have avoided simply by cooperating. As for the cost of getting my money back ? It is not always totally about money. What about my self worth and self respect? What about honesty, decency transparency and fare play. Those are standards we all aspire too regardless of culture or nationality.
quote:
Originally posted by stoop
I never said that your allegations are unfounded merely that calling a local businessman dishonest and opening a topic entitled -"Uzumlu Butcher - fraudulent card payments" is a libelous accusation in my opinion. It also seems that what has gone on since then - threatening, aggressive and violent behaviour stems from your original accusations. Wrong though that is (and I do not condone it for one second) this type of response was always a possibility.
As I said - it goes to prove that it's not always a good thing to bring these things to an open forum. You might end up getting your money back but at what cost?
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Just out of interest, what is the amount of money we are talking about here?
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Just out of interest, what is the amount of money we are talking about here?
Dont be nosy:D ;)
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Stephen - when I said 'at what cost' I was not implying money wise. My view is that you have a home in Uzumlu and it's a small village. Personally I would not have started this topic as I would not have wanted the hassle that comes with accusing a seemingly well respected businessman of fraudulent actions.
I really hope you get it sorted before it escalates further but I'm still not sure posting it on here will get the result you want.
Good luck in trying to get an amicable solution.
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I have used the butchers shop on numerous occasions and can only state the service from father and son has been excellent, a reason why I and my partner return there time and time again. The father and son Eddie will go out of his way to assist and even pointed out a cheaper alternative on a product when in there last and carries the shopping out to our car for my then pregnant partner and they are plain sociable and welcoming people as you have said also of past experience (I have never used a card to pay there), so I am reading this thread with utter astonishment to the situation you find yourself in. My question to you though is why if you have approached the bank and the shop direct to try and address this have you not gone to the police, rather than posting this, no where have you said father and son have stated they will sort it rather that they have referred you back to the bank. It doesn't matter what country you are in if a person deliberatley holds onto someone elses property with the intention of not returning it this is 'theft' in this case it is alledged fraudulent deception which is obviously criminal and therefore should be addressed by the police authorities. You state this has gone on for months now and clearly issues have escalated. I would hope that this was a genuine error, but you sound/state as if this isn't and therefore question why the police have not been involved already, if it is a genuine error surely the authorities can address it on your behalf for resolution, then when it is addressed you could have put your experience down in the good and bad shop section rather than petition for a ban on shopping at this store as part of your solution solving to the situation. Don't get me wrong I would be very peed off to but I would try and sort it out especially if it starts escalating seeking authority intervention to achieve this. I hope this is resolved quickly for you both but do urge you to address this through the relevant channels.
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Thanks for your observations, interest and reasoned comments.
I was due to go to Jandarma / Police in Uzumlu on Saturday Morning but my interpretor never made it over to Uzumlu. I had already informed Eddie I would take action and go public if I had no response and agreement to resolve the issue. I will report all matters to police when I am next out in Turkey. It is a great shame but those who have had good experiences at the shop (as I have historically) will not be influenced by me not to shop there. What I was seeking to find out was if anyone else had bad experiences. Those that have do not shop there anyway.
Now, since posting this on Saturday and experiencing Eddie's aggressive side along with the dangerous driving, I hate to think of the threatening behaviour and brandishing of a baton, but these matters displayed an uncontrollable rage of anger and this really can't be excused or tollerated in any society however popular and seamingly likable a character is.
All very very regretable indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by corbindallas
I have used the butchers shop on numerous occasions and can only state the service from father and son has been excellent, a reason why I and my partner return there time and time again. The father and son Eddie will go out of his way to assist and even pointed out a cheaper alternative on a product when in there last and carries the shopping out to our car for my then pregnant partner and they are plain sociable and welcoming people as you have said also of past experience (I have never used a card to pay there), so I am reading this thread with utter astonishment to the situation you find yourself in. My question to you though is why if you have approached the bank and the shop direct to try and address this have you not gone to the police, rather than posting this, no where have you said father and son have stated they will sort it rather that they have referred you back to the bank. It doesn't matter what country you are in if a person deliberatley holds onto someone elses property with the intention of not returning it this is 'theft' in this case it is alledged fraudulent deception which is obviously criminal and therefore should be addressed by the police authorities. You state this has gone on for months now and clearly issues have escalated. I would hope that this was a genuine error, but you sound/state as if this isn't and therefore question why the police have not been involved already, if it is a genuine error surely the authorities can address it on your behalf for resolution, then when it is addressed you could have put your experience down in the good and bad shop section rather than petition for a ban on shopping at this store as part of your solution solving to the situation. Don't get me wrong I would be very peed off to but I would try and sort it out especially if it starts escalating seeking authority intervention to achieve this. I hope this is resolved quickly for you both but do urge you to address this through the relevant channels.
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Since you can no longer pursue this matter in Turkey I think it's best we lock this thread.
Do feel free to let us know the outcome on your return
Anne