Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: SteveJ on August 18, 2009, 12:38:16 PM
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I have an apartment in Calis which is one of four with a shared pool. Three owners are British whilst the other is a Turkish guy.
We had some trouble with him in May because he was demanding £400 from each of us for garden improvements that he had made without our consultation or approval. He has also installed a large metal dog cage at the entrance, again without any consent and at one point had three dogs roaming the grounds. We had an acrimonious meeting with him and told him that he had to get rid of the dogs but we did (reluctantly) agree to pay for the garden improvements.
We (the Brits) have paid one third each of the annual maintenance costs for the shared pool but the Turkish guy is refusing to pay his share because he says "he can't use the pool when we are using it".
He lives at the apartment almost continuously whilst we are only there for a week or two at a time. He's being completely unreasonable but I suspect that it's just payback for our refusal to allow him to keep his dogs on site. Just to give you an idea of what he's like - he emptied the pool just before we arrived in May and refused to have it refilled until we paid him what he thought we owed him.
Is there anything that can be done to force him to pay his share? If not, what are our options? Banning him from using the pool would do no good because he'd just wait until we've left.
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The only recognised route is to form a legal management committee that is registered with the notary's office. That way owners can be taken to court for non payment, which will cost 12% in legal fees. The only problem here is that with such a small site, is it worth it?
We went down this route on our much larger complex 2 years ago, so if you need any further info, pm me
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It's storys like this that make delighted that we dont have a pool on our site with all the resulting aggro! :(
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This is a recurring problem here, Liz 101's advice is probably the only way, but would he take any notice of a court ruling? I doubt it. Only a suggestion but, if it's only a small pool, agree with the other English owners to fill it in and go to the beach instead, could work out a much cheaper option and cut out the hassle at the same time.
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Thanks Glo - perhaps we could fill it with sand and have our own beach. I don't think that our grandkids will be too pleased.
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I've just realised (and before some smarta**se mathematician points it out), the Brits have paid a quarter each not a third each.
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Do you have a "descion book" or a management plan anywhere this is the legal book that governs your site. Legally if someone is not paying you can impose a 5% late charge per month & believe me this adds up. If they fail to pay up you can take them to court & have their house sold.
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Steve let me tell you, you have got it easy. Most of the residents on my complex do not pay the £300 maintenance. There are only a handful that do. This year we have no security because there are only about 7 or 8 that have paid maintenance and I doubt it is enough to keep the pool and the maintenance staff. Next I suspect it will be the pool that will go. There has been an attept to set up a committee but this has collapsed as nobody can see eye to eye, we have some extreme characters. It's an absolute nightmare.
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Go the legal route! It DOES work and it is worth the agony! We have an apartment on the same complex as Liz and thanks to a lot of hard work and legal advice and court orders, our non paying Turkish (and one British!) neighbours are now paying!
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If you seek advice from a legal Turkish company, you may be told what have in the past. Unless you are in a complex of maybe 8 apts or more, to set up a comittee and take any non payer to court, it could well cost more (as well as a lot of hassle), compared to the remaining owners paying a non payers share. Unfair we know, but this was the advice I was given, just in case we had any problems with a non payer, but for us, we are lucky and have no problems.....as yet.
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We to have a simular problem,our complex has no money due to past presidents wasting money and the fact that many turkish owners have never paid a penny since the place was built.Also,sadly we do have some english owners who owe monies.How ever,i understand that one villa has been taken back through the courts to pay off its debts,Thats why we are now paying over £60-00 per month,to keep the place going and every year the fees have been going up,sad.
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we had the same problem , some people think they dont have to pay , so we employed a solicitor and got a translation of the turkish condominium law . we are on a complex of 14 , we havent managed to get all money owing but have compromised and come to an agreement . we found this to be the only way .
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Our apartment block is only composed of 6 apartments, so we are not officially covered by condominium law. However most owners felt that to give everyone peace of mind, we would set up a management agreement. This cost 300 pounds for the lawyer and basically if anyone defaults, a charge can be put on their apartment at the deeds office which impacts any future sale. In addition, as an earlier member has said, interest on late payment can be applied and will be enforced by the courts. You need a majority (50% of those named on tapus) to vote for this. If some owners cannot be present for the meeting as long as they give POA to someone to vote on their behalf it ccan go ahead and a manager appointed. This can be one of the owners or it could be your maintenance company if you have one.
Cathy
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The commitee (now defunct) on our complex wanted us all to sign power of attorney to committee members to make decisions on the complex. Is this something that others have done?
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgeous_bird
The commitee (now defunct) on our complex wanted us all to sign power of attorney to committee members to make decisions on the complex. Is this something that others have done?
Technically, it's not necessary to give POA to committee members, if the committee is legally recognised, ie has been properly voted for, you have a decision book that has been notarised etc, the Manager (Baskan) can make whatever decisions (s)he sees fit for the good of the complex without any consultation
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Liz you wrote:
'.... the Manager (Baskan) can make whatever decisions (s)he sees fit for the good of the complex without any consultation'
We have appointed our manager (Turkish) (as it happens, the maintenance company we use) but we did so on the understanding that her duties would cease after the year was up and we will either have to vote her in again (we are only 2 other owners on our board who will each present POA for the vote at our annual meeting). Am I right in my understanding? We have also been under the impression that it would complicate matters for us if we appointed one of our actual owners as manager - in terms of managing the payment of bills and work done in Turkey while we are in the UK. Have you any thoughts on this. We are thinking that we could perhaps manage the funds from the UK - sending out money as and when required to Turkey if need be. thanks
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Maisie
I've just returned from 3 weeks in Fethiye, so have just seen your post. Our Manager is in fact also an owner & he is largely in the UK, for my sins I act as treasurer / accountant & ensure that cash is sent to Turkey as & when required from our UK A/C (a Nationwide Treasurers A/C) either to our Turkish A/C or to the property management company. More often than not I get one of our UK owners will take the cash over, as this saves a large sum in bank charges. All the communal electricity bills are paid by direct debit from the Turkish A/C. Any large extra expenses are agreed in advance so that cash for this can also be sent over.
In addition to the manager & myself, we have a deputy manager, an ex-pat, who is also a signatory to the Turkish A/C. Our complex has approx 1/3 Turkish owners, so their maintenance is paid directly into the Turkish A/C. Small extra expenses eg replacement light bulbs etc are paid out of this A/C.
I know it all sounds a bit complicated, but it works reasonably well for us. There has to be a certain level of commitment from all the site officials, as there is always an element of spending some part of their time doing site business.
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I have an apartment on the same complex as Lynne and Liz, go the legal route. It works for us the committee work very very hard in making sure everything run as smoothly as possible.
You do have the advantage as you have three British owners and as long as you all agree you should be able to sort out this problem.
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Thanks for all the advice. Our troublesome neighbour is still proving to be a problem and is refusing to pay his share. However he has put his duplex apartment up for sale and is asking £68k for it fully furnished which is a bit of a bargain as he paid £70k for it in 2008 unfurnished. If you or anyone you know is interested then email me via my profile for the web address.
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This link does not work but if you drop the full stop after .com it will work :)
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Perhaps I should point out that the exterior photographs were taken some time ago and bedroom in the roof now has an large private balcony. The garden is now much more mature with trees, flowering shrubs and a couple of banana palms. There were two large bunches of bananas on one of them when I was there last week, that was until our neighbour helped himself to one of them!
Someone buy it please!
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Ooops - I've just realised that I've probably broken several rules by placing this free advert for a property here . Sorry Keith - totally unintentional I can assure you, I've removed the link.
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can someone tell me if it costs the people who take the non payer to court ? i.e. is there any legal or court costs to pay or does the non payer have to pay all the costs ? thanks
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will the buyers be landed with any unpaid fees
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We also have a place on same complex as Liz, Lynne and Bev. Legal route is the only way to go, and, done right all costs would be paid by defaulter. Also buyer should not pick up costs as through this route the seller would have to clear ghier debts before they sell .
Liz/lynne, tell me if I am speaking rubbish...
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we are on a complex of 14 and 8 are owned by english people and 6 are owned by a turkish man ( 5 of which are unoccupied waiting to be sold ). The turkish man doesnt want to pay for 6 , he said he would pay for 3 , and now when the maintenance and utillity bills have arrived for the end of season , he is refusing to pay . The other owners are concerned that it may be cheaper to pay his bills rather than get a lawyer to start the legal proceedings . could this be the case ? has anyone been through this before ? we have had this trouble with the same person for the last 5 years. thanks
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The main thing is to have a Site Committee. Once your "Decision Book" is notarised and legal, you are then a "legal complex" and outstanding debts are then placed onto the property which are deducted from the sale price if they sell. With regard to charges for legal costs, say for example, you send a solicitors letter and they ignore it followed by another threatening court and they ignore it, and then a court summons, if they then pay up the day before court, you are stuck with the legal costs to date. HOWEVER, get yourself a management plan stating the costs will be borne by a defaulter, and no letters will be sent just an immediate court visit, they are then liable and it can be proven to the court their liability. Our solicitor devised the management plan which has been agreed and signed at our annual meeting.
Our journey into the world of Turkish sites has been amazing. What started as us Brits paying the whole lot with our fellow Turks laughing at us, has now moved totally forward to the vast majority of our Turkish friends wanting the same as we want and being against the non payers.......
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Well done Lynne.Inspiration. :)
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we have set up a management team by using a lawyer and have been the notary , we also have a book with all the expenditures in , and this man tries to find fault with everything we do and then just says hes not paying . we are sick and fed up with it , sorry to moan but why cant everyone just pay their share .
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Patch, I could truly have wept during the last five years but you are doing the right thing. Go back to your lawyer - see what they advise. We have had to put a higher rate into the kitty in order to be able to do all this legal stuff. Is your committee legal? Do you have meetings? Did he attend? Did he agree all the decisions made? Have you got a Management plan? Take him to Court - if it is only one person, it is well worth it. Get the debt stuck on his apartment - when and if they sell and a search is done, it comes up on the deeds.....
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thanks for the reply . what if he isnt bothered about selling the ones he owns ? he has just left them for the last 5 years and seems not to be bothered if they sell as hes asking over the odds for them . He is a buisness man who spends most of his time in Istanbul and has plenty of money , we struggle to get hold of him and he doesnt reply to e-mails .
We are going to end up paying for his bills and we wont get the money back if he doesnt sell any of his villas .
We have a meeting every year and he was at the last one where he said he would pay , then paid the first instalment and no w wont pay anymore , saying thr e books arent in order , but wont say exactly whats wrong with them.
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See a lawyer. You must - he will pay - take him to court. Three court visits and the nice judge may well take his keys off him and auction off his apartment. He is bluffing you with saying the books aren't in order. The non payers will use every excuse going.....